Building Your Personal Brand: Mastering LinkedIn for Architecture Professionals

Building Your Personal Brand_ Mastering LinkedIn for Architecture Professionals
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[00:00:00]

Stephen Drew: Hello everyone. Get your LinkedIn profile ready. Going live on LinkedIn. It's the place to be. Love LinkedIn. Hate LinkedIn. It's useful. I should know. I've made a lot of money from LinkedIn and I'm going to tell you a few ideas, but I've also got a guest from the industry who's going to give you relevant advice too.

You don't want to just hear from me for an hour. You're fed up with me already. Okay. 12 seconds.

Hello everyone and welcome to this live stream special on YouTube. We're on Facebook, you're watching the replay, maybe listening to it on Apple. Or maybe you're listening to it on, I don't know, whatever platform, Spotify. But one place where this is a lot is LinkedIn. And if you know anything about me, I might have been in your feed.

I might be [00:01:00] there, I might be in front of you and you're like, This guy! I always see him. And you might see other people as well. LinkedIn is a fantastic, powerful tool. And I'm here with people. Oh my God. It's so late. With a person that's an expert in this space, which has been in architecture and the built environment doing marketing to share their input on LinkedIn as well.

So you get professional, but I was going to say you get, you hit two birds with one stone, you get a professional. Over this side, and you get me. And on that note, we're going to introduce the fantastic Beatrice Ronchetti, Ron ketty, but spelled Ron ketty. Beatrice, how are you today?

Beatrice Ronchetti: Hi, Stephen. Hi, everyone. Thanks so much for having me. I'm very well, very excited to be here.

Stephen Drew: Now, I'm very excited you're here and there's nothing I enjoy more, that's how sad I am, according to my partner as well, than talking about LinkedIn. Now, before we talk about [00:02:00] LinkedIn, and before we talk about what a personal branding means and all that stuff. Let's tell everyone about your history and, all that built environment, good stuff and marketing.

Oh, cool.

Beatrice Ronchetti: I trained as an architect and then pretty soon in my career, I fell in love with the marketing side of architecture. I had, in house roles. I was a Broadway Malian as well. And then I went agency side, I was with an agency that just focused on the built environment.

So I've never really left the industry, because I do love it. And then about three and a half years ago, I set up my own consultancy. And now we're specializing in LinkedIn and personal branding, specifically for businesses and professional, professionals in the property sector.

Stephen Drew: Fantastic. Thank you for sharing that. I just love it as well. We can get experts from all around the world, but it really helps, isn't it? Working and trainers and architects working in the industry because you know the [00:03:00] joys, but you also know the troubles we have and the deadlines and the culture and stuff.

So really cool. And I'm excited to go into it. But before we go into it, I know we're going to talk about LinkedIn. I touched upon the word personal branding and it was one of these things where I'm like, what do people mean? Is that something I should take seriously? Or is that a little bit of marketing jargon?

I'm not too sure. What's your opinion on what that is first and foremost?

Beatrice Ronchetti: Yeah, I'm glad you asked. Actually, what do you think personal branding is? Because I think most people are going to have a similar answer, possibly. It could be the right one.

Stephen Drew: Personal brand. At first, I wouldn't know if that means to do with my work, talking about me as a professional, or if it means am I on Instagram sharing, images of me having a beautiful lunch today in Soho. I'm not too sure. I wouldn't know at first. I'm guessing it's to do with your personal persona [00:04:00] online in the professional environment.

But you tell me, is that right or wrong?

Beatrice Ronchetti: Yeah, there's a popular definition that goes around, and they normally attribute it to Jeff Bezos. I don't know whether he actually said it, but it's a really good definition, and it basically says that, your personal brand is what people say when you're not in the room. And this isn't, positive or negative connotation, but it just means the information that people have about you, the perception they have about you, but also their ability to communicate that to other people.

So you can see it's twofold. It's first of all, they need to have Some information, the right information, and they need to understand it. It needs to be super clear because then they are able to repeat that back to somebody else. And we all have a personal brand. That's the catch.

Even if you don't do anything about it, even if you're not active online, even if you're just like, do you know what, that's none of my business. We will all have come in contact with hundreds and thousands of, industry peers, clients, [00:05:00] colleagues, perhaps somebody met us when we were in a previous role or working on a specific type of project.

So they will think of us as, I don't know, an architect that specializes in, I don't know, residential. And perhaps since then, you've moved on or maybe there's other things that you do, other services that you provide. But if you don't cultivate that brand, if you don't take ownership of it, you don't make sure that message is sent.

If the information is clear, is accurate, then obviously people will just have the wrong information.

Stephen Drew: Okay, because I've got your questions from before. And if you, if I look distracted, it's because I didn't schedule the questions at the start. What am I like? My personal branding is chaotic and unorganized, but you know what? I can do some things better. I joke around, but then, so to answer this question, what happens if you don't cultivate a brand?

So in your opinion, then. If you're not thinking about personal branding, because we get, people get busy, architects, very busy, got deadlines, all this stuff. What happens then if you [00:06:00] let it drift?

Beatrice Ronchetti: yeah, I think there's three possible scenarios. One, people have the wrong information about you. And they might come to you with the wrong type of opportunity. They might think that you're able to help with something, but actually that's not something, you can help with anymore, or you've changed your career path, whatever that might be.

And then the other option is that your, Just not, people just don't remember that you exist in the nicest possible way, but no opportunities are going to come your way because you're just nowhere to be found, and especially online with all the noise that, that we've got, then obviously it becomes, quite difficult to stand out.

And, yeah, so I think that's what happens. That clarifying piece needs to be there for you to make it absolutely clear. This is what I can do for this group of people. And then opportunities will naturally gravitate towards you because, you become a natural choice at that point.

Stephen Drew: Fair enough. Makes complete sense. I do [00:07:00] agree. There's so much noise happening. There's so many channels. There's so much stuff that it is easy to get forgotten. And I do believe that you have to try and cut through the noise. I think that's really important. We have had one or two things that came in.

We've had Mr. or Mrs. Anonymous. I always say that. Someone that hasn't said that they accept their name, who's probably laughing at my expense. How dare you? I'm only joking. That's all good. But we had an interesting question from, Anamol, who is a business developer, works for Hyphen Architect, that has an interesting question.

It says, what was the biggest difference comparing personal branding 20 years ago to how people perceive personal branding now? Maybe it's got to do with, like you say, LinkedIn, things online, different channels, different medium. But what do you think, in your mind, that's changed over the last few years?

