Exploring Architecture: Career Paths, Personal Journeys, and Inspiration - 1 to 100 Podcast

0065 - Stephen Drew on the 1:100 Podcast
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Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome back everyone to the 1 to 100 podcast, the number one podcast to

solve all your architecture problems, shed some light on our personal experiences and help you in understanding the architecture world. It's season two, and my name is Amanda. I'm also joined here today by Naomi Bethany, Adonai Ray, Cindy Besmar, and a very special guest. But before we get into today's episode, I'd like to wish you all an extremely late Happy New Year.

2021 basically means that we can start the year over again every single month, so what's not to love about that? The theme for season two is understanding architecture. So what does that mean? Architecture is subjective and so it's essential to create a personal bond with design to add purpose, [00:01:00] value and innovation to inform better design decisions and also to aid your potential career path.

This is a season we'll be joined by a lot of professionals, designers, creatives and also architecture advocates to guide you in the right direction. Now, if you follow us on social media, you know that our guest this episode is the Head of Architecture Recruitment at Macdonald Company. He's also a former graduate at Westminster and Manchester University while studying his Part 1 and Part 2 in Architecture.

And as an active member of the architecture community, he even went on to become an associate member for both the RIBA and the Metaverse. and British Institute of Interior Design. And if you haven't already signed up, he's also founded the number one platform for different level designers all over the world to showcase their work, Architecture Social.

So ladies and gentlemen, it's Stephen Drew! Hello,

Stephen Drew: hello. You know what, I've got to stop signing up for stuff. I've got enough certificates, I've got enough stuff. That was the longest intro [00:02:00] ever, which I appreciate, but I'm like, I'm Right. That was amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. We got to, I'm going to do them a little bit of a celebration just before we jump in and we get serious.

I really appreciate the podcast. I've been a supporter from hopefully maybe not day one, but day two, day three, because day one's not realistic, but. I absolutely love it. So let's kick off with a bang. Season two, here we go. What do we understand about architecture, guys, ladies,

gents?

So good to be here. How are you?

How are you ladies? It's a pleasure.

Speaker 3: Great. I'm feeling good. How are you girls? I'm good. I'm positive. I mean, that intro was spectacular, so That was very something.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, that was mmm. Thank you, Steve. Very good.

1:100 Podcast Host: You know, you're bringing the energy. We need it. We need it. In this pandemic, honestly, [00:03:00]

Intro: what are we

Stephen Drew: getting? It's a stressful time for a lot of people. I mean, gosh, you know, you've got all the kind of stuff happening in America. I really sympathize, especially for any American listeners at the moment.

I'm sure it's quite a traumatic time and coronavirus is not ideal for anyone. And, you know, we all kind of thought it was Well, I quietly hoped that it, you know, they would just be one locked down and I guess it's two and three. So I can imagine there's a lot of architectural students out there, especially studying or people practicing now, which kind of thinking about where they go in with architecture or understanding it or how it's going to be in the future.

So it's probably a really timely, um, it's a, it's a good topic to talk about right now as well. Cause I mean, I remember when I was a student and it was the global recession. Because I did, when I did my part one in Westminster, it was the 2009 recession, and there was this horrible failing of You have to find a job during an economic crisis, and I imagine people feel the [00:04:00] same as well, or, you know, it's quite hard, you know, we talked about what the definition of understanding architecture is, and, uh, what I would say without going into the theoretical aspects of architecture in terms of literal stuff, I mean, you know, Actually starting a job is very different right now.

I mean, when I, when I started the job, it was going into an office. You would physically go into an office, right? Whereas in recruitment, what I do now is I actually, someone started a job on Monday and basically you're at home, aren't you? You're on the computer. You just got to make sure you can log in.

And it's kind of, it's a totally different, crazy idea because When I was a part one and how I engaged with architecture and how I understood architecture was actually going into a physical office and you can still learn a lot. And I think that what's interesting at the moment is the methods of how to practice architecture.

I think a lot of practices, especially at the start, it was almost like this kind of A crazy idea that you couldn't go into the office anymore, but we've kind of found ways to go about practicing architecture, which is [00:05:00] remotely. There's definitely challenges with that. There also comes a lot of opportunities as well.

So yeah, it's, um, it's a really interesting time. to study architecture. It's still an interesting time to work in architecture. And, you know, you still have really important causes. I mean, if you look at Nightingale Hospital, which BDP set up and a few of the architectural practice I work with, there's a lot of research and development.

