Architects Building The Metaverse, ft. Sergey Nadtochiy at Dearch Space

Architects Building The Metaverse, ft. Sergey Nadtochiy at Dearch Space

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Stephen Drew: Whatever universe you are in. The Metaverse, a parallel universe. It's all good to me. We're gonna go deep. I hope you got your ar vr goggles ready, but if you haven't, don't worry. You got a bit of time. You still go in the Metaverse keyboard of mouse. Oh, good. Okay. 15 seconds. Grab your virtual, your real avatar. Put a side chat G p T for a minute. Okay, cool. Five seconds. Hello everyone and welcome to this livestream special. I'm Stephen Drew and thank you for joining me on your lunch break [00:01:00] or wherever you are in real life. I appreciate it. Last year I covered a lot of topics on the Metaverse. It's an exciting space and I'm really, I. Keen to see what's happened. It was all the hype you were hearing about Mark Zuckerberg's new platform, all this stuff.

However, this year the focus has been on the robots, the ai, the chat, G p T. It's gonna steal people's jobs. Not really, but. The Metaverse is still there in the background, and what better way to find out what's going on in the Metaverse in 2023 than to catch up with an Architectural professional who has a business and is doing stuff.

The Metaverse still believing in it. While you are typing away on chat G p T prompts, he is building stuff and organizing a f Worlds first festival that we will talk about. And on that note, can I invite can I welcome Serge from D e r d Arc Space to the stage [00:02:00] Serji, how are you?

Sergey Nadtochiy: Hi everyone. I'm feeling good. Thank you for inviting me. It is a pleasure and yeah, I'll try to tell you everything about what's going on. Architecture, Metaverse.

Stephen Drew: Brilliant. I really appreciate that surgery. Now, while we met the other week or two online in the Metaverse, some people might not have met you yet, so can you first of all tell us a little bit about who you are, Serji and your background?

Sergey Nadtochiy: Sure. So I'm the founder of the Ark Space Studio, which is a studio creating virtual spaces, Metaverse spaces. We also organize events educate students. And we did this for one and a half years, approximately before that I worked as a practicing Architect and I still continue being the art director of Architectural Studio, where I was doing lots of experimental projects.

Also, some projects with virtual reality, computational design, et cetera. [00:03:00] Before that, I started in Architectural Association where.

And and it's life changing power, so to say.

And yeah. Finally I'm organizing the first ever Metaverse Architecture Bele, which is going to take place September 21st on two Metaverse platforms, central End and Worlds. And yeah, I invite everyone to come there and join this amazing event, and I can tell you in detail about this very soon.

Stephen Drew: Brilliant. I've got the links here, and we are gonna talk more about the festival, and I want to unpack your business, but first of all, surgery, there's a reason. There's a journey. You've got here. So I'm sure there must have been some point when you've been doing your Architecture, you were studying or whatever, you heard about the Metaverse, you saw the opportunity and you thought, I need to get involved.

So tell us at the start, when did you start thinking, I need to get involved in [00:04:00] building and the Metaverse.

Sergey Nadtochiy: Back when I was in a, it was yes, 2019. So we had the whole studio speculating about the potential of.

Metaverse even didn't came up, and I had amazing tutors from space popular, the studio that does lots of virtual Architecture and design projects. So I was really inspired about the potential and we were speculating. So how is it gonna be like in 10 years and 15? Of course it was a student project it wasn't really grounded in some actual technology that we could have used. And so then I started just practicing Architecture and had the other interests, but I always was like following all the news and then [00:05:00] the, this topic became much more relevant. And some of my friends, they were like, oh, you are a designer, so you know something about us. And they were like doing their own platforms, starting their own blockchain protocols, and they were saying, man, you should come and join this industry because there's gonna be like, It's gonna be so huge, and so you can't miss this chance.

