Alternative Careers in Architecture with Karina Armanda

0064 - Alternative Careers in Architecture with Karina Armanda
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Stephen Drew: [00:00:00] This is how we do it. I just unmuted myself. They don't know this. I'm talking during the countdown, 18 seconds, 17 seconds, 15 seconds. This is how we roll it. Karina and Stephen doing it live. How are we feeling? They're gonna pump up the room. Oh, Madcon! Hello, MADCON.

Speaker: Hello.

Stephen Drew: Here we are. So, hello, MADCON. I am Stephen Drew from the Architecture Social, and I'm here with, oh, this way, because it's virtual, Karina.

Speaker: Yeah, yeah.

Stephen Drew: Karina, Amanda. Hello,

Speaker: hello. Hey,

Stephen Drew: brilliant. So, we're here, we're live. So, we're live as part of the MADCON, and Our talk today, Corinna, is actually about alternative careers in [00:01:00] architecture. One of my special guests is actually Red Dead Redemption in the background, and what I was going to say just before we get in, if anyone thinks why our rooms look different, Corinna is actually in a hotel right now, aren't you Corinna?

Speaker: I am.

Stephen Drew: Well, people have got to travel, and so I'm actually renovating my main office, so All my house is in my living room right now. So I'm in my living room, but hey, the show, the show goes on and here today, we are going to talk about now alternative careers in architecture. So it was an interesting topic and what I'd like to say before jumping into it, maybe what I'll do is I'll explain a little bit about me, Karina, and then we'll talk about, uh, yourself.

So I used to architecture. Well, I did study. I got my part one. I'm part two and I worked in industry for many years and I worked in an architectural practice called EPR Architects and it didn't feel like the [00:02:00] right kind of fit for me although I enjoyed architecture a lot and so what I did is I actually looked for Alternative careers in architecture.

And one of my friends at the time said, Stephen, you love talking that you, you just, you are the cheeky guy in the office. Have you thought about doing recruitment? And I was like, God, you know, I don't know about that. It's sales, all this stuff. And do you know what? I, in the end, I went for it and I've done it many, many years in recruitment.

And so what that does, that involves is working with architectural practices to find people. And most recently, I'm even mixing up the recruitment and I've set up as, as you said, Karina, the Architecture Social. So go on, Sana, you can bring that up here as well. So you can showcase the Architectural Social, there you go.

The Architectural Social is a community for architects to get involved, showcase their, your work, and it's a place where you can go and have a chat, and we're [00:03:00] actually, all the event lists in the MADCON are there as well. So that's kind of what I'm up to at the moment. The beautiful thing about the community is, that there are people like yourself in there, Karina, as well, and we've got to get your artwork and illustration up.

But it's all about community and it's all about people in architecture and people in alternative careers and also people within the architectural community. So that's really me. I'm more than happy to go into that in more detail, but for anyone, Karina, that has not met you, Yeah, they haven't met you or they haven't found what you're up to.

Do you want to tell us about yourself?

Speaker 3: Yes, sure. Hello. So, um, yeah. Thank you, Sana. Thank you, uh, McCombs for having us. And, uh, yeah, I started similarly, so I did my part one, uh, in the UK and part two as well, and I worked, actually I started working in [00:04:00] the practice since year one, uh, part time, and I think the reason why after graduations, I felt that, oh, that's something.

But I want to, I want to do something else where I want to kind of, uh, skip the, the traditional path of, you know, uh, finding a job and then eventually, uh, getting a qualification is probably because I worked, uh, too long before, before graduation. So I felt, yeah, I kind of felt that every practice where I worked, I felt, yeah, as you said, uh, the not, not right place for me.

Yeah, and then I was changing the practices. Every time I was thinking, okay, I will apply somewhere else. Perhaps it's just like, it's a wrong architectural practice. I will find another one. And then I was like, and then I find another one. And then last practice where I worked, uh, I actually started organizing yoga classes.

That's [00:05:00] how bored I was. I was just like, yeah, I was like, Oh,

Stephen Drew: I need, I need a bit of yoga now, Karina. It's saying we're not closer, isn't it?

Speaker 3: Yeah. So that's the thing. And what else can I say? Well, I, um, I say that I'm freelancing. And, uh, even though it looks that I changed career completely and I'm doing illustration now, it's not exactly the right, uh, way to explain what I'm doing.

I'm still pursuing architectural career, but I just took an alternative view to how to follow that career. And I think we can, yeah, same, we can discuss it like in more details and perhaps, you know, See what are the questions and explain and obviously if you pursue this kind of Uh, different path when you don't go to practice and you don't get qualification and perhaps later on you get all that [00:06:00] experience and you set up your own practice and you start to practice as an architect.

Now, like freshly graduated, you can't straight away do that. So that's why you need to find all those different ways to get your income, you know, to, to, to, to get, um, Uh, the kind of the cushion to keep going with your dream and with perhaps architectural career. Uh, so yeah, that's me. I don't know, it was longer than I planned.

I love

Stephen Drew: it. Well, I thought it was a fantastic intro and I want to, I want to talk about one or two points you brought there. While we're here Osama, let's bring up Karina's artwork so that when people can visualize the beautiful stuff that Karina does and you can add her own on in, um, And Instagram as well.

And yeah, let's check out one or two. Oh man. Oh, do you know what? We're going to talk about it later, Karina, but I tell you what, on the Architecture Social, I'm looking to do some t shirts, one per month. Maybe we can do a joint t shirt at some time point. Oh [00:07:00]

Speaker 3: my God, that would be amazing. Okay. That's very, yeah, that's cool.

