Architecture for Humanity: The Impact of Article 25 with David Murray

David Murray, Article 25
===

Stephen Drew: [00:00:00] Hi everyone. I am Steven Drew from the Architecture Social, and I am here today with a very special guest from Article 25, fantastic charity in architecture. David, hello. How are you today? You okay?

David Murray: Yeah, I'm good. How are you Steven?

Stephen Drew: I'm all right. Thanks for being patient. So David was kindly waiting 10 minutes because I, I have at the moment, I, on the weekend, cause it was flooding.

I had a leak at a massive leak and I had all this rain coming through. And it wasn't nice because, Your home, it's your shelter. And when these things kind of happen and when this rain's pouring through, it made me feel like, Oh, you feel a bit exposed. And I guess that ties in and made me think it was good timing that we were speaking actually, because article 25, a fantastic charity, but for anyone that doesn't know it, what is the charity about?

David Murray: [00:01:00] So yeah, we're, we're humanitarian architects we take our name from the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights and that's all about having the equal rights of access to safe shelter. So for us, that means that we, we apply ourselves to very challenging settings. They could be after a natural disaster struck like an earthquake or a hurricane, or it could be post.

could be, you know, decades into to a society that has otherwise kind of grumbled and been ignored maybe by the global aid world. Or it could just purely and simply be in the face of poverty. So in those. settings. We work with those communities in those quite challenging settings to design and build schools, hospitals, and homes where they're needed most.

We're based in London so in a way we're a not for profit architectural practice. What you might see in a normal commercial setting you would expect to see in ours, the only difference is that the client, so to speak might be a teacher [00:02:00] who's providing education for disabled and able bodied children in Tanzania, or it could be the families who lost their homes in the hurricane in 2017 over in the Caribbean.

Stephen Drew: All right, fantastic. So, unfortunately, bigger problems than my roof, right? So we're, we're kind of conquering Beirut. We're, we're giving fantastic kids who are unfortunately. In dire circumstances, you give them quality of life, giving them schools. Cause that was my introduction with the charity. So many moons ago, where I feel it's a bit more like in my youth, we're knocking around and I was kindly invited to Adamson's associates and then Adamson's associates are based in Canary wharf.

And you are actually in the same tower as Adamson's a few floors down. And there was an event going on. And it was I think it was like a show and tell. It was like, you're at your, I, whether it's a monthly gathering of all the architecture students that are helping out all the architects involved in you were [00:03:00] showcasing your work and you guys were like, Hey, come in and have a glass of wine.

And so I joined and like. I kind of gate crashed an article 25 me and then it was brilliant. And at the time there was two projects and one of them was a large scale hospital. I forget what country it was in, but basically it was an existing hospital where there was big issues with water, big issues with things not being clean.

And you your team, the article 25 basically went in there a bit like Superman and kind of sorted it all out. And everyone had clean water and the hospital was much more efficient. It had beds and so forth and it was much better. The other project was a school, which is amazing as well. So. I think the charities have been really, really interesting.

And so it's kind of evolved over the years and there's been, and we touched upon it briefly before, there's been a few things, there's a few reasons that people might have seen you in the news as well. Can you maybe let us know of a few [00:04:00] schemes that you've done recently, a bit like the school or hospital, give people a flavor of what you give back to the community?

David Murray: Yeah, of course. So we're, We're a relatively small team. We certainly wouldn't appear in the AJ 100 if if we were a commercial practice, there are six architects. I'm the only non architect working for the charity. All of them have got a background in, in commercial architecture prior to, to joining our team and they lead our projects.

And the effort that goes into making these things a reality. So currently, we're working on a school in Niamey, which is capital city of Niger. It's a beautiful school using a stone called laterite, which can be hand cut from the ground. And left to air dry for a couple of weeks and then it becomes sufficiently robust as a construction material with extremely low embedded energy in it and helps to keep classrooms cool because it's a great, great stone and working on a hospital project in [00:05:00] Nepal with a charity called Leprosy Mission.

England and Wales. The hospital is actually an existing project, but it's expanding. And it's not just treating leprosy patients. It's a general hospital as well. We've got a preschool that's being built. It's the second phase of construction just complete. In Tanzania for child support Tanzania, which is.

