Architecture, Filmmaking, and Connection: Alvin Zhu's Inspirational Path

0014 - Alvin Zhu, Projects by People
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[00:00:00]

Introduction and Guest Introduction
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Stephen Drew: Hi everyone. I am Stephen Drew from the Architecture Social and I am back with the podcast. We're in for a real treat. Nice little treat going into the next week.

Alvin's Background and Projects by People
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Stephen Drew: I am joined here by Alvin and Alvin is from Projects by People. Projects by People is something that you set up Alvin. And the first time I saw it was on.

Stephen Drew: Instagram, but hey, how are you? You well? Yeah I'm good, thank you. I'm very good. Stephen's

Alvin Zhu: Good to be here.

Stephen Drew: So you're literally around the globe, right? So you're in, what part of Australia are you living in right now? So I'm from Brisbane, Australia if you know where that is. Brisbane! Oh, alright, okay.

Stephen Drew: I've never been to Australia. Oh really? Never, I've never been, I've never been. So we're going for it. I'm going off kill. We should, this should be an architecture podcast. Why am I talking about [00:01:00] geography? All right. Awesome. So you studied in Queensland. So I'm going to bring it back in as, so we're going to, I'm going to put down the globe and we'll talk about how we first met.

Stephen Drew: So I found, so when I was setting up the architecture social, I was looking around online and that is the power of. Online because you, different blogs, different people from all the different parts of the world and projects by people caught my eye because it's a really interesting I guess you can call it, what, concept or really interesting showcase of people's work.

Stephen Drew: And I think it does a lot of really great work. Goods and interesting things and it shows me a lot of interesting people's work. It's actually one of the inspirations for how I go about my Instagram page. But do you want to, for anyone listening, Alvin, do you want to explain a little bit about what Projects by People is about?

Alvin Zhu: Yeah, definitely.

The Inspiration Behind Projects by People
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Alvin Zhu: So I might just tell, I might just add some context and give you a bit of the story behind why I started it.

Stephen Drew: Please, because I've just banged on about Brisbane, [00:02:00] so I need to bring it back. I need to get this back on track before I get pulled

Alvin Zhu: off there. Yeah, but if at any point you feel like I'm rambling, just, let me know.

Stephen Drew: No, you're quite concise. It's me that's rambling. Go ahead.

Alvin Zhu: Okay. So after my, after I graduated Bachelors in 2018. No, I was in a really weird place. I felt like I hadn't actually achieved very much in the three years. And I spent a lot of time reflecting on, what I'd actually gotten out of the degree and it kept coming back to the same thing.

Alvin Zhu: Um, I felt like,

Alvin Zhu: Calm. It's

Stephen Drew: okay. We're all friends here. Yeah. Me, you, and the virtual listeners out there, right?

Alvin Zhu: Yeah.

Challenges and Reflections on Architecture
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Alvin Zhu: I came out of architecture school not wanting to practice architecture at all. Okay. And, it was a really tough time, but despite all of the, rough patches, there was one thing that really stood out from my experience at architecture school, and that was the chance that I got to go on exchange to Milan in my second [00:03:00] year.

Alvin Zhu: Okay. And, I was, I'm really grateful that I got that opportunity to meet people from different parts of the world. And, It really helped me grow as a person. When I realized that I was one of the very lucky few that actually got to go on an exchange program, I started to think about, the fact that I was one out of ten people in my cohort that actually got to go.

Alvin Zhu: And a lot of people talked about wanting to go, but for whatever reason, there was always, something stopping them, whether it was financial problems or family issues or maybe just limited spots, which I think is a real shame because I think everyone deserves that opportunity. I think it's something really special.

Alvin Zhu: And even though it's probably impossible to replicate the experience of traveling, I think that experience of meeting people is something that is definitely possible. It's something that you can do through social media, [00:04:00] and, it gives you the chance to meet people from outside of your studio, outside of your, university outside of your country.

Alvin Zhu: And the vision for projects by people was to create a global community, which would become like an online studio. And, it takes all the good parts of studio culture. And, this is funny because, a lot of studios now are online. But, I figured, why not try and build a community that actually focuses on the people behind the projects?

Alvin Zhu: Because, there's so many pages out there that really focus on projects, and I wanted to shift that. The focus back to the people their hobbies, their interests, and hopefully through a mutual interest or maybe conversation starters, people could connect. And these people might have never met otherwise.

