Inside First in Architecture: Insights from Emma Walshaw

0021 - Inside First in Architecture: Insights from Emma Walshaw
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Stephen Drew: [00:00:00] Hello, everyone. I am Stephen Drew from the Architecture Social and I am joined here by Emma from First In Architecture. Emma. Hello. How are you today?

Emma Walshaw: Hi, I'm good. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me.

Stephen Drew: Yeah. No problem. Inviting you to the virtual studio. Everything online in this crazy world right now. Have you got a lockdown where you are right now, Emma?

Emma Walshaw: No, virtually everyone around us is. On some form of lockdown, but we've managed to steer clear of it for the time being. So we're making the most of it, making the most of our freedom for the time being.

Stephen Drew: Fantastic. And do you know what's really interesting? So I so first in architecture for anyone that hasn't heard.

of First in Architecture. Hasn't been to the website or anything like that. Can you give a little bit of an insight into what it's all about?

Emma Walshaw: Yeah, sure. So First in Architecture was originally set up for [00:01:00] architecture students. So it was just a little blog I had on the side that I would add little articles about things that I thought students would find helpful, like.

Tips and how to do assignments like site analysis, things like that. And over time it's kind of grown and now it provides a huge amount of resources for both students and professionals. So you've got like loads of downloads, lots of guides. to various aspects of like your studies, but also kind of professional guides as well.

And then from there, it's grown to have a few different construction detailing books. So I've got about five books now. And I've also got a Photoshop course as well. So it's all sorts of like different things that go on there. I post every week a new blog post. I try and bring out a new book every year.

And I've always have a few other little things bubbling away in the pipeline as well. So yeah, that's kind of it in a nutshell. Probably didn't do it justice, but there you go.

Stephen Drew: Totally did it justice. I love, I love the website. I found it a few years ago. It's probably important to mention. You do come from an [00:02:00] architectural background yourself.

Yeah, I

Intro: do. Yeah.

Stephen Drew: And you, so you worked in architectural practice for quite many years. And so first in architecture is all inspired by your thoughts. And currently you've just released your book on passive house, for example. So well done on that. Thank you. Yeah. So really handy resources for people that are looking.

Now, I actually found First in Architecture how I stumbled across it was because I used to run a recruitment agency called Shaped Careers. And at the time we needed, I felt like we needed more content as in needed maybe some guides, but we maybe needed some. information that a part one or part two would find helpful.

So you had a book at the time, right? And I bought it. And because I was like, well, I need some inspiration precedence, yeah? And on page two or three, it was like, you can look, use recruitment agencies such as Shape Careers. I was like, that's, I was like, I felt, I felt honored. I was like, we're in the book.

We're in the book. [00:03:00] The irony is we were looking at the book for inspiration from there. So, hey, these things go round and round, but that's when I, that's when I first found it. And it's interesting, like you say, it's changed over the years with where you wanted to go and what you've learned and what you thought was relevant because since then you've.

You've parked the, the, that aspect of what you did before and how to get a job in architecture and now you've focused on passive house. Has there been any reading reason behind that or?

Emma Walshaw: Yeah, I think there has. I think When I started writing about giving advice and sort of CVs and portfolios and getting jobs and stuff like that, I was very much in that world.

And I was, you know, whether I'd been looking for jobs, I did a lot of freelance work. So I was constantly kind of trying to drum up business, just working for other architectural practices and stuff like that. So I was in that world and very aware of what was going on at that time. And then as the website started to grow, I, I was sort of doing less work for architects and just basically [00:04:00] focusing on the website more and more full time.

And I started to look into kind of providing more advice, you know, with regards to construction and construction detailing, because that was something I really struggled with at uni. And I just felt like, you know, I'd be bashing my head against a wall trying to figure out details and stuff like that.

And there was never, in my opinion, I could never find the information I was looking for. So I think. I was looking at ways to help other people get over that big gap that I found I had when I was studying. And also as I was working, we were actually finding that, you know, you, you work on all these projects, you're doing details all the time and, and, and you're kind of like reinventing the wheel quite a lot.

And I was just like, you know, maybe for work we need like a bit of a manual or something we can refer to regularly that just has a set of details and you can. you know, not drag and drop, but you take the detail and then work it up according to the project you're working on and stuff. So that kind of, that's how I started going down the route of stepping away from something I felt I was losing perhaps the expertise in and [00:05:00] going more towards the detailing side of things.

Cause that was something that was, well, it really interests me for a start, but I felt like I could offer a lot more help in that area rather than, than in the In the job, job search kind of area

Stephen Drew: makes sense, makes complete sense. And you can tell as well from the books that you've done that your heart and souls in it.

