Baron of BIM, BIMZOOKAS and Beyond

0045 - Baron of BIM, BIMZOOKAS and Beyond
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[00:00:00]

Introduction and Welcoming the Guest
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Stephen Drew: Good morning, good afternoon, wherever you are. I am Steven Drew from the Architectural Social, and I'm joined here by royalty from around the world, Bona Harris, AKA the Baron of BIM. Hello. I've never, Baron, Mr. Baron, I've never had royalty yet. You're like the. First royal guests on the architecture social and I'm privileged.

Stephen Drew: The only thing is you'll have to apologize. I'm not worthy. I didn't roll out a red carpet. Please forgive me, but how are you today?

Baron of BIM: Thanks, Stephen. I love the digital red carpet. There's nothing wrong with a virtual red carpet.

Stephen Drew: And we'll do it we'll put, we'll roll out the virtual red carpet.

Guest's Background and Journey
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Stephen Drew: And so we've spoken a little bit, we originally spoken on LinkedIn, but for anyone that's not familiar with yourself and what you do you want to give a bit of an insight about who [00:01:00] you are? Yeah, I

Baron of BIM: must first correct you on the baron and there's no royalty there,

Baron of BIM: unfortunately, living down in the deepest darkest of Africa at the moment, there's no royalty this side, yet, although the baron of Bim is self proclaimed, I think much like any other Bim manager is self proclaimed.

Baron of BIM: Yes I found the status and I stick to it. I think many of you know me through social media, and I think that's where we met. It's been a fantastic, I think, journey just watching the whole social architecture group. It's actually, for me, it's great to be a part of it, and I think many of your followers, they're just as passionate as me.

Baron of BIM: And I think, we have this unraveled opportunity to use digital media as well as social media to maybe just it. Pick Cherry, pick these valuable lessons that we're learning and we're great. Well done to you. I'm great. It's good to be part of the show.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, sure. Of course. I'm more interested in you.

Stephen Drew: Okay. And this is what's been fantastic because at first I think you, it was one of the live streams and I think you said hello [00:02:00] and. Probably even geographically due to geographic, cause I'm based in the UK, you're based in South Africa. I wasn't familiar with I wasn't familiar for instance, with exceptional BIM, which now I am cause I'm quite I'm, which rule am I but I'm rule number nine, I think, aren't I, about hiring a raw talent, which was really fun.

Stephen Drew: And. I wasn't familiar with it before, so I had a lot of fun with that. But for context here, so currently you run Exceptional BIM Foundation. And do you want to let everyone know about the Exceptional BIM Foundation? I

Baron of BIM: think, let's take a few steps back and look at where, where I've come from.

The Role and Impact of BIM
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Baron of BIM: Yet I think I'm pretty much outspoken, not just social media, but my responsibilities and experience through leadership and development within the construction industry, particularly here in South Africa and other African continents countries, should I say. I'm pretty much known for my, I think my strong opinions as well as [00:03:00] that ceaseless energy that you could have evangelism if you want.

Baron of BIM: But I founded the BIM Institute five years ago for South Africa. That's still running now at the moment. And that led to the BIM Academy Africa, which became the sort of the engine room behind driving guidelines and looking at how do we dramatically improve. Standards as well as technology across the, the footprint of Africa and follow the likes of, the UK, Singapore, Australia.

Baron of BIM: We just watch you guys make mistakes and then we just learn from

Stephen Drew: them. Oh, that's vague words. In the UK, you would be what I would refer to as a cheeky chap, but I quite like a bit of a cheeky chap. And I think, especially in this kind of culture, I think it's really important for to have a stimulating conversation.

Stephen Drew: And I think that's one of the things that I appreciate is that you have to speak your mind. Hey, I don't want to get barred from a desk or anything like that, but at the same time, I do [00:04:00] think. That you can't, yeah, no, we can go into that at some point, but I do think it's important for, especially everyone globally to talk and offer each other different perspectives.

Stephen Drew: And I think sometimes that unfortunately conversations can get censored before they even begin. And that's a little bit of a shame. I don't think we make a lot of mistakes here. To bring it into architecture and BIM. So. Tell me, you've mentioned earlier, and I'm going to pick this up a little bit at the intro and I absolutely loved it.

Stephen Drew: So when you said self proclaimed title as BIM manager, what did you mean by that?

Baron of BIM: All right. I want to, again, I've got to be very careful of my steps. And as I said, I acknowledge the fact that I have been accused of being both uncompromising and unmindful. I think because of my passion. Yet I own that everyone else does.

Baron of BIM: And I think while assuring listeners, to my opinions, they do evolve with conversations, what is case [00:05:00] studies, the debate around new studies, and that's what makes this industry, such a passion for those who have it.

Challenges and Opportunities in BIM
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Baron of BIM: I think we can all agree, the industry is full of stakeholders that are driving to improve this sector as well as innovative and regardless if we talk about COVID 19 and all the challenges around it, we are facing some of our toughest challenges today with the impact of digital technologies.

Baron of BIM: Sure. And it's impacted our lives everywhere, not just in the last 10 years, but the last 10 months. It's driving this huge change across not only industry, but health, healthcare, education, entertainment. Almost every facet of our life is impacted, including Twitter, thanks to Donald Trump. Yes, I think the benefits largely outweigh the costs as well as that disruption and that, that adoption, I think, necessitates the degree of disruption, especially when we're still seeing many of these traditional practices that are heavily [00:06:00] ingrained in the larger traditional style of way of working.