Alvin Zhu: So yeah, that was, that's it.

Stephen Drew: I love it. And we touched upon it briefly before this, and [00:05:00] when I talked about it's, yes, it's, it is interesting to hear Thomas Hedwig talk about his projects. They're amazing projects. I just think there's a lot of people that in my job I've spoken to, for instance, people that work alongside someone like Thomas that helps.

Stephen Drew: Projects get realized and in the architecture community you do speak to a lot of students and there were a lot of fantastic works and actually finding someone even at the beginning and the middle and the end of their career is very interesting. But you talked about a few things there which resonate with me.

Stephen Drew: So the first thing is you talked about not wanting to do architecture, which is really interesting and because I studied architecture and now I do recruitment as well as the architecture social, that's more of a passion point which kind of weaves into my professional work, but and it comes from architecture because I love architecture.

Stephen Drew: When I came out of architecture school, I worked at an amazing architectural practice, and over a few years, [00:06:00] it was a strange feeling I felt, where I was like I don't want to continue being an architect, I like architecture. And I remember at the time feeling like that was wrong, and I almost felt slightly embarrassed to mention it to people, because It was a strange thing because I was building up to be registered an architect.

Stephen Drew: So I did the degree and diploma in the UK, which is five years. And I did worked in two or three years in industry. And everyone was getting to that point where they're like, so when are you going to do the course to qualify? And I kept making excuses because at the time I was like, Oh I'm just going to focus on me right now and all this stuff.

Stephen Drew: But in my head, I was a little bit embarrassed because I felt like I had a problem and I couldn't work out the best way to go. And what I've learned since then, and this is the power of speaking to people like yourself and others is that this is actually more common occurrence than we all think. And actually, if people embrace that feeling, you can still have a great career in architecture.[00:07:00]

Stephen Drew: So for instance, a good example I use all the time, I've gone into recruitment. Another good example though, is journalism or media. So you get a lot of marketing companies, which is focused on architecture and coming from an architectural background is a massive help. So there's one or two in the UK, one's called ING Media.

Stephen Drew: One's Cairo Communications. I have a friend that worked with me. I was her boss in recruitment. She went from recruitment to to communications. So I wanted to flesh that out a bit because it doesn't get talked about enough. And so where you're at right now, do you still quite know the answer yet?

Stephen Drew: Or are you working out where you want to go with your architectural qualifications and what you want to do out then?

Alvin Zhu: Yeah. So I think.

Exploring New Passions: Filmmaking
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Alvin Zhu: After I guess the last year and a bit off I think I really figured it out because I gave myself time to explore different avenues and I'll just go back a bit [00:08:00] to like when I graduated architecture school, like I said, I came out not wanting to practice, but.

Alvin Zhu: The one thing that I did come out really proud of was one project and it wasn't actually an architectural project. It was a video I filmed for the end of year exhibition and that was, I think, the best project I did through university. Through that process, I interviewed a bunch of students, I was filming all day in the studio and I really fell in love with filmmaking.

Alvin Zhu: Okay. Yeah. That's where I'm at now. I've taken that and I've been volunteering for the Australian Institute of Architects. I've been filming some projects for them. For projects by people, I've been working on some film projects. I do the film side, the production side, for the Mad Collective and, I really enjoy it.

Stephen Drew: I can tell. It looks good. The Mad Collective looks good. Alongside what you said though, [00:09:00] I have a friend that I studied with, a good friend of mine is called Will McDaniel, and he went to Oxford Brookes University in the UK, and they have a, quite a high focus on letting people experiment. And they had a similar thing where they were in, Part of the studio that Will went into was video focused and so it sparked his passion for it.

Stephen Drew: So ever since I've known Will, and I'm going to get him on as a guest, he's a big YouTuber now, so I feel like we've got a celebrity on, but basically he's got like half a million subscribers now, but it comes from his weird and wonderful passion. And so his channel is WillMcD and if you look into it, he makes all these weird.

Stephen Drew: And cool, interesting concepts. He writes the scripts and he makes these models of monsters. And that was all inspired by him experimenting in architecture. And another thing I'd like, the reason I bring this up to talk about what you do as well is because I think we underestimate [00:10:00] that the course in architecture offers so many skills, right?