For able bodied and disabled children alike we're working on a, an orphanage in the north of the country in Tanzania called Boma with Operation Smile on a cleft lip and palate center in Morocco in Marrakesh. So and then there's a huge 20 year long project to retrofit of an existing hospital in Yangon City, which is in, in Myanmar.

And then we've actually also, even during lockdown, managed to get another couple of projects off the ground as well. So we're we're building a new hospital on Montserrat, where the previous hospital was destroyed in the late 90s by a volcanic activity. [00:06:00] And we're rebuilding 676 new homes across the, the island of Dominica in the Caribbean as well, which was struck by a hurricane a few years back, and they're still sadly trying to rebuild that community.

So we're very, very busy practice. We work right across that kind of. spectrum of, of healthcare access, education and, and shelter. But that's where the effort goes. That's where we put all of our energy and attention.

Stephen Drew: Wow. Okay. That was a lot of projects. No rest for you guys. So that's really interesting.

So there's, there's so much going on now and to kind of dip into it. So you've got so many projects here. What's quite interesting as well, because we touched upon. The architecture of benevolent society before, which is a good charity and article 25, also a fantastic charity. They're both quite different and complimentary.

And what is interesting from what you're talking about is that as article 25, you actually have [00:07:00] architects that build these buildings, improve lives. So in terms of charities. It's what you have to get your head around. And that's what I had to understand. So when I gate crashed at first, and with you guys, where you humbly invited me in to look at the charity, it did feel like going into an architectural studio, talking about projects, you talking about all this stuff.

And I'm like, hang on, is this a charity? You know, there's no, it didn't feel like a red noses and chicken boxes, which is obviously. still a good cause. It's just very different because you have projects you have and part of the charity as well. Yes, it is the raising awareness and raising funds, but actually there's the other side of it where like a practice you have to, you work at a budget for a scheme and problems come up and probably the architects as they go along, they encounter issues with the hospital and they have to, or the project and they have to deal with it.

So. So in terms of yourself, David, this must be very different than, because you've [00:08:00] had a successful career before and come into Article 25. So was it a bit like rocking up to a charity and going, wow, this is also an architectural practice and this is different?

David Murray: Yeah, very different in, in a number of ways, really.

I think one of the first things that really attracted me to to article 25 is just how tangible the impact is with the charity. I've worked with other organizations in roles that have been very focused on making changes to legislation and policy around environmental protection or I've been trying to help tackle big.

big health issues like HIV advocacy and FGM in Africa. But again, you're in this kind of huge community of agencies and organizations of different scales, all trying to tackle the same problem. And then it's really difficult to be able to kind of claim that you've made a positive impact on. On the individuals that you're trying to support, of course, you get the sense that you are, but can you [00:09:00] really for certain confirm that the work that you've done has had the positive impact that you tried to set out to achieve.

So what's really great about something like Article 25 is that if you build a school where it didn't exist and where literacy rates. Lower than 30 percent in a country like Niger or Burkina Faso. And you've created space for 1200 students to pass through that school every year. And you know, for sure that you've actually done something to support that community and enable those individuals.

To have a much brighter, economically more free life, they've got the opportunity to gain the formal education that we so often sadly take for granted in, in the UK that just doesn't exist to the same extent elsewhere in the world. So that's, that's one of the things that really attracted me. I think the other is, is, as you touched on it, it does look like an architect's studio and, and one of the.

There were kind of two principles that one of our founding trustees, Jack Pringle, who's past president of the RIBA, is still [00:10:00] going to be involved with the charity and on the board. When he was approached to set the charity up by another past president, Maxwell Hutchinson, he said, I'll, I'll help you on two conditions.

The first is that we're going to do stuff. We're not going to just sit around and talk about the ideas of using architecture for good. We're actually going to do it. And then second, if we're going to do it, then we're going to do it just as professionally as we would if it were a commercial profit making project in our studios.

And so those principles have kind of been the pillars of the charity and that's where, that's where the professionalism and the kind of commercial approach to delivering these projects still exists, even though. The clients are different, the resources and materials available are very different, the settings are different, the challenges are different but actually it's still you know, a good design and build project that we want to make sure meets the needs of the people who are going to use those buildings.