Baron of BIM: I think we're all forced to adapt or be consigned to history. Some might need to explain that again to Donald Trump,

Stephen Drew: but hey it's, I think his days are over now. It's a completely mad world. But I guess what I appreciate is from obviously you have a lot of value and expertise and I think exceptional BIM podcast.

Stephen Drew: And if anyone hasn't checked it out, you can find it on YouTube with exceptional BIM. But what I quite liked with it is that I felt like the message was quite. sincere. And I think that especially at the moment, I think online you get so, so much content. You can get content from every everywhere, but there's, what's really important is to have to have opinions and.

Stephen Drew: And content and offer expertise based upon existing experience. And I think that's the important part to make because actually, and I can even see here now. So even going through your career, you've worked within the architecture [00:07:00] industry for so long. And you actually started out many years ago, South Africa as a quantity surveyor.

Stephen Drew: Which is a really important role. So what I would love to get to. No never. We were talking about it earlier, weren't we? QS and architecture. We should be in like a design team meeting somewhere right now arguing, isn't there? But, absolutely not.

The Relationship Between Architects and Quantity Surveyors
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Stephen Drew: And I think, this is the important thing because BIM is all about collaboration.

Stephen Drew: And I'm sure that there's an interesting avenue. That you got to, which brought to you to where you are now, like your career trajectory and how it went, but do you want to wind the clocks back a little bit and tell us how you got an industry and what it was like as a QS on the front line?

Baron of BIM: Any QS listening would understand this statement. I, I got out of the QS industry. I was just simply tired of those days where I felt that I was on the battlefield, just stabbing the wounded, I think. Many of the people don't understand the real role of equine survey, and maybe some people just think it's [00:08:00] measuring drawing and thumb sucking some rates based on a previous job experience.

Baron of BIM: And I think for my understanding, the beauty about a quantity is someone who knows how to fix a problem when we were, we, one didn't exist in a way that he can't explain if that means if I look at my experience coming in the last 30 years and I've been in this industry 30 years, I've got the scars to prove it.

Baron of BIM: And if I look at the design professionals, especially architects who have led the way so far with them, and I see the rest of the supply chain that's falled woefully short without exceeding, but here's the catch though. The advantages of BIM just happen to increase further down the project line, depending on your, where your specialization sits.

Baron of BIM: And although architects, I think, optimize the work processes and helps decrease their risks, they still are the heavy lifters, especially with designing these models, taking responsibility of the integrity. And [00:09:00] unfortunately, it's the larger profits that are still enjoying violence in the contractors and ultimately the clients.

Baron of BIM: Now, as a quantity surveyor, we look at their industry, most, if you want to call them an estimator, a cost manager, a digital quantity surveyor, doesn't matter what you want to call them, the profit margins within that industry are completely different. And I think from my experience. The estimators, I think, have remained very, should I say the profit margins within the estimating industry have remained very slim over the past sort of decade and the unpredictability of design process, I think, still poses much of a risk when it comes to looking at things such as measurement and simply, I have to say this, but okay.

Baron of BIM: Bye. Bye. Not many QS's trust the architect design and I must say it takes a lot of trust, I put in, put your trust into an architect who's just started playing with Revit.

Baron of BIM: Yet now we're helping [00:10:00] on standards. There's this one, I'm so one nine six five eight one six five one six one nine six five oh crusade. And it was reminds me of that Star Wars movie, I used to love the Star Wars movie, when Anakin Skywalker fell to the dark side, pledging her loyalty to the Darth Sidious, because of the fear and the anger, the resentment and the lust for power I see a very similar pattern forming within the BIM industry.

Baron of BIM: Where sometimes you feel that the BIMP standards have a similar pattern where you will join us or die, my master. I don't know if you get that feeling is that there's this crusade to get a standard across the world and indoctrinate everyone with a particular standard. May that be driven by the UK's BS 1192 and PAS 1192 standards.

Standards and Measurement in BIM
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Baron of BIM: Yet, among all these standards, and I'm for standards. I think we seem to forget the fact that quantity takeoff, I know this is where I get to the management side that drove my passion when I started getting [00:11:00] into BIM 10 to 12 years ago, is that the quantity takeoff and the measuring standards within BIM are missing.

Baron of BIM: We can talk about standards all day, but for some reason there seems to be this link and some people call it 5G boom. Believe it or not, I mean it, it doesn't even exist in physics. Yet the point I'm trying to make is that there's more to it than just applying a standard. And we look at some countries around the world, South Africa in particular, and many other African countries, we're still driving the standard method of measurement.

Baron of BIM: Volume seven. We've got African countries as well as other developing countries that are still talking about smart city development and industry 4. 0 artificial intelligence, machine learning. We talk all about this, yet governments are pushing this new technology frontier without realizing the understanding of how do we break down these entrenched silos, regardless if you're doing the mandates or not, they [00:12:00] still ingrained.

Baron of BIM: And unfortunately the delivery method of choice on projects is what paves the way for using new innovative ways of working, regardless if you've adopted the new technology or not. And I think for many designers. We help into an understanding the design standards. But when we talk about the measuring standard and we talk about, let's say, a BIM measuring standard, it doesn't exist.