Stephen Drew: And I've learned that actually, I think one of the reasons why, A, I love, I've always been interested in architecture, but in terms of what the course has offered me, through studying it, I am much better at presenting, apart from the intro to this podcast, okay, all right I'm learning, but it's that ability to go out there and try things and Improve the formula.

Stephen Drew: And so part of what you're doing, Project by People, that process of design, I think, comes from you. But that's what you've learned in architecture. And I think the way I don't have a problem speaking in front of people. I used to get very nervous. Over time that's changed and I think that comes from architecture school.

Stephen Drew: It's the concept of a crit, isn't it? Where you, we all get bashed down if we haven't thought about it. And actually when you go up there with a concise idea and you fight that resistance you grow from it. [00:11:00] So there's loads of ways where the career in architecture can go. The other point that I wanted to bring up, because he talked about it earlier, which resonates with me, is you're talking about traveling.

Stephen Drew: Now, I, when I had a recruitment business, and it was quite stressful a few years ago, I mean I lead a recruitment team now, but I used to own my own business, and I remember specifically during that time, I'd make a lot of excuses not to go traveling. I'm too busy, because you mentioned people were giving excuses, I'm too busy, I've got to run a business, I've got to do all this stuff, and it was a bit of a shame when I look back, and I think the last year or two, at my work, they used to tease me Where are you flying this week, Steve?

Stephen Drew: But a year or two, I had a little epiphany moment of I'm going to be dead one day and I'd like to see the world. And to resonate what you were talking about, and I found it really enriching in as well. I came back from traveling, you meet different people, you go on adventures and you learn [00:12:00] about yourself.

Stephen Drew: Cause I remember I was going last year, I was supposed to go on holiday with a friend and right before it, he had an accident. Okay. And then I asked, and then he was like, And he's okay, so don't worry, but he didn't get on the plane. And I was like, I'm going to have to go by myself? What am I going to do?

Stephen Drew: And I had a total mini freak out, and then I went and he was fine, and I made friends. And you learn that you can do things on your own. So travel is really enriching. It's a bit of a strange time now with the virus. What's your kind of plans for the next? Have you thought about, do you want to continue traveling?

Stephen Drew: Do you want to continue the blog? Or I'm quite keen to learn what you're interested in the next step, or maybe you don't know, and that's fine too. It'd be just interesting to hear your thoughts.

Balancing Studies and Social Media
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Alvin Zhu: In terms of traveling, I guess one of the thing, one of the setbacks that I have now is money, but besides the pandemic, [00:13:00] but.

Alvin Zhu: Also I will be moving to Sydney. Next year for my master's so I've actually gone back to study my master's in architecture, which I started this week Yeah, I'm moving to Sydney. So I guess that's fine.

Stephen Drew: I think that's awesome I've never been to Sydney but it looks amazing and I think masters can be really enriching because you focus on But masters is a certain level of, yes, there's a syllabus and a project, but it really is that level of work.

Stephen Drew: It's down to what you want, right? And then where you want to take it. All so you're doing your masters. What do you think? What is it like juggling? How many, cause you've got about 5, 000 followers on Instagram. Okay. And there's also, I've learned that with all these things is to say, you probably have your own post schedule in, and there's a lot of work that goes involved in there.

Stephen Drew: You've got to edit people's files. They send you a JPEG, which is too big, too small. You find it doesn't work. Cause that's [00:14:00] been my world lately. You're like, please send me a certain size, but there's a lot of work involved in this. And how do you find juggling online? Tools with these, with studying, because did you do it before and you're going to do it again or?

Alvin Zhu: I've just started actually. We'll see if it gets worse, but for now, I have to calm

Stephen Drew: down. Yeah.

Alvin Zhu: The study plan for me is extended. Like I've, I'm in no rush to finish the degree. So I decided to make it three years instead of two, because I really do want. time to work on other things.

Alvin Zhu: Like I don't want to just drop everything I've done to focus on studying because I don't think it's worth it. I think there needs to be a balance. Whether or not I can actually hold up, I'm not sure. Cause you know, it's first week, nothing's really happened, but we'll see.

Stephen Drew: Wherever happens, it's fine.

Stephen Drew: And what is another, cause I love the fact that we can talk about [00:15:00] architecture, but at the same time, because you're a content creator, there is a little element that I find interesting with that. Cause as architects, we always want to showcase our work. We want to showcase our projects. And you, if you, even if you're a student, you, at the end of the year, you need to showcase your project to win a job or to gain attention.

