Decoding Data centres: An Insight Into Mission Critical Architecture

Decoding Data centres: An Insight Into Mission Critical Architecture

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[00:00:00]

Stephen Drew: Hi everyone. It's mission and critical. I'm sorry, Tom Cruise is not here. He's in the cinema though. Don't worry about that. Forget that. But this is equally exciting, parachuting into the data service and stuff. Tom Cruise has been there. We're gonna take you there too. Elon Musk. You ain't got nothing on this.

Alright? 20 seconds, all be revealed. If you're still on that rev model, guys gotta turn it off now. Go home. But before you go home, actually watch this. Hello everyone and welcome to this livestream special. I'm so happy that you are here. Get your glass of wine, your coffee, whatever you make in that carbonara [00:01:00] or whatever, don't burn it, but pay attention 'cause this is gonna be really interesting. Now, two to three years ago, I was knocking around a pajamas in Clubhouse and in clubhouse you can meet a random eclectic mix of people and unfort.

Unfortunately, you have some. Awesome professionals there, and one of them was actually my guest today who is Ham Kahan at Steve Partners. How are you? Ham, are you okay?

Muhammad Khan: I'm good. I'm good Steven. And thanks for the warm welcome. It's been a while. Clubhouse here. Yeah. Good old days. Yep.

Stephen Drew: was back in the day, but however, now we've gone from talking on audio to in-person on video. While Clubhouse hasn't done that well, a lot of things have happened, isn't it? And in the technological world, it seems that we're not in short supply. We need more and more of these servers. Chat, GP t's going and all this stuff.

Now, Mohamed, you have work in a very interesting sector, which I find [00:02:00] absolutely fascinating. I called Mission Critical Buildings. However, first of all, Hamed, for anyone that hasn't met you or unlike me, has spoke to you on Clubhouse. Can you let us know a little bit about who you are, first of all?

Muhammad Khan: Yeah, no problem. I'm a traditional Architect born and bred in Bonnie Scotland where I got my. My degree up in Glasgow and managed to travel, jump over the wall down to London. Been in London for 15 years now. Initially thought pack, my bags come down six months in London and it's been 15 years.

And plan to stay here for a long time. And keep building and designing data centers

Stephen Drew: Brilliant. I I must confess before we move on, my plan was to get my part one in, in, in London and then maybe get a job back in, in Cardiff. So it I've been there before and that's really interesting. So thank you. And before we move on as well, so Steve and George and partners, while you head up [00:03:00] the data center team, wanna tell us a little bit about the company set the scene of what, where you are running your sector.

Muhammad Khan: Yeah, Stephen Georgian partners as an Architectural practice. We have been around since 1970, so 53 years. And our head office is based in Leicester. We have five offices across the uk. We work in nine sectors, so a lot of people don't know that, are from logistics, transport, healthcare education.

Mixed use life sciences as well. And I joined at the latter part of 2020 and it was kinda like near the end of the Covid period. So it was like, are we back to office? Are we not back to office? So that whole time of me joining Steven Jordan partner was quite surreal and new to me.

My interview was through teams which was quite. Quite unusual. But yeah I joined and basically established the London office and yeah, since 2020 we had a [00:04:00] nice office a small office in shortage where we roll out sectors such as data centers, industrial logistics we're doing about light rail, commercial interiors, and healthcare for us.

Yeah, it's going good.

Stephen Drew: Nice. Now, data centers in particular, I can see that more and more people are ing their phones. It makes sense to me that it's a growing sector. However, it could be fair Maha that not every Architect when they study in Architecture initially thinks that they will be specialized in a sector which maybe isn't seen as others.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on, what you love about that. But first of all, how did you get into doing data centers?

Muhammad Khan: I think for me it was a sector by chance. I was kinda in, I. The kinda era where, you know, when you're doing Architecture you feel like I wanna do something different. So I got into project management and a bit of kind of construction management as well which was very valuable experience.

But then I felt that [00:05:00] I was very kinda employer side thinking like a client and getting a lot of experience from other side of fe fence. And I was like I need to get back into. Architecture and just using my network I managed to obtain a job that got me into the industrial logistics and data center sector.

And, I love technology. So it was due to the love of technology that I've got and stayed in, in that sector sort of thing. And yeah, it's, for us, it's booming and it's one of the. Few recession proof sectors because you'll always need data storage and processing. Yeah.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, nice. And I agree. It's through the, throughout the pandemic when I was trying to survive myself it seems that the clients that were doing really strong were practices which had worked in data centers because throughout the pandemic, the, the retail was, has been put on hold.