Yeah, and I thought yeah sounds legit. Really I should get myself together and find some partners and people who I can do this with and with my partner and co-founder Valentin he's also educated. As an Architect. But he did his own hardware startup for five years.

Decided to start the ark space and focus on what can architects bring to the Metaverse. It was. The beginning of 2022, right? And it was still this kind of NFT and Metaverse hype at that moment. The idea to kinda [00:06:00] raise money and make your own NFT Architecture gallery was something that we thought would be very easy to do. this kind of first ideas in mind. We started going to some conferences, speaking with people doing blockchain startups like with Ethereum, polygon near and all this different technologies that what that blockchain users like these companies that.

Stephen Drew: Yeah.

Sergey Nadtochiy: Then things could started to get a little bit more complicated because we are kind the crypto winter has begun in late, like a year ago approximately, and we realized that actually there won't be so much money coming to this s so many businesses. And at that moment there were already two startups that were in the middle of doing something similar to what we have proposed in the beginning.[00:07:00]

So we started to find another product market bid, so to say. We thought that, okay, if it's not gonna be about NFT and Block and all the speculation with this industry, how we. With our Architectural industry to make this Metaverse develop. What would be the benefits of products that we produce?

And we participated in a few projects where we were designing this virtual environment. And I think that first of all, we realize that as architects, we understand how to make. Functional spaces, how to make beautiful spaces, how to make, how to bring brand identity to this three D environment without just putting logos everywhere.

So how to make it on a deep level, how to entertain people. With Architecture, we saw that. Also using our knowledge, we can focus the [00:08:00] attention of people on some products, right?

The way you design Metaverse spaces is really quite similar to the way you design physical spaces, because the ergonomics is very much similar in the Metaverse. And we made one very big event for blockchain. And it was interesting that we have collaborated with a PR agency with a creative agency and it really was an amazing event.

Visited by more than 4,000 people,

published the international media. We even collaborated with one gallery that gave us the virtual copy of.

Stephen Drew: Oh wow.

Sergey Nadtochiy: This in one of our spaces. So we wanted to bring more more entertainment, but also more value to this experience. Then we made a fashion show for sodium Space, which is one of the most developed Metaverse [00:09:00] platforms. And I think that the projects that we did they got very good recognition.

Or the style or this kind of very individual approach, they look quite different what the majority of other studios have produced. And since that moment we're creating this kind of bespoke solutions. But still the market, I would say isn't huge yet. So we don't have like many commissions and Don't set the goal for us to become this studio that yeah, only produces this OKE project.

We wanted to be more open about what else we can do. So we started analyzing the market and I would just generally say that the problem with the Metaverse industry is, In many aspects. There are some creators there, there are some businesses there, but what they produce just for themselves.

So it's like a closed circle of [00:10:00] people, and therefore the industry isn't rapidly growing. It is very important to bring other businesses to the mad. With our research, we discovered that for. Furniture brands, it might be quite relevant actually, to show their products on treaty. Like it sounds good, sounds legit.

And we had several meetings with different brands and despite them being so far away from this virtual world, because they produce very physical items they started to get interest. The new step for us is to communicate with real estate developers, because also they're selling some three D designs, right? Usually they're selling projects just on paper visualizations. Metaverse would allow to give We're not even focusing on this term, Metaverse in this case, we're saying that, okay, we're making this new immersive eCommerce and it works. Of course technologically we had also like a very long [00:11:00] journey because we're different gaming engines like Unity. Unreal. There are some platforms that allow you to open the.

Stephen Drew: Yeah.

Sergey Nadtochiy: Without everything, but then the quality of graphics is like very low. And there are other platforms that allow you to bring also hundreds of visitors, but they're paying for every entry and therefore you cannot organize events like our Metaverse. Even more dollars for the visitors to come. So we should always balance and find different solutions. And that's exactly what we were doing for the last year. So we have now three kinds of projects. We have bespoke projects, we have this kind of real estate, very high fidelity projects. And recently we also have launched templates.