Stephen Drew: Amazing. So there's a lot of good that's done and I love how accessible it is. [00:11:00] And yeah, it, to me, it's pretty much like a studio. So there's other events that come around it. So we're talking about the projects. There's loads of ways to get involved. So just give a flavor of, even if you're not someone, so article 25, my impression and correct me if I'm right or wrong, David, is that it really is a case where you can get involved in a lot of different ways.

So I actually went to one of your auctions before. And I narrowly missed out on spending 200 pounds on a picture, which my, my friend was like, you don't need that picture. And I was like, I am having that picture and this is going to charity. So I'm doing a good cause. So, but then maybe I'm like, Oh, maybe it wouldn't have fit.

And actually he bought a picture. And I look back and I'm like, Oh, You know, yeah, but do you know, there was one really good one. So this so this talk about the, I'm on about, I think the eight by eight drawing event, which is a great fundraiser that you guys do as well. And what I like is that what you've talked about [00:12:00] is the projects that make a difference and as well, so that could be global that's around the world.

And in terms of London, the events that you do in terms of fundraising and other suiting. At the times of the there's a, the eight by eight drawing, which was really successful. And that raises awareness for the charity, raises funds for the charity, and you can buy an architect's drawing. Is that right?

David Murray: Yeah. So it's coming into its, its 10th. And normally we host a big live event, which obviously we, we sadly can't do this year, but it will still be hosted over a two week period as a silent auction. So the idea is that we drop a grid across a different part of London and each of those grid squares becomes the inspiration for for the creation of wonderful artworks that architects, engineers, artists, sculptors.

Like all come together and create pieces which they then donate to article 25 and we auction those off to raise funds. In support of [00:13:00] our work. So it's, yeah, it's, it's a flagship fundraising event for us. It's one of those great kind of in the calendar moments for, for us, a great chance for us to meet with our supporters.

And even if you're not there to buy the artwork, it's a wonderful evening and quite a spectacle to see, you know, the theater of a live auction as well. It's very, very entertaining great way to, to raise funds, but then, oh, sorry.

Stephen Drew: I had an idea. Sorry, I'm jumping in. I got excited in my head. What, what, what about David?

I'm springing this on you right now. So we'll see if this one makes the final cut, right? What about if on the Architecture Social, there's a competition for the best drawing and the best person that does the drawing, can they, could that, could that drawing then be in 8x8 this year as the Architecture Social drawing as someone can buy for the, and win for the charity?

David Murray: I think this is a great idea. The only bummer is that it's. It's probably annoyingly just too late for this year because [00:14:00] we've just been gathering up the artworks that we then put them up on, on the platform because it's literally in a couple of weeks time we'll go live to start collecting bids, but we can absolutely set it up as a competition and get it, we can even get it going straight away.

He's coming up for the next order and that'd be a really nice, really nice way to get people involved. I

Stephen Drew: love, I love it. Exclusive here. First victory. Bow. Hey, amazing. And then that is, it's so much fun on it. And what I find interesting about this, this was an organic conversation. Now we talked last week about doing this this podcast and in the moment, and there's so many ways to get involved with the charity.

And I think that. It was great when you humbly let me see the charity and I went to this event and it was, it was really awesome. So it's about half of it's about people getting involved. And what I like is that, and that there is no requirement per se, [00:15:00] you can literally go to an event or you can be someone if you wanted to get involved at certain times of the year.

What's interesting is that you open up the, the charity and offer experience and positions for architectural assistants or architects, and I think it would be worth talking about that, David. And we, we unpicked it a bit earlier. So occasionally you post advertisements for these projects. Can you run through how it comes about?

So say now there's a project, how you need an architect, how you need an architectural assistant and what you would do to find that person.

David Murray: Yeah, of course. So I mentioned that we're, you know, quite a small team, but that also rattled off a quite a long list of, of live projects that are on the go. And that's also not thinking about some of the upcoming things that we're getting into feasibility.