The, that hotels were not sure what they were doing. However, the data center, it was business [00:06:00] as usual. So that's really interesting to hear. Now, what I would like to ask as well, because you're right, initially people maybe fall into it, but now it's become more and more of a sector that people are getting aware of.

The kind of people that I thought would fit in really, Mohammed. Into data center sectors Could be people that like technical challenges, people who do as you say, the project management. How are you gonna get all this power into the sector? But, from your point of view, what do you think really makes someone fit in really well in the data center sector?

Them.

Muhammad Khan: Yeah, I think primarily you need to have a lot of patience and a love for the profession. You have to. Love Architecture, the, all the gritty bits of it as well. And for me the sector, you have to have, knowledge of tech, technical coordination. These buildings are, if you look at them, they do look very gray.

And what we are doing [00:07:00] is we're doing our best to make them more aesthetically pleasing, more design orientated. So that's where as architects have got this kinda struggle with the meps and the structure engineers and the clients here, by making 'em a lot more attractive. I think if they are more attractive, then they can be a lot more appealing to the next generation and the up and coming young students.

But having that knowledge of technical coordination awareness of regulations, and even sustainability as well the net carbon zero targets that we're trying to do you'd be surprised at how much we have to consider to make them more sustainable. People do see. The negative side of it, of water usage, energy usage, but we are focusing on sustainability.

Having that love for those elements will certainly kinda help you in that sector.

Stephen Drew: Yeah. Nice one. And that make, that makes a lot of sense. And and for the benefit, the doubt that's not familiar, if anyone's not familiar with data center, [00:08:00] in, in your words, I know that there are NDAs and we're gonna be tricky here, but can you visualize what. A typical data center is used for, is it hosting websites?

Is it hosted information of companies? Is it for, large chat, G p T, Microsoft places and stuff? Not saying names, not saying your clients, but can you illustrate what is in a data center typically?

Muhammad Khan: Yeah, I think with the kinda high level space planning of a data center is you'll have your block for admin because you've got people that do work in a data center. When it comes to the security and administration side you have your racks and servers that house the cloud.

So it's quite funny because I do a lot of mentoring with year nine students and also young architects as well. And when you speak to them, do you know what the cloud is? And a lot of, very few of them know actually what the cloud is. So it's still server racks that you find in a in a building in a data [00:09:00] center.

And so that's probably the second element. Then you've got the power I. And the generators and the chillers that actually maintain and manage it. So I think in a few words, it's a building that manages stores and processes data. So the more we use. Online shopping, streaming, e-commerce, banking, online banking, your Fitbit watches, the more and more is required for processing that data and it's not slowing down, it's yeah.

Stephen Drew: You might have to start building data centers on top of data centers at some point. It does feel like it's going up. Now I joked around earlier about NDAs and of course a lot of this stuff is, can be quite confidential. However, before this, you kindly shown me a few images that we are actually.

Allow to talk about which are in the public realm. So if you are happy with it, Mamed, I'd like to

Muhammad Khan: Yeah. Yeah.

Stephen Drew: one or two images and then you can just illustrate a [00:10:00] little bit about, build upon what we talked about earlier so you can decrypt or decode the building. 'cause it's far from a shed reserve racks in the field.

As you say they're much more advanced offices, hubs, server racks, everything. So let me bring up, so we've got the. We've got this the website here again, so I'll bring up the link at the end for Stephen Georgian Partners. However, here's project number one. I don't know any of the details, so it is a little bit Tom Cruise, however, do you wanna walk us through quickly this project?

Muhammad Khan: I think Tom Cruise would find it quite difficult to get into this building.

Stephen Drew: Oh, really? He's not gonna parachute down the top of this one. Fair

Muhammad Khan: No it took me 20 minutes last week to get into it. It's but even though you're an Architect, you still have to go through the right kind of protocols. It's just one of those things. But yeah. Just using, this project as an example this was. An existing industrial logistics shed.

So it was actually designed for [00:11:00] something like, your D H L or your UQ mail to process, deliveries. And so it's a standard shed and we kinda occupied this at completion stage for the existing building and fitted this out as a data center. So what that kinda grill on the right hand side is an external gantry.

And that has internal multiple layers that's exposed to the elements of generators. So you've got these kind of rectangular white blocks that are generated and that is used for backup power. So in case there's a power cut to the data center, these gens kick in. Really happens. But we have to have those provisions in because of the.

Because of the assets that we are managing, you can't have that loss of data. And then within gantry, you'll have a series of battery rooms that help with the backup storage and fluctuating power set of chillers that help with the cooling and beyond that, within the main building is the kind of [00:12:00] core of the building and that is mainly like the data halls and the cooling kinda elements in the offices as well.