Templates are [00:12:00] tools that we're showcasing on our website. It is a very easy way for new clients to kinda go and explore the spaces. See, okay, it looks like a lecture call. Some people can fit there. I have some products. Let's place them there. And it is very easy to envision how this Metaverse space is gonna look like.

To make the creation of Metaverse spaces easy for those people who have never tried this. So let's saying choose the project you like. Give us some brand books, some of your identity like logos. And if you have some products, send us three D models. And in a few days you're gonna get Metaverse.

Project that you can go and use and invite your friends and colleagues and faster, more efficient. And then you can decide, do you need, like a big, expensive Facebook project or Metaverse is not for you and you didn't waste much money and time on experimenting with [00:13:00] this. This is like the stage where Our businesses now.

And I think there are many steps to be done actually to make it work and bring more and make our portfolio even bigger and more diverse. But I'm quite excited about the journey that we made and some new milestones that would achieve by the end of this year,

Stephen Drew: I I love it. And first of all, like well done because it's hard enough running a business. Okay. I know 'cause I run a business as well. However, to do an business in an emergent space such as the Metaverse, also, I applaud it because equally it's exciting. But also you are in new territory. What you're doing hasn't been done by many and there's gonna be a lot of successes and a lot of failures and that business will evolve.

So it's all really, I. Exciting and what you're talking to the templates. I think that would work and that's so useful because I've played around with [00:14:00] it and serji the kind of starting to get to grips of it is very difficult because it's a different set of rules. You touched upon gaming engines, software, different metaverses, all that knowledge you have.

So first of all, well done why I wanted to ask you, so I've got two questions before we talk about the festival. And one I'd like to talk about is like your tips on getting in the industry. But before you do that, can we talk initially about I. In 2022, you mentioned that the Metaverse was everywhere.

People were selling NFTs of a virtual house for lots of money. It was all in the news. Everyone was talking about it, and now it seems that the public has turned their attention to artificial intelligence. So I. One, some people could naively think the Metaverse is dead. I don't think that at all, but what's it been like since the big media attention in 2022 to now 2023?

Is there still a lot happening in the [00:15:00] Metaverse is still going ahead. What's your thoughts on it in this current state right now?

Sergey Nadtochiy: I think like two years ago, there was just too much speculation and this wasn't very healthy, to be fair because for venture investors it was speculation right where the growing and. When you make money out of nowhere, it isn't very healthy, so to say, for any business or industry, right?

There is always a chance to fall down and it actually did happen and many businesses that I know lost money or couldn't get enough funding to continue. Their growth. But I believe that in some way it is healthy because now we really start to understand the value of the startups and what they produce for the Metaverse.

What's their contribution? Is it really so important for everyone to have a, an crypto wallet, for example? Do we really need this? Because [00:16:00] people were saying that, Hey, soon everybody's gonna use cryptocurrency, right? Do we really need this? What do we need this for? We can buy NFTs and Sosa.

There isn't actually so much value to the majority of people in it now, but like with all of this immersive experiences, people thought that okay, soon we're all gonna be having like, some kind of glasses or goggles that would allow us to enter the Metaverse easily. We still need some time for this to happen.

And if we just analyze that like regularly allow around 15 million VR headsets are every year. That's not so much. So we're not gonna be in VR soon, but still there are 50 million people using it. So what can we give them that they won't get on their laptops or smartphones?

And I think that Metaverse would still throw and develop because like we, all of the main technological companies, [00:17:00] meta apple, windows, all of them invest so much money in this in all of this virtual and augmented reality. It is irresistible that we would slowly but surely get into this immersive internet space.

But it takes time. And I hope that now with some events that we're doing we would actually highlight what is the potential of this industry where. Can this bring us? And I hope that we would encourage more businesses to try this because yeah. When you hear so many news about this virtual land selling for millions of dollars, you, it's very difficult to understand how to reflect on this.