Stephen Drew: We see, we discussed. Totally

Speaker 3: up for that.

Stephen Drew: Totally up for it. And there's no pressure. You can say after the show, Steve, Don't ask me that live. I don't know. But you know, but hey, so what I found really interesting there, and the one thing I would say is, even though I don't do quote unquote traditional architecture anymore, what I liked about what you said is, I think that Anyone that studies architecture, we have a curiosity for certain things and a way of looking at certain things, and I don't think you ever give that up.

So, while I do recruitment now, some of the ways I look at it comes from how I learnt architecture and what I did. So, for instance, I will always look at things analytically. I'm quite comfortable presenting ideas. within my job the same way I would present a crit. And I think that [00:08:00] these skills that you learn really apply to businesses, um, uh, as well.

So when you were saying that you, you still do architecture, but you do something different, effectively what you're talking about is you could almost look at your illustration as A separate but complementary business to what you're doing now. And I think that's a really healthy way to look at it. And that's what, before we go into anyone, if there anything, before we talk further, anyone that's listening and they're thinking, about doing their artwork or picking up all this stuff, whether it's a hobby or you're looking to do it.

I think that's a really smart, sensible thing to do, because I'm sure that, Karina, the illustration you do gives you a fresh and exciting, more exciting look in architecture. And because of your architecture, that helps your style in illustration. I mean, what's your advice for anyone that's [00:09:00] Maybe, uh, feeling like they need to get their creative juices going or maybe someone is within architecture and they haven't, um, been able to express themselves yet.

Have you got any advice or do you want to let anyone know how you started doing your artwork?

Speaker 3: Uh, yeah, so Um, that's, yeah, that's actually something really important what you mentioned about the skill set, which we, uh, with architectural background got. So you, for instance, feel very comfortably, uh, presenting where I took another, not, not presentation skill, that's something I still, you know, uh, have to learn, but then, um, I could be, Uh, visual presentation and, and, uh, kind of scaled it up and really improved.

And I was very passionate about it. And then eventually it, you know, became, well, I don't really feel comfortable call it a business, but perhaps, yeah, tiny, small [00:10:00] side business at the moment, or at least it's something which, yeah, which makes up my Instagram. Yeah. So, uh, absolutely like architectural background, architectural education.

It's. Uh, it's an incredible background, which open up so many doors and you don't necessarily like recently, sorry, I'm not like, I will, I remember your question about the creativity and how to,

Speaker: Okay. Okay.

Speaker 3: Well, I then just want to mention one thing. I was listening, um, and just another day to, to, to amazing podcast and there was these advice for creating for, for anyone pretty much that, you know, in all our life, we kind of like, what's the standard path we climbed this mountain, for instance, we graduate with architecture and the thing.

Oh, well, I spent how many, seven years? We're like six years or five or many years in, uh, [00:11:00] uh, at university doing this one thing. And it's like, you already climbed half of the mountain and then you see the peak. It's so close. I just keep going, but it takes courage to keep going. Calm down and take another path.

And that's what a lot of entrepreneurs do. And that's, you know, uh, I don't want to sound like cheesy or so, but, uh, uh, the mosque, you know, he just, you know, started something new and then he, he, he climbed this new mountain and then it can come down, like, don't, don't afraid to test new things. Um, so that would happen to you as well.

I mean, recruitment, that's totally, that's totally different.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, that's a really good point because I kind of, it's, you touched upon something actually quite close to my heart with that because what's interesting is I knew that something, I wanted to do something else, but it was very scary not to do, not to keep [00:12:00] doing, because I was a part two, it was very scary not to do my part three, and I remember speaking to one or two people, and lots of people were supportive, but you've got to remember, That some people don't understand it.

If you're doing something different, they don't understand. And it's not because they don't believe, they just don't understand. So, when I said I was not doing architecture anymore, a lot of people were like, are you crazy? What do you mean you're not doing it? You spent all these years. You've studied, you've paid, you've done everything.

And actually, my father was a big supporter because my father, many years ago, he used to be a toolmaker. And he used to spend ages, and back then, this was in the 80s, you could smoke indoors, so he used to smoke. He's quit now, but he won't let me say it. So he was smoking there, and he was doing this toolmaking machine, Karina, right?

And he told me he hated the job. Right? And he was like me, where I didn't hate architecture. However, what it was when I was in [00:13:00] the office, I would do anything to avoid doing the job. I would take the bins out, I would talk, I'd go to the kitchen. And my dad was the same. Having a cigarette, doing all this stuff.

And he left Toolmaking to do, uh, something Within engineering, but he dealt with people and that's a bit like me, guest father like son, with people orientated people and, um, that's what he did. And because my father felt the same, he was one of the people in particular that when I said I wanted to move away from, uh, the traditional role of an architect, he understood.

Yeah, you know, he totally got it. And so that's what I would say for anyone, first of all, if you're thinking about an alternative career, it's absolutely healthy to feel it, but I actually did work in industry for a while and then I wanted to do things a bit differently. And I think it's really important before jumping away to at least try architecture for a little while, [00:14:00] because I think then you can always refer to it and say, You loved it, or you didn't, or you couldn't talk about it, but, um, even if you feel like you, you want to kind of move away from architecture, I would encourage everyone to work in practice for a year or two, because it's really helpful experience throughout life, you know?

Speaker 3: Absolutely, yes, absolutely. I mean, as I said, like, even it sounds like graduated, like, formally, I graduated in July. Uh, 2020, so it's very, very recently, but because I had a, before I started architectural education, I had already two years of architectural technology education from Denmark, and I also had a very useful skill at that time, I, I knew Revit very well and how to do construction drawings, so obviously for me to get a part time job during my first year of architecture was very easy, you know, so I was.