I mean, I think it's great. I kind of joked a bit that I'm probably not the person to use it right now because I don't work. I, I, I've moved away from architecture, but it is fantastic. So yeah, no problem. And so, cause I mean. This is going to be all online as audio and we talked about earlier is it going to be video?

Is it going to be audio? And I love your home office. I love your ukuleles in the back. No one gets to see, you know, I, I, I play the ukulele a little bit as well, but I'm not very good, but maybe we can have a little.

I don't know if that would do as well as your [00:06:00] books, though, if you give me on the ukulele. But you work at home, right? In the home office. So what's quite great, because there's a lot of things that are happening right now. And I know people are listening to the future where we're really in the thick of coronavirus.

And yeah, even myself, I get a little bit fatigued talking about coronavirus. What's interesting though, is. You have for many years because of the physical architecture and because you've moved away from working full time in offices, then you were freelancing and, and doing, you know, proper professional contract jobs.

Now you work full time on physical architecture. So you've been used to working at home for a while, right? So have you got any tips for everyone or advice?

Emma Walshaw: Yeah, I have to say, I love working from home. I think that was kind of a goal of mine really was to be working at home. That's why I went away from working in offices, went freelance so that I could work at home.

And then, you know, then doing my own thing with personal architecture. And I think maybe that's cause I'm slightly antisocial and I'm like my own company and the dog. But [00:07:00] yeah, I mean, I think too. To be productive and be successful working from home, I think you do have to be quite disciplined. It's not for everybody.

And I really understand how a lot of people have been struggling with it recently because, you know, a lot of people miss that social interaction. Personally, I don't really but it's. It's about kind of having a structure to your day, being able to step away. You know, I'm really fortunate. I have a study so I can actually shut the door and walk away at the end of the day.

And it's like switching off those emails, which I'm still guilty of, you know, if something comes through just late at night, I still want to deal with it because I don't like to leave anyone waiting. So I'm terrible for just wanting to reply to email straight away. But yeah, I think. Having a structure and having some sort of format that you work to is really important and minimizing your distractions and, and being able to kind of shut yourself away.

But at the same time, if you're stuck at home all the time, you have to find that social outlet and, and have people that you can communicate with and share ideas. Because that's the [00:08:00] one thing I've found being in this scenario is over time, you kind of become a little bit distance from. From the sort of community and, and having something, you know, like the architecture social, allowing you to engage with other people, keeping an eye on what's going on and sharing ideas and things like that.

So I think that's really important as well.

Stephen Drew: Very interesting. I, what was it, what I echo on that is that. My constant battle as well, because right now, so I work in my current job, which is I lead an architecture team in terms of recruitment, obviously, it's a bit of a difficult time right now, and the architecture social was born out of being put on furlough and kind of for my own sanity, having something to do.

And yeah, you're right. This is amazing to have all the social aspects. And for instance, the reason we're talking is born out of conversations now. And so that's fantastic. Great. I am guilty though of what you were talking about where I find that I go over and above the time there and [00:09:00] I have to be really careful because you know it's like you have family, you have friends and I, I've got to be really conscious not to be that person stuck on my phone but sometimes because when you're building something you're, you're all in, you're excited and I think I have that thing from architecture school where you know when you end up.

Sometimes working those crazy hours and people are like, where are you? And you're like, I just got to do one more page. I just got to do one more page. So I need to work on that balance. And that's been an interesting one for me.

Emma Walshaw: I think it's difficult. I think so. For example, the ones that I can't stop myself from responding to is things where if someone's bought a book and then maybe having a problem downloading it, or there's an issue of some sort, I can't bear the thought of someone that's arrived at my website.

Just thought, Oh, this book looks good. I'm going to spend some of my well earned money to buy this book. And then there's a problem or they don't receive the link or something. And they're like, Oh my God, I just been scammed or something, you know? So I don't, I'm instantly like, I have to respond and make sure that they're happy because at the end of the [00:10:00] day, the.

The website's there for to help people and I want to make sure that I'm doing that. And I want to make sure I do it in a professional way. And so I think that's the, that's the thing that I find really difficult to ignore is when people have problems and they're emailing me with a problem. But having said that, I read a book recently called deep work and it's about, you know, being productive and getting the most out of your time and stuff.

And one thing they talk about is. is your distractions and things. And what I started to do now, if I'm working on something that like needs a solid chunk of time, I do just completely shut down my emails and shut everything down. And cause you know, that little red thing pops up on the screen every five seconds.