Like what you should do. Go and invest all of your money in this, or should you just like never touch this and say, that's that's too much me. Now we're in a much more simpler situation where doing Metaverse project is. Project is quite easy. It [00:18:00] doesn't require to invest so much money.

You shouldn't buy Metaverse land if you don't wanna do this. There are already plenty of experts in the industry who can actually design nice spaces, who can organize big events there. And I believe that It is going to be just another analog of like social media for example.

For example, with TikTok, it has huge audience, right? But. Useless. I don't use it, but I, I understand people who like to watch these videos, right? And but it's not just entertainment. There is e-commerce there, there are influencers there. So it creates its own culture. And with Metaverse, I believe that it the trend is going to be quite similar.

So it's not going to replace any social media. It's not, of course, it's physical spaces. It's just gonna be an environment that has its own qualities and if we unpack this them in the [00:19:00] right way I think that people would enjoy this and go there and yeah, the audience would grow and business would grow there.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I I agree. It's very interesting. Now, you mentioned during the online event, so it's probably a really nice segue into something that you're designing, which is up and coming, which is an interactive online. I keep saying the wrong word, Benen al basically an online cool Metaverse festival.

Tell me all about that. I'll bring it up on the screen, but it just sounds very exciting, but also I have no idea what you've got in store. So tell us about it all.

Sergey Nadtochiy: With my colleagues from agency, from Dr. Space, from World's Platform from Web three Digital Marketing. We're making the first ever Metaverse Architecture. This is going to be the biggest Metaverse Architecture event [00:20:00] ever. Only online on two Metaverse platforms to central and worlds. Our ambition is very simple. We really believe that as graphic designers have created the internet space we use today, architects would create the Metaverse. And we should start this discussion already now. Yes, we just said that the industry is just developing and growing, but I always use this analogy with the beginning of 20th. Car manufacturers were run, were like very much influencing urban design. And now we have so many problems with this, right? It is very simple, an analogy, but with the Metaverse, we also as architects, should be responsible for this new three dimensional environment that we're slowly getting into. 15 [00:21:00] amazing architects who have already produced great virtual Architectural projects. Not all of them exactly for the Metaverse but these architects, they understand the topic very well. And many of these names already from other different events and the words publications, and. We bring that to design the spaces and to reflect the topic of the Biana presence of the future. And there also would be another 15 designers selected through the open call, which is still open until the end of this month. And everyone can apply for showcasing the works on. So how it's. We were very much inspired by the Venice Architecture Pin Ale and Expo because I think that these are very important exhibitions to the Architectural industry.

And I think that. Many people have visited them [00:22:00] and find them also quite inspiring because they give you just an immersive experience in itself. So you just go and explore with the ability you can just enjoy Architecture in itself. Of course, there is a huge theoretical blog there with lots of drawings and annotations and so on. Basic thing you get is the Architectural experience. And what we wanted to do is to give this experience in the Metaverse to people, so two platforms. They're organized in a way that we have a big expo like site in the central end. The other one that you just shown would be around 30 pavilions. There they would be more like Architectural sculptures, so they won't be very much interactive and won't be much annotation and. Huge playground. Huge [00:23:00] Architectural playground. And then from each pavilion you would be able to teleport. So to say, just open another link to a separate world. Created on world's platform.

And World's platform allows you to create this kind of separate world with much higher fidelity, more interactive elements. Text, animation, uploaded. We're trying to take the best from both platforms. As I said, central end is one of these platforms that has quite low resolution of graphics, but it's actually one of the most popular blockchain based Metaverse platforms nowadays and such events as Metaverse Fashion Week, Metaverse Art Week, that were taking place exactly on the same location on Plaza a. More than 60,000 visitors each event. So they were huge in this way. And yeah, the platform allows us to bring so many people there and make it [00:24:00] true celebration in the social way, but then to have the actual cultural depth to all. Expositions that we have worlds on worlds platinum, so their architects can actually fully express themselves.