Stephen Drew: And what's interesting about. Instagram is, it's a fantastic tool. It does require a bit of commitment. And and we were joking about it earlier where I can be having a dinner in the evening and whoever I'm with can be a bit frustrated that I'm on my phone sometimes, and so you have to get a bit of a balance.

Stephen Drew: Have you ever felt though, sometimes that it's almost like a second job? It's amazing what you've done, but with that. It takes up your time right? Yeah. How do you feel behind the scenes? It's rewarding, but do you as well, like me, get a bit Gosh, this can be a lot of work sometimes.

Alvin Zhu: Definitely.

Alvin Zhu: I've, throughout [00:16:00] this year Not just me. Not just me. No, not at all. I think, that's Really common, it's just I took a lot of time off this year away from the platform just because, at some points it just feels like too much and, yeah.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I think if it gets that, and that's what I've learned, because, but on the other hand, there's something really fun about doing it, and I think it's about moderation.

Stephen Drew: And I spoke to a really interesting chap yesterday, his name is Sean, and he is a LinkedIn instructor endorsed by LinkedIn, and he does Revit courses, and we were talking about how He will do all nighters, and I've done all nighters, and I bet you do all nighters, you've done all nighters, we've all done them, right?

Stephen Drew: And there's sometimes it's the architect's curse of, not curse, it's the fountain pen, there's a film and there's that famous scene where the building's going to go ahead and the architect's we're not going to do it like that, I'm going to fix it, and then the camera comes back and it [00:17:00] shows a shot of him passed out, on the desk, but the building's done.

Stephen Drew: And there is something noble about that. But there is something also, I think, self destructive. So there's the balance of, because life is awesome. So you want to, so travel, super enriching. And actually where I'm going with this is that the travel and your experiences doing that will then give a new second it will give a perspective on your, which will improve your architecture.

Stephen Drew: Okay. Having a break away from things will improve your architecture. And then having a break away from your social media. You'll then love the social, you'll love your channel when you do it, because you get the thrill out of it. And I find that, I understand that, but when you're actually doing these things with responsibility, it's really hard to constantly manage the responsibilities without one tipping over.

Stephen Drew: So yeah, I've been there. Yeah. What would your advice [00:18:00] be to anyone that's Balance in a few responsibilities or like yourself's got a successful platform. Would you any particular pearls of wisdom?

Alvin Zhu: I don't, I'm probably the last person who asked for advice. Cause I just disappeared for a bit.

Stephen Drew: I'm not happy with this. I'm going to get out my. My bad, don't be a Debbie Downer, so in the UK that means like you're completely underselling yourself. You're definitely not the last person to ask because you've got an amazing channel, you're a really nice guy, and you're really helpful to a lot of people, so Okay,

Alvin Zhu: here we go.

Alvin Zhu: If I were to give advice, it would be to Really remember that, taking a step back is okay, because for me sometimes I feel really bad when I want to take a break, I feel like, this is my responsibility now, I have to keep going or I'll let people down, but, people understand that a person is running the [00:19:00] page and it's okay to just step back sometimes.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I think that makes sense.

Future Plans and Evolving Projects by People
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Stephen Drew: It's quite interesting that you're doing your master's now. I think that things change. And I'll tell you another little story about me is that I remember when I was on my third year of architecture and it's just about to finish. So third year is like the first part of the degree.

Stephen Drew: And I remember it was just about to finish and I had a complete freak out. And I remember I saw the university counselor. So I was like, it's ending. I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't know what the next chapter is. But then when I finished and then I started looking for a job and went to the next chapter, suddenly things over time started to become okay and you adjust to it.

Stephen Drew: But it's like your math isn't in, I think you could totally get sucked in and grossed and things can change. And what I quite like as well is the little bit like I've noticed is subtle changes with your, with the projects by people which have changed over time. You've introduced new infographics, you introduced new ways to go [00:20:00] about it.

Stephen Drew: I think that's important though, to constantly evolve the platform. Do you have any plans for where you want to take it? Or right now are you quite happy with where it's at?

Alvin Zhu: That's a good question actually, because I'm currently in the process of making a pretty big change. I think, you know, for quite a while I was really dissatisfied with the platform, not because, it wasn't, Doing a good job, but I just think it could be doing a better job.