Yeah, and I could, you know, kind of, [00:15:00] um, accelerate this experience of, of, uh, of working in, in practice and professional environment and make my choice or my opinion about that quicker. So, and, and also, oh yeah, sorry, do you think, shall we check, uh, the, the comments and see, maybe there are some questions.

Stephen Drew: We can do that.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Stephen Drew: We can, anyone that has any questions while we're going, go through it. Is there any in particular you want to pull out, Karina? Here we go. A contemporary architect once says an architecture student who won't only design buildings anymore. Who knows who said it? Not me! I don't know who said it, but I do like the saying.

But that's a good point because as an architect or an architectural student, Why limit yourself to buildings? It should be artwork, it can be people talking, it can be businesses, it can be, and that's one thing that [00:16:00] we're going to expand a bit further, Karina, but the way I go about, went about building the Architecture Social is the way I approach designs, and as a designer, you can design a business, you can design people's quality of life, you can design it.

Uh, your artwork, your installations, and all this stuff there, and I think that these skills go a long way. So, I mean, I think it's a really transferable one. What I'd like to say though, while we're here, So, there's probably, there's probably a few literal examples of alternative careers before we talk about ourselves a bit further.

And so, for anyone that came here and wanted a list, Okay, we can give a bit of a list, but you and your heart, whoever's there, so let me look in the camera. Oh, let me get, there you go, Karina. We'll get the horn going in your heart, the heart of home. You'll know what you want to do in life and what people find [00:17:00] this.

So you have a passion for illustration. Okay. And, and, and drawing and that shows through. And what's amazing is the reason, in my opinion, that's doing well is because you enjoy it. You do it for you and it works. And so I enjoy. Chatting with people. I enjoy seeing on the Architecture Social, um, I enjoy seeing people find helpful information.

I enjoy people's, um, having fun there. To me, that's what I really enjoy. But for anyone listening, have a think about what you are. are interested in. So I have seen a few examples, Corina, of people that do architecture and then they do, uh, they go into journalism. That's a popular one. So there's a lot of companies that do architectural, uh, marketing and agency writing.

So a few examples are, oh gosh, they'll come to me now, let me have a little look here. So there's a few, [00:18:00] there's one in particular, um, Carol Communications, that's an example, but have a Google of that. So there's, uh, so there's journalism, you've got illustration like yourself, Karina, it's amazing. So as you can see in the background here, we've got Red Dead Redemption.

So that's a game by Rockstar Video Games. And so Rockstar Video Games, they hire a lot of architects to do the design. You've got architects which move into interior design, you've got installations, you've got loads and loads of. Literal examples, but I just wanted to kind of give a feel for anyone of some things that, some other careers I've seen people move into.

I can see this. Yeah,

Speaker 3: absolutely. And, uh, ju and, uh, so, oh yeah. Um, I, I wanted to, yeah. Again, you pointed out that something Yeah. Something what also recalls to me. You have to, or if I may, I would say that it's good to [00:19:00] improve on your strengths. You know, you can't be good in everything. So just improve on your strengths.

And if you start improving in all your weaknesses, then. Perhaps, uh, your move, your career move will, will, will just take longer and perhaps you, you won't find this thing which recalls, like, which resonates with your heart. So that's very important. And obviously it's a journey. It's not that it happens in one day.

I never, actually, I was very, I remember now, I was very uncomfortable drawing. Like it's, I never thought that's. You know, I will end up with Instagram doing some illustrations and it's not that I'm illustrator. It's actually architecture. I'm modeling something, just something which comes to my mind. I don't know.

It's, it's completely, it's super random, you know? So just test, like test a lot of things, especially when the, the university time is really good. [00:20:00] So you can experiment and don't be afraid, like, don't try to be the best. Student and as far, I mean, not, not like don't try. If you want that, I was, I, I'm just saying because I was one of those and I just feel that that's the wrong way.

Like, don't, don't do this mistake, but, um, don't try to, you know, meet every criteria. Okay. You, you're, you need to submit to get an A for your essay and A for your technical and A for your final review design studio, A for everything. And then you just, you know, never, like you don't. Kind of, uh, I excellence, you can't excellence in in any of those.

Yeah. But if you really push one thing, then yeah. This push, this, this, this aha moment will happen one day. Um, there is a very good question. Um, so something about, [00:21:00] uh, hobby,

Stephen Drew: ah, so. Do you think that keeping a small side thing, hobby or idea while studying is a good move in preparation for after graduation?

I mean, if I may jump in, I think yes, but I quite like what you said there, Karina. I think that, you know, first you've got to experiment and see with what you like because Sometimes you don't even know what you like at first and you, it could be that anything while you're still doing architecture, I think is useful.

I thought that paid. So when I was studying architecture, uh, I actually did web design. I did a little bit of web design on the side. So this was before you had Squarespace and I was interested in how to build a website and the amount of websites I broke and all this stuff. Yeah. It was interesting, but through that there's problem solving, I like the design aspect, and now that's why with the Architectural [00:22:00] Social website, I designed it all myself.

And that comes from over years and years of experimentation, and it's a skill set which has saved me a lot of time because with the architecture, so architecturesocial. com website, I don't rely on web designers. I don't rely on, um, any third parties, which means that A, I have control on it. But where that's helpful is that imagine I outsourced it, and then there's a problem.

It takes a lot of time to solve that. And so that's another example of something I did. While studying architecture, which has helped me now many years. later, if that makes sense.