They can make quite complex geometry. And now all of them are already on the final stages of their designs. So I have seen some projects and it is very interesting how they differently reflect on the. With the experiment with a new formal language that Metaverse allows you to produce, some would bring attention to some of their unrealized projects and ideas they had prepared before.

So to say some,

Stephen Drew: Yeah.

Sergey Nadtochiy: Use this space as a. Really, this event would [00:25:00] highlight the variety of Architectural types this new environment can produce. And yeah, I won't stop there.

Stephen Drew: No, I love it. I'm excited. I will definitely be there. I will be honest. I've only been in one of those metaverses, so it'll be quite interesting to see both. So well done surgery, it looks amazing and everyone here you should. Check out the event. This is not sponsored. This is something because it's cool.

So if it's a cool event and it's on the live stream, then check it out. And I think it's important that we support our creators in the industry. And who knows, you might learn something as well, so do check it out. But Sergio, before you go, anything, I've got one or two more questions to ask you because a co hot topic that always comes up is from architects who probably are PR practicing Architecture right now doing.

Buildings in the physical environment and it can be quite hard getting into the Metaverse, especially if you're busy. Hard [00:26:00] to know where to start in, in your advice. One of the ways to learn more will of course be going to the festival 'cause you get to see stuff there. In your words though, where's the best place to start learning about designing in the Metaverse?

Sergey Nadtochiy: I think that most of these platforms, they're not very difficult to use I think that most of the architects nowadays already have the skill in three D modeling, but different software like Sketch, right? Whatever with all of these platforms you either. Gonna have a builder just in the browser.

So you just upload the three D model and then you set this up. Like with World's platform, it's very easy to try. All of the kind of guidelines are written on the website, so I think that it, they just like couple of hours to create your first Metaverse space. And yeah, there are some more complicated Platforms that require you to [00:27:00] use game engines like Unity or Unreal Engine.

With my team, we're slowly exploring these tools. I think that yeah, it also takes like couple of days to create a best scene and then uploaded but then this engine. So this is blueprints. They're called some scripting, some interactive activities there. And what I would recommend just for architects is to kind of start Yeah, with this platforms nothing special needed. And it is important also to. Not only just to upload this to the platform, but also to start using this because this is what makes it different to all the other sort of visionary Architectural projects.

I really like the potential of this kind of speculative drawings strategies and all of this imaginary [00:28:00] Architecture that was produced for centuries for growing some models. But what is different? Is that in Metaverse you can actually go and experience all of these places and you shouldn't forget about this.

So it's actually it is one of the problems with that I've seen with the Metaverse industry is that you always see amazing announcements. Like some friend has entered the Metaverse, created. what they would do, they would just publish amazing visualizations of this that would go to press releases and people would like say, wow, that looks very nice. But then when you go inside, you actually realize that no, it doesn't look so cool. It works badly and and You shouldn't get into this trap.

It's not about producing images, it's literally about making three built environments where the, it's own atmosphere, texture slides and and just invite your friends, invite [00:29:00] your colleagues and use the spaces to, so this way you would be able to.

Stephen Drew: It makes complete sense. I think that's really good advice. It's similar problems to real life, isn't it? You can have a fantastic building in pictures, but it's all about how the space is populated after and if it is inhabited and enjoyed by the participants. So I agree. Makes complete sense Now, SJI, before you go, I always like to, Opening it up the other way because I've asked you lots of questions and you've kindly answered them, but I always like to flip the table and see if there's any questions you'd like to ask me.

And it could be about it could be about the Architecture Social, it could be about the Architecture Social community. It could be about the stuff I've been doing in the Metaverse, which is work. Some, it's not worked. It could be about the fact that I do a, we do in the Architecture Social, a lot of recruitment.

In [00:30:00] real life, working with computational designers and stuff like that as well. Do you have any questions to ask me at all?