Beatrice Ronchetti: Yeah, I think that's a great question because actually personal branding is something that even probably about five, 10 years ago, people [00:08:00] associated with, career progression. So I need to find a new job and therefore I need to do this thing called personal branding. Whereas actually in more recent years.

Especially in the B2B sector, it's become something that's almost mandatory and it's not related to you, looking for a new role. It's about elevating your profile in the industry, being recognized as an expert, having your voice. And on one hand, it's become easier because we've got all these online channels at our fingertips.

We've got LinkedIn. But also I would say with the pandemic, it's become So common to network online and to build relationships online, a lot more than before. And so then personal branding has had an even bigger push at that point.

Stephen Drew: got it. Okay, I agree. And the one thing I would say as well, like I remember 2006, the zine was just rocking up, and that was new. But the way that things were before was it was old school, it was like a magazine came in, and it was more company branded. And you'd have a few people in there, but it was like this company, this [00:09:00] project, whereas I think the way things are now, It totally opens it up, isn't it?

Like my LinkedIn started with a few hundred connections and it builds up from there. You can get your, you can get your name out in different ways. You don't have to just know an editor at the company. There's other ways to do it, isn't it? Which I think wasn't around years ago. Would you agree with that sentiment or?

Beatrice Ronchetti: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, especially now as we're becoming more and more digital and social as in social media, people really crave that human content, which is why when you start using your own profile, the whole people buy from people listen to people talk to people. And that message becomes so much stronger when it comes, from a person.

And I think most platforms are keen to promote that. Yeah,

Stephen Drew: in the background, I took an opportunity to schedule a few more questions as we go along. But thank you as well. to animal in the audience who actually says great answer [00:10:00] thank you for explaining do you think recruiters oh this one might be for me the neglect personal branding with education grades and experience what's with more personal branding or grades I think that more of a general thing going on this.

Anyway, you really tested me live here. Grades. I think grades can, I have where I come from in terms of my background. I don't really mention I've got a 2. 1 anymore per se. I do think that education really helps at the start of your career. And it's always there if someone wants to ask where you went, but as you go further in your career, I think it's more about your role and responsibilities.

And maybe there's an opportunity on LinkedIn, to develop your personal brand by showcasing the projects you go on, going to a site visit. That's what I would do as an architect, as a recruiter though. That's a whole. Different Kettle of Fish. Most recruiters try to hide information.

It's not about sharing. It's not about talking about uncomfortable [00:11:00] things. And maybe some are not from the industry. So I'm going to get in a lot of trouble if I, if I keep bashing recruitment happen when my business does a lot of that, however, I think it's an ongoing thing. I tell you one thing on that note of it, like recruiters putting stuff out, or even architects, the one big thing, and then maybe a little bit of a segue, and Beatrice, is that I find some people are scared to share things online.

Because, what if I say something wrong? What if it gets taken out of context? What if someone answers and they don't reply? And I think sometimes that kind of frigidness actually stops things happening. It actually stops people progressing. And I think people get nervous or overthink it. Would you agree with that sentiment?

Beatrice Ronchetti: 100%. And in fact, I'll tell you two things. I'm jumping a bit ahead now. I don't know if we were going to talk about this later, but one of the biggest blockers when it comes to being active on LinkedIn, when I ask people what's preventing you, normally there's time. I [00:12:00] don't have time. Confidence. I don't want to look silly.

And that is the biggest one. People are, of course, worried of, saying silly stuff in front of their peers. But I think especially when I work with employees, and so when I go in house and I train the teams to be more active on LinkedIn, There's always a lot of, I don't wanna say fear, but yeah, discomfort around, what can I talk about?

I'm now the ambassador of my brand. I need to be very careful. And that's true. You obviously, you're representing the brand, so you want to align with, the message that the brand is trying to put out. There you are, think about your positioning as an employee of that brand. And so I actually introduced as part of my workshops.

Comms guidelines that I liaise with the head of marketing with the business beforehand so that then I can provide that tool to employees. Because there is a lot of fear around that. And I think there's obviously, you're putting yourself out there. You feel a bit like you're on a stage, you're talking.

So you're very conscious about the message that you put out there. I think [00:13:00] some platforms are quite, can be quite scary because, people get attacked and there's keyboard warriors and all of that. I would say in general, LinkedIn, there isn't much politics on LinkedIn. It's probably the only platform that is Purely professional.

During lockdown, I think people were posting lots of photos of babies and animals and because that's what we did, right? And LinkedIn didn't like that, actually. So it started penalizing posts that were too, had content that was too personal. So they're really trying to keep LinkedIn Professional.

So on the one hand, I would say it's a fairly safe platform if you're going to venture out somewhere, especially if you're going to talk about your work. But I do agree. And it comes from having, a plan in place, some guidelines, some tools to help you feel safer when you're talking on there.

Stephen Drew: Makes complete sense. And don't worry about the order. We're getting the interactivity from the audience and I think that's like the whole thing of it. You think it's gonna go one way and the [00:14:00] script goes out the window. But we

Beatrice Ronchetti: love that. Improvising.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, you've got to freestyle. The other thing I was going to add that I see a lot of people doing, and I've done it myself, especially with Instagram, the Architecture Social Instagram, it's work in progress.

I'm a little bit better with LinkedIn. Where I'm going with this though, is that Thing online, people are trying to do out this stuff. I think they get really psyched up to do one or two posts. It doesn't go as far as they want. Or maybe it did okay. Maybe you get that one hit wonder. But then people give up.

They don't continue. They don't engage in the dialogue. And I think it's a bit naive to think that's going to travel really far. And actually, it's about putting content out two or three, four times, constantly scheduling things in. As much as I hate it. As much as I plan in, I have to try. I always try to get the Architecture Social podcast out at 8am every Tuesday when the season's going.

Do you agree with scheduling consistency as part of a [00:15:00] marketing strategy for personal branding?

Beatrice Ronchetti: Yes, definitely. So consistency is key, both in terms of frequency and also in terms of the content you put out. Speaking to that initial message about personal branding, you want your positioning to be consistent because you want to build into that piece around clarity and making sure that people are absolutely clear at what you're about.

The algorithm. The algorithm likes you being consistent, showing up regularly, and it will reward you if you've been quiet and then you suddenly post, but just at the beginning, then it will want you to be consistent and actually you said something that is actually really good. The algorithm also likes you to post at the same time on the same day each week.

So you say you post on a Tuesday, in the morning every week. That's probably helping your posts. It's not the magic trick. There's lots of factors that play into making a post successful. But actually, the little quiz for you, [00:16:00] how, much do you think a page, how quicker does a page grow?