Baron of BIM: We talk about the RICS, new rules of measurement, yes, they are probably one of the front runners in driving standards for cost managers and estimators and are introducing new standards such as ICMS, the International Construction Measuring Standard, and that's great. But then just when we see there's a nice sort of tied road heading towards a standard.

Baron of BIM: We start to see the potholes popping up, and that's unfortunately, I think, where QSs are falling short of this opportunity. [00:13:00] The relationship between the quantity surveyor and the architect, I always said, is the fortune favors the brain. And that fortune is for the digital QS, who's obviously had a chance to understand his future.

Baron of BIM: And unfortunately as we've seen in the last 10 months, no, no one's future is guaranteed yet. If we ignore the transformation that's happening, regardless of your profession, I think one would be naive to think that we shouldn't be discussing the top, the topic of digital standard delivery among professionals.

Baron of BIM: Before we discuss building information model, and I think we should all realize the fact that, we don't like instant change. No one likes instant change, but gradual change is imminent. And as we start to change and change the way we think these transferable skills, as well as the flexibility of the way we work is going to help, shape shift the way we work within this industry.

Baron of BIM: And [00:14:00] I think that these tools, these technical tools are only really the tip of the iceberg. We really, as an industry, need to start diving below the surface to really see the impact that these standards are going to have, not just on the design industry. Because right now, BIM seems to be all about design and we need to break this myth busting around data and models, I think, for the bigger professional industry, including quantity surveyors and the like.

Baron of BIM: I don't know if that's, if that is right now. We should be discussing.

Stephen Drew: Wow. That was a lot, that was a lot of information to unpack there, but I can see why you are the barren BIM in some ways. . Hey, that was interesting. Now I caught a lot of it. The thing is, I used to use Revit many years ago when I was in industry and I was effectively.

Stephen Drew: A junior architect or in the UK, an architectural assistant. I've recruited on BIM over the years. And the one thing I can say is from an architectural [00:15:00] perspective, there is a huge emphasis on BIM, but the bit that I thought was interesting when you're talking about it there is that the architect actually does a lot of heavy lifting, and I think that's a fair assumption because in terms of recruitment now.

Stephen Drew: I work at McDonald company. I run the architecture team and a lot of what McDonald company does and what they know in the UK is they have the preferred recruitment supply for the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors. That's really interesting because I'm probably the only person in the whole office, which gets BIM roles.

Stephen Drew: So we work with quantity surveyors, developers, there's no quote unquote BIM managers there, the closest role I've had is a BIM document controller and that was at a developer a year ago and that was a big deal because that was the first BIM role I'd ever seen in a developer or a quantity surveyor.

Stephen Drew: And. Yeah. So that's where, when you were talking about it, that's the kind of parallels I draw, whereas actually, as you said, a lot of architects in the [00:16:00] UK, it's been a huge, big deal. We're a little bit behind the curve. I'm sure you'll agree compared to I remember in basically in 2014, the best architects or BIM managers and BIM coordinators were all architects from Australia that had been using Revit for years, and they would come to the UK.

Stephen Drew: And quite rightly because of their skillset, no one here used Revit. No one understood it, and it was this idea of how do we get to BIM level two? And really we weren't even like BIM level one. It was like again, on these standards you would talk about, it was imaginary. It was like BIM level zero, which is what basically a 3d model.

Stephen Drew: Cause it's just sitting there in the office without anyone looking at it. But that's the comparisons I draw and. I think that what's quite interesting, though, is that in terms of recruitment, and I'd love your thoughts on this as well, what I've seen this year is that I've had roles with these new kind of I say new, they're companies which have been around for a few years, which are especially doing well currently in the current climate, which [00:17:00] is, for instance BIM consultancies or BIM specialists, which looks at CVM environments, the software platforms, and this kind of good talks about this world that you're bleeding into now.

Stephen Drew: And I actually, last year before the lockdown, before coronavirus actually attended an event, which was by one architect in London, which was talking about one of the. You mentioned earlier, the kind of the new labels of 4D, 5D, 6D. And there was one which was materials. And I forget which one it was, Baron.

Stephen Drew: I forget if, which it was, if it was the 4D or the 5D or the 6D. And I had that moment where I felt incredibly stupid as well. I'm like, surely there's like 3D and then there's something else 40 and that's it. It was five day and what's 60 and 70. Can I make an eight day? Do you know what I mean?

Stephen Drew: It was just like, it was going off on a tangent and I, there was an importance there because he was talking about, I think he was talking about material costs and energy within the platform. And I'm sure it has a place in relevance, but I literally went to this talk and I sat there and I think I drank three or four beers because I was [00:18:00] just, I didn't understand any of it.

Stephen Drew: It went over my head and I was there, the guy in the back by the table, just hanging out, having a beer, but maybe you can, maybe that could be something you can help me with. You can decrypt all the four D's for us. Five D's.

Baron of BIM: I'm loving this. And I think let's just, right now I'm going to say let's open Bimdora's box.

Baron of BIM: Okay, cause now I don't have a GT to do this. Bim

Stephen Drew: Dora's box. I love it. Okay. I'm a bit worried what we're going to find inside. Is it going to be like Indiana Jones with my face melts because I don't understand it.

Baron of BIM: Okay. Let's look. I want to start first with, let's myth bust this data modeling.