Speaker 3: Absolutely. Yeah. So that's, that's kind of, uh, I would add like answering the DS question that, you know, having this hobby and developing it, it's, it's not only [00:23:00] your backup plan.

It can, yeah, it can eventually become very useful. And you can't plan for anything. You can't say, Oh my God, I'm learning this scale in five years. I will, you know, implement the skill in that project. No, you just, you just do it, you know, and, uh, and that's it. And, um, I would like to add also that, uh, COVID, like this pandemic really changed a lot of things currently.

So that's why you never know what will happen and having an extra hobby, an extra skill, uh, is, is always beneficial. Um, there are other, uh, Two questions coming. So, advice for balancing organizing time when having a side hobby?

Stephen Drew: Well, do you know what? With that one, I think Sana, who runs, is one of the Madcon people, is the expert on balancing organizing time.

Um, Corina, I'm sure We will get your insights on that as well. What I would like to say though, I would drive Sona [00:24:00] insane. I know she's in the background here, right? Because I have no lists. I have no, um, anything. And with me as a person, right? I follow my gut. So when I get passionate about something, I do it.

And that's how I roll, but some people respond really well to lists organizing, so I'm a person that when I believe in it, I do it, I follow my emotions, I follow my gut, that works for me, but it also gets me in trouble sometimes because I forget things, you know, so it's only now after a year and a half of the Architecture Social, I have a calendar, which is bad, it should have had it way earlier, but That's one way.

I guess what I'm trying to say, Adam, is you've got to find what works for you. If you're an organized list person, if you're whatever works, just, just try to make sure it's private. It's a productive medium. And what I would say is that with me, the reason I don't change is because I know what I'm like, and what I've realized is that if I, when I [00:25:00] get passionate about something, then I do it a hundred percent.

So that works for me. But what about you, Karina? Are you organized? Are you like, do you have a notion set up like SANA? Or are you like

Speaker 3: me? Oh, I downloaded twice notion and I deleted it because I just, uh, I couldn't.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, yeah. Adam, you're speaking to the wrong people, aren't you?

Speaker 3: No, no, but I, I, I'm getting better to be, and here I want to jump into some philosophy.

Like. Sorry, it will be a little bit boring for next five minutes, but, uh, but, uh, stay, uh, stay here because, uh, Stephen will keep, uh, keep, uh, like sharing his experience, which is much more fun than mine, but about this planning, what I realized, uh, I mean, when you get, and I shared it several times in my stories because it's.

Something which really, which really kind of triggers me at the moment. So, um, you've been at university, then you get a job, you know, [00:26:00] before that you've been to kindergarten, wherever you've been, your entire life was structured. And if you decide to follow, like, a path when like, as what I'm doing now, which I still don't exactly understand what I'm doing, but I don't have a structure, like nobody there beside myself to structure, you know, my day, my, my months, my next year.

And that's appeared very hard, even though I was always sure that I am very organized person. Uh, so, uh, I learned that, uh, in fact, and I'm learning a lot from Sana, I mean, there is, please, you know, follow her advices, because they're great advices. And, and I learned from her, and I actually take some classes in, in time management and business management, because they, without that, perhaps, uh, I don't see, see the, if you're serious about your hobby and you kind of, it's not just a, you know, some, uh, something, you know, for your soul, but if you, if [00:27:00] you're serious, if you want to make something out of it, like eventually a small business or a side hustle, even you need to be very organized that I would, I would say.

And, um, it's not that even about your, the, the success of your idea, it's, or your. a hobby. It's more about what I found about your health. So, you know, we, coming from architectural background, we were really bad with, with just, you know, saying, oh, I can work for, you know, 16 hours, 20 hours, 24 hours, 48 hours.

And that's, that can't be forever.

Stephen Drew: Hmm.

Speaker 3: Okay. There are, wow, there are like quite a few questions.

Stephen Drew: Yeah. There was, there was, there was one popped up. Yeah. From Linus. Perfect. That's the one I thought I would love to talk about because specialisms in architecture, you could argue sometimes are alternative careers.

So I have seen many people [00:28:00] that are also studying architecture. Then they go on to be BIM Managers, BIM Coordinators, IT Managers. I've also seen people study Interior Design or Architecture and then become Office Managers, Practice Managers, have highly successful Architecture practices, so it is completely possible.

And so Linus here asks about if you've got an Architecture degree. Can you become an urban planner or designer? So, yes. And now, please investigate more of what I say. However, I have seen people who do architecture and then they do a Master's in Urban Design. I think that that can be good. And then you can become an architect who specializes in urban design.

Large scale urban design. And I have seen people who have an architecture degree and then do their master's and then work for large companies like Atkins or Eidas. And I think that can work out really well. I've also seen some architecture practices like TP Bennett, [00:29:00] like, uh, John Thompson Partners, JTP, who hire urban designers and have a master plan team.

So Allies and Morrison actually have a master planning team. Within an architecture practice. So I would encourage people to look at specialisms. And again, so we talked about, I moved away from architecture into recruitment. And even though I recruit for architects, you can still do design. And what I would say is, again, like everything we talked about, so, I mean, I've seen, you know, architectural visualization is a specialism I see people move into if they enjoy freely modeling and, and actually I know people that, have a business out of illustration.

So where I used to work as an architect, we used to outsource sometimes those beautiful hand drawings to a specialist who would do it on a commission basis. A bit like what you do, Karina, but to someone that is does it for architectural practices as well. [00:30:00] So what I'm trying to say is you can definitely specialize and move on from traditional architecture into specialisms you can then do interior design and also you can also be known for doing particular types of architectures so you can specialize in designing data centers you can specialize in designing Education, Schools, and so forth.