If you post once a week, compared to pages that post less, does it make no difference? Maybe it

Stephen Drew: Huge difference. I give you do once a week. It'll go up by four times compared to the other one. I'm guessing.

Beatrice Ronchetti: Seven.

Stephen Drew: Oh, there you go.

Beatrice Ronchetti: Seven times. Yeah. So that's to say, especially for people that are looking to get started, you don't have to post five times a week, seven times a week. You can start with once a week. It will already make a big difference. Especially again, if you're not, if you're not a poster and you're trying to get your confidence up, aim for that.

And comment, engage with other people's content, people that you know, people that perhaps you feel a bit safer engaging with, but the algorithm will pick that up as consistency, and that is the big thing, being consistent, so not giving up too soon.

Stephen Drew: Yeah. Fair enough. Very interesting. Now, Devil's Advocate, I have mixed opinion. I'm really going off [00:17:00] script here. And I know that we're live. It's not fair, but I have mixed opinion about when people can talk about the algorithm. And there is an element of algorithm truthfulness, because I think a really good case example is how Instagram just completely drops the focus on pictures because it's like reels.

We want TikToks. We want reels. We want reels. I get it, the algorithm is there. At the same time though, I wonder if people chasing what the algorithm want, sometimes gets in the way of personal brand, should people just not care anyways? What do you think?

Beatrice Ronchetti: I think, I think it's a happy balance, I think there algorithm that, that play a part, but there's other things that, are more important. And like most things, it's always a combination of factors. I would say the most important thing is your content, how it resonates with your audience, how you're providing them with that content.

Because if the people that you're trying to talk to, which hopefully are the people in your network, Don't like to [00:18:00] consume content in the way that you're providing it to them, i. e. they want video, but you're giving them really long, plain text posts. They're not going to engage with it. There is no algorithm hack that's going to save you.

It's a mixture of things, but I would say the algorithm is the icing on the cake, I'd say. Probably not a popular opinion, but I would go as far as that. That's,

Stephen Drew: it's important to share these opinions and to try things so I, and this is what you know, so I will listen as well. Totally makes sense. On that point, so we've got a few things. Animal is having a bit of a giggle. Someone on Twitch, my goodness, normally we get the LinkedIn, but we got a Twitch, we got a Twitch, finally caught us live.

There you go. We're here. The Twitch algorithm might be kicking off. Yasmin dropped a really good question. Lovely Yasmin says, as someone who's trying to work on building their own personal branding, how can you stand out in this current environment, especially with so many platforms? [00:19:00] Like, where do we begin?

How do we go? What's your thoughts?

Beatrice Ronchetti: that's a great question. I would say audience. You have to think about them and the people you're trying to reach. So figure out where your audience is hanging out. Normally, if you're in property, you're a B2B and you're in a B2B sort of sector. LinkedIn is a great place. to be because, if you're targeting, if you're an architect, but you're targeting, homebuyers that want their house redesigned, you're probably looking more at the B2C market and it's probably, private individuals that are going to look at, pictures.

And so Pinterest and inspiration. So probably LinkedIn won't, Reach them as quick, but if you're in the B2B space, LinkedIn is the preferred sort of lead generation, networking platform. So that's the first question to ask. Second question, how do you, stand out? Firstly, content shared by individuals.

Performs, I think it's eight times better than content shared by business pages. So [00:20:00] your personal profile, your personal brand is a great asset that you have. Your own voice will cut through the noise, especially in a platform that has a lot of corporate cons. Second thing, third thing, once again, audience.

You really need to take the time to understand them. What challenges are they facing? How can you help them? Perhaps, in your network, there's somebody that is looking. Exactly for the solution that you're offering for the skills that you have, but you need to make sure that they're able to make that connection.

So if you put yourself in their shoes and take the time to really understand how you can add value to them, then. The message will resonate, quite strongly with them.

Stephen Drew: very good. Very good advice. I think so. And I want to just expand upon that because I didn't know what the heck that meant at first. B2B, you're talking business to business, whereas B2C is business to consumers. B2C would be [00:21:00] like, I need some, if I'm doing single dwellings or whatever, if I do that kind of stuff, I should probably get on Facebook, get on all this stuff to try and attract people to use me as an architect.

But B2B is a different league, right? Where you just, you're trying to get the attention of, I'm guessing, real estate developers, clients, stuff like that. Is that correct?

Beatrice Ronchetti: Correct. So say that you design offices, you're probably targeting corporate occupiers or businesses that are looking for, a space for their team. So think about whether you're trying to sell to another business or to a person.

Stephen Drew: Fair enough. It makes complete sense. More of a statement than a question because we covered it. But Animal says, why should I care about the algorithm when we're posting? Personally speaking, I post when I want and what I feel like posting. Fair enough. However, think about that seven times that Beatrice said to do it once a week.

You're gonna be seven times. So I think you're not [00:22:00] wrong. I get it. I've been there too. Sometimes I'm scheduling stuff and I'm like, I can't be bothered. But it's true when I start posting, because LinkedIn, we all have that graph. goes down. I always think that you've got to be out there because Even though I like some of my stuff, I was talking about web design with a colleague the other day.

And I was like, don't think people are just going to wander to your website. You got to really just get your statement. Cause it's fine to do up the pages in the website and I get it, but it's going to take a long time for SEO and people generally don't stumble upon that stuff. I think it's the biggest shortcut ever is plugging in social media.

To get people going to your work, see your stuff. Would you agree with that, Beatrice? The website, the platforms. Yep.

Beatrice Ronchetti: tend to like, [00:23:00] you sharing content that makes users stay on the platform. And also if people are on LinkedIn, often they don't like clicking and going off to somewhere else because that's their LinkedIn time, their scrolling time, whatever that might be.

And so actually, using, Your post to share information, to share that content. If people are intrigued, if they're interested, if you've hit a spot with them, they will go to your website. They will, you won't even need to say go to my website because it's about capturing their attention and speaking once again, to their pin, pain points, to, to their interests.

Stephen Drew: Makes complete sense. Thank you for giving me, basically agreeing with me on that because I don't fancy doing all the redesign of the pages. Always reminds me of that when sometimes people in architecture, especially students, they go, sometimes they go, Oh, I'm not getting the, the feedback I want.

I'll just redo my portfolio. And it's actually like there was nothing wrong with the first portfolio. You just needed to [00:24:00] send more applications out. You needed to do more outbound work. You didn't get in front of enough people. Don't waste your time on that. You should do it. It's the same principle, isn't it?