Baron of BIM: Right now within between the quantity survey and the architect, I think in the last 10 years, we can all agree that this information exchange, it has happened regardless of what stage you're in within the project schematic design right through to the handover. And we're hearing more about now a new standard called this level of information need.

Baron of BIM: And it's admitting these LODs, which is great. Now, [00:19:00] more acronyms come regardless of your standards. I think we need to focus on the issue around workflows and the efficiencies. That need to improve between the design and the estimating stage. And that's what's missing. You hear about jogging about 5D, 6D, 7D.

Baron of BIM: You can't go further than 3D if you don't have data.

Intro: And

Baron of BIM: a 3D model is derived from a 3D BIM authoring tool. I don't call it BIM software. There's no such thing. BIM authoring tools derive the extraction of information, including quantities. And that helps us prepare, the information and this needs to obviously be prepared by the architect.

Baron of BIM: And call him the designer and he's using a design tool such as Revit, architect, Bentley, Tekla. I hate to name one of them, sorry. Yes, I think the accuracy. Of the setup within the actual software directly affects the quality of the [00:20:00] quantified data as well as the measurement and we can't talk about any other dimension.

Baron of BIM: If we can't get the quantified data correct. If it is properly set up by the architect, yes, the efficiencies of paying, let's say the dividends down the line of the project chain would improve with not only documentation, but we would see better structured data. Now I'm going to drop the bomb for those who are listening, what I'm so passionate about.

Baron of BIM: The extraction of quantification, we should be looking at another standard called the level of, the level of measurement needs, right? The level of measurement need depends upon the level of. Information need and that refers to things such as your material schedules. What about your element property costs?

Baron of BIM: Better leverage of data? You're drawing on intelligence. As opposed to experience and if we look at how estimating and planning software work, [00:21:00] it supports a variety of software formats that are derived by these top of these are called in the tech giant software tools. Yet, once you've got the output from the design tool, may the force be with you, that's generally what happens and then it's up to the estimating team to say, guys, we've got the model, we've got the format, let's do our job.

Baron of BIM: What we good at. However, it's a problem here. Now starts with the design data file is a problem because the should we say the levels of data richness. The functionality depends solely on how the architect set up his software design tool. So now the arrangement and that configuration of data solely depends upon the drawing file format that was given to him.

Baron of BIM: And now we talk about standards all of a sudden, and if we look back, not even 10 years ago, the taking the steps from a 2D paper [00:22:00] to electronic 2D drawing file format

Intro: was easy.

Baron of BIM: We look at the basic 2D roster vector files. In PDF. I love blue beam. Sorry. I've got to say that blue beam rocks, but that's because of the way it works with a two D and a three D PDF.

Baron of BIM: But we go further back and we unlock how this technology has unlocked us on to improve the information flow using a three D object based model. And let's say it's got no data. That's like the lights on, but nobody's home. There's no data. There's no material classification. It's pretty much useless to anyone.

Baron of BIM: And that just leaves an architect doing the dumb stuff again, because he's still going to ask for his 2D electronic files, because he has to do the quantity table. Now, quantification data is often not configured to best suit the measurement process of a quantity surveyor or cost manager. When he gets them a 3D model was a good model.

Baron of BIM: Now that entire project then [00:23:00] fails because or fails to cash in on the availability of technology and that initial information that's missing is now the seed for the entire team to benefit from.

Intro: And

Baron of BIM: this only leaves now a BIM model in a design world for things such as clash detection, revision functionality, maybe a little bit of energy analysis and structural analysis, that type of stuff.

Baron of BIM: Yet this word classification schema for the designer means everything and everyone's hell bent on talking about. Oh, yes, your model must have a classification scheme. It's built into ISO 12006. I agree. I'm 100 percent about a classification system. And this is where I think Quantisphase might agree with me.

Baron of BIM: It is not the responsibility of the architect to ensure that the classification schema. Alliance with the way the point of survey is going to measure. [00:24:00]

Stephen Drew: Oh, I think you're going to win a, you're going to win a lot of friends here when you're talking about architects with less responsibility. Because I feel like we're sometimes we take too much, but that's really interesting.

Stephen Drew: That's really interesting. And. I'm quite enjoyed going into the Bim Doras box per se. 'cause I think you highlight an interesting issue there. What I'd quite like to flip around in terms of another question that comes to mind is 'cause I quite like your fresh and candid no bars hole no bars held help.

Stephen Drew: 'cause actually it's quite nice to have someone with who believes in what they say with an honest honest perspective. So what would you say? Yeah, what? So what would you say it's right to an architect right now?

Advice for Aspiring Professionals
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Stephen Drew: We could talk about Key West, but the architecture social is going to be a lot of architects there.

Stephen Drew: And so for anyone that's studying now are entering the world of BIM and they're getting to grips with it. A lot of the stuff that you're talking about is super, super important. [00:25:00] However, they're going to encounter these problems later in their career, or, when, for instance, you're dealing with teams that are.

Stephen Drew: All using the same BIM model. And we're talking about collaboration, but what is too many students loading up? Revit is could be another piece of software, right? That they haven't learned yet, or they're thinking about using the academic work or when they enter an architectural practice for the first time, they just sit in front of Revit and they model in a project.

Stephen Drew: But what kind of advice would you give to someone who's starting an industry, maybe the few tricks that they should. Learn or a few bits of advice so that they don't have many painful nights and have awful experiences that could be avoided.