You're like, Oh, what's that? What's that? What's that? And you're just checking emails the whole time. So just shutting it down. And another thing I've considered doing, but I haven't been brave enough to do it yet is actually removing my work emails from my phone so that I only look at them when I'm at my computer.

I don't know if I'll get to that.

Stephen Drew: I've done it. And there's big gains and there's cons to it because you end up missing that one [00:11:00] calendar. So Chris Artis, for instance, is a really great guy. He did a podcast similar to this, and I was like half an hour late to it because it's my own show. Awful, I felt like that's why I'm extra conscious now.

And because I'm like, I might be a little bit like a half an hour late. And it's because I've done that. And when I've been watching the it on Netflix, The Social Dilemma, which kind of talks about this. Definitely worth you looking into Emma as well, because it's, it talks, it goes behind the scenes on Instagram.

It goes behind the scenes on Facebook and talks about these online tools. And what's interesting right now is that because of the architecture social and you have a first in architecture, there's a point where these social channels are helpful because. People could then become aware of your book and they find your book and that solves the problem.

So Passive House right now, someone's dealing with that and they're banging their head against the wall. Great. And the social medias have [00:12:00] because it's bridged that gap. is interesting about the social media though, it does have almost a little bit of a mind of its own and I've, cause I've had to set up a Facebook set up and I was never on Facebook, so I've had to make a Facebook account for all this and yeah, on my phone, it's just ding, ding, ding, ding, and it knows what it's doing.

So many people like this and then when you basically start petering off, then all these algorithms, they kind of kick in and go like. Steve's not really being on the site much anymore. Ding, ding, ding. And so I think like these are helpful, but then you have to find the balance. Cause if you think like you're working full time or you're talking about now working on all these and doing a book.

What have you, it's really distracted and all these things pinging off.

Emma Walshaw: Absolutely. And I think there's also like, there's a real pressure to be on every social media channel. So like I was never on Instagram. It's, it's just something I never really kind of got into. I've got a Facebook page for first and architecture and I kind of [00:13:00] was in Pinterest and I was fairly happy with that.

And then I, you know, saw everything kicking off on Instagram. I thought, Oh God, you know, first and architecture needs to be on there. So I set up an account. Oh, I found myself just spending hours creating content for Instagram, but it wasn't really going anywhere. I didn't really feel like I was helping anyone.

I was just doing it cause everyone else was. So I was desperately scrambling to kind of like get followers. And, and I got my first 1000 followers and I was well chuffed with that. And then the novelty kind of wore off. So I stopped using it. And then suddenly all these followers started like joining me on Instagram.

And, and, and I'm not even touching it anymore just because, you know, I'm trying to be careful not to spend my time doing things that aren't really. helpful to anybody. So yeah, it's, it's, it's a difficult one to find the balance, but also find kind of find where your people are, like, where are people engaging with you and your content and, and, and making sure you're present for them there and not spent wasting your time, like in areas where no one's really interested in what you're doing anyway.

So it's, I don't know, it's a bit of a kind of trial and error kind of scenario for me. [00:14:00]

Stephen Drew: Yeah. And that's what I respect our conversations because remember, so when the architecture social was going, there's kind of that groups area and I thought it'd be a really good idea at the time to have these groups there where maybe there's a first in architecture group and sauna has a scale group as Yeah.

The song is an energy. I always joke, if you could bottle it, I'd be a million. If son, if you're listening, see, she's everywhere. So I need to take some notes from you. Point is though, what I liked is when we were chatting and I said, Oh, we can set up a group and you're like, well, to be honest, I just worry.

I can't put time onto it. I can't invest into it. And, and what I learned about that idea of the groups is that. It's just another group. It was just like another thing. And, and yeah, you're right. Where is the value? It's kind of just a group of a group of group or a copy of a copy of a copy. And that's why I think you, you, what is what you highlight with the Instagram account before first in architecture, finding that meaning is difficult.[00:15:00]

And we talked about it a little bit before, but why I like the architecture socials, Instagram account now is because I showcase people's works on it.

Intro: Yeah.

Stephen Drew: Now I've had in the past when I've had a recruitment agency and Instagram for that, and you just think, what are you posting on there? And it's just like a picture of a building and you're like, please, please follow me.

Please follow me. And it's just, it's, it's like what you said. It's just, there's no point there. So maybe the The point is you, you did the passive housebook because you saw a problem. You enjoyed it. And you know, yeah, of course it's not always easy writing this stuff, but when you were done, when you finished it, you were, you were proud, right?

And that's the kind of thing you want to share. So I guess what I've noticed right now, especially when people are all on their phones, is that the search for meaningful content right now is difficult. There's so much out there. There's so much available, everything's available.