So very, even though you know these are secure campuses, once it becomes a data center, we have to think about, additional security and, anti tail. Getting gates and things like that. As part of, the kinda feasibility and the planning stages a lot of this has to be kinda implemented in as well.

So I think,

Stephen Drew: No, it makes complete sense. While we're talking, we've got one or two fans of the audience, Jason Ball Previous also Clubhouse Illumini. While it was there, I. Maybe Clubhouse is not using the data centers, but there's a lot of others that are. And James Ricks Adds is a data center is home to where the internet lives.

Thank you so much, James, for sharing that as well. I really appreciate it. Now Mohamed, I am driving this and this. Presentation probably very badly. So I'm just gonna skip ahead a little bit and you tell me [00:13:00] if you want me to stop on any particular page here, but I can see there's some, nice, renders from the outside.

And also I noticed that, you've got, yeah, you've got, it's quite actually quite big, isn't it? My goodness.

Muhammad Khan: Yeah, this building is approximately about 150 or so thousand square feet. And, to make it financially feasible for the client, we add an additional mezzanine level an internal warehouse. And if you can imagine with the, with additional floors and just racks there's a lot that we have to think about.

The existing steels have to be considered loadings. So I think that's the challenge that we have as architects that it's a sector which is very m e p led because you're thinking about the servers and the coolings. But like any sector, I feel that architects have to be, the first ones in and the last one out.

'cause you have to think about, The external shell, the permitting the planning constraints, and then also the inside as well when it comes [00:14:00] to the usage the fire regulations. So I think that image there, the third one it had the, sorry, the one after that. Yeah, you can see the kind of the thin rectangular strips on the bottom.

That's the generators, which is really. Kinda illustrative. And the top level, you've got the chillers, but they are very power hungry buildings as well. They are built where there's power availability. For this job we had to add two additional substations. So that was something that was an after element that we had to consider as well.

Stephen Drew: Nice. There's Jason had one technical question probably around safety, talking about do they have sprinklers? Would the data center of all the servers have that something above them? I would've imagined it would suck the fire out of the air, but hey, yeah, it's a good point. How do you, we, is there like a total different rules than Mohammed on, on, on safety in these areas which store a lot of data?

Muhammad Khan: Yeah, good question from Jason. They have a a water miss system and the ones that [00:15:00] we use, but in terms of fire protection everything's compar comparative of for two reasons. One is for the safety of the assets, and the other one is the safety of the people. They're very low occupancy buildings.

I. So you have to take into account the low occupancy as well, and that dictates the fire strategy. Using one example of staircases. Under building reds you'll have 30 minutes which is enough to comply with Part B, but in this building we go with 90 minutes. And the data holds are 60 minute compartments.

So it, it's an uplift on fire regulations to ensure that. That the occupiers and the users of the building can leave safely as well. And as well as the kinda service racks being protected as well. So yes, we do have sprinklers as well as far compartment walls,

Stephen Drew: Wow. Okay. That makes a lot of sense. It's quite interesting because I know you specialize in data centers. Jason in the audience [00:16:00] specializes in nuclear power plants, so it's interesting the utilitarian. Architecture, which is an art form in its own really, isn't it? Like how do you do all this to solve these complicated problems?

Because let me tell you, if suddenly people who are searching on a search engine or a, on a social media platform and there's a bit of an outage, suddenly it's a very big problem, isn't it? So it, it makes a lot of sense. These things cannot fail. I'm guessing that I have to have a lot of contingencies. Is that correct?

Muhammad Khan: Yeah. I mean they, they tend to have a lot of contingencies and that's where. You have the various tiers of data centers and, when you are going into a search engine, you have the kinda, the automated letter that comes up and it can get to 99.9997 or 99.9998. These are very kinda efficient.

Buildings and you have your various websites, companies, or multi-billion. Retail [00:17:00] companies that depend on the data and the processing power. So for them that it's, it's their revenue, so they have to be very efficient building sort of thing.

And they're regularly checked as well. Like the plant is maintained the service are always maintained. So it's it's just one of those things that, that things are constantly being reviewed as well. And. I've also read that there's a data center that is being used by a software company in the Nordic countries that actually self diagnoses itself.

So it, it's kinda omitting even part of human interference where again, it's using AI and machine learning as well, where a data center can't actually. Cur itself. So if there's a snag in the server or whatever it is, it has the capability to think and process and cur itself. So we are actually thinking that, how much human interaction are you gonna have in these buildings?

Are they gonna be, are they gonna be dark buildings where machines and robots and [00:18:00] droids you just kinda take over and process your data sort of thing. So interesting.