But to make these projects happen, you know, make them a reality. We, we really do need the help and support of. The built environment [00:16:00] sector at large architects included to help us from from london so, a part of that is that as as with any any charity, It with any cause attached to it volunteering is is a very big part of helping to support our charity And we simply would not be able to deliver the amounts of work and support that we do without the support of volunteers And a big part of the volunteering at article 25 is at the part one and part two stages of somebody's development into and career development into architecture.

And so we, we ask and invite people to, to approach us to share their CVs and portfolios and go through, you know, quite a competitive recruitment process. And I suppose the reason it's competitive is because the types of projects that you get the opportunity to work on are really quite different from those that you might find in a, in an otherwise paid role in a commercial practice in London.

The feedback that we [00:17:00] get from, from our volunteers is that it's so, so invaluable. You know, even now when, when the marketplace is so competitive for jobs, we just successfully placed one of our volunteers. in HTA and she'd been working with us for about six months and she was working on the Operation Smile Cleft Lip and Palate Center amongst other projects.

So they get a really immersive experience. Of course, sadly based in London rather than on site. And it would be wonderful to get the chance to give people the opportunity to work on site, but those roles that we do also do voluntarily are reserved for people with with some more substantial experience.

So there are opportunities at more than one stage in your career with Article 25 if you're heading into architecture. And we hope that the support that we give to you as a volunteer. With the mentoring and coaching that we're giving through our project architects is is a part of your own learning and application of that learning [00:18:00] that you've had from the university setting into the workplace.

And of course, then we're well networked across the architects. Some of the, some of the best architects in the world. And so we, we often reach out to them to ask if they're looking to recruit any part one and part two staff members and then successfully get them going on their careers.

Stephen Drew: Right.

Let's flash this out because I love this point and this is, this is an interesting one right now, because I've done a lot of webinars about how people should get a job. Okay. And in a, and, and I gotta be careful the words I say here for anyone listening. So any commercial practice I think should be offering a paid salary.

Now I'm on the, the key word I use there is commercial company. What I'm talking about is when an architectural business builds a building for. Said client. So Fosters, when they were building the Bloomberg HQ, they were getting paid for that. And my opinion is that anyone working [00:19:00] on that building that is not Mr.

Fosters and is on their team should be paid a salary. Now, while we're talking about here with Article 25, and the reason why I bring this up is because I posted The awareness of a role that was posted in Article 25. Now, what you're saying is you will pay for transport, you will pay for that. The exposure you get is fantastic.

Unfortunately, there's not a salary involved. Now, The way I view article 25 when it comes to this role is that it's kind of a transient point or like a revolving door on your way to success, right? If you want to work on a successful architectural commercial practice, the point is the experience that you get an article 25 is going to be really valuable.

Yes. Okay. Potentially, you're not, you're not going to be paid right now for this position, but it's the experience that you get there, which then can get you as you use in a literal example, someone got a job at HTA Architects. That is a great practice [00:20:00] that is somewhere, which is really people aspire to be now the experience that the individual 25, how I am, I have no doubt reading between the lines that.

In an interview, rather than going, I would love to work at HTA and yeah, just let me in the door. If someone says, look, while I've been looking, it's a bit of a difficult time, I've been involved with a charity called Article 25. And what they do is they give back to the community and I was involved. On a live project, a hospital or a school.

And what we did is we took it from design to practical completion, or I would help to go and say, I have solved these problems. This is experience. That's going to get you a job. And I think that is progressive. Okay. It's not as it's, it's not a paid salary right now, but what we're talking about is getting experience going towards that.

And actually the exposure that you get with yourself. [00:21:00] And you talked about Mr. Jack Pringle and you got Mr. Prasad and you, and I remember going into this meet and then, and. You actually, you listen to these or hallmarks. So I sound like I'm gushing. So Mr. Pringle, but you know, he has done a lot of really good stuff.

And so you're there and you get this exposure that you'd never, you'd never get to before. Now you're not saying David to this person that they've got to stay there forever in a day. You, you understand the realities of life, that there's probably a time window that people can do this. There's a, there's, there's this like, okay, I can do three to six months.

in the summer. I'll enjoy it. And it's a, it's a trade off for you because you impart all you get, you give to the, to this individual, it's really good exposure, but then to, to the, to the person that's helping you out, they actually help you out as well. They don't, they help make it happen. And so it's a, it's a really good trade off.