Baron of BIM: Or grow a goal. I pray he is like the rest of us. Yeah, exactly.

Baron of BIM: I'm going to correct you. I'm not going to tell an architect what to do.

Intro: You

Baron of BIM: got to be cautious. You must be very cautious when you say those words. I'm going to tell you what a quantity surveyor should do right [00:26:00] now. And as I said before, I think the designers have paved the way how we've seen the technology that's available.

Baron of BIM: And what the possibilities are and the benefits and the return on investment for especially architectural engineering firms. Yet, what would I say to a quantity surveyor wanting to work closer with an architect? It's simple. You need to start investing in tools such as Revit, Archicad, Bentley, not just the estimating tool.

Baron of BIM: And the reason for that is you cannot expect an architect to do a quantity surveyor's job vice versa. Yet the seed here is the model. So once you have the model, the information that should be exchanged between designers and estimators right now is making sure that they receive the format in that maybe the NATO format or what if I see whatever format you want to do, sharing that model within a usable format [00:27:00] allows the quantity surveyor now to invest in tools.

Baron of BIM: That allows him to map his own classification schema against the model without jeopardizing any. RP or risk for the design team. Now that's the type of talk that could be seen as treason for many QSs. Cause they say, that's not our job. We are architects. Yeah. I would've had that conversation maybe 10 years ago,

Intro: but

Baron of BIM: This whole new way of working this disruption, if you want this revolution, that's a real revolution.

Understanding the Tools of Choice
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Baron of BIM: Is how do we start to understand the tools of choice used by. Our professionals. And I've always said, you don't have to be an expert within your field. You do need to be able to share your information while applying your technological skill. And making sure other people understand the value that you need, as well as what they require.

Baron of BIM: I think, QSs need to [00:28:00] snap out of it. Honestly, I can say that with every sort of, I can even say louder if you want. You don't know the power of the dark side yet if you haven't been there to try it. And as soon as you start to see the design tool functionality. And the actual requirements that you need, you then can start speaking the right language to your design team, not just talk about standards, because we have to talk about the methods of information delivery and the technical specifications, the modeling conditions are all different depending on your profession.

The Technical Skills Gap in Quantity Surveying
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Baron of BIM: And I think from my experience in the last, being the baron of BIM with exceptional BIM, we have well over a thousand learners right now in exceptional BIM. And we get the same technical question every single time. There is a severe, regardless if you've been in a mandated BIM environment for the last five years, there's a severe [00:29:00] industry wide technical skills gap among quantity surveyors.

Baron of BIM: And there still is a huge resistance to change. That creates the skeptical response to it. Maybe what I call a sporadic upskilling effort by design software vendors that is often seen by a ploy by software by curious is as a ploy by vendors to sell their software, but it's not. We need a cohesive industry.

Baron of BIM: An industry wide strategy, not just a UK boom strategy or an ISO standard strategy, we need a strategy that is designed to retain as well as upskill professionals and encourage standardization depending on the country. Because everyone, every country has a different policy. Every country has a different culture.

Baron of BIM: And at the top, we always talk about people, processes and technology people. And if your government is not driving change. or your company is not driving change, [00:30:00] you need to still grow your wings and realize the opportunity out there because you will die a very slow professional death if you do not transform with these technical advancements.

Baron of BIM: That's a lot of games. Sorry.

Stephen Drew: I love it. I enjoyed it. I just, it's just it's, I find it very interesting. And I quite like a candid conversation because, we might have different perspectives on certain things. We might. There's certain bits, which I don't fully understand the complexities because I haven't worked with a QS on BIM for many years.

Stephen Drew: And when I was in an office, it was different, but I can understand where you're coming from. And I think there's a few, there's definitely a lot of pearls of wisdom in there, and I respect you for saying, I'm not going to tell an architect what to do, because fair enough, I completely agree. Architects don't worry.

Stephen Drew: The Baron is not telling you what to do, but.

The Birth of Exceptional BIM
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Stephen Drew: So let's talk a little bit about, cause, and I'm going to do a [00:31:00] complimentary sidestep. So let's put the BIM box aside for one second. What I find really interesting and and I admire one way. So you've got the BIM Academy in Africa. There was something in you and I this.

Stephen Drew: I wanna understand the barren a bit. And later we're gonna come to the Bim Bazooka, the mooka. Alright. Which we're gonna save the best for last though, 'cause that is the best . But what I'm really interested in, there's been something which has drawn you to come on. This podcast is something which has drawn you to set up a YouTube channel.

Stephen Drew: There's something which has drawn you. To set up the BIM Institute for Africa, the BIM Academy Africa and now exceptional BIM. And that interests me a lot because as a content creator, as someone that kind of built a community in architecture and I enjoy that as well, what kind of drove you to, to.

Stephen Drew: I guess it's starting with the BIM Institute for Africa, right? And your role there as an editor and founder of BIM Academy Africa. [00:32:00]

Baron of BIM: Yeah, look, I'm not going to throw my sorrow stories around with COVID 19. We all have them, but in February, 2020, a organization that had acquired the BIM Academy Africa, 100 percent equity.

Baron of BIM: And we closed shop, we closed books, we closed office. And on the 13th of March, we got a Dear John letter to say, due to force majeure, we will not be acquiring a business anymore. I employed from director down, no more jobs. We closed and we literally had nothing. We started from scratch. For seven months, we rebuilt ourselves and that's a literally a restart.