So, short answer. So, that was a long answer. Linus, yes, you can. Again, though, like everything we talk about, you've got to have the passion for it and you've got to be really, you've got to think about why you're doing it. There's no point in just getting a specialism for a specialism. You need to be passionate about it.

So, if you are the person that loves BIM and you enjoy helping the practice and making things more efficient, then do that. If you enjoy Uh, people, aspects and HR within architectural practice, then do that. If you enjoy illustration, then do that. And [00:31:00] I think that is the general theme of all of this. And then do your research.

But normally, if you're passionate about it, you will do what is needed to get there and do the hard work. Because like in everything in life, and like what Karina was saying a bit, there is an element of, yes, you've got to have a bit of raw skill there. But you can develop that but you need to put the time in.

So, over time people can develop their drawing, over time people can develop their, uh, communication skills. When I was doing live streams for the first time last year, I was very nervous doing it. Now I'm quite comfortable doing it because I do it all the time. And that's the point with this is that you can develop, um, your skills if you enjoy it.

And now I enjoy it. What's your thoughts, Karina? Do you agree with what I said?

Speaker 3: Absolutely. And you're much more knowledgeable in that sense. [00:32:00] So, uh, yeah. Um, I would, yeah, so Camilla is asking about, uh, the platform, uh, to build a brand and business and, uh, I, like, she's asking Instagram. This

Speaker: is interesting.

Speaker 3: Yeah, uh, I mean, I, I'm totally Instagram and then Stephen, you're, you're both YouTube as well.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I do. I do. I do. They're all different. And so I really think Instagram lens, it's each one has different pros and cons. And I work with all of this and I'd love your thoughts on this Karina, is I think that you have to remember what.

The tool is for social media. It's great at getting yourself out there, but I feel some are better at conversations than others. So one of the reasons that I set up the ArchitectureSocial. com. Oh, actually sound [00:33:00] like, can we get it up? Can I can show people inside? The Architecture Social. Let's see if Sanna's gone to the toilet or she's still here or there.

Sanna? Sanna? No, she's on her phone. Don't worry, we'll go live anyways. So if you log into the, go to the architecturesocial. com and you log in. So it's an area, a little bit more like a community forum. And what I like there is that people can talk, they can message each other. They can share and showcase work, whereas I think with Instagram, it's amazing at seeing your artwork.

It's amazing at seeing other stuff, but there's pros and cons with everything else. So for me, there's not much of a community aspect for the Architectural Social on Instagram, but what it's amazing at is that I use it to show The architecture students and architects work within the architecture social to the world and it's amazing.

It's so cool and that's why I think Instagram is good. YouTube is [00:34:00] good for doing explanation videos for me. So when I talk about doing CVs or what you should do in the CV and portfolio, it can be useful. Um, Facebook, I'm less interested in. I think it's a Evil. Even though, but, but I say that, even though, but they own Instagram, so they're all, so they're all kind of evil.

I think Facebook is just so Oh, there's so many advertisements, it can be so distracting. I personally do not like Facebook, but, so they all have different means here, and they all have different uses. What do you think, Karina, because Instagram's been great for you, hasn't it?

Speaker 3: Uh, yes. I feel like I just can't handle several social media.

Recently I started TikTok, which was, I just feel I'm a little bit so old for that . It's so much

Stephen Drew: work as well, isn't it? For 15 seconds? Yeah.

Speaker 3: Yeah. It, it's actually is, I spent half of the day on [00:35:00] one of the videos that was insane, and then I'm wondering where my time management is going and so, so, um, regarding the, I mean, choose, yeah.

Absolutely. I mean, there is not much I can add, um, regarding the platform, uh, choose whatever you want to do. Either you want to share something, share your knowledge, you know, like tutorials or whatever. So then probably it's YouTube. YouTube may take a little bit more effort to run. So, you know, to, to do editing, to do record.

Yeah. When Instagram, I feel that especially if you're an architecture student. If you are a business student or architectural graduate or somebody who want to share their visual work, it's a great tool because one, you have your portfolio in your feed, and second, you can tell your stories in stories, so you can, you can share some other type of [00:36:00] information in your stories.

What I'm doing is I'm sharing a lot of freelance and my journey in those short, uh, 15 second, um, Uh, Stories. I think I said stories seven times in the last 10 seconds, but you got, you got the point. Perhaps, yeah, perhaps Instagram is easier to start and especially what I would say, um, If you're architecture, uh, in architecture field, that's something which is not that much exploded.

So, to start with your business now is much easier if you're a blogger or a beauty blogger or some other fields. It's just like, or traveler. I mean, now we can't talk about travels, but those, like, the, uh, competition there is massive. In architecture, it's much easier to start. So it's a good, good one, uh, to, to do now.

And you know, the businesses, everything like, uh, the Infor, what's this called? [00:37:00] Information Age is, is just developing and it's accelerating with Covid. So it's the best time to start now developing your platform. Uh, please, like, I, if you, if you have a, if you, like, if you're up to that, I highly encourage everyone who watched this just, you know, start doing that now.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I think as well, I, what was interesting there is that you experimented with TikTok. I'm always experimenting as well. The point is, though, the platform is, uh, or a social media platform is a tool. And you need the artwork, or you need the content, or you need some kind of purpose to get numbers. If you're just chasing numbers, it doesn't work.

I think that people are attracted to Um, genuine passion. So if you're, for instance, you start doing illustration, and then you put it on Instagram, and [00:38:00] then you put it on Facebook, you'll find quite quickly what works. And I think that's the general advice I would give, is that you have to do that. And the other thing that I would do as well is, You have to, um, it's a bit like networking in real life, which is really important, okay?