Stephen Drew: It's very interesting. I won't go off on a tangent, but I did have see a very interesting AI chat talk at the moment where, you know when does the AI get so aware that suddenly a tsunami heading for their data center means extinction, that suddenly they're gonna protect themselves. So it is very interesting that actually when you talk about that stuff, the dataset that becomes its own kind of self propelling.

I. Living entity. I'm happy to move on and I've got a few questions, but do you have anything crazy to add to that or we happy to move on?

Muhammad Khan: Yeah. I think I think for me is that every day is a is a, is is a learning day for us. Technology is moving so fast that I find that what you've got today can be out of day in a year's time. So as architects, we just have to be on our toes.

Stephen Drew: I agree. And the AI can't do the architect's role, so that's why you're here and we get your insights at the moment, so I appreciate that. Last thing before we move [00:19:00] on, James. Rick says you need to consider a very early smoke detection system as well as Vesta with some fire suppressive systems.

You need to make the true the DB rate and the sprinkler heads as anything above. 120 decibels can nuke the hard drive of the server. So thank you, James for illustrating, a technical solution to a complicated problem. We can't have the hard drives dying. The data will be lost, that

Muhammad Khan: Yeah.

Stephen Drew: It's very interesting. Now, Mohammed you sent over another project that, and when I was looking at it, and it, we can see it from the outside, but in particular you sent through an image, which was quite interesting. And what I wanted to talk about is illustrate maybe what it's like to work in these projects.

Before you said, the kind of person that is really, It would suit. However, what I'd love to know is it makes sense that data centers le lend itself to projects being modeled in BIM. I would've imagined as well. What's the actual [00:20:00] work process like in the office in terms of the tools you use to build these complicated buildings?

Muhammad Khan: Yeah other than being stressed 24 7.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, of course. Apart from that, what are you using when you're pulling your hair out?

Muhammad Khan: Yeah. Yeah, these jobs these jobs, a hundred percent have to be coordinated in three D. Again we tend to have three disciplines at stage two or three feasibility. So as architects, we have a an M E P, and a structures engineer. And what we tend to do is everyone kinda works on their elements individually.

And then it's down to the architects to support with the structure coordination and m e p coordination as well. And for us it works. And things like learning about new ways of working as well from the m E p because they'll come up with these components that they used the year before and they say you know what, it needs to be more sustainable, [00:21:00] so it's gonna be half the size but we need to add this attachment onto it to make it.

To, to filter the c o two emissions or something like that. So we are always kinda learning, and if that means that it's slightly bigger or elongated than what it was before, then Architectural, we need to make it work as well. And we tend to, we use Autodesk Revit. That's quite a well known software and I recommend all the youngsters leaving university to, to use as the first thing that, that we actually look at.

And We tend to, we can work in the cloud as well. We've done that before, which is quite good where, we can work on one model. But but yeah, rev Revit is a well known platform to kinda work and coordinate. I think the challenges that we have is sometimes that you do get information in PDFs and in cad.

And that has to be translated in three D. So again, that's not just in data centers, but it happens in other sectors as well. But yeah, a complex building like that, it has to be definitely done in three D and it's nice for the client as well, when the, before the building's finished we do a lot [00:22:00] of we use VR in, in AR technology as well, so you can put the goggles on.

With the client and navigate through the data halls and they can see the server rack so they can actually see what they're getting before it's built, which is always nice.

Stephen Drew: Yeah,

Muhammad Khan: buying a car,

Stephen Drew: that's it. That's it. And it makes complete sense. And I think as well I, one of the strongest arguments I've seen for, why. Perhaps Revit could be difficult for certain projects, especially if it's a record fit building. I know it's getting easier and easier, but for example, it would make sense, especially with so much is going on that it's modeled in Revit.

What I was gonna say though is on the theme of this, as in the Architecture Social, we talk a lot about. Getting jobs in industry. And Omar, while we were talking, said that he once interviewed, let me read it. He, I, Omar says, I once interviewed for a practice looking for someone to work at data center projects.

They were looking for someone with previous distribution experiences. Apparently it lends itself working well in data [00:23:00] center and that transferable experience. Do you feel it's true? And in what way is it similar to the typology, aside from the obvious scale and layout of the building? In essence, OMAS, I think, say that people or someone hiring for data centers was looking for someone.

Logistic experience. In your experience, what do you look for on your team then, when you are hiring people perhaps at different levels? Do is that important to you or are there many things that you look for in the person to work in your team?