It's about outbound. Okay, cool. Now, I know we've been jumping around, it's late in the evening, and for everyone I'm not drunk, this is a non alcoholic beer, but I'm enjoying moving around. The thing is though, the list, I'm not too sure where we are anymore. I think

Beatrice Ronchetti: neither.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, maybe I don't think we've covered this, but like where to start, right?

So maybe I can give one or two top tips. You can give top two tips. I think the easy one is start doing a post. So my top tip, especially as an architect, whether you're a director, whether you're an architectural assistant, an architect, If you go out on site, take a picture, do a post of it, showcase your work.

If you've done something in the office, try to involve them. Most companies probably would really enjoy that. And I think, actually think, what would people like to [00:25:00] see? Probably the stuff you do in industry is actually interesting to someone, maybe a bit more junior in their career. Or other people in other kinds of companies.

I think that people struggle going, what the heck should I put on there? And it's actually what you do in your nine to five that people are curious about. But what do you think, Beatrice, is that a good piece of advice? Or do you have a few more as well?

Beatrice Ronchetti: Yeah, definitely. I think that's great advice and I think, it doesn't have to be rocket science. There's lots of opportunities for you to share what you do as a professional and to provide people with that clear information, adding value, all of that we talked about, how you want to be perceived.

I would say, however, that taking the time to really understand What you want to be known for, who do you want to be known by, and how you can add value to them, how can you help these people, is worth taking the time to understand. And I've got some templates that I can share with people, feel free to [00:26:00] drop me a DM, I'll send them over to you.

But it doesn't have to be, a really long winded explanation. Sometimes it's just about taking the time to really understand that because then that can become your North Star when you're like, Oh, what do I post? Go back to that. What message are you trying to put out there? How are you trying to position yourself?

Perhaps you want to be seen as an expert in, I don't know, sustainability, for instance. And then all of your site photos or the events you go to, they all feed into that message. It's going to be a lot easier for people to come up with ideas and inspiration. I would say,~ um, ~there's a useful tool on my, website.

It's basically, a quiz. Who doesn't love a quiz with a personalized report at the end? It's a very simple tool. But basically you can go on there, take the quiz. It takes less than five minutes and it will ask you questions about how you use LinkedIn, your profile, your network, et cetera. And then it will send you a report straight into your inbox, giving you a score and explaining where [00:27:00] your strong areas are and where you could do something different, will give you some advice.

And this is quite useful because especially if you're starting on the LinkedIn journey, you can take this now. And then perhaps. Thanks. Implement some stuff, take it again in six weeks, two months, see how that score has changed. So that, that's a little fun tool for people.

Stephen Drew: Brilliant. Fantastic. Another way to learn about LinkedIn is look at my profile and see what I do well and but also see all the mistakes I do and don't do them. But on that point, we had a bit of fun before we talked and you mentioned very kindly that you would look at Profiles. And I think you're going to say maybe before we even go on that, that you were actually going to offer that to maybe one or two people who participate or follow up with you afterwards.

You're going to give a customized,

Beatrice Ronchetti: Yeah, correct.

Stephen Drew: Wow. Would you want to say about that quickly?[00:28:00]

Beatrice Ronchetti: yeah, sure. So I don't know how many people are live here, so I'll just say that the first three people that send me a DM on LinkedIn Say something like, Architectural, Social, whatever you want. And I will happily, review your profile, for free. So take me up on the offer.

Stephen Drew: what an offer. First three people do it, right? But no more than three. We've got to earn a living here. We need to charge for pieces on architecture thing as well. We have to know our value. Pay for people's time. But three, okay, cool. However, we're a bit of fun now. Okay. I'm going to throw myself in the gauntlet.

Okay. I'm going to quickly before I do that, because I've got to check my LinkedIn, because I got messages in the corner. I don't want to get anyone's GDPR and stuff. I just realized if someone sends me something quite, sensitive, I don't want

Beatrice Ronchetti: What kind of conversations do you have on

Stephen Drew: Oh, not that interesting, but I'm involved in recruitment.

So I wouldn't want anyone who's thinking of a job to go that. [00:29:00] Okay. The coast is clear. The coast is clear. So here's my profile. We got a little bit of a curve ball cause I did have a banner there, but we've gone live. So now I've got a live banner, which is cool, but the rest of it, I'm yours. Feel free to cut me up.

What have I done right? And what have I done wrong? Ha

Beatrice Ronchetti: I was telling Stephen, I was hoping his profile would be a bit worse so that I could, showcase all of my tips, but actually it's a very, it's a very well curated profile. So you've obviously got your banner, your photo. So yeah. I just want to tell people don't waste the space of the banner.

Use it. It doesn't have to be anything too detailed, but make sure that it gives people that arrive some information about you. Perhaps it's the types of projects that you work on. Perhaps it's you speaking at an event. Make sure that you use it. Actually, do you know what? Let's talk about the headline.

Because

Stephen Drew: Oh.

Beatrice Ronchetti: Developed.

Stephen Drew: this is the one that LinkedIn suggested I change when I'm being stubborn on. Go for [00:30:00] it.

Beatrice Ronchetti: I think that the first bit is absolutely correct. So I would say clarity, always, prioritize clarity. You want people to understand what you do. If you have a headline that's something like empowering professionals to reach their goals, that's That doesn't mean anything. I don't know what you do.

So if you're employed, name for company name because you're attached to that company. That's one of your assets, right? So that's perfect. Founder of Architectural Social, et cetera. Is there a reason why you have your Incredible,

Stephen Drew: I think my fragile ego. I think it is. I think I worked so long for them I put them in. But come on, say the truth. Do we really need them now? Do I really need them now?

Beatrice Ronchetti: I think, especially when you have, a page like yours, great following, I would say probably not.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, oh, the truth is out. Mistake number one. It's the subheader. I'm tripping up [00:31:00] already.

Beatrice Ronchetti: what you can do though, is provide that information in a way that's. Also easier to understand because I think there's probably some people that land on your profile, especially if you're, they're not necessarily from the sector that could be like, he obviously knows a lot of stuff, but they wouldn't be able.

So one piece of advice that I give people is layer your information. Don't stop at Founder of Architecture Social. Use pipes. It's that, there's probably a technical term for that. It's that sort of vertical line

Stephen Drew: The wall or the, I don't know, whatever, the break it, the gap. Yeah, okay. Put the vertical line.

Beatrice Ronchetti: After you've said founder of the Architectural Social, use that and add something more. Give people more information. I help architects, I don't know, find their dream job or I cultivate a hub of a knowledge hub where we talk all things architecture. Spell it out. That will be way more valuable to people landing on there because your page speaks for itself.