Sergey Nadtochiy: Yeah, of course I do, because I think that we actually have met on the, on one of the Metaverse events. And which means that you visit this events, but have you ever organized some kind of meeting or a gallery or like an three dimensional website?

Stephen Drew: Very good question. So the Architecture Social website started as an online community in the pandemic, and it kept me active when I was in the uk furloughed, which means basically my job was put on pause because of Covid. So I was on this forum and I was always thinking, how can I take it from a two D forum?

A three D space. So I absolutely see the potential and the issue was two. Number one that me, myself, I was time poor. [00:31:00] And number two, I really believe it's good to get an Architect like yourself involved. However, I'm also a big believer in that if you are hiring an Architect you should pay them.

And so at the time, the startup didn't have enough cash to put in this stuff, so I was in that tricky circumstance down the line. I would like to bring architects involved and pay them for it. Maybe there's a competition. Where's a financial sub? Something like that. But, I wasn't comfortable asking students or anything to build this stuff, and it's just not, they don't get anything back.

So the one I did play with, which touches upon the concepts you honor, are about our templates and so on was spatial, like spatial io I think is very good communication tool for you. Literally plug in a meeting room. Or you plug in all this stuff and you can go around it. Like we were in a spatial event the other day.

So I think it's very successful on that. [00:32:00] However, you quickly reach the limits on what you can do without having an Architect or building a custom stage, so again, it goes back to what you're talking about of like how do you utilize the space and what events are there. So I think that. It. It's very interesting in terms of what your event, which is, where I think it could be very successful is that of course you want the beautiful space online.

But again, it goes down to what's happening in the community, what's happening in the event, and it's so just as important as the set pieces are, there is the events which happen. And I've learned that the hard way with a community forum because once you stop giving that love, once you stop engaging. It goes quiet, people move on.

And so it's exactly a building. It's only as good as in the community as the stuff that's happening in it. And that's why I think your festival is a good thing because you need the space. But you need the [00:33:00] purpose. Like why are people there? Decentral land, I've been on there so much and you could spend hours going around like ghost town buildings and I'm like, what is the point of that?

I want to go and interact with people, have a conversation in a cool space, or give me the fashion show, or give me the festival, give me some stuff. I don't wanna just wonder. Dead spaces forever. So I think that they go hand in hand. So that's what I am looking at. So I've got my eye on the space and I think that down the line.

The other thing that I would like to do is like when me and you are talking right now, how could it be in a interactive space online, which is also still interesting because looking at two avatars, It's boring. However, could there be like this live stream where people can go in, the audience participate, come on the show, who knows?

So there's lots of cool ideas. [00:34:00] I'm just not there yet, Sergei. So I'm watching the space. I'm watching the space, and I've got, and I think it will work for the community in the long run. However, I need you. I'm not there myself. So one day. I'd like to get like yourself on board or sunken blimp or whatever, all these cool guys to look at what's there.

But I think it's really important that there are designers in the space like you. And the last thing I would say, I know you didn't ask this, but I'm just dying to say it, is that I still believe that the Metaverse, it reminds me of the. the.com bubble in the internet, so everyone registered the website in 1999.

And then it crashed. And a lot of the websites, they didn't survive. But the key companies like the amazon.com will, and I think that in the Metaverse, there's a lot of ideas and there's gonna be a lot [00:35:00] of platforms. But these, there's gonna be a few. Key ones which survive. And equally, I think the architects like yourself who are designing in the space learning.

Failing, succeeding and keep going are going to be the ones to do it. However, right now it is cold, isn't it? The the public is, concerned about ai. They're talking about Elon Musk changing Twitter to X. Meanwhile, the Metaverse is still there. And I think that's why it is still an exciting space to be in there.

So that's my thoughts. And then I've got my eye on it for the Architecture Social, I. I'm just not quite there yet, but I'd like some good architects in the space like yourself to keep going practicing, and then who knows, in one or two years, maybe I'll be getting one of your templates. You just don't know.