Baron of BIM: Reset ourselves with a new opportunity. We embraced the reset. I've never. Seeing myself, grabbing an opportunity so down, and I think so many can relate to this, but, my statement for 2021 has been 2021 is not a year of [00:33:00] hope. It's about how you learn to be exceptional and whatever path you choose will be your destiny for this new world or whatever you want to call it.

Baron of BIM: And that's the passion. I wake up every morning and we developed exceptional, but that's what it is being exceptional in what you do.

Gamification in Learning
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Baron of BIM: So we created this really fascinating one of a kind type of learning platform where the way we see all our courses are pretty much gamified and we support a set of leader badges.

Baron of BIM: They're awarded to you based on your learning behavior and the goals that you achieve while you're doing those courses, helping you to engage with other learners, other experts, industry technology, finding out the best of the best on the web. And that way you unlock these various leaderboard badges that brings you up the tier.

Baron of BIM: So now you're not handing over a CV in PDF format. You're handing over a digital badge that is encrypted with all your hours of learning, what you've learned, the software [00:34:00] you've learned, the experience you have, and that, that allows you now to share your achievements, most important through social media platforms, but it also helps the learner understand and open up these open badges that we've created.

Baron of BIM: And it's a whole new way of thinking about learning, which no one's ever done.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, let's talk about that because it's interesting because we have a mutual friend, Pierre, and one of the things that I have talked with him, and I believe he might have talked with you about, is I have a perspective on, because I don't do BIM anymore, but I do recruitment, and part of recruitment is, you have certain Revit, Software, right?

Stephen Drew: Which can people put questions in as they, they blow the bid model. They put questions and answers and that kind of there, thereabouts gives a score, which indicates how good someone is in Revit. And I think that sometimes isn't the best indicator. It's better than no indicator, but more importantly than that, though, forget the test for one second.

Stephen Drew: There's a, I've [00:35:00] got a bigger issue with at the moment, this, I think that there's so much information, there's so many courses and a good example is there's a few courses online where you attend and there's this thing of if you attend the course, you get a certificate, right? And it breeds this culture of, I think where.

Stephen Drew: It's almost like I'll put the course in the background. You fill out a few tick boxes. You haven't really soaked in the lesson. You haven't actually gained something, but you do it to get a certificate. And the reason I know this exists is because I've done it so many times. So let me tell you, I worked in Waitrose in the UK and Waitrose is a supermarket store. Okay. And so when I was studying to become an architect. I had to work in the supermarket store and they were good to me. I'm not having a go, but I was 18 at the time. I was studying architecture. I was going out on the razz, having a few drinks in London at the time, and I was working in waitrose to earn money, and one of the [00:36:00] things was a course you had to do health and safety, how to stack the shelves, which spray to use, you have to do all that stuff, and you had to talk about how to pick up a box with your back, right?

Stephen Drew: And you know what? I was like. I haven't got time to learn this. So I used to literally go on the test, click the answers. I get half of them wrong. Oh, I've got to play the video again. And I would do this and I would just go on my file and the tapper around. And I'd put in instead of a and I would have ABC instead of a, I would put B and I'd get it till I got the answers.

Stephen Drew: So then I could get the certificate, go to my boss and go, there you are. I know the pick up a box and I could just carry on with work.

The Value of Practical Skills Over Certificates
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Stephen Drew: And I think there is a little bit of this culture online at the moment where it's about more about obtaining the certificates rather than obtaining the value or the lesson than, so do you get what I mean?

Stephen Drew: So it's it's more, I'm more interested, if you've got the ability to do [00:37:00] something So let's apply it to a practical means. So I'm less interested about the certificate for the BIM course in the prospective candidates who are in recruitment, right? But I'm more interested in their ability. And so some of the best BIM specialists that I've met have been BIM.

Stephen Drew: An architectural designer and I'll meet them in recruitment and they haven't got the bells and whistles, but I'll go meet them in person. We'll talk about their portfolio. And they're like, I set up the BIM execution plan. I generated this script. I saved hundreds of man hours on this project. And I have a passion for BIM.

Stephen Drew: And I'm like. You are the real deal and that's the person that usually is underpaid and then gets a good job And they get that role and as a BIM coordinator or BIM manager or whatever. I'll take a breather That was like my little rant, like we all have our little rants here But that's the thing that frustrates me at the moment.

Stephen Drew: Is this chasing online certificates rather than [00:38:00] the real value which is Your own personal development, personal learning. And when you were talking about that earlier, gamifying it is, it must be, I'm sure that's one of the things that you're trying to accomplish as well. But how do you feel about my mini rant on online learning?

Stephen Drew: Your mini

Baron of BIM: wrap has just cracked open the safe of Bumdora's box. You realize that? So it's time to load up that Bumzooka because I'm ready to use it.

Stephen Drew: Are we loading up? I might have to get like a sound effect on this, just purely for you, we need Arnie in Commander, the sound effect when he's throwing the grenades in.