And so that's where I go back to. I find that this is very different than [00:22:00] Working at a commercial practice that goes, sorry, David, I can't pay you right now, but if you can keep building my commercial scheme where I make a profit on thing. Great. So it's very, very different. And I want, I think that it was good to make that distinction right here, right now on why I think it's good to work for article 25, but why I still believe that as a person, you should get paid to do commercial enterprises.

David Murray: Yeah, I agree. And you know, I'd love to be able to make the volunteering itself as accessible as possible. And so I'm also kind of taking this opportunity to really, you know, pitch back to the AJ100. You know, if, if every one of those practices. was to give article 25, just a thousand pounds a year, that would be sizable chunk of funding to support article 25.

And that in itself could enable us to create. You know, some form of grant support to, to be able to make [00:23:00] volunteering experience more accessible to people who can't sadly afford not to be earning whilst living in London, which we completely appreciate is so, so challenging. At the moment, all that we can sadly do is, is help to cover some of those kind of day to day costs of traveling and food.

But we would love to be able to make it more accessible and there are some other schemes out there you know, Stephen Lawrence Trust. There's something through the RRBA as well that does exist for people to be able to apply for some financial support early on in their careers. What we hope we're doing, where we're not able to give that financial support, is we're giving them that real exposure to rolling your sleeves up and getting on with projects from feasibility through concept into construction design, all of the standards stages you might see in the RIBA process applied in a very different context.

And like you said, you know, if you're stood as a candidate in front of a prospective employer, it's a bit like trying to get yourself into, you know, Oxford or Cambridge University. Everybody's got straight A's. So now how do we [00:24:00] make a distinction between. You as a great candidate and another person is a great candidate.

How are you different? And so, you know, from the world of sport, they talk about having marginal gains, those small things that you might be able to do to help you become more competitive and have that edge over your competitors. And I would suggest that something like volunteering with an architectural.

organization is one of those marginal gains. You can present a portfolio that looks very distinctly different from most of the other people in the room, and that will hopefully help tip them towards you rather than somebody else.

Stephen Drew: Well, I think it's more than just marginal because I've done recruitment for six years and I was a part one and part two, and I think any experience on any light building It puts you at a substantial gain or a substantial advantage over anyone else in an interview who doesn't have that experience.

And I'll tell you when I was starting to recruit my business many years ago, I was in a startup office, [00:25:00] David. And what always makes me laugh is that there was this one little media company. And, I can't remember the name of the company. Oh, I can. I can't remember the names of individuals and what was interesting in the media business, and there's a bit like the fashion, there's this element of people start as apprentices and they work unpaid for a year or two.

And it's kind of like, if you want to make it in this business. I did that. Therefore you do that. And what we're on about here is completely different than that. You're saying, look, if you, if you work hard for three months on this life project, then you get experience. We're going to pay for you to come in.

Unfortunately, that's all we can do right now. But. You do this as long as you want to as well, you know, obviously we want you to work hard on the project and get stuck in and we want that kind of person, but you're saying, look, when you work up to a point and you would, you would be happy, David, if someone to go off after doing this project and they, they, their career soars, you know, they look back.

Yeah, and for you as well, then when people [00:26:00] get involved with a charity and they go to other companies, that's good for spreading awareness as well, isn't it? So then people at HTA are aware of the good work of Article 25. So it all kind of goes around. So that's why I think it's good to talk about it here.

The difference between working with Article 25 right now voluntarily versus commercial practice. Okay, my rant's over, David, because I, I was quite happy about, I'm quite happy about it, because I do think it's a good cause. So, the other thing I want to chat about is, you mentioned you're so busy, COVID, it's, now, I'm a bit fatigued with all this coronavirus talk, I'm sure you feel the same, I don't know if we're interested in really talking about what Boris Johnson's up to this week, and da da da da, but what's But they must have had an effect on the charity as in it's made things tougher for everyone, isn't it?

It's made tougher for you, yourself involved, the architectural [00:27:00] team. How has it impacted you? Yeah,

David Murray: so it has obviously had an impact. I think we've kind of, we've kind of got away with in terms of the project's delivery. It's not hit us as bad as we were expecting it might. Anything that's been in construction that has gone through a local lockdown has obviously caused some problems.