I think you're fairly famous in the industry, Stephen,

Stephen Drew: [00:32:00] I'm probably infamous. People can't get rid of me. That's probably more the,

Beatrice Ronchetti: But that's the first thing I would say. Okay. Do you want to keep going or have you had enough?

Stephen Drew: Come on, give me one more, give me one more faux pas. That was fun. That one was bang on. Alright, what's the next

Anything stand out? I know one. I know a big one. I know a big one. Go on, what is it? See if we've got the same one.

Beatrice Ronchetti: I was going to say something on the about section.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I know! It's written in the third person. It's not personalized. It's a long thing. Okay. I know.

Beatrice Ronchetti: No, look, it's not bad that it's long because the space is there for a reason. I would say two things. Firstly, yes, I think using the first person is better because people just feel like you're talking to them, right? They've landed on here. They want to hear about you. And so if you explain it to them in your own voice, it works better.

The other thing I would say is. It doesn't matter if it's long, because as [00:33:00] we know, keywords count on LinkedIn. If you want to put information in there, it's great. As long as you make sure that the first sort of four lines are the most important information, because you see what you did there, you had to click see more.

If somebody really wants to know about you, they will click see more. But some people might not, they might just read and

Stephen Drew: 99 percent are not going in these paragraphs. No. Okay.

Beatrice Ronchetti: I, I think. The, as long as you have, what is the information that you really want people to have? This is non negotiable. If anything, I want them to know this, that I do this kind of work for this group of people. These are the problems that I solve, the results I achieve, whatever that might be. Put it in the top bit

Stephen Drew: Okay. Very.

Beatrice Ronchetti: going into more detail.

Stephen Drew: All right, very cool. Perfect. I love that. I am going to, if you can indulge me for two minutes, what I was going to say is, all the stuff I picked up, bar those, and I think a little bit of my ego needs to be brought in check for the titles, right? And I know it. I almost joke with myself about [00:34:00] it.

However, there's some things I've Stolen that I've seen from other people where I was like, that's good. And there's some things I've stumbled upon by accident and some things that I would just tell people to do if you don't mind. And maybe you can see, tell me if you agree or not. So the first thing is on LinkedIn, it's very easy.

You select the first. 4 or 5 things that people talk about. They've got hashtags here. It's a bit small, but basically you can select, let me bring it up here so that people can see properly, is that you can select what you talk about and actually LinkedIn sent me this. They're going to make all this stuff for creators.

For more people as well because I used to be on their creators program so people can do this stuff. So I selected that I talk about our architects. Okay, it's architecture, but architects, I'm, I'm covering both bases, interior design, architecture jobs, interior design, right? I put them in because it's another way people find you.

The other thing I see that people don't do, which I think is a missed opportunity, is something that you posted or a link to your website. Feature it here. I normally [00:35:00] mix it up. If I've got something topical, I put it there and then I fall back to my website, and you can select loads. If you go into here, you can add a post, add a newsletter, anything you've done.

I think it's a good way of just like sticking something on the top. If you're proud of an article that you've done. You can add it here. And then, there's a few that were done recently. Maybe I want to put this one on there. And I think that's just a really good thing to do. Of course, you need to do the content to begin with.

So you get your good stuff. But after, if you're doing this stuff every week, like you were saying, Beatrice, by the time, the end of the year, you're going to have what? Once a week, 50 weeks in the year, whatever it is. Sorry, it's late. 50 something. You're going to have 50 something things to pick from. And yeah.

I think that's really useful. The other thing that I saw, which people don't do, is that you can put links in where you've worked, and I know I've worked in too many places, but I saw someone do this the other day, and I thought I'm gonna take that idea.

Beatrice Ronchetti: absolutely. And especially,

Absolutely. But I think especially in a [00:36:00] sector like architecture where, probably most people have access to this incredible visual content, use it by all means. Because once again, even if people don't squint and read exactly where you've worked, they will see perhaps it's there.

It's residential buildings, perhaps it's, the types of projects that you work on and you're adding to the idea that they're building in their head. And make sure that you use captions, below the title there, you can add a little paragraph explaining even more. If people haven't had enough, you can tell them what you did on that project, why it was great.

So yeah, use all the spaces available to add information.

Stephen Drew: I think that's really cool, because I was like, why, these were the projects I worked at when I was at EPR. There it is. I was there. I didn't design it all. I was part of the team, and I'm part two, so I know my place in it. However, we're a visual industry. Attach an image makes complete sense.

You can see what you've done. That was when I've actually, that's something I've done this week. I was bored in bed. I put the images on and [00:37:00] afterwards I was like, it's just nice, the other thing I say is that the one thing, I need to update it now because I've, focused on trying to get reviews for the architects of social.

com you know when whenever I work with someone but I find that one of the things that people don't do is get recommendations on LinkedIn. Now, especially if you don't have a com domain, which I didn't for many years, I think what a fantastic way to get a little bit of credibility, by getting reviews from people that you've genuinely worked with and asking them to write a review.

I think most people. Get scared by that. But really, if you've done a decent service for someone, they're typically going to write you a review if you and if you say the truth, like it's gonna be useful for me, it would mean the world to me, and if not, everyone writes the review, okay, I, people get busy.

Some maybe some people don't want to, but most people will. And I think that Actually doing recommendations for other people, [00:38:00] but also for yourself, is really good. But what do you think, Beatrice? Missed opportunity that people don't do?

Beatrice Ronchetti: 100%. And I always say, you don't ask, you don't get. So if you expect somebody to wake up and think, Oh, I'm going to leave Stephen a review today. It's probably not, the first thing that comes into the mind, but especially as you said, if you know that they've had a great experience and this can be clients, but it can be people that have managed you or that you have managed, it can be, colleagues.

You Especially if you know that they'd be happy to do that, make sure you do ask because it's a bit like anything, Trustpilot, Amazon, when you're looking to buy a product or to go to a restaurant, other people's, Review of their experience. It does have an impact. And especially if you have that positive feedback, just sitting there, make sure that you bring it to your LinkedIn profile, 100%.

Stephen Drew: Very good. Very truthful. Now Beatrice, we have a quick curveball, if you fancy it. Our, one of our interactive lovely guests says, Stephen, can you look at my [00:39:00] profile and give me points to improve on? So maybe together we can now share the pain from me and we can inflict it on Animal for all the questions he's asked. Only joking, but I'm up for it. Are you up for it? Should we do that really quickly?

Beatrice Ronchetti: let's do it. Let's do it.

Stephen Drew: know I'm deviating from the script, but sometimes it's the best thing. And also, we're practicing what we're preaching, right? We'll do it live. It's like that meme online, do it live. Okay, here we go.