Alvin Zhu: And, like I said earlier, the goal has always been to connect people, to try and get conversations going. And it slowly became less about, the people, and it became more about people just wanting to, showcase their work. Okay, that's

Stephen Drew: interesting. I'm gonna, let's talk about this point for a second because I think you're up to something here and I've noticed it as well where just to post stuff up I think sometimes [00:21:00] I've seen A good example would be a Revit course, okay?

Stephen Drew: Does the person want to study it to learn and improve their BIM?

The Value of Learning Beyond Certification
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Stephen Drew: Or do they want that piece of paper at the end? I think there's a little culture of that sometimes. Actually, I've done it before. Remember, I signed up to a course before and really I just wanted the certification. This was years ago. I looked back and I was like, Oh, I wish I went to more of the classes.

Stephen Drew: Stephen Drew, you are an idiot. But actually, yeah, because the point of the class is that you're in the class and you learn, and you engage with other people, you make friends, and from that You gain experience and you gain you just improve or maybe you don't, you have, you gain an opinion. You go, I did it this way, I learned this failed.

Stephen Drew: And from that is the real value. Not the PDF page and not the certificate that comes with it.

Engagement and Community Building
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Stephen Drew: And so my question is, [00:22:00] so with your tool, it's really good at showcasing awareness. Yeah. How do you keep engagement with these things then? So it's I have it on the social as well where the architecture, social is amazing when conversation goes, and so I am trying to actively push everyone to chat with each other.

Stephen Drew: And when, and one of the interesting things that came out of it is that someone messaged me the other day and they were like, oh I actually. Spoke to someone on the platform and we both like tennis, so we went to play the game of tennis. And I was like, that is amazing. I was like, that's probably one of the coolest things I've heard on there.

Stephen Drew: Okay. And that's what I wonder is, so with Instagram, how much of the Instagram, so Instagram is great for promoting awareness and it's like LinkedIn. But you can get lost into the algorithm and you can get lost in the feed. And what I'm, where I'm trying to go with this is like, how do you retain substance and get people [00:23:00] talking and get people involved and it not becoming something with something post they work and then they flitter off somewhere else.

Alvin Zhu: That's something I've been trying to figure out for

Stephen Drew: a long time. I was open for an answer, but I was like, That's a really unreasonable question because everyone's working out. It's difficult though, isn't it?

Alvin Zhu: It is.

Failures and Iterations in Projects
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Alvin Zhu: I guess what I've always tried to do is, freshen things up, try something new, something different.

Alvin Zhu: Hopefully it works because, I've tried so many different, I don't know, different initiatives and whatever through projects by people and they've All failed. Hang on, but I

Stephen Drew: like that though, failure is so important. I do stuff all the time in the Architecture Social, which doesn't work and it reiterates it because actually what I like about Projects by People is that it's focused on everyone.

Stephen Drew: Anyone can submit their work and it is great for ideas because you get a raw feeling for someone's work. And I like, that's why on the Architecture Social Instagram I like that the [00:24:00] work on there is from people within the community, but yours is quite nice. As in anyone can submit their work and you get to see the person and the work involved.

Stephen Drew: So maybe is that enough for, cause you're quite ambitious, are you going to take it another level? Where projects by people comes into something else.

Innovations in Project Presentations
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Alvin Zhu: Yeah that's what I'm working on right now, actually, I don't know, a year ago I had the idea to get people to submit videos of themselves speaking and stuff like that.

Alvin Zhu: But back then it was weird, but nowadays it seems like it's a perfect time to get that started because everyone's using Zoom, everyone's on, Google Hangouts or whatever. So the change I'm making now is to transition into. Not an interview style format, but it's more of a video cover thing.

Alvin Zhu: So instead of just a picture, it's a video. I'll conduct the interview. A really quick interview through Zoom or whatever with people and then they'll pretty much be answering similar questions [00:25:00] and, the community will get to know them a bit better than just seeing their picture.

Stephen Drew: Oh, wait, is that what I agreed to do?

Stephen Drew: Oh, you can't make me the first one, Alvin, I'm going to mess it up, huh? I've recorded a few, so you're going to be the first, yeah, but Slipping in on number 10 or 12. I like that though. I love that because you think you've touched my A, I haven't seen that, so it's interesting. But what you're doing is you're talking about kind of the pleasant, the interesting bit of the crit without being there for six hours and your soul slowly evaporating by the end of the day because you've watched so many of them.