Emma Walshaw: Yeah, no, that's totally true.

But I think also another thing to mention about social media, [00:16:00] not that we're having a social media bashing session, but

when I go on Instagram, I also find that it makes you feel completely inadequate because you see all this amazing stuff that people are putting on there, like the content, not only from, you know, people that do stuff like, you know, other people that own websites like first and architecture and stuff, and you just, you.

You just think, Oh my God, how are they doing all this stuff? This stuff's amazing. And, and, you know, I think the same goes for maybe students or people that have recently graduated. You look around and you see what everyone's doing on, on, on these platforms and you think, Oh, my work's not as good as that, or, you know, how am I even going to level up to that?

And it. It creates a lot of anxiety. So even as a business owner, you know, you, you look at what other businesses are doing, you think I should be doing more. And then, you know, and again, you can kind of get lost down that rabbit hole of, of trying to keep up with everybody. And I think you've just always got to be working on your own story, working, you know, on what works best for you and kind of just [00:17:00] forging your own path, not following everybody else.

And, and this is, you can easily get caught up with that in things like Facebook. Particularly Instagram, I think.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, that's a really good point. And when you were talking about the, what I was thinking about as well, which is true, when, so when I started doing the online webinars and now I'm experimenting with the podcasts, there's this element of me messing around on the graphics and getting stuff out.

And I kind of, the other day I was looking back at them and I'm like. I don't like the graphics of them . I, I don't like, you know, when you look at some other thumbnails and I'm just thinking, oh man, I need to do some real work on this, or should I change them? Should I go back? And then I just call myself.

I'm like, no, it's done. Mm-hmm . I'll just make the next one better. Yeah. That's the future. Yeah. It's like the, I recently, I changed the logo and also when you, when you're developing this stuff, what I think is. I sometimes I don't get it right all the time, but that's exactly like an architecture.

Emma Walshaw: Yeah, exactly.

Stephen Drew: There's problems. I mean, there must be, [00:18:00] how many iterations of first in architecture have there been? It's probably evolved so much times, right? There's,

Emma Walshaw: and also it's not, you know, I'm not, there's a load of stuff on first in architecture that I would change, but it's just like, is that important or is it more important for me to just be.

Providing good content for people and useful stuff. And I think, you know, I think there's a problem with people in our industry anyway, being perfectionists and knowing when to stop and we're all very bad at knowing when to stop and trying to make it just that little bit better and that little bit better.

And, and I think, yeah, you just got to, I guess, way up in the balance of things. What's, what's important and what's not. And just move on and make it better next time. Like you say.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I agree. I think We are, there was always a story I was referred to when I was in, when I was in studio and it was second year architecture and I didn't have quote unquote the best project.

I mean, I got a 2 1 and there was someone in my studio and he was my friend called Ruben and I really looked up to Ruben and I felt like his project [00:19:00] was killer. It was better than mine. I, cause you know, sometimes you have someone and it's like that thing, I was like, ah. But, but what was interesting is that.

He spent so long on certain pages getting it perfect that when he submitted this work, he didn't finish the project and he had a worse grade than me.

Intro: All right.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, but this is the point of and this is what I say with people currently looking at the job search and the content that I produce. It's more about What you can do today, if you, if you're currently looking for a job, you get your CV and portfolio, you might tweet, you tweak it based on feedback.

You get it to the best you can, and then you act on it. If you're there sitting around with that CV and that portfolio, trying to play with the font, is it 13? Is it 14? There's a point where you've got to be like. It's like the old press. Yeah, get it out. Send it to print. Get it out to the press. And that's what I've learned.

And that's what I try to do myself. And it's very interesting [00:20:00] practicing this stuff, but as a human being myself, you slip into certain ways and I have to constantly remind myself of even my own advice, you know, that that's good enough. Now we can move on and so that's currently that. Yeah, that's where I've been at with the social and there as well while we're on there, we really go for the social media right now is that the architecture social is a social platform.

So there's a balance of doing it a way that's not pervasive, but then there's a balance that even I've noticed that people enjoy shout outs every. or an announcement or a notification once or twice a day. And if I don't do that, then people don't interact. But then if I do it too much, it's annoying.

And then you get to see the analytics behind the scenes. So, and I imagine this is the same with your website and looking at rates of how many people opened it, how many people downloaded it. You can't completely go down Pandora's box of the stats when Yeah, you [00:21:00] can,

Emma Walshaw: you can.

Stephen Drew: But you kind of got to bring yourself back to earth.