Baron of BIM: Yeah. So look, to answer that question, it's quite simple. Not that Arnie is either on my side. You're right. If you look at LinkedIn lynda. com was now, which is what LinkedIn, it's all about getting a certification. And unfortunately, that worked a few years back. Now, the impact of change and organizations adopting change, certification means nothing.[00:39:00]

Baron of BIM: And, as I always say, everyone in the industry can call themselves an expert. You, what's the saying? I've forgotten how to say it again. Let me try it again. Everybody in the industry can call themselves an expert. Could call themselves an expert. A certification will only lead to you thinking that you're an expert if you cannot transfer your skills to the rest of the party within the industries or learners.

Baron of BIM: Now, what we did at Exceptional Boom is we broke it into three tiers, and I have a very heavy martial art background, so I like that. A lot of people say to me, oh, but boom is not martial arts. No, it's not. It's a new way of thinking. So if you want to be a ninja, that's fine. We'll start you off with the appreciation of the scope of the fundamentals that are required to understand the software may be an architectural estimating or construction.

Baron of BIM: That's great. The learner then gets opportunity to learn the fundamentals of the software in tier one, and you can remain a ninja for as long as you want. That could be the manager. [00:40:00] I don't care. But then we take you to another tier. We take you to tier two, which we call you the boom warrior. That boom warrior, you've just been graded.

Baron of BIM: That grading is a gamification process and that tier allows you to focus on the principles as well as the practices of bi. Looking at the different protocols around the world, identifying BIM management tasks that are applicable, let's say to the design let's estimating construction process.

Baron of BIM: The whole level of BIM worry, if you wanna call it that, or tier two, is to aim at developing the learner's knowledge and the skill coordination interpreting digital standards. He writes not one exam. It's based on gaming for gamification. So it depends on how much time he's nurtured with other learners.

Baron of BIM: Has he mentored? Has he created notes? Has he gone to the best of the web and shared what links that he's found on the web? And he's learned how many hours did he spend on a case study? Where did he get that case study? Did he [00:41:00] share it with other learners? And with gaming, you can work your way up the ranks and you can see how far that person is up the ladder, and that forces you to try and challenge him.

Baron of BIM: Then we get to that tier three for me is the Bambushido. He's that Samurai, he's learning about examining how architects. Should engage with guidelines with various stages of client versus architect perspective. We look at the estimator and the construction techniques and how procurement versus operation is seen and the understanding the importance of a quantity surveyors role within levels of measurement, levels of information need, whatever his job may be, but most important is leadership skill.

Baron of BIM: And that's where we started the rules of engagement. We don't talk about software. We don't talk about companies. We don't talk about previous projects. We talk about the nuts and bolts that drives and encourages learners to [00:42:00] understand leadership and using the social mechanics, using the learning dynamics that we've given the users within this compelling gamification experience, it now allows you to tap into the learner's emotions and demonstrates easily the best activities of the audience that you want to engage with.

Baron of BIM: So that, that's pretty much what I'm sure has answered your question.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I like it. I think it's I, and as well, it's interesting because courses and online, I feel like as well, it's a two way relationship, but the course. You can only do so much as the person puts in as well, it's gamification, but it requires someone to play and learn within the game.

Stephen Drew: And that's why I think as well, and that's what I appreciate about what you're doing with exceptional BIM is that, if you're going to put in it, if you're going to build this, except, this platform for exceptional BIM, which offers a lot of value, the reality is you rely on someone to participate.

Stephen Drew: And I think that's the kind of the interesting thing at the moment with [00:43:00] these kinds of online free courses and getting certificates is the point is. You've built this for people to learn from and the reality is you probably couldn't do what you're on about if someone's on their iPhone in the background, doing the laundry and it's all about personal growth.

Stephen Drew: And I think that's the thing that I would like, especially anyone listening here to take away from even our chat or this little part of the chat is that actually, I think it's about what. What you put in is what you get out. And the point is that when I was in Waitrose stacking the shelves, I learned nothing about health and safety and I probably pulled my back and that's why it aches now.

Stephen Drew: And that's why I'm hobbling around and all this stuff because I didn't learn. I didn't learn. And I found that the point is, it's like anything is that a self health. Book is only as good as if you learn it or what you gain from it and going to see a BIMS as an online free BIMS course is only as good as what you gain from it, of course, there's content value, but I think the word I'm looking for is accountability on both sides.

Stephen Drew: You're accountable [00:44:00] for providing the software and gamifying, but the person that's using it has got to be accountable as well, and I think that's the kind of. The interesting bits where we're at the moment, where I think as well, and one of the things that I've learned on the architecture social, for instance, Vaughn is that I can do all the videos in the world for how to send CVs and portfolios and use the techniques that.

Stephen Drew: I believe in that we'll get people a job and I've seen that and people that do it do get results. And I think it's like personal training is that, you've got to turn up to the lessons and you've got to do it. But if you don't apply the things that I'm talking about, or if you don't participate, and if you don't learn, you won't get results, you'll be like me.

Stephen Drew: When I was years ago, when I used to go to the gym, I used to go I don't know, once or twice a month, not properly serious. And then I'm like. Oh, I haven't really gained any muscles this month. It's because I haven't gone, I haven't done anything. And I think that's why it's definitely worth checking out.

Stephen Drew: But is that a fair comment, do you think?

Baron of BIM: Yeah, I think, in my closing too, [00:45:00] I think I could probably say, the same, but I think we, if we look at how technical transfer, transformation, whether you've embraced it during lockdown or not, yeah, it's indeed it's inevitable. And at the same time.