Maybe what we'll do is we'll pass the baton, between each other. So first thing, banner. On brand, it's the bad. It's so I think that's a tick. I know. I recently said featured in so and so as a company banner goes, what I'm going to say is that most people don't have a company banner. So you're already be in them.

But what do you think Beatrice good to have a company banner in them?

Beatrice Ronchetti: 100%. Remember that if you look at my profile, for example, you can have several images in there. It [00:40:00] doesn't mean that it's the right option for you. But for instance, looking at the profile, I don't know hyphen as a business. And so I wouldn't know what it does. So I think it's important that you give As much information as you can, but also think about what it is that you want people to do.

For instance, as you mentioned, award winning or perhaps you've launched a new website or you have a specific event that your whole business year revolves around. Stick it in there and you can change the banner. It doesn't have to be the same for six months. So change it depending on what you're trying to do.

But I would say tick because the space has been used, it's on brand. So that's great.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I think it's quite a friendly picture as well though. What do you think? Because people stress about pictures and sometimes I've seen a picture where I'm like, that really shouldn't be on LinkedIn. Someone's on the sun lounger, having a cocktail. I'm like, dude, this is not the time and the place. I think this is not a bad picture.

What do you think?

Beatrice Ronchetti: I think it's great because, [00:41:00] first of all, you can see the person. That's the whole point of the photo, the, lounger that you were talking about. Probably it's not just, not the best because of the context, but likelihood is maybe you couldn't even see the person's face. Perhaps they were wearing shades or perhaps they were too far away.

Sort of headshot or down to the bust is, the best sort of, format because the point is they need to be able to identify you. That's why that photo is there.

Stephen Drew: Okay. Very good. Let's dive deep in there. So business development manager at Hyphen. It's to the point, right? And that's not bad. Maybe there's an opportunity there based on what you're saying of putting the whole, the wall or whatever, and then saying business development at Hyphen, designing, leading, retail experiences, and high end.

Residential. I know the retail bear. I think they do residential as well. And I know they do data centers and stuff. Maybe that's what you should do. Taking on board what you said [00:42:00] earlier. Do you think

Beatrice Ronchetti: 100%. And a useful format to follow is, I, or we, if you're part of a business, help X, who are the people that you help or the sector, we help X achieve Y by doing Z. And that's the very detailed sort of format, but if you're trying to speak specifically to a niche, that's the best way to do it.

So you make it clear straight away when they land on your profile, that's who you can help and this is how by doing this or by using this product.

Stephen Drew: Very good. Very good. I thought the about, it hits the nail on the tin. Nail on the tin. What am I saying? I can't speak anymore. Nail on the head. Hyphen, it says expertise driving strategic business growth. Hyphen, I contribute to a multi million architectural and construction pipeline consisting of retail, commercial, mixed use, and logistics.

It's getting the sectors in there, which I quite like. It expands upon the bit we were talking about [00:43:00] earlier. Makes sense to me. I think it's okay. However, what does the LinkedIn guru think?

Beatrice Ronchetti: I think, always prioritize, clarity. So short sentences, very easy to understand. I often recommend not having, structured sentences where you have multiple parts to a sentence where you're trying to convey more than one topic. So I think it's great and it's first person. If I had to be uber critical, simplify it.

Maybe use. These are just shorter sentences, but more to explain exactly what it is that you do within the business and what the business does.

Stephen Drew: Fair enough. I think I might have to reword mine from third person to first person. Let's talk, let's talk about that though. Cause third person to me feels a bit like there's maybe an air of prestige about it, however, what I'm learning from a conversation, it's not very personal, is it?

It's a bit, it's a bit unpersonal.

Like Stephen's this and that,

Beatrice Ronchetti: that's perfectly fine because it's the [00:44:00] business who is talking, but you just said, that doesn't sound very personal. This is your personal profile. So it feels like it's something far removed from it.

Whereas really this is meant to be almost like your business card and your voice. It's your first interaction with a person often.

Stephen Drew: I agree what you're saying. Why I'm going is because I'm coming to the realization of, why I'm like, oh yeah, that makes sense. Okay, but that's no problem. It's all about going forward, isn't it? It's I'll change it. And I think it's that attitude people go, oh, I've been doing it wrong for ages.

I can't be bothered.

Beatrice Ronchetti: no, but is there something, holding you back? Is there something you're not convinced about changing to the. First person or

Stephen Drew: we'll just change it. I agree with you. So no, can makes, it makes complete sense. So I appreciate you doing that. I was going to say here though, when we go down. We talked about hyphen, maybe put in a link to the hyphen website here, and I was going to say the featured bit, maybe you get, but you can at least put hyphen website in there as well.

Getting the [00:45:00] links back, that could be another way, but I do like that. There's the graphic design from the podcast. That's really cool. And I quite like stuff like that. So I think it's not a bad effort. I'm just saying attach some more stuff to it. The bare bones are there, but what do you think Beatrice?

Beatrice Ronchetti: I agree. I think it's, it looks fairly complete and there's the visual side to it. And it's great that all the LinkedIn pages are linked, which means that the logos appear, because especially if it's, businesses that are well known maybe in the sector, that, that sort of visual element is really important.

And it's great. They've got obviously a video in there with, which links out. Just thinking about anything else I could add to the experience section is, I can't really, read, but, always make sure that you're really explaining what you did in that specific role, but once again, always go back to your audience.

And if your current positioning is, once again, let's say, sustainability expert. Make sure that your previous experience is framed so that all [00:46:00] of those skills come to the forefront. Where did you apply that in previous roles? And obviously don't make it up. It could be that you had a career pivot and that's just not possible.

But always write, your role description with that in mind. How did you achieve those results? What was your role? How did you apply those skills? Yeah.

Stephen Drew: I, no, that's really useful. I was just scrolling. Now the education's bang on. It's got everything there. I know you can't really read it, but trust me, it's all there skills, I think is another thing that people should do. I'm just gonna endorse you. I'm gonna take your word that, Figma.

I should probably have asked you. Normally, I, I. I, I do it from people I know, but you get your skills on there. Why not? You're a Revit expert. You should show it, shouldn't you? And people not going to find it. And also on the insider recruitment thing, I know it's not all about that, but people search by skills.

If you've used Revit, you should put it in there. If you've done high end residential stuff, you should put it in there. Your opportunities will come to you. Maybe a client comes to you. Maybe you get offered a job. Who knows? It's [00:47:00] Putting the stuff in is really useful. I always think, Beatrice, people are not mind readers.