Even if there wasn't a local lockdown, it may be that there's restrictions on borders for bringing materials onto site, or the workforce can't get, get to the to the site if they're not living. Immediately adjacent to the to the site just because of travel restrictions or the lack of public transport, whatever it might be There have been some delays in delivering, against our projects, but not not too bad I think the biggest strike really has been Around our fundraising.

And you know so much of what what we try to do Outside of the projects is to raise cash To support the charity's existence to to allow us to essentially at the start of any project We'll make financial losses to to create feasibility studies, which then might become funded projects, but don't always [00:28:00] become funded projects so we want to be able to build, you know that kind of fighting funds to be able to support communities and And give them a sense of what a school might cost and how long it might take to build.

And to do that, we need to raise cash. So we've, we've struggled on that front because normally we'd go to, you know, we'd go to big events like MIPIM where they'll give us free delegate passes to do networking and try to build. Corporate relationships for sponsorship. We had a big corporate sponsor who just a week before lockdown was about to come on board, but then had to just pause on that because for obvious reasons, you know, they need to focus on saving their own business before they think about how they might expand their own corporate social responsibility agenda.

There are events, you know, we were going to have a team cycling last month across Tanzania visiting. One of the construction sites at Tanzania school They were going to be fundraising for us. We were going to run the hackney half marathon, which got cancelled Or there's a construction industry christmas ball that we were about to start up again that used to be hosted by [00:29:00] stanhope and supported the Architects Benevolent, and before we were trying to reignite that, there were all of these things that were ready to go.

And, and then obviously the rug's been pulled from under us. So we've managed to, you know, financially, we, we think we're going to weather the storm. We've managed to do a few much smaller scale things to, to encourage people to support us. So you can sign up to give us a few pounds a month if you're in the position to be able to.

Supporters like that, you can sign up for direct debit. We did a t shirt design competition earlier in the year. So you can buy t shirts with article 25 and designs on. And again, the profits from those come straight back to the charity. The renewable energy power, the organic cotton, everything you'd expect from, you know, a sustainability organization.

But those big kind of those big events and those. Opportunities to raise cash with corporates is kind of really taken a, a knock. So the best thing that anyone could do in the coming months, if they [00:30:00] happen to have saved a bit of money on all of the prep sandwiches that they might not have bought for the last six months to to send some of that to, to article 25.

Stephen Drew: Amazing. And we will definitely post a link on that there. And I quite like as well, if someone, what's great about the article 25, and we're talking about the 8x8 drawing, there's lots of ways to give back. I, so obviously it's, if anyone can spare, and of course you're talking about if they can do it. Everyone's got to look after themselves right now.

If there's a, if you, if you can be flexible, then a direct charity. Direct, oh gosh, what's the word? A donation. Oh God, where, where's my brain today? A donation would be appreciated. And then that trickles down to a keeping article 25 afloat, helping people get amazing experience, experience on projects.

And as well, I mean, you get really good buildings that get built and save lives. So that's good. And then [00:31:00] there's other ways that people can get involved. So how, So say now I haven't got any money in my bank because my roof's leaking. And you just saw my internet cut off just now as well. So it's all going wrong in the Steve and Drew household, but I really want to help the charity.

I really want to get involved. So how can people help indirectly? Is there any ways that are supportive?

David Murray: Definitely. I mean, I suppose first and foremost, it's just as important for us to share and raise awareness of our work. So to share. Our work with your friends and family and colleagues some of whom might be in a position to make a donation Even if maybe you can't you know, we're currently we've got launched an appeal in support of of shelter in in beirut You might have seen in the aj yesterday and so if people want to share the link to that Fundraising appeal that would really help because the further we can spread it the more likely we are to to raise the the cash if you want to kind of use your creative [00:32:00] Skills in a slightly different way.

We've currently got a greetings card and design competition going where and if if your Work is it's just to be one of the winning entries It would then feature on greetings cards that go on sale through a company called making difference cards And all of the funds go to to article 25 on the sale of those Greetings cards, not just Christmas cards all year round.