Because like you said, What is life about? Yes, work's important, but it's mental well being. If you sit in front of a phone, it's not going to work out. And I love the fact that you've got a dog, because I've got a dog as well. And a dog brings me so much joy. I, I remember once or twice I would be walking my dog and I'd be on my phone and then I'd just think like, what am I doing?

Yeah, yeah. It's like, so, and my dog's real, loves playing the ball and then I'm there holding the phone to my face. So you've, you've really got to snap out of it a bit, haven't you, and get a balance.

Emma Walshaw: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I think walking the dog is a really nice way for me to get away from work. And, well, I say get away from work, I actually have some really good work ideas when I'm walking the dog.

Cause it just, it does remove you from things and you look at things in a different perspective. But my dog's quite interactive. He likes you to be very involved in the walks. So there's a lot of stick throwing and ball throwing and stuff like that. So it is good. It kind of takes you away from, from the desk and makes [00:22:00] you actually move for a little while.

Stephen Drew: Yeah. I've got a Boston Terrier and let me tell you. Yeah, Dexter, his name is, and he does not rest. I always joke that if you wanted to, you know, a calm dog, my dog, Dexter's not for you. He will play the ball until he drops, you know, sleep, then play ball. Dogs bring so much joy. And I think that's the point of, there's nothing wrong with all these social media platforms.

It's just about control. And it's about getting something out of it where you enjoy it, but you don't want to be that person who's been on the phone for four hours every day. And also in terms of architectural practice and everything, if you're the person on your phone and you've got your speakers in all day and you're not interacting, you're probably not learning.

Yeah. You know, so there's definitely a balance. I think there's good aspects to these social platforms at the moment in the lockdown, where it's great to have zoom meetings if they were friends [00:23:00] or like on a Monday, we did a book club on the social, which was cool. It was five or six people, non recorded, just talking about the books, having a giggle.

I thought that was real. Yeah. And that was cool. But you can get lost down the rabbit hole for posting on Instagram. So, moving aside from that, what do you plan to do next on First to Knife Picture? Have you got any hot, juicy reveals that we can announce yet?

Emma Walshaw: I do have a few things I'm working on at the moment.

I've got another book I'm working on, which is another detail book which is It's all about loft conversions. So it's a fairly niche book.

Stephen Drew: Let's announce it. Oh no, my battery's gone. I'm my announcer. World first. Clips on, what was it, loft conversions. That's cool. I kind of, I want a loft conversion actually.

I've got a leaky roof right now and I had to poke myself up to get up there and I was just thinking, This would be a [00:24:00] really good conversion. Yeah,

Emma Walshaw: for sure. I'll send you a copy. So yeah, that's that's me trying to provide more of a service to the professionals and kind of offer more professional books.

So I'm doing more of a mini series of detailed books, which are like, you know, much smaller than the main ones I've done. So hopefully I can kind of produce them a lot quicker. So this is the first one in that. This new kind of details, mini detail series. So that's going to be loft conversions. And I've also got another website that I'm working on at the moment that I'm going to be launching.

I haven't got a launch date yet because it's taking quite a long time. So I'm just playing it by ear, but it's it's a detail library. So it's. It's going to be a platform where you can get hold of loads of different details and it will just continually grow. And that's pretty much all I'm going to say about that for the time being, but yeah, it's in the pipeline definitely this year, all being well.

Stephen Drew: Amazing. I love that because I remember when I was in practice, sometimes not knowing how to [00:25:00] draw a detail, you'd have one or two books around the studio, but it can be really difficult to find that information. So, and it takes such a long

Emma Walshaw: time. So, you know, I'm hoping it's going to be like a one shot. One stop shop to like, you know, getting the information you need and getting it quickly.

And you know, it all grows. I get feedback and stuff like that, but I'm wanting to basically. enable people to save themselves a lot of time by using, you know, the services that I'll come with first in architecture.

Stephen Drew: Amazing. And what I find inspiring is, so you went from being in industry there, then you, but you still provide a valuable service to people in industry based upon your experience.

So what's good is. You've kind of seen problems, you've identified problems from in practice, and now that's your business solving, solving problems. So what's quite inspiring is it's that thing of when you're in architecture, you don't have to be, quote unquote, an architect or, you know, an architectural [00:26:00] technologist doing one typical role forever.

You can. You can do other stuff and I've, I've met so many good people who work in architecture and then they've set up businesses like yourself for which support architects or they go into journalism or they set up a different kind of business and you can, you can do different things. So would you have any advice to anyone out there on maybe if they feel like they want to go into journalism, but they're too scared or to take the plunge?