Stephen Drew: You're like, oh, I don't know at this point, just let it get me on. Yeah. I like that because what's interesting, what you're talking about with video is that On pictures, it's easy, it's accessible, you don't need bandwidth. But you're right, video, you pick up emotion and tone or audio as well. So it could even be whether you're talking about whether it's audio and you've got the pictures there.

Stephen Drew: I think that's really cool [00:26:00] because you get a sense of emotion and you get a sense of the person. And with video, that's also quite interesting as well. I, yeah, I do think that's a kind of a step up. And then actually what I'm, I like about that, cause it plays upon what I was, earlier I was like, devil's advocate was like, I like what you do, but there were some people put an image or two.

Stephen Drew: Are they really caring that much? But actually, if they're going to do a video, then I like that because the person's got to get a bit more involved. They've got to be, if they're not passionate about their project, it's going to be so transparent, isn't it? That you're like, I don't like

Alvin Zhu: doing it.

Stephen Drew: And and therefore you get a glimpse into the person that's probably going to be better for their job searches and everything.

Stephen Drew: I do think that's a really good suggestion, actually. It breaks the whole pattern of picture after picture just for pictures. Even though I quite like the pictures, but

Alvin Zhu: yeah. I know exactly what you mean. It's exciting. This is the first time I've been excited for anything on projects by people in quite a while.

Stephen Drew: [00:27:00] I think it's great. And that's why I'm actually encouraging you.

Reflecting on Progress and Future Plans
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Stephen Drew: So positivity bell. Yay, I love it. What we've got to remember, though, as well is I think that we all can, and I do the same sometimes, I look back at some of my work, and I'm like, Oh, I shouldn't change that. No, I should have changed that. Or I'm like, Oh, I wouldn't do that.

Stephen Drew: Like now. I've had to start learning is that you have to realize where you were at the time and projects by people. And it's like everything, a good concept starts simple, and then you evolve it over time and certain things work, certain things don't. If you didn't get people on, and you didn't test the concept of people showcasing their work, then you wouldn't get to this point where you could evolve it.

Stephen Drew: So actually, what you're talking about, to me, makes a good involvement, and you shouldn't We shouldn't look back, right? As in, so an example I used last week, it's like I've done a few thumbnails and the audio for the first few of these that I'd done before I got a proper [00:28:00] microphone and all this stuff was awful.

Stephen Drew: And I, because there's a little part of me that before I would have gone back and gone, Oh, can we remaster these or retweak these? The point is, are people really, I think the substance in there was good. And actually if I play around with it. I'm messing with the old formula and actually, why don't I just reinvent the new one, get new thumbnails and experiment with it.

Stephen Drew: . And change how things work. And it's the same thing on the social way.

Challenges and Opportunities in Community Platforms
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Stephen Drew: And it's when, actually let's talk about one that we talked about we, we are involved in. Because when I started, I thought. Oh, it'd be amazing to get all the super cool influencers, groups on the social. And it was a great idea and everyone I asked was up for it.

Stephen Drew: But then what happens is you learn, I, my kind of thoughts is that it's a bit of a repeat of what you guys were doing and therefore it becomes almost a burden and it wasn't that interesting. So I like [00:29:00] Sana's group because she plays with it and. We, you knows from the MAD Collective. Yeah. Very impressive young lady driven, ambitious.

Stephen Drew: I don't know how she does it. Me neither. I would love to have, I need to bottle it into a potion and I definitely, we've make a lot of money who's done a great group, but then what I learned is. It was almost like taking the joy out of it and making it another chore, another platform, another. And so actually, the more I'm thinking about it is that with the groups, based upon that, what I'm going to try and do.

Stephen Drew: So the thing that I'm going to try and focus on, and maybe if we do another one of these, you can be like, Steve, did you do it or not? Is that with the groups, what I'd like is to get all the universities involved. And a place for people, because right now you've got some groups on Facebook, some student unions, and everything's fragmented.

Stephen Drew: But wouldn't it be a really cool idea for all the universities around the world to be in a loose platform together, [00:30:00] but have their own bubbles? Offer something that hasn't been done and offer conversation of people for PA place for people to talk, because I think that hasn't been done.

Stephen Drew: Whereas asking you Alvin, in your busy schedule to repeat your project is like soul destroying. I wanna life. Get me out of here. I'm a celebrity. Get me outta the jungle. But you get what I mean? And, yeah. I didn't have those conversations and learn from seeing what works and what doesn't, what people did and what didn't do, then I wouldn't have got to that.