So I think very much that kind of raising awareness and taking kind of getting involved, you can offer to support us as a volunteer, not just in the architecture world as well, because we're just the same as any other charity in, in the respects of trying to get our message out to the media.

So we need people to help us with our communications and with. Social media and marketing with fundraising itself with events, management, thinking about events like 10 by 10, trying to organize those can be quite quite challenging, even when it's being done remotely and online, we still need that help.

So yeah, it's not just about, about the money. Of course that's, it's [00:33:00] always, it's always sadly about. having enough money to get the work done. But any support that people can give to help spread the word of, about our work would be hugely appreciated. All

Stephen Drew: right, cool. So everyone, everyone, we need to, we need to raise awareness.

So let's, what we'll do is let's share that because actually the campaign for Beirut, which you're on about, that's some really cool footage of the drone footage. I have to be careful when I use the word cool. Cause it was like, wow, this is amazing. But you're like, oh my gosh, it's actually. awful. It's flying through everything.

It's like debris. It's like that game fallout. It's like a post apocalyptic world. And you just think, and sometimes it's what's important to mention about the charity as well. It's a shame right now we're in lockdown because when I was. In the article 25 office, you really get a sense of realism. And what I think, David, is that we're all in our little bubbles, especially now.

And I'm not on about a COVID six people bubble. I'm on about like, I'm in my own little [00:34:00] world where I'm in my own little area. And it's so easy to get at the moment, desensitized to the fact that these things are going on. And what we are talking about here is very literal projects get built. In the globe, the schools and shelter and housing, it does make a difference there.

And we're talking about someone's quality of life somewhere, going from drinking dirty water to having clean water, having a toilet. Another example that when I was there, I can remember was Mr. Prasad talking about. Ladies changing rooms, because there was nowhere for ladies to change. So stuff that we completely take for granted, these people don't have.

So I would like to have everyone to think about that. And the more and more you kind of get involved with the charity, or the more you research, the more you learn that these projects exist. It's not, we're not on about this. It's, it's not like it's a bucket where [00:35:00] it goes in and you think, Oh, I don't know.

It's just solving cancer somewhere. And that is important. They're look, I'm not saying that's not important before anyone starts saying what's wrong with cancer research. I'm like, guys, I think it's great. Okay. We don't need that. But what I'm saying here, this is a great charity, which helps out in terms of the built environment.

And we're all passionate about the built environment. We studied it. So what better way to give back? Yes. Give to comic relief. Yes. Give to the British cancer foundation because. Equally important. What you can do with article 25 though, is that the money that goes towards these projects makes a difference.

It makes a physical difference. And we all went into this because we believe in building better built environments. So why not help out? So. On that note, David, I'm how do we get involved? Where do we find you on LinkedIn? Where do we find the Article 20 Fives charity? How do we, how do we get going?

David Murray: So if you wanna head to our our websites, article [00:36:00] 20 org where searchable on, on all of the social channels, as you might expect, just search by our name, article 25 on LinkedIn, Instagram. Facebook and Twitter. We've got a YouTube channel where when we've been able to host talks that we, that we call make design matter, which is a kind of platform, not just for us, but for other organizations doing similar work to us around the world, we post them up online for people to be able to watch them back.

So yeah, do take a look on online and yeah, anything you can do to obviously to help promote. our work. I feel like we're still this kind of best kept secret in the architecture world, and we really shouldn't be. We should be known about the work that we're doing is, is obviously extremely important, and the scale of the challenge is absolutely huge, so.

Yeah, any help you can do to help raise awareness about our work is much appreciated.

Stephen Drew: That makes complete sense. So anyone listening, do tell your employees about all the good work that's been done at [00:37:00] Article 25. Please, please do, that's really helpful as well. And there's so many schemes that Article 25 help out with.

I'm tempted to say, can you help fix my roof, David? And my, my internet's going, but even I know that there's bigger problems at play, and I would much rather that these. Fantastic projects get built and they help save lives, improve lives, and yeah, more, more beautiful projects around the world that people enjoy and cherish in part of their daily lives.

So thank you so much, David. I really appreciate your time. Thank you. Thanks, Stephen. Thanks for the opportunity. Hey, no problem. Speak soon.