Emma Walshaw: Yeah, for sure. I think I think when you're at uni, you, you kind of see this. don't you? And you just like, okay, well, I'll get my degree, then I'll go and work and then I'll, you know, go back and study and I'll end up working in a practice somewhere. Then maybe I'll, you know, make partner or I'll set up a place on my own.

And that's, you know, what a lot of people want to do, which is fantastic. But I think for the people that aren't quite sure you can easily get sort of pushed down that route as well. And it's not necessarily what you want. I knew that. You know, I went to uni quite late I studied first time round and dropped out after my first year, it was a bad [00:27:00] decision, I, I studied tourism and it just wasn't what I wanted to do, so I left and I went and worked for a few years, quite, yeah, quite a few years, and then I went back to uni to, to study architecture, and I, all this time that I've done all these different jobs in between, I think I was always quite unsettled.

So when I, when I finished my architecture studies I went into practice. And again, I, I did feel a little bit unsettled and I was like, Hmm, I don't, you know, this doesn't feel quite right. But you know, this is what I've studied for, so I'll just get on with it kind of thing. And then. I, you know, I realized I don't really like working in offices.

I don't like the normal structure of working in an office. I worked in some great places, by the way, and, you know, some really great people, but it just wasn't the day to day that I wanted. So I think, you know, being able to admit to yourself that you want something different to everybody else is part of the battle.

And then it's about just going out there and doing it for yourself and not being worried about failing because. You know, I, I was very tentative in setting up first in architecture and I secretly hoped [00:28:00] it might be able to earn me a living and then maybe I could earn a living full time. I didn't share that secret kind of dream with many people because I, you know, cause it seemed a bit crazy when I set it up.

But it did happen, you know, it's been a lot of hard work, but it did happen. And I think, you know, you've got to try things. If you don't try it, you're never going to know. And I think that, like you say, there are so many different things you can do with an architecture degree. And. It can, you know, all sorts of weird and wonderful things.

And I think it's number one. It's about doing the research and finding out what's available to you. But it's also about not putting yourself in a box and thinking, okay, well, cause I've done architecture, I've got to do this. It's, you know, I can do pretty much anything I want. I've just got to work hard at it.

So yeah, I guess it's just having a little bit of kind of bravery to, to do something a little bit different and put yourself out there.

Stephen Drew: It's definitely scary. I remember when I was doing it. It's exactly the same thing because of the time. So I was a part two and there was a little bit of pressure to do a part three on what it was is [00:29:00] that there's a few people in the EPR where I was working and they were a You know, signing up to part three and they're like, Oh, great.

Steve, when are you doing it? And I was like, in my head is the same thing you want about where I was like, yeah, I might do it this wave or next wave. You don't worry about me. You go ahead. And what it was is I wasn't confronting the problem that I enjoyed architecture, but it wasn't for me. And I didn't see myself as an architect.

And like now I'm involved in architecture. But at the time, I just. I didn't feel like I was that guy. I was not the guy who was going to read your awesome book on Passive House because because I didn't see a frill in the search or the problem. And so what I do now in terms of recruitment or even the social, there's a frill there because I like solving the problem and I'm invested.

I do it naturally, but in architecture practice, I kind of felt like I wasn't the guy for it. And. It was scary doing that and I [00:30:00] remember actually my dad was a really supporter of it because I told a few people I'm thinking of moving into recruitment and at first everyone's like you crazy you studied so long and spent so much time and I was working in a top 100 practice so but it didn't feel right and what was interesting it was my dad who was the biggest supporter because he was like yeah just I completely get it.

You should, do you do what you want? And I was like, wow, how, why are you not saying everything? Like my mom's a great support, but she was a bit like, really? Do you want to go back to, I think you're being a bit confused about it. So you should just bear with it more. But my dad was like, no. And the reason why is because he was an engineer and he used to work in a factory as a toolmaker and he hated the job and he hated it.

And he knew what it was like to work somewhere when you hate the job. I wouldn't quite say I hated it. But what I'm on about is when I was in architecture practice, [00:31:00] the day was long, I was looking at the clock. Yeah, exactly. And, and that was the same thing he said, when he was making tools, he was there struggling.

And what's interesting about recruitment of, hey, I enjoy it. It's definitely not for anyone, everyone. And what's interesting is not everyone can do it. And there's, let me say, there's not like I give up architecture and this is a breeze. It's difficult in different ways. But I enjoy it. And I imagine there's something that you have as well with first in architecture, like actually what you're talking about, setting up a website and writing a book is really not straightforward.

difficult, but you're, you're, you're drawn to it or compelled to do it.