And when I say networking, now some people can think of it like a cringy term, like everyone with business cards in a room, but I'm not on about that. I'm on about you need to get involved in the community, you need to get involved and talk to people, you need to get involved and do stuff like this. So for instance, Karina.

We had never met before, but now we've met after this. And I'm sure that like we joked at the start, but I'm also kind of serious about the t shirt or artwork and it's all these things. Come on,

Speaker 3: I already was my right hand here in the background, you know, in the process of presenting. Yeah,

Stephen Drew: I need a bit of help with it.

And the thing is, though, all this stuff comes from doing things and being [00:39:00] out there and talking, and that's real, Real, real big thing. And on that, and what I'm going to say, Corina, is because on the Architecture Social, and so Sarna, I think you're back now, aren't you? So can we work, can we whirl up the website?

Oh, she gone again. Let's test. So Sarna, Sarna, Sarna, oh, where's my She's gone. She was there, but she's gone. So, go on then. Doesn't matter.

Speaker 3: I don't think this She's

Stephen Drew: gone. I bet you her internet's gone

Speaker 3: somewhere.

Stephen Drew: Yay! There she is. Amazing. Log in, Sanna, log in. Right, because what I want to talk about here is that anyone here Okay, you're thinking of doing some.

The important bit is showcasing it and sharing it. So you can see here, you've got, oh, there you go, Sarna, you were there. You log back in. Log back in. Log back in. Yeah. You can showcase your work. Thank you for that. But what I want people to do is start saying who they [00:40:00] are and showcasing the stuff or talking about their passion because we need to get people talking.

So Sarna, you got all that. Go to the topics area. My lovely assistant. My lovely assistant. So it's here, right? Look at all these topics. You can log in. You can talk about artwork. You can talk about illustration. You go, let's go into the artwork section. Karina, we need to get your artwork in there. Let's go.

Let's have a little look, right? People interested, people sharing stuff, people sharing sketches. So we've got Gaia there, all this stuff, right, maybe stop there Sana before the, the, the naked, um, uh, free, you know, freeform artwork comes up. I don't want you to get censored. But this is like, what I'm trying to do is get people to start talking about their passions.

And you can be on Instagram, or you can be on the social. You can be wherever you want, but the point is the only way this works is that getting out there and talking with each other and showcasing your passions. And so this is, I'm biased because I run it, but what I'm [00:41:00] saying here is that I love people to use the platform for what they want.

I'm getting more and more architectural practices involved in there. We've got architectural practices like EPR Architects. We've got Akroyd You have WATG, you have Squires and Partners there, you have, you have architects, you have employers who will hire you. But as well as that, Karina, are you in there?

I'll send you an invite if you're not.

Speaker: I am.

Stephen Drew: I am. We've got to get you up. Yeah, you're already there. And the point is, so Sanna, you can turn that off now. You've been an absolute star. Thank you. The point is, go there, go other places and start talking. Because I think that that's where ideas come from.

That's where cross collaboration comes from. And it's a bit like, Architectural competitions. You remember where everyone does architectural competitions? Two, three, four people, they get involved together, you learn about each other, and that's [00:42:00] where all ideas come from. So, um, alternative careers, you might not even know of something, but then someone comes to you for it.

I mean, I've been offered in the past opportunities because I've of what I do and getting involved. And so, for instance, the Architecture Social, yeah, it hosts the MADCON in essence, but I mean, Santa's there and I'm getting involved, really, it's Santa's thing, but I'm quite happy to get along and get stuck in.

And that's because of, um, doing things a little bit that I wouldn't normally do. If I just did Architecture, that's fine. Um, but being out there and doing all this stuff and having an Instagram or us talking and we, you know, we had a chat before and all this stuff, that's what gets you, um, interesting opportunities in life and can, and will make your career go in weird and wonderful ways.

That you never would predict, you

Speaker 3: know, I can't agree [00:43:00] more. I mean, that's, that's like, wow, that's something which really, again, resonates with my heart. But what you said now, that's really true. That's how the world works. And you know, like, when you say, you know, See, whoever is your role model, these are just people, just people as you and me and everyone like around.

So like your fears, that's some, I, I, I'm afraid to talk. That's my fear. I am. I'm afraid to sound too cheesy, but those fears, they stop you from, you know, trying something just like forget about those fears and try go out there. Like, I try, like, see what was the. Story before, like the story before success story, because there are a lot of failures and those failures are amazing.

It's what, what will happen? What, like the worst thing can happen if you try and it doesn't work. And to be honest, nobody, like if, if to, to what I [00:44:00] always say to myself, nobody cares, like everyone cares about themselves. So nobody cares. Don't think what other people think. That's really true. So.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I agree with that.

And I love, and also I love the point you mentioned because actually if you go back to the Architecture Social, someone who was there at the start, it's not what it looks like now. And hopefully in a year's time, it will evolve even further. If you go to the start on my YouTube channel, you will see content from a year ago.

And yes, there's still value there, but the production value is a bit low. It's all a bit, um, uh, you know, like stuff I do now. I look back and I almost laugh be and, and, but I like it because it's honest. And the point is you evolve over time and every now and then, the other thing is, I, I'm like anyone else.

I still get sometimes imposter syndrome. You know, when you wake up and you go like, oh my gosh, do I know what I'm doing? Uh, what am I, am I a fraudster? Everyone [00:45:00] feels like that's now and then, and I don't think ever. Don't, I, what I love about what you said Karina is, even if it's not perfect right now, don't let that stop you.