Stephen Drew: And it wasn't like, Alvin, you haven't done anything. It's hey, I wouldn't do that. It's more okay, why not? And then, oh, it's because it's not that engaging or it's not that interesting because you're actually rehashing like another buffer feeds what's already there. So failure is important.

Stephen Drew: And actually, on that note, I've got to be careful. I feel like pressing this bell all the time, so help me stop pressing the bell. But I think [00:31:00] if you're not out there and you're not failing, then you're not going forward. And I think that, look at it this way, right? Projects with people. I'm subscribed.

Stephen Drew: There's so many people that are subscribed. And then by rejigging the formula and growing it, you actually got a nice core audience. And I think the audience is there because actually, Things are I'm not subscribed to Instagram just for the sake of it And if I didn't like it in my feed, I wouldn't be there.

Stephen Drew: So there's something good there are you quite proud of it? You must be right?

Alvin Zhu: Yeah, I really am because I you know It's one of those things where like you said, there's like a core Audience. And those are the people that really, constantly keep up. And sometimes when they reach out and say, Oh, I loved what you did here.

Alvin Zhu: I loved what you did there. That, it's nice to get I guess the feedback from the people that you, Want to, that you're making the content for, so I really enjoy that part of it. And I think early on, more so than now, it really did do [00:32:00] what I was hoping it would do.

Alvin Zhu: Like people were connecting, asking about projects and stuff. So I hope to bring that back soon, .

Stephen Drew: I love it. Alright, great. And so you've got your course and you've got projects for people. Amazing. I actually am, you are one, you are the one of the top precedents for the Architectural Social on Instagram, so take that as a compliment.

Stephen Drew: What's it say? I am, hopefully I haven't copied you and I've got my own DNA in there. But it's it was an inspiration for it because I was like rather than post generic stuff, why don't I post stuff in the community? And that's where I took from it, is that projects from people, I liked it was by people.

Stephen Drew: And so with the social, if you're, the architecture social, if you're on there and you want to showcase your work, then great. That's what it's for because it's feeding off the interesting part and the bit I like is that it's for the community. So if you're on there and you are someone [00:33:00] engaged and you want to showcase your work, then I'll post it.

Stephen Drew: And that's it. I think that helps push the conversation. And by what you do in a showcase in other people's work, which maybe wouldn't have seen the light of day because they are not Mr. Skidmore, Owens Merrill, or they are not famous just yet or what have you. It's really good to showcase these ideas.

Stephen Drew: So on that note, I think that's been really interesting. Have you got any questions for me, Albert? Do you want to turn the table around and ask me what I'm up to?

Alvin Zhu: Actually, when, so Sanna told me about the Architecture Social and when she told me about it, I was so excited because it ticked all the boxes for what I wanted projects by people to be initially but it was just so much better because it was its own thing.

Future Goals and Aspirations
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Alvin Zhu: And I guess I want to ask what is your goal? Goal for it in the like long term or short term or,

Stephen Drew: okay. I think it's the same way when should plan a bit more. So I was [00:34:00] listening to this today to a really nice individual who's a mentor in the UK called Jason Boyle. And he's like a nuclear architect.

Stephen Drew: And he sent me his little podcast this morning. I was listening to it and he talked about a one year plan, a five year plan and a 10 year plan. And I'm going to, I'm going to. Give you a confession. I am someone that I am the worst person. Sanne, I would drive Sanne mad if I don't do any of this. I follow my gut instinct and that gets sometimes causes, I wouldn't say problems, but what it means is that I could, I go off and follow my instincts.

Stephen Drew: The upside is I tell you it can, I take on challenges and I saw an opportunity there. My gut instinct said that there's nothing here. There's nothing for students. So I was like, I'm going to do it. And a lot of people thought I was crazy. I've had it happen before when I said I will go into recruitment from architecture and people like you insane.

Stephen Drew: And then when I said that I was going to leave. Bespoke Careers, which was a large architectural recruitment [00:35:00] consultancy, big in Australia, big in London, everywhere to set up my own recruitment agency. Everyone thought I was crazy. And then that was successful. Even though I love Bespoke, but at the time I was just so driven to do something different and the kind of challenge myself, but people thought I was mad.