Muhammad Khan: I think if the person has the same or similar sector experience, that's a bonus. I think nowadays it is very challenging. If that person doesn't have that sector experience's, not a deal breaker, we still do consider that candidate. What I personally look for beyond the software is the culture that, that person can bring for us.

Culture, unity, trust, transparency, respect is so important. Can you can I communicate with your [00:24:00] colleagues? Can you work independently? Are you comfortable to talk to clients? Things like, teaching a new staff member. The sector is the easiest part. I think I think the difficulty can be is the mentoring and getting them Culturally tangible to us sort of thing.

But yeah that's my kinda take on it. I think for me at the moment, it's all about kinda culture and, having that ability to work in a team sort of thing. Yeah.

Stephen Drew: Yeah. It's it's a bonus. However, you're right. If people are interested in the sector then you are open-minded. And now maybe building upon that, while I've got you here, because you know you're running a team, I. You're effectively the hiring manager as well as doing all these crazy buildings.

I'm sure you get a lot of applications and especially, part two or recent Architect, that kind of area. Mohammed, is there anything that comes to mind that sticks out for you when you are hiring that you think, oh, This person might be really good for [00:25:00] my team. Apart from the sectors they worked in, does, is it people that grab your attention?

They have technical aspects in their portfolio, they show the Revit? Or is it more than that? You wanna see something in particular?

Muhammad Khan: Yeah, what happens with with Steven Jordan partners is that the CVS and the portfolios will come through to our H department and then they'll come to me. Now, the way I look at it is that the fact that it's came through HR department, they came to through me, probably shows that you meet Revit, you can use it.

You're probably at that level. What sticks out for me is the interest and the hobbies. I'm a bit old fashioned, but. I was talking to someone about one of my our colleagues does paragliding in east eastern Europe, which, I found that was a bit extreme, but, it's nice to talk about these things.

It's nice to have someone with that kinda. Hobby. So for me it's all about what's different about them? What's their kinda u s P? 'cause I know they can use Revit. I know they can use AutoCAD [00:26:00] and Photoshop and all these kinda various standard platforms. It's how they're gonna fit in I and our, do they also wanna grow in the company role?

'cause our company at the moment, It's all about growth and technology. Are they willing to embrace technology? Are they willing to go that extra mile and grow as well? So it's just trying to understand that if it's a part two, do they wanna do their part three? If it's a part three, do they want to progress to a project Architect or a principle?

And and also, Ali willing to mentor others as well and do a bit of reverse mentoring as well, which is again something that we promote in the southeast. Yes, those little small things,

Stephen Drew: Yeah.

Muhammad Khan: for me, that sticks out.

Stephen Drew: It's nice that actually, I know I'm not saying that people did thought there were barriers going into data centers, but if anyone did think oh, haven't worked in the data center, I'm not too sure. It's quite nice you debunk that. If anyone's open for the challenge, I. Then they can jump on in which is really great.

[00:27:00] And you've had a lot of compliments coming in here for people. Talking about, what you've said, Jason also adds that behavior so critical. And that you have similar sectors as well. I've got an interesting quick one that. Berg has asked, actually, my goodness. We get a lot of interaction tonight, which is great.

Makes my job easier and keeps us on our toes. But Berg he asks, maybe I touched upon it earlier with the ai. He says, as we become more connected to web e g ai naturally, There'll be an increase in data use. What is the projection for growth of data sentencing in the next 10 years? Now, Mohammed, like you said, this space is moving so fast, so we're not gonna hold you to this.

But in your imagination or how it's going it, do you think it's a case of 10 years or is it gonna be crazy in five years? Or do you have any thoughts upon where things could be in the next 10 [00:28:00] years?

Muhammad Khan: Yeah, I think at the moment it's it can be very unpredictable, but I think from what people predict, I. It happens, there's a lot more happening, I think from what I'm seeing and the probably best example to give is, when, I'm from the v h s era. And if someone was talking about Netflix that time, you'd be like, this person's mad.

They're not gonna be streaming on our phone and watching, series on our phone. I think from what I'm seeing, the architecture's gonna be totally different. And.

Right now we are seeing the Architecture getting smaller and it's because the, we are finding that the servers and the chip power is increasing.

So where you've got existing buildings and you're refurbing I. The, there's a lot of fallow spaces being created so you actually can insert a lot more it white space. So that's one of the things that we're finding that the Architectural element is decreasing. So what you might find is that the actual physical data center power to power, [00:29:00] In the next five years, we'll be a lot smaller, but you, because you'll get a lot more storage in a smaller space.

But the other things that we are seeing is that micro data centers as well. So you're seeing these little pods or container units that house small power supply and storage of data server racks, and they're a lot closer and they're around the cities as well. So they're bringing their almost.