If you don't tell them what you do, it's going to get missed. True. What you said, though, put too much. People might not get there anyways. Clear, concise, get the stuff in there. Put your skills on LinkedIn. If you know it or do it, put it on.

Beatrice Ronchetti: 100%.

Stephen Drew: I'm

Beatrice Ronchetti: And I think,

Stephen Drew: Sorry, I was gonna say I'm entering rant territory.

I'll have to shut up. Go on. What are you saying?

Beatrice Ronchetti: No, I completely agree. And I also think, skills endorsements are also a great way to, start conversation when it's happened more than once where. Somebody that maybe I was coaching on LinkedIn. And I said, ask for recommendations. It just started conversations with old contacts, old clients, old managers.

Oh, I didn't know that you were up to this and that. And it's a great way to reconnect as well. It's all about conversations and those contacts.

Stephen Drew: Think so. I think so. Every, and do you know what the good news is? Over the course of your career, it gets [00:48:00] easier. You've got more content. And the other thing is, that I've learned is, you don't need to worry about sometimes things being recent content. Sometimes, actually, they are. Talking about something you've done before is fine.

And also you can recycle content to an extent. You can put an old, you can put a new twist on something you've done before. That's absolutely fine. I think, that's something I'm learning as well. It's oh my gosh, if I'd done something a year ago, which is now still relevant, let's talk about it again.

People, it doesn't mean just because it's gone out once you can't do it. It's okay. To put things up again. Maybe not all the time too quick, but if this is a nice time period between, I think you can do that. But what do you think, Beatrice?

Beatrice Ronchetti: yeah, I, I think first of all, the best way to build a solid personal brand is to, Show up consistently where your audience hangs out, with the same consistent message. So that doesn't mean that you're saying the same thing, exact same thing, but the message has to be the same. That's the first thing.

Second thing is, when it comes to repurposing, definitely, because, unfortunately, we [00:49:00] all think that, People are looking at us all the time, spotlight syndrome. If I do this, everyone's going to see it. If I say that, everyone's going to, think about it. But sadly, the truth is that, there's so much content on there and people are very much focused on what they're saying.

So the likelihood that you share a specific project and then maybe two months later, you share it again. Likelihood that the exact same people will see it and remember it and think, Oh, they've recycled content. It is very low, but actually you're just increasing the reach of that content, making sure that other people are in front of it.

Especially if you grow your network, there will be different people in there that haven't seen that post before. So definitely the, don't think that you need to be coming up with brand new ideas, brand new posts all the time. Cause that's not really how it works.

Stephen Drew: Very good. Good for me to know as well. I'm gonna go back into the archives and have a little play around as well. I think the other thing I was gonna say before we wind down is that it's okay to fail, isn't it? Sometimes I do post, [00:50:00] which. Don't go as far as I think that's the weird thing.

Like sometimes I'm like, this is going to go far and it doesn't go far. And then sometimes I just. Knock something out that's on the top of my mind, not polished. I didn't think about it there. And then that goes semi viral or gets a little bit of a wind. And you're like, there you go. You and you, and it's just learning and seeing what gravitates, but the other.

Point I wanted to build on that is you're right. People are in their own bubble. You have to think about yourself. I'm in my own bubble. I know what I'm like. So how can you resonate with people? That's kind of part of the art form really, isn't it? And how relatable is the content you do? It's like me.

Oh my gosh. All right. But how can you get something that triggers people? So one quick one before we go on is that most job ads are written terribly. Terrible. I've written them before as well. Most of them are terrible. Most job ads go, we are looking for 10 years experience on residential and Revit. And [00:51:00] straight away, maybe there's an architect out there going, oh, I've got nine. I can't apply. I thought we're going to get 10, right? But actually, what do people do when they're looking for jobs? They're looking for a new opportunity. They're fed up with their work. They've been working too long. The commute's too long. So when you're speaking to people, you should speak about them.

Are you looking to work in a great design studio, which is down the road in Twickenham? I am. I'm interested. Work Life Color. We have flexible working. That's what I'm looking for. If you've got a bit of Revit, great, but we can train you. Okay. And if you write in that, if you write from the perspective of the person reading it, it can go further than from your perspective of what you need and what you want.

Do you, what do you think?

Beatrice Ronchetti: Yes, that is music to my ears. One of the things I say to clients all the time is, it's not about you, it's about them. And that's why I know I keep banging on about the audience. But that [00:52:00] is the most important thing because ultimately you're putting content out there for them. And I had actually a great moment where I was helping a client and just after three weeks of us working together, they landed a new project opportunity, exactly the kind of project that they were trying to attract.

And this client said to him, I saw your post and I thought. Oh my goodness, he gets it. He was literally talking to a specific issue that he was having in, in the industry and with the projects. And that filled me with joy because what we did with his content was really make sure that it spoke to the 5, 10, 100 problems that particular segment faces.

And then people feel heard. And they're happy to give you their time and read your post and read your content because you're actually providing information, solutions, they feel heard. And we've all experienced that, I think.

Stephen Drew: I think so too. Makes complete sense. Now I've been, [00:53:00] this has been quite intense. Cause you've had to do a little bit of teaching. You had to share some views. I challenged one or two, the algorithm in a nice way. It's conversation. I'm trying to learn things,

Beatrice Ronchetti: Of course.

Stephen Drew: It's not fair I get to ask all the questions.

I was going to say, do you have one or two questions for me? Can be about my marketing. Can be about LinkedIn. Can be about my business. What do you really want to ask me? And don't hold back. Let's do it live.

Beatrice Ronchetti: Okay. So what would be your, so say that after today, you had so much insight that you're like, I'm actually gonna, do more on LinkedIn, whatever, even though you've got an incredible, platform there. What would be your dream outcome from using LinkedIn?

Stephen Drew: The goal always is to actually generate business from him. And so people think sometimes about the metrics. I've got. 200, 000 views. Fantastic. It's actually, it is good. There's lots of [00:54:00] benefits will come from that. However, I think the more I do this, the question is, how much does that convert? And then when the conversion can be different for the business, it can be a new client, ideal, or a candidate, great, a job seeker.

But it can be different things as well. If you're a professional, it could be a job opportunity. It could be putting on someone's radar. How did, does your content convert into real life stuff? And where I think that. I've noticed that is okay, I run a business now. But when I was going up in my career, what I noticed is the more I was doing online, the more I was getting involved, passionate about my profession, I was Doing less of the interviews I was doing before and opportunities were coming to me.