I'm sure the best guitarists at some point, like, they, they were rubbish at some point, yeah? Everyone has to learn, and everything evolves over time, and I'm sure it's the same with, Artwork of style. Um, it won't come straight away. It's an ongoing thing. And what I love about what you said, Karina, is because sometimes I look back and on YouTube, some of the thumbnails I use are awful.

And now I wouldn't do it, but why bother fixing what I did before? It should be about just improving.

The other bit that you said which I like is, um, it doesn't need to be perfect and what I find is that actually by You Not scripting things. I'm a huge [00:46:00] believer in, and you've seen this, Corinne, and the way I prepare is that I just go for it, freestyle, because I think that there's a genuineness that comes from that, because think about it, whenever we were in studios, I'm sure that you saw some quick presentations where people read from notes and scripts, and it's good to have notes, but you can't Get bound to them because the conversation flows.

No, but that's helpful because it informs what you're talking about and you know what you, you want to mention. But what's good about this conversation is we're letting it go. And I tell you what's really interesting. The best podcast episodes I do or stuff is when the conversation goes wild. And I did a podcast the other day with a fantastic guest.

Who had a script and the problem was I kind of felt like the conversation was very difficult because we couldn't quite progress and, and so for anyone here, I, what I was going to say is, [00:47:00] the point is, If you start putting stuff out and you're honest, or you're open, or you're up for feedback, you're going to get, you're going to learn more.

You're going to probably get more positive encouragement than you think, but you've got to be out there and you've got to ask questions and you've got to beat the drum. So on LinkedIn, I'm always posting stuff. I always try to post stuff. I haven't posted one or two things for two days, Corina, and I feel behind because I always.

Try to put stuff out with value, um, and learn from it. And some days it works, some days it doesn't. And I think that that is the, the way you learn and the way you evolve. And that's the way opportunities and alternative careers and stuff pop up, basically.

Speaker 3: Um, I would like to, uh, add to the, you said like unscripted and that's really something which we can connect to this alternative [00:48:00] career because it's, it's what we did is unscripted, you know, unscripted path.

So don't be afraid, like you, I was like that A student. I was planning my career, career, like five years ahead and that's good stuff.

And now covid is a great example when things can come completely not according to the plan. My actual plan was to get a job back in and I had a secured job. And when I got And they were waiting for me, like after graduation, and then I got email, oh no, sorry, at the moment, like, the things are getting crazy, and my brain started working in extreme situation very quickly, and I was like, because I planned to pursue something else, it just accelerated this process.

Momentum of changing. So, uh, what else? I really like, we have just 10 minutes and I just like, It's gone quick, isn't [00:49:00] it? I can't believe it. Yeah, it's very quick and we have some more questions, but what I want to add here as well about education, like, don't think that you necessarily need that type of qualification in order to pursue your dream.

Okay, I get this experience and then after these years in practice, and this part three, part three is probably just people who are from the UK or who had their education, uh, did their education in the UK can can understand. It's basically the Uh, getting, uh, qualified as an architect. It's not master's.

It's something you do in most countries after master's. So, uh, that's not necessarily how you need to do things. Those systems created by people hundred years ago, what was before those hundred years, you know, The things were completely different, so don't be afraid to just say, No, I'm not following that.

I will do things differently. [00:50:00] And you will get much more experience from actually, like, learning yourself. Like, now business. Okay, how do I get this income? I don't have a secure job, but I need to eat something and pay my rent. I need to figure out the things. You know, in these extreme situations, you just find, uh, find solutions.

And also, uh, as you say, go out there, talk, talk about, like, that's how you find, uh, collaborations, that's how you will find a job, that's how you will find a lot of unexpected great things. Um, so shall we quickly jump and see what other

Stephen Drew: One or two questions. Yeah. Yeah. While you look for it, there we go. Oh, here we go.

What would you recommend to someone who due to the outside circumstance does not get the grade they want, but are skilled and succeed in architecture, overcome the overgrade, hang them? Okay. I've got the perfect example of this. So I've got a [00:51:00] friend. Uh, well, I, I still am quite friendly with him. However, I studied with him and I worked with someone in architecture who had got a third, a third, you know, architectural for part one.

And I had a 2 1, and so in theory, I'm higher, right? Not that it matters one way, but the point was, he got a third. And the guy was good, right? The guy was really good. And then the point is, he went on to do his Part 2, and he won an award. He was first, he won his award, he did his video, he was all over Dezeen many years ago.

It was an office with flowers, and now he works in Richard Rogers. And the point was, is that he had a third, he didn't let it go. upset him, he learned from it and went, Oh, do you know what? I didn't do things right. Or maybe the, the, the studio was in, wasn't for me. And then in his part two, he nailed it and he did what he loved, which was videos.

And he did this amazing, [00:52:00] um, CGI, which was everywhere and it really pulled him up. And I'm a big believer in life and comebacks. I mean, I used to run a recruitment business, which I. I folded. I mean, I had it for two years. Me and my partner, business partners, went our separate ways. And I remember at the time, I mean, that quote unquote, in the first year, it was very successful, very profitable.

And the second year was less profitable. And then it split up. And on theory, that's a failure. But I learned so much lessons from it. I, you, you kind of quickly pick yourself up from it and because of that and a few other things, now I am where I am and hopefully it can keep on going. So everyone can bounce back.

You're going to make mistakes in life. You're going to get knock bucks and you're going to come from it. But the people that I really take inspiration from are people who pick themselves out of um, a bad [00:53:00] situation or dust off the grades. So. It's obviously, it's good to have support, but you know, you can do it and you shouldn't let it affect you.