Emma Walshaw: I love it. I'm really lucky. Every Sunday evening, I look forward to Monday morning. I'm very lucky. I love, I love working on it, but yeah, it definitely comes with its challenges. The amount of things I've had to teach myself how to do, like, you know, setting up the web, so many things.

But also. All the decisions I make [00:32:00] on the business kind of are all down to me and I can't, you know, ask a business partner's advice or a colleague's advice. It's all my decisions. So you feel very responsible. That, you know, I've just got to figure everything out for myself. I'm like negotiating contracts with like say advertisers and things like that.

You know, where do you find this information? How do you know what you're supposed to say? All this kind of stuff. So there's, it's been very hard, but I think I, I've almost not even noticed it's hard because I enjoy it so much. And I think for me, I really enjoy learning. So because I'm always having to learn something new, it's just keeping me on my toes the whole time.

So I love that, you know, and I think even with writing the books and everything, there's always more to learn. So it's. just keeping me, you know, really excited all the time because I'm learning so much. So I guess, like you say, it's, it's finding the thing that makes you tick and makes you enjoy going to work every day, which isn't something everyone can do.

And, you know, we are very fortunate that we feel like that. But yeah, [00:33:00] it's, it certainly comes to its challenges, but I do enjoy those challenges.

Stephen Drew: I love it. Yeah, I think it's very, very, very well said. Starting a business like your own. It's funny how, as you say, SEO, for example, and you learn all this stuff and for instance, tax and how you set up a company, this is stuff you'd never normally do.

But what I do, I agree where I agree with you is once you learn all this information as well you do take control of your own situation.

What I'm getting at with this is you feel a bit more in control, or I don't want to say the word powerful, but when you've done all this stuff, it's less scary and you're less dependent on things, situations changing, running your own business, you're in control of that, but you can actually make a lifestyle out of it.

You know, it's, it's very different than being an employee because as the employee right now, such as with coronavirus, I mean, you can be a very good employee and because the business is struggling, [00:34:00] you, you lose your job, you lose that. And so with the business that you've got, there's been advantages of like, for instance, right now you're doing well, it's kept you busy.

So there's definitely a lifestyle out of it, but that comes from. All the stuff you've learned before and all of

Emma Walshaw: yeah, and I, but then having said that, you know, the negatives are things go wrong. It's on

Stephen Drew: you on Sunday, someone who can't open their book. You're like,

Emma Walshaw: Oh, you know, and even like legal side of things and copyrights, you know, there's so many like worrying things that you kind of get into that you're just.

Trying to figure out as you go along. So yeah, there, there is an element of feeling a huge amount of responsibility and, and, you know, how am I going to pay my mortgage next month and stuff like that. But you know, it's all keeps you on your toes.

Stephen Drew: Keeps you on your toes. And you do develop, what I learned is you develop a thick skin.

You know, I used to joke that when you run a recruitment business, if someone nothing shakes you [00:35:00] anymore, a big tax bail, or, you know, you get, you get a legal threat for whatever reason. You're just like, Oh, here we go again. No problem. And that, and so that is really rewarding from it. But like you say, you learn from making mistakes and if you run your own business from my experience and see if you agree, Emma, you will make a lot of mistakes.

It just happens.

Intro: Yeah. Yeah.

Stephen Drew: You got to take down the chin. So, okay. Do you have, cause. I mean, this is, I've enjoyed this. Time's going quickly, but it's unfair. I'm asking you all the questions. Do you have anything to ask me? Anything you'd like

Emma Walshaw: to put me on the spot?

Stephen Drew: It's like when I'm interviewing questions, isn't it?

They go, have you got any questions for us? And you're like,

Emma Walshaw: I'm sure I've written a useful question down here somewhere. I, well, what do I want to ask you? Is The Architecture Social working out to be what you were hoping for when you started at Inferno?

Stephen Drew: Oh, okay. That was a good, that was, that was a good one, isn't it?

You're like, here you go with your big like rocket [00:36:00] launcher. Good question. Do you know what? I kind of I'm guilty of doing this as well. Like when I set up a recruitment business, sometimes I'd jump in two feet first. I didn't think about it too much, which is a blessing and a burden because there, there is no business plan for the social.

There is no, and I talk about it where you see it in 10, when people talk about jobs, I'm like visualize. Where you see yourself in 10 years, visualize where you see yourself in five years and one year. And so with myself, I kind of see where I'm at right now. I'm lucky to be head of architecture in terms of my job.