Kinda boost our data center closer to the end user. As well as that technologies advanced where we're using sub brain technology as well. Again, another web search company was has created the submarine technology. Dcs and embedded them in the North Sea to see what that kind of technology would be.

And it's actually proved to be a lot better because there's less human interaction, there's less error and dust and things like that. So these are the kind of different designs [00:30:00] that I'm seeing. But yeah, it's very difficult to predict 10 years, I think. So we are, we're trying to look at it from a five year probably plan at the moment.

Yeah.

Stephen Drew: I reckon, because like you said, or even you look at mobile phones, when the first iPhone came out, it's a revolution and like you said, it's the same size or they try to make it smaller, more and more powerful. So it's very interesting, like you say, I. That they would, there is the new data centers, but then there's also refurbishing an old one that would make sense.

And of course, I'm not sure whether you work them or not, but I always think of can Canary Wharf, like I'm very aware that all those banks have their own data centers and I imagine like Lloyd's, it's gonna be pretty old if it was when the building was built. So there's that refurbishment as well.

And is that something then, that you've done it or do you, have you focused on more new builds as well as refurbishments?

Muhammad Khan: Yeah we've done, I mean we've done a few where we've, like I said, an existing logistics shed that has been roed into a data center. A couple of the jobs that we've [00:31:00] also looked at where. Unfortunately we have either an industrial logistics shed or a data center that has reached its end of life and, as sustainable you want to be. It just works out commercially more feasible to demolish the building down, down and dispose the, the. Components responsibly somewhere and build a fresh new data center. You can be as sustainable as you want, but sometimes it just works to build new, and again, it's using the v h s example.

You're not going to plug your. Netflix, U s B and a us in a V H S video. Are it's just some of the components are just out outdated, unfortunately. And but we've looked at new builds new builds. You're seeing a lot of new technology. But again, it's a lot of it's happening outside of the kinda main city area where you've got more land and power connectivity as well.

Yeah.

Stephen Drew: It makes sense because I've, I haven't done it for a few years, but I've built a lot of computers. Used to [00:32:00] be one of my hobbies, and I still do, but if you've ever been on an old computer compared to today's a lot easier. And basically that analogy of what you're saying is that basically you couldn't refer the old computer because half of it's redundant.

So it's as well, you gotta buy new chassis and everything and build it from. The ground up, so I can relate to that. I've got one more question from the audience of this theme be before I'd like to bring it back to Steve George and partners. And you are, I got, you don't have to tread the line anymore about, oh my goodness.

I gotta say, I don't wanna say about a candidate I cry or of yours, or, So what the question was is do big most big tech companies outsource or do they have their own mission critical teams? I have seen multiple Architect opens that tech companies, but I'm not sure if they're considered as client reps or if they are in-house designers.

So very interesting question. Are you starting to see. Muhammad more roles for architects like yourself, client side, [00:33:00] or is it very much that traditional architects or experienced Architecture practices in this space are used? Or maybe is it a combination of both?

Muhammad Khan: I think I can, I could probably answer that in two ways. I think from what I've seen is that to build and be part of a data center construction team a lot of these large tech companies have like frameworks. So they put all their architects, PMs, and QSCs and one pot, and then they just pick and choose, and then they roll out the kind of project.

So the, it is a very kinda small click team sort of thing. And it, it works because trust builds up between the stakeholders and, everyone's kind of strengths and weaknesses and you work together and, it's better for delivery. One of the things I'm finding is that, To help the data center companies, and this is not all of them, but I've noticed with some of them, they'll employ an M e p or they'll approach [00:34:00] like an m e P consultant and they'll bring them in as part of their client side.

So it gives them a lot more knowledge. M e p, I've seen architects move. From traditional architect's roles to client, say data center providers, and then it gives them the data center company a lot more Architectural knowledge as well. That then they've got someone in house can, that can talk to 'em about planning and building regulations, et cetera.

And then, I've seen data center employer represents that I've moved to m e p and architects firms as well. So it's you won't realize it's such a small community that people do kinda jump about a lot. It's probably. I'm not sure if it's answered the question, but I could see that had to answer that question where you've got the build, then you've also got the personal kinda career growth sort of thing as well.

Stephen Drew: No, it you did do. And it's interesting and it makes a lot of sense and I can see the role of an Architect working in-house at a client who's gonna be making a data center, [00:35:00] especially when they're so complicated, might make your life easier as well. Who knows? It could be a welcome addition.

What I was gonna say. Two part question. So of course I wanna know more about Stephen Trojan Partners, but just last one, before we move on about that, we talked about the future where you predict things are, but I would like to know what you are excited about at the moment in 2023 or looking forwards.