You can always bounce back. What do you think, Karina?

Speaker 3: Yeah, Daniela, I mean, I understand you completely. I remember when I finished my part one, I got C for my design project and I was crying. And I already had jobs. Secured in a big company. And then I, oh, and then later on, I got two offers from one of the, my role model, uh, companies, Sofujimoto in Japan.

And then I worked eventually in Vietnam for Vocho Nia, which been my, uh, role model since year one and their bamboo architecture and sustainable architecture. So I mean, nobody ever will ask for your grade. Ever. I, and don't, yeah, don't let those, um, and, but I understand at the same time, because I [00:54:00] experienced that.

I, I, I worked so, you work so hard as a student, we all work in architecture, we're crazy passionate about what we're doing, and then we get graded. That's, that's something, you know, but don't, yeah, like you can be a little bit like surprised, I would say, oh, but those who grade you are also people, they just like, like a little bit.

More, I don't know, older than you, you can say, or experienced a little bit, but also people. So, yeah, don't be upset. Don't be upset. Don't, don't really take it as a, Oh my God, if I got this grade, what can I do now? Like, forget about it. As you showed like this, like, do like that and keep going. Yeah,

Stephen Drew: yeah. And I think, because I'm conscious we've got five minutes left, but the last thing that I would like to touch on, because I thought that was a great point, is so everyone, if you're watching, you're here because you're interested, you're here because [00:55:00] you feel like maybe you want to explore.

And so everyone, in my opinion, has the potential to do this. And don't worry about what you did yesterday. Think about today. So hold yourself accountable. Do you want to, in one year, be saying the same thing? Like, oh, I should really do my artwork. Or like me with guitars, right? I've had a guitar for years.

I really should do that. Be the person that instead of that, today, thinks I'm going to do a little bit of my passion. I'm going to do artwork. I'm going to do research. Or I'm going to join TheArchitectureSocial. com and I'm going to post my artwork. But doing stuff, I really applaud it, and you don't need to be perfect, but you have to be someone that today is prepared to change, or prepared to do a little bit.

And I think You don't need to be the expert in anything, but you do need to hold yourself [00:56:00] accountable and say, am I going to be the person that next year looks at this year and goes, I didn't do anything? Or am I going to be the person that in one year time goes, I started? It's like anything. It's like weight loss.

It's like, it's like going to the gym. It's like health. It's like, it's okay. We all make mistakes, you know, lockdown hasn't been perfect for me either, but we have to just start doing changes and taking on board, um, your passion. So use your passion. Start today. If you're watching this video, and then you go, and click onto the PewDiePie after, or you just binge, then in one year's time, you'll be at the same place.

Okay? Or, do you want to be a move on shaker and be on the next MadCon? I'll leave it with that. Karina, over to you. What's your final thoughts?

Speaker 3: Oh my God. [00:57:00] That's so much pressure. I, uh,

Stephen Drew: I

Speaker 3: mean, you said it so beautifully. Let me check my notes. I had so much, uh, so much to say, but yeah. Uh, as I said, everything is made, you know, by people.

If, if there are systems that doesn't mean you have to follow those systems. And also like what happened to me recently, a lot of my, um, people who are close to me, no, how do I say it? Relative? Yeah. My relatives say, or, or friends of relatives or whoever, they wondering what am I doing because I am not. I'm not working in a big corporation means, Oh my God, like, is she, is she unemployed?

What is she doing? So like, no, but nobody asked me what I was doing for last five years when I was at university. And to be honest, like most of the time I was, I don't know, I was so busy. You [00:58:00] know, on Pinterest. So, and that was okay. Not like I'm exaggerating, obviously, but if you are following something, which everyone is familiar off, then you're kind of, okay.

If you suddenly like, don't let it scare you. If people around you think that it's, you know, something wrong or incorrect or not according to, to, to what it should, to some standards, because everything is created, essentially. Um, so yeah, don't be afraid. Make your Instagram or YouTube tomorrow or today. And as you said Today, yeah.

Speaker: Yeah,

Speaker 3: today, now. Yeah. And also, I think, uh, you, you will, you will agree with me, like, uh, send us a message. We're always happy to, you know, to chat with you. And, uh, uh, I'm, uh, I'm replying all my, all my DMs on Instagram. I just spent half of my life on those. So, uh, thank you. And, [00:59:00] uh, yeah, super, super nice. Thank you.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I really enjoyed the chat. That's amazing and thank you as well. And yet we've got the links below. Thank you, Sarna. You can follow Corina on Instagram and me as well. And yet, so check out Corina's artwork. And let's see. Let's see. In the spirit of this conversation, Karina, we'll try and get something going between us as well.

Should we call it?

Speaker 3: Absolutely.

Stephen Drew: Yeah. I quite like it. Maybe. I'll show you. So I've got, I've, I've worked out, so I've done my own t shirts and I'll, I'll do, I'll show you them later. I've got one that's printed, which you're going to really love because it's actually, um, It's an artwork by Joseph, uh, Wallace.

And it's amazing. It's the, it's the Architecture Social. It's

Speaker 3: beautiful. We'll

Stephen Drew: get that up as well. Thank you everyone in the crowd. Um, I haven't got my sounds here today. I haven't got that, but I've got the bell. Oh, it doesn't work. It's not the table. [01:00:00] Thank you everyone. This has been good fun. I hope it's helpful.

Karina, your artwork is awesome. And two seconds left. We'll see you guys online. Bye bye.

Speaker 3: Bye bye.