I'm lucky to have gone through a trajectory with the social low, my own, my own advice. I don't, it doesn't, it doesn't apply. So I haven't got a plan right now. And, and how does it look? It's kind of in one way, it's really accelerated where it's exciting is to me, I view it more like a stage as in. I've there's, there's a project called Cedric Price's Fun Palace, which is a bit of a, is really interesting an architectural project.

I studied [00:37:00] my thesis and what Cedric Price was about is that he spent a lot of energy building the stage in the, in the fun palace. The point was. Anyone in it can make anything they want. So there's limitless possibilities. But the interesting thing is with that, is because it was limitless possibilities, it didn't get built.

And so, so there's this constant balance I have of so this week, the book club, for instance, I thought was lovely because it's five or six people. We're really passionate about it. And it's real. Okay. It's not the biggest traction. It's not the thing that people attend the most, but it's real. And so what, what I like about the social is the beautiful things that I didn't expect to happen or get created along the way.

So the book club or actually thinking like, Oh, what should I put on Instagram? And it was like, why don't we showcase everyone's awesome work. Yeah. That would be really cool. So there. Those are the things that I found great about the [00:38:00] architectural social and where I see it going. I, I, the truth is, I don't know right now.

I kind of like enjoying seeing where it goes.

Emma Walshaw: That's nice because like you're saying, you know, these things do grow organically. You can have a plan, but things don't necessarily go according to plan. And, you know, you get feedback from people and you see what. People respond to and then suddenly, you know, it's become something completely different to what you expected, but it's way better maybe than you've expected as well.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I think my plan is to let or encourage, I think that's a better word for it, not like because anyone could do what they want in the social now are more like encouraging people. So the book club was not my idea. It was like, can we have a book club? And I was like, heck yeah, we're going to do a book club.

We don't, I'll set it up now. And then people came along and that was the great thing. And so my role right now is to encourage people to, to share. And you mentioned it as well, which I thought was really point and point [00:39:00] earlier of, it is really difficult to showcase your work and you sometimes you can feel like, Oh my gosh, this, this person's posted something so good.

I don't want to post my project. But my, I think my role is to kind of encourage the growth, but encourage people to add what they want and build what they want and, and to share. So that's my goal. My constant challenge is to encourage people to talk Or openly, or not feel judged. And I think that we're getting there.

But that's what I have to do. Where it will have gone wrong is when there's too many rules. So my only core rule is be respectful. No trolling. No abusive thing. Because I will kick you out. Because I ain't got time for that. I ain't gonna have anyone trolling on the social. You go right out. There's that.

I'll be like one of them bouncers in Berlin. I'll grab you by the scruff and take you out. But other than that, you can do whatever you want. And I think I agree. To me, to me, it's a [00:40:00] little bit of an experiment. And, and it would be interesting to see where it goes. I think the other thing I was going to say is.

I had the same buzz that you had, like the first thousand people that joined, I'm like, this is amazing. Yeah. And building up to that, that was a goal. I'm not going to lie. Cause it's like, can I get a thousand people? And then you get there. And now I think we're close to 2000 and yeah, yeah, it's awesome.

But it's the, my challenge will be to keep it to allow anyone who wants to contribute to join. And, but we has to keep that quality. It has to keep that organic feel, that family thing, that experimentation. If I lose that, then we're losing the magicness. That's, that's not to say that people can't join.

So I'm quite happy that it's, people are enjoying it, they're spreading the word, but I don't want it to turn into a Facebook. You know, I don't want

Intro: to, I don't want to

Stephen Drew: be that evil mark guy. You know what I mean? And I'm not interested in drip drabbing like [00:41:00] awful architecture adverts everywhere or anything like that.

I think it's got to be the core is it's going to be useful to people. And that's why. First in architecture was one of my inspirations. And that's why I'm so pleased you're here because I felt like it, yeah, it was helpful. It is still helpful to many people. And so we should be really proud of what you've done.

And you, you are one of my precedent. If this was an architectural report, you're up there. You're like probably one of the, you'd be, you know, I was like, I'm not copying the first in architecture, but you, I find you inspirational. So thank you. Thank you so much Emma. If anyone has not seen the website, can you tell everyone we know the web address, where you can be found?

Emma Walshaw: So the best thing to do is just come to firstlinearchitecture. co. uk. On the front page, if you scroll down a little bit, there's the option to sign up for my newsletter. So if you do that, I just send out after a few like introductory emails, I just send out a monthly newsletter to keep you updated with.[00:42:00]

So I'd recommend you sign up to that.

Stephen Drew: Amazing. Thank you so much, Emma. Have a lovely day and send, say hello to your dog. See you soon Emma.