What excites you at the moment? Mohammed's.

Muhammad Khan: What's say to me at the moment? I think for me at the moment is a lot of my time at the moment is with s u p Stephen Jordan partners in London, and we are very busy at the moment. A couple of things that I'm looking at is we are looking at Europe as well, so I didn't really speak about that.

But there's a large market. In Europe for industrial logistics and data centers and other sectors as well that, such as transport infrastructure. I am, pushing through our various contacts looking at opportunities in Europe as well. And I just as the UK the DC [00:36:00] market is booming in key cities such in.

Spain, France, Italy, Germany. So for me at the moment, Europe and, growth of the London office, but a steady growth not too fast.

Stephen Drew: Not too crazy. That's brilliant and so I love it. You touched upon it earlier, but just to expand upon it slightly in terms of, so seeing Georgia Partners established, they've been around for a good period of time, which is great. 'cause it's, it's a lot you can learn from.

Practicing Architecture over a period of time. But can you paint a picture then of your London office?

Muhammad Khan: Our London office. It was yeah, so end of September when I joined. Yeah, it was quite, quite a strange way of finding an office that was Again, working from home full time. We had a place, but we felt that we had to grow and be a lot closer to the city. So we were originally towards Holburn and the partners reached out and said where do you think Mohammad?

I said, [00:37:00] you have to be. In short it and, that's where all the that's the life of, clerk Andwell and all the kinda the RT area. So we, so our office is based at the back of Liverpool Street Connectivity, in London and outside London. It's really good. A lot there for client entertainment as well.

So I, I was searching for a place and it was literally like, dunno if many people experience searching for a flat, just going on websites,

Stephen Drew: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Muhammad Khan: did my spreadsheets and then we found a place and I. And we went for a more sustainable approach by looking at, we call it pre-loaded furniture as well, sustainable furniture.

So through a few of our suppliers we used our internal interiors team which are based in leads and they supported us and. Helped me with the design of the furniture the setting and the kinda planters and things like that. So it's all fitted out now and we've been in that office for two years now.

Two years and eight [00:38:00] strong. So we all feel but like I said, looking to grow. Yeah.

Stephen Drew: Brilliant. Amazing. I think that if anyone wants to check out they're at your website and I'll say it here. I know we're gonna shut down after one or two more questions, but it's www dot Stephen with a pH. Same with me, Stephen with pH, and then george.co uk. You mentioned you might be growing, which is great.

How do people. In terms of how do they get in contact with you, Mohammed? Can you tell everyone?

Muhammad Khan: I'm very much active on LinkedIn if Steven can can kindly share my LinkedIn details, please follow, reach out to me, connect. I'm best contact about contactable on LinkedIn and yeah. Happy to chat, talk, exchange ideas about Architecture, about data centers.

Yeah.

Stephen Drew: No, I love it. Now, before you go, before I let you escape, 'cause I know you've got a lot on, I normally love to do it a two-way [00:39:00] thing. 'cause it's only fair that I've, because I've got to ask you lots and lots of questions that you can. Turn it around the table and you can ask me one or two questions on the fly that I would not have prepared for.

And that could be about recruitment, that could be about the scene. That could be about the Architecture, Social. That could be all about online. It could be about, if I use AI or anything. Is is there, do you have any questions that you'd like to add, Aspen?

Muhammad Khan: I one, one of the things I do at Stephen George and Partners is that I co-run the E D I group Diversity group. And again, it's probably to have a chat to you about this and what your thoughts were. Our industry as itself is very male driven. And you can go on site and see, you can just see the numbers.

And one of the things that I've found very empowering and very satisfying was that we had a a design team meeting on [00:40:00] site at a data center site last week. And the project Architect that works for one of the dcss is a young lady qualified Architect. So I accompanied her. But we had four design managers.

At the D T M, they were all ladies, and the project director was a lady as well, and I was the only guy in the meeting and I was like, wow, we've came a long way. So wanted to ask what's your thoughts about how the industry's changing and what can we do about it,

Stephen Drew: Yeah, exactly. I think there's a few things coming up and which women in bims great. You've got women in construction, you've got nowick, which is great. And I think that the industry is slowly stereotypical. People like to joke that the industry before used to be, an older.

Men's boys club or whatever, we, certain demographics, and I think we're moving away from that construction. And I think empowering empowering everyone really that wants to get stuck into it. I think it's the right way to go. And actually I [00:41:00] don't know whether it's a geeky thing from before or whatever, or I think half of it with data sentences.