Baron of BIM: The company that you work for or use an individual, you need to redefine yourself or even reset yourself. It's as much of the old grind can only be automated, leaving us with our training and experience. And making that high level decision and the tweaks without the donkey work behind it is

Intro: absolutely,

Baron of BIM: Great.

Baron of BIM: But, this all sounds great when you say that, yet these new roles, these new digital workflows, the standards that we're looking at, it's going to be a tough change. And no one likes, as I said, no one likes instant change. It's going to have to be, the change is imminent if you like it or not, just, it really depends on how you adopt or doubt, so, I'll go [00:46:00] again by the same thing and I want to say that, let 2021 not be a year of hope, it's about learning, be exceptional, don't want to be exceptional though, we provide copious amounts of free learning, this year, it's super exciting for us please If anyone is listening, we've got some really exciting new content coming.

Baron of BIM: A lot of it's free across the disciplines and whatever path you choose, just make sure you choose the one that's going to set your destiny for this new world that we're living in.

Stephen Drew: Brilliant. I think that's great. And so we're approaching around the 50 minute mark. So before I, cause I think, and now it's quite a nice wavelength and we've talked about, so what we've covered here, we've covered QS, we've covered.

Stephen Drew: The role of an architect. We talked about that. We've talked about learning. I've gone off on a passionate tangent about my experience in sup supermarket stacking shelves, and we're gonna save the best for last.

The BIM Bazooka and Personal Background
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Stephen Drew: So let's talk a bit about the Bim Zika at the moment, right? Okay. So what made you this?

Stephen Drew: Obviously different cultures, [00:47:00] different walks of life and different things. Personally, I don't, I'm in the uk. I don't own any weapons. This is a different kind of culture, the sharpest thing I've got is in my house is a kitchen knife. And even then I don't even know how to use it.

Stephen Drew: Do you know what I mean? But so I'm going to put on here the picture of you, which I think is fantastic. And I hope anyone that is going to watch this. And you know what, I'm going to attempt to call this like the late night show because of the tone of the conversation the late night show, but what I'm going to do is I'm going to put the picture of you with your your bim bazooka on the front.

Stephen Drew: Okay. So more specifically than why you got it, I want to know what made you call it the bim bazooka? Is it your past? You must be the only like in my head, you're Arnold Schwarzenegger kicking ass in on the, in the war zone and you're a bimmer. That's insane. That's a, that's two worlds, which I thought would never would marry.

Baron of BIM: No, sorry. My wife asked the same question. I still like to dress up in my army outfit. I served special forces as a [00:48:00] paratrooper, but hence the reason not all the equipment I had on me there was me owned. I don't own any of that. I left it behind when I left the army. I also own a filming business and we shoot different scenes and sets where anyways from extreme sports and that and having access to the Cape Town film industry for me is absolutely still one of my hobbies and passion that we set up green screens.

Baron of BIM: We, we big into families, leadership growth skills with kids. We believe that too many kids sit on screens. My kids have their own. Channel four skills, sports development, and everything behind the camera is what builds you today with your it gives you your status of who you are. It teaches you to,

Baron of BIM: it gives you that opportunity. See, they aren't really being bugged by my kids. If they're right, Don't worry, we'll tell them. They won't be long. We won't be long. I think the phone. If I have a [00:49:00] passion for forming a media. So it's the reason why I have a lot of props. And,

Stephen Drew: There was a part of me that wanted it to be real.

Stephen Drew: So we smashed, I should, you know what, instead of all our little swearing and everything early on banter, I don't want to censor that. But I might censor out the fact that the BIMZUK is actually a prop. I want to dream. I want it to be real. But I respect that. And look, I

Baron of BIM: haven't shot one.

Stephen Drew: Wow. There you go. I served in the army, and it's a different I've never. So look, it's important. I, I respect you for doing that. And it's, I guess now the myths then. And now I know. It's all you, Saad.

Baron of BIM: As

Stephen Drew: my wife says, why did

Baron of BIM: you always have to jump out of a perfectly good working airplane?

Baron of BIM: Never get that.

Stephen Drew: You know what? We're going to put it on the cover. I wonder if I have one person saying you're glorifying weapons and I'll be like, you didn't listen to the 52 minute mark. It's a prop.

Baron of BIM: You got it.

Stephen Drew: Brilliant.

Conclusion and Contact Information
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Stephen Drew: So for anyone that is not familiar with you, so there's a few places they can find [00:50:00] you.

Stephen Drew: You're on the Architectural Social. And I believe your title is, if you type in the Baron, you will find you on them. You're on LinkedIn. As well, aren't you? So Vaughan Harris, we're going to put all the details in here. You can click the links. We'll make it really easy for anyone, but they can reach out to you there.

Stephen Drew: And as well as that, you've got your own company websites. I imagine. Do you want to let us know how everyone can get in contact with you?

Baron of BIM: Yeah, I think it's exceptionalbim. com, pretty much straightforward, you can leave a message, it'll come to me through some channel or another.

Stephen Drew: Amazing. All right, fantastic.

Stephen Drew: All right, Barrett, we need to get you back at some point. Maybe when the maybe it will pick up a particular topic. I really appreciate everything that you've put online. I really appreciate it being part of Exceptional BIM and here's to An exceptional 2021. We'll see how it goes. Thank you so much, Van the Baron.

Stephen Drew: And thanks for your time. See you later. [00:51:00] Cheers.