Stephen Drew: So the point is that I. I was on furlough here, I saw an opportunity to help people, and I just felt a little bit frustrated that over the course of my career, students would ask for help, and I would try and help where I could. But when time's limited, you never really give enough attention, so I thought, wouldn't it be awesome if there was a place for architects to speak, and if I can offer some words of wisdom during this time?

Stephen Drew: And I was like I'm going to do it live. And it's the same thing with everyone else. I just put it up. Okay. And I'm not saying this is the way you should do it, but I just whacked it up. And then I spoke to two or three people and then I reached out to you and there was like 10 to 20 people. And now more and [00:36:00] more people join in and I sent messages to reach out but I didn't overly think it.

Stephen Drew: I just felt like my gut, there was a need for it. And also where I look back is that my, my constant benchmark is. Would I have liked this when I was in architecture? And I try to balance the line between because it's very hard to work now. Now, especially I've gone from working two days a week back to four days a week because everyone's returning their work in coronavirus and managing the platform.

Stephen Drew: And that's why I think I've been talking a bit about how you manage the platform, because to me, it's interesting. So I have a full time job with responsibility and a team, and the two projects really help each other out. This project and my job, they both feed into each other really well, but the balance has been difficult and a learning curve, especially with a real life.

Stephen Drew: But so long answer, I don't know where it's going to go. And. That's the fun bit of it [00:37:00] because I see it like what I'm going to try and encourage Alvin is that I want more people to feel like it's theirs to use and that comes over time because everyone's being respectful and they and there's no malice in the group which is amazing and everyone by the whole you just don't know like an internet troll or something comes in oh no I've got to get out my like pc Placing our, excuse me, no sexist comments in here, which, yeah, I'll just go around with my horn and kick people out.

Stephen Drew: But everyone's been really good and really supportive and the community has been awesome. And I guess I'm interested in experimenting with that formula and my next goal is to try and get more and more people, like for instance, say now you have an idea that you want projects for people to feed into the Architecture Social, then that's what it's for.

Stephen Drew: The thing that I'm going to roll out next, oh gosh, I shouldn't announce it here. I have a problem of announcing things and then hopefully I've got to make sure I do them. So what I will do is I'm thinking of doing a weekly architecture show, [00:38:00] which I'm going to do live on YouTube. And I'm going to talk about new jobs that are happening, news that's happening, and I'm going to honk my horn and get guests on and hopefully have a bit of fun with it.

Stephen Drew: But maybe, who knows, maybe we can become, oh, who's begging you, Jimmy Fallon or Jimmy, that would be fun, right? So we'll see. Sure, but like everything else, we'll see where it goes, Alvin.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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Stephen Drew: And like you, who knows where the formula will go. On that note, if anyone hasn't heard of you, or hasn't seen Projects by People, where do we find you, Alvin, and where do we find Projects by People?

Alvin Zhu: Projects by People, at the moment, it's just on Instagram at Projects by People. is the handle. I'm working on the website. Hopefully it it can do a better job. It's not just a submission portal and oh, also on YouTube. Better job, I'm gonna hop the whole YouTube thing and Debbie down again.

Alvin Zhu: I'm sure it's going to be good. Hopefully. And yeah, I'm starting to get into YouTube now. I [00:39:00] think that's the next thing for me as well. I've always loved YouTube. And yeah, hopefully it goes well.

Stephen Drew: I think it will, and it makes sense with what you're talking about in terms of video.

Stephen Drew: Especially with live streaming, because I know you use StreamYard. Actually I use StreamYard now because of the MAD Collective. And on that note, the MAD Collective! Where can

Alvin Zhu: we find the MAD Collective? So we have our website, madcollective. org. We have, we're most active on Instagram, so it's the underscore Mad Collective, I think.

Alvin Zhu: You

Stephen Drew: google Mad Collective, it'll pop up, right? Yeah. They work in Europe I'm like that. Is it there? Is it not? All right. Look, I think what you've done is awesome. Thank you. I think that you are someone that's changed the, a bit of the digital fabric, definitely. And I think I think you are incredibly humble and you will I reckon you're going to be one of the influencers which changes this space.

Stephen Drew: So keep going and I won't honk my horn, oh, [00:40:00] maybe a little honk, very impressed. All right. Keep going. I absolutely love having you here and it's good to talk about the realities of studying architecture, traveling and everything else. Thank you so much, Alvin. Thank you, Stephen. It was an absolute pleasure.

Stephen Drew: All right. Signing out.