People don't know the opportunities then no matter what back what background they are. I think that half of it will be campaigning for that. But what I do think as well, Mohamed, is that in Architecture, less about. Backgrounds per se, but we all have in our heads when we design, when we go into it that you wanna be Renzo piano or whatever, and there's that seductive quality.

However, there is an art form, I think in data center design and also how. Strong the sector is in terms of careers and the fact that they can give you a stable trajectory, you're never gonna worry about, for example, the next covid, commercial offices are suddenly down the pan for a year and a half.

Now it's getting better. I think that data centers as a sector is one of the strongest to be in, and probably it's because it's [00:42:00] going up and up and because there's a shortage on it, you're more likely in a stronger position as an Architect to be remunerated more than maybe the an Architect who's in a saturated sector or in one that's not in demand.

So I think it's all about awareness. And I think it's all about unpacking it. And I think that how that's half the battle. But the other thing which I think is bigger than gender is actually the other thing in Architecture is through maybe. The Architectural apprenticeship schemes as well. I think that opening up to people from all different background is gonna be the next key.

And you as a progressive hiring manager, you can influence that as well. But Architectural apprentices is a new big thing. They think in the shaking up the the how to become a qualified Architect to make it shorter. Lots of people have a different opinion on that, but my my feeling is that we need to encourage people from different backgrounds and actually to do a study Architecture in [00:43:00] 2023, cost between 70 to 90 grand, which I couldn't afford if it was me back then.

So I think we have to look at things in a different way. What do you think? Throwing that back? Do you agree on what I've said?

Muhammad Khan: Yeah, a hundred percent. I got my degree from a traditional university, and it was the old structure where, you study for four years, go out, do your one year, come back to do your post grad. I. And then you do your one year again. And the thing is, it's such a long time without making any money.

I I personally think that the apprenticeship scheme works

Stephen Drew: yeah,

Muhammad Khan: I. If it's a fusion between, academic and professional practice, you can be in an office and you can understand how an office works. Whereas if you are studying for four, five, whatever years, you're doing all these lovely drawings, but you don't understand how an office works.

Now we actually had a work experience student in last week and she learned [00:44:00] Revit for the first time and she did it for a week and she said, you know what? I loved it because I learned Revit, but I actually, she could actually hear the kinda non-design bits of how an office was running.

She was hearing me talk about fees and contracts and, site issues and that is what they don't teach you, I think, at university. So yeah I think it is certainly. Us as a profession going out to universities and having that honest engagement with them as well. And the other thing is that, if we also reach out to the parents and speak to them about having that chat with your children that, do you want to kinda get into the built environment?

Can you, do you wanna be an Architect? Because there's so much you can expand into as well. I'm seeing youngsters that are getting into BIM, getting into c g I get into kind of digital automation as well, so you're not just limited to one thing as well, but it's yeah, it's definitely, [00:45:00] I think for me, I've seen it's growing for the best.

Stephen Drew: I think so too. I think that even in the last two to three years as well, I think people's attitudes on working in the sector has become less resistant. Because I think initially it could be that knee-jerk reaction. You've been thinking you're gonna be doing the next I don't know. Amazing tower and your reaction would be to go towards that dream for most people.

But I think now, especially when you've got good companies like yourself, good employers, you've got the work-life balance, but you can see the challenge in it as well. And how that technology's evolved. I think it's captivating people's attention. And if habit, the last time someone's watched this and they thought.

This is interesting for me that you can find you on LinkedIn. They can see your name here, Mohammed can, and you can find him on LinkedIn and Mohammad can, if you type in Mohammed can at Stephen Georgen partners on LinkedIn, you can find yourself or data sentence as [00:46:00] well. Is that the best way to get in contact with you at the moment then?

Muhammad Khan: Yeah. Yeah, like I said, I'm very active on LinkedIn please like share. I'd also follow Steven's Architecture Social as well, definitely, thank you. Thank you for having me on.

Stephen Drew: any time we, it's been two years in the making and in two years as well. I'm sure you can talk to us about how the technology's changed and we'll have you back on and then we can compare the beautiful data centers that you've shown today compared to the ones which, we'll, I don't know. Be the next wave.

So thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. Mohamed. Stay in this stage. I'm gonna cut. I'm gonna end this in a second, but thank you in the audience for joining us. And there's more content coming. I think I've got a schedule on tonight, but tomorrow we'll be going into the Metaverse. It might actually be hosted in when a Mohamed's data centers.

I, we, I, we wouldn't know and I wouldn't be able to tell you if I did. But have a fantastic evening and see you soon. Take care. Bye-bye.

Muhammad Khan: Thank [00:47:00] you.