And listen, I'm not amazing in that regard. I remember when I was a part one, I was doing the 2009 pandemic. I was sending a lot of applications and I sent something like six, seven hundred, something crazy, something silly. But I got a lot of interviews and I got a lot of rejection, a lot of [00:55:00] rejection. In the end, I was lucky I got a job I wanted.

But I've been there. I didn't have a network. I didn't have that support. I didn't have that experience. I had to do the stone cold interviews we all do. However, as my personal brand has come into it and being more online, people are starting to get more familiar. And of course, part of my business, I still call businesses up out of the blue and they're like, Oh my gosh, cold call.

Oh, of course I'm going to do stuff like that. However, the more and more I'm in the business, the more and more stuff I'm doing online, the more and more people go, Oh, I think I've seen you. And they give me five, 10 seconds. Oh, something comes in, and that really comes from putting stuff out on LinkedIn.

And also, mini confession, I do want to work in the Instagram and get that stuff coming up. One of the reasons I focus on LinkedIn, though, is that I get a lot of return, and I believe in it. Downside is sometimes like I [00:56:00] now I don't can't reply to all my messages, I need to get a bit more organized, we were giggling before Beatrice about, me scheduling things and I'm busy, that's a downside, and I'll work on that.

However, the upside is big. So that's the thing I focus on. LinkedIn is fantastic. However, I focus on how can I Reach out. How can this convert? How can this help me professionally? But also, I do enjoy doing stuff which I am passionate about. It's quite fun to be involved in the RIBA campaign before.

Wasn't direct money involved from that or anything, but it was great. However, we do need to talk. Last mini rank. I've gone on a tangent. We do need to talk about finances as well. I think architecture is such a fantastic career and it's very noble. However, sometimes, especially I know I did when I was in the industry, we worry talking about money.

We think sales is crass. We think sales is crude or business development. It's exactly like a [00:57:00] crit. What we think a crit is talking about your project and convincing. the audience that it's a good project to build the building. It's part of what we do. And the reality is the architects, which are good at business development, will typically get paid more money, typically have more work.

And when they're looking for jobs, because he got those connections, they don't struggle looking for jobs. So I think it's okay to talk about sales. And what I'm saying about things converting, that's Being a professional. What do you think we invoice the clients for? Why? And the other thing is, and that's another big topic for the other day, but why do we stress out when fees are low or we haven't got work?

It's horrible. You've got a business. You're stressed out. Overtime occurs. Marketing, I think is one of the things that gets it solved. And that's why we have to be comfortable talking about money. We have to be comfortable talking about online brand and it's okay to win work from it. Don't get embarrassed about saying these [00:58:00] things, please.

Does that make sense? The mini

Beatrice Ronchetti: Yeah, no, that is so true. And I think really it's about reframing how we think about money. If we can really help somebody and solve a problem and add value to them and they can't wait for you to, help them on that specific project because of your expertise, your practice's expertise. They are happy to pay for it, and they are paying because you are solving a problem and that doesn't have to be something dirty and, because obviously architecture is very close to art.

There's something very,

Stephen Drew: Profound. Amazing.

Beatrice Ronchetti: about it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think, Serving people and clients and helping them get to where they want to be, is priceless really, if you can do it well.

Stephen Drew: I agree. I think it makes a lot of sense. And I actually. Practicing with marketing is a little bit like investing in yourself. There's, I think there's nothing better than trial and error, and you can ask me for a few things as well, but you do it, you dedicate yourself to it. So [00:59:00] before we go, why don't we talk about if someone's found this useful, how do they get in contact with you?

Maybe what is the best place to go? How do they reach out to you and all that stuff?

Beatrice Ronchetti: Sure. So obviously there's my website there. Thank you. You can also find me on LinkedIn. Remember if you drop me a message, the first three people, obviously we've already had one, but I will still give out three more, three profile reviews, if

Stephen Drew: Yeah, Animal, you're not allowed to message in as well. You've had yours live. Done. Free new people!

Beatrice Ronchetti: And yeah, so how do I help people? I do one to one coaching, I do team training, I can come to your practice, train your team, and I can also co manage, your profile if, you are just one of those busy people that struggles to do it, by themselves. But yeah, please do connect with me and, yeah.

I hope this was useful.

Stephen Drew: Brilliant. Fantastic. I'm also going to bring you LinkedIn as well. I just want to reiterate that. I, of course, if I was down the pub, I'll give you [01:00:00] little bits of tidbits of advice, but it's like career coaching and everything else I do. If you want to sit down for an hour with someone, it's really worth it.

So invest in yourself. I wish I did it before. I always used to rant when I was younger. I can't afford to do a portfolio. I can't afford to do all this stuff. Actually, you save yourself a lot of money in the long term. So check out what Beatrice does because she will probably tell you what to do.

You can buy me a pint and get five minutes worth of it. But, depending on how many pints I've got, the quality of information will really go down as well. So check out

Beatrice Ronchetti: be the sweet spot.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, exactly. And for our audio listeners, if you've been here, you can check out Beatrice's work, which is www.

beatrice, which is spelled B E A T R T-R-I-C-A and then Ron Ketty spelled Ron Chetty, you know that. And so that's R-O-N-C-H-E-T-T-I dot coder uk. But listen, I really appreciate you being here. It's actually been quite fun for me. Hopefully it wasn't too painful [01:01:00] for you, and you enjoyed it a little bit.

Beatrice, was it all right? You

Beatrice Ronchetti: I, no, I loved it. I loved the sort of improvisation and, no, thanks so much for having me. It's been a pleasure and yeah, I had a great time. Hope it was useful to you and to people.

Stephen Drew: Brilliant. When the algorithm changes, even though, all right, I know it's right. Maybe we can come back and return to this at some point. I would really enjoy that. We'll just wait for it to change a little bit. And then, then we can properly go for it again. But thank you so much Beatrice.

It's good to get someone who's focused on this and someone like me who dabbles in it. It's been really fun. So thank you so much. Stay on the stage one second before I go. I just want to say a massive shout out to everyone in the audience, especially tonight. Your participation makes these episodes quite fun.

So I really appreciate it. I am a bit tired and it's been a bit challenging and I promise these are not alcoholic, but it's been really good. So I really appreciate it. I have another Piece of content coming tomorrow. I have to schedule it a bit later. Cause I'm not that organized that you said, which is the 10 [01:02:00] mistakes, of someone who set up an architecture practice and how to avoid them.

So I will not say who it is yet. Give a little bit of a surprise, but that should be good as well. Thank you so much. I will schedule that soon. Have a lovely evening and take care of everyone. Bye bye now. Take care.

Beatrice Ronchetti: Bye. Thank you. Bye bye.