But hopefully that makes sense, Serge, do you have any comments to add to like my roundabout answer [00:36:00] there?

Sergey Nadtochiy: Yes, I totally agree with you that the problem is that half of the spaces, they just stay empty. And when you first enter the Metaverse very important social aspect of this Of these platforms and for example, what we would be doing on our show, we would be doing guided tours through the, because I mean it, it always is nice when you go to, for example, to a museum and there is a guide that explains you something where even better if you able

the same there. We would also try to save the majority of spaces and allow them to be visited after the Biennale also for sure those that are created on a world's platform would be able would be accessible for two months after the show. So if they would be interest for example from people from your community to.[00:37:00]

Gather together and explore the spaces. I think that generally it would be a much more fun experience, but also you can always text me and tell me, okay, we want to have a, like a private tour. Can you give us a moment? And and but this is how I think that actually bringing people to the Metaverse it requires some effort, right?

It won't happen automatically. Like you create something and then it's so popular. It would be just empty, as you said. And we're also trying to solve this problem and that If you are growing a community and I think that we can find different ways to engage your community more with this environment, to actually start slowly unpacking it and bringing more attention to maybe highlighting some the best projects in a quarter. Of course we are now in conversation with all of the other media partners that we have because I'm [00:38:00] always saying that it is an online event.

There won't be visitors just like coming from the street. You have to invite everyone. You have to communicate this like many times so that people actually visit the space. And I think that This actually show us how the Metaverse is dependent on the internet we use today. It's on the communities that already exist Architecture, Social.

And yeah, I hope that if we set up this kind of communication it would be interesting and beneficial for everyone. And of course with I would just say that if you or your colleagues are interested in making this kind of Metaverse events, I'm always open to explore the possibilities of providing the space, organizing this for some kind of interaction because yeah, as I said, we should make some more effort at this moment now to, yeah.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I.[00:39:00]

Sergey Nadtochiy: The Metaverse life.

Stephen Drew: I agree. It's no one can do it by themselves. It's basically Architecture, it's in whether in person or in real life, it's teams, it's ideas, it's creativity. So I do think that, if anyone has the itch, they should get involved with this. A particular event because I think it's interesting.

Sergio, you've been an amazing guest and thank you for sh sharing your thoughts on the industry, sharing your thoughts on and the insights to the business, but also the festival. If anyone's enjoyed this and they wanna reach out to you to ask any questions or get in touch or, register for the festival and all this cool stuff, where do they find you Serji, and what are the links?

Sergey Nadtochiy: can find me in LinkedIn in Facebook and but you better go to Instagram, Metaverse. And this is yeah, this is the best entry point to understand what we're [00:40:00] doing, what's our vision, and how we also responding to messages there.

Stephen Drew: Fantastic. Thank you so much Serge. And for our audio listeners at the end, I'm just gonna say the two websites, which have the Twitter links and all that stuff. So De Aspace is d e. Arc, A R C H space. SS P A C E. That's the website number one. And then we have the Metaverse Arc Bial. I finally said it, correct my Welsh accent.

And that is www dot Metaverse arc, R C h bial, which is B I E N A L e.com. Awesome. Thank you so much Sergi. Stay on the stage while I end the livestream and thank you and the audience for joining us here. If you like this, then I don't know, click a like somewhere. I dunno what platform this is anymore.

But more importantly, if you did like this, forget the sign up to the festival. I will be there too, and I'm looking forward to seeing it. It's [00:41:00] always fun, especially to go to these events in their first form. It might be. One of those festivals in 10 years time, which is gonna cost you a fortune for the ticket and you can go for the first one.

Who knows? It's an emergent space. But thank you so much for joining us. I'm gonna end the livestream here. More content come in this week and I think a lot in two weeks as well. Lots of different topics about the built environment, real life, but also tech as well. Thank you so much everyone, for joining us.

Take care. Bye-bye.