A lot of people are helping out fighting the virus. So there's also a very literal kind of, um, there's a literal example of architecture right now, we're actually, we're kind of on the frontline helping with the virus as well. But what's your understanding of architecture, guys? Enough about, enough about me.

Intro: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think for me, my understanding of architecture is weird, because I was actually talking to Ad and I today, um, because, um, I think some of the girls in, in the group actually had a Clubhouse, uh, episode yesterday, which was on architecture and Brexit. [00:06:00] Okay. Somebody from the audience must have asked a question basically saying what does architecture actually mean to you?

And you don't often get asked that question at all, especially in education. It is literally just, you know, doing your plans, sections, elevations, client brief, and that's very much it. But what it means to you personally, sometimes we even get taught to take ourselves out of our projects. So. I think for me, I, I, what my, um, sort of vision for architecture is, is a very inclusive space and kind of bettering opportunities, but that doesn't have anything specifically to do with a building, it's more about people and communities, and that's my relation to architecture.

relationship if you want to architecture. Um, but yeah, but it'll be kind of interesting to see what it means to everybody else.

Stephen Drew: Yeah. I mean, I can tell you what I, um, it's probably important to mention before we kick off [00:07:00] is that, I mean, I don't actually work, I don't practice architecture anymore. I did it for three and four years, but what's really interesting about studying architecture is that if you, I mean, I really enjoy studying architecture.

You learn a lot of skills from it. And. And I would say the way I go about business in terms of recruitment and even building the architectural social, you could, you could argue that the architectural social in itself is kind of a design and it's kind of how I get my design kicks out, you know, because you're, you're, you're building something, you're creating something.

And while it's not, As literal as a building, there's a lot of facets to it. You know, you've got the exterior, you've got core mechanics within Architecture Social which work, some which don't. You've got people coming in and out, and it's how people engage and use the space. And I, you know, and I'm a very literal example of that within the Architecture Social.

So anyone that's not signed into it, you can request to join. But now there's about 3, 000 people there, and generally it's broken down with topics, groups, and [00:08:00] resources. And the group sections are really interesting. Um, scenario of, um, you have your group there as well as a few groups, which I feel have not been used as well, and it's really interesting.

It's a bit like a building, you know, you kind of put this room or this stage for everyone to use. And actually, I found that, um, the things that I wouldn't have thought people engage with are actually The most crazy, the most things with spiral, and I, and I think that that kind of, um, problem solving approach that I learned within architecture or working on architectural projects, um, translates.

I mean, in essence, the client is the audience. within the architectural social and you constantly have to adapt and change and, and move things around. And, and I would say that that's what I've taken from architecture. Um, the bit that I can comment on as well as having worked in recruitment, which is kind of like my nine to five job, as it were, um, helping people get jobs.

I've seen people [00:09:00] have different journeys in architecture and I kind of feel like a lot of them are valid. No, no one's the same. You, like for instance with me, my destiny was not as a part two architectural assistant. I did it for two years and in the end I was literally the guy that would try to sneak off around the corner not to do technical drawings because I just, I didn't have the passion.

I just didn't, and I didn't understand it as well. And, you know, Um, which, which almost made me feel a bit stupid at the time, but it's just that my energy wasn't there and I really wasn't someone who was, uh, pulling down the books and getting technical details and work it out. I just didn't, it just hadn't, it just didn't interest me at all, but I still love architecture and the point is, you can kind of, find a different career.

So I'm the cheeky chap who talks and recruitment course suited me quite well because you just get on the phone and talk and freestyle. But there's a lot of different things within architecture someone can do, or lateral as well. And I kind of, for anyone listening that's [00:10:00] kind of working out their journey in architecture, if you don't necessarily love what you're doing right now, then you're What I would encourage you to do is still do it for a little bit because you gain experience and you formulate an opinion on what you like, and you formulate an opinion on what you don't like, and then you can kind of maneuver your career.

But I think if I never worked in architectural practice, I would have regretted it. And actually, because I did work in architectural practice, it has enriched the way I recruit because I understand companies, you go meet them, you work it out, and also to relate to people when they're talking about what they're looking in their career.

So a good example now, you might, um, for instance, you might be looking, you might be someone that really enjoys going through mainstream architecture for many, many years. I've actually met a lot of people that do architecture, then they find out that they've got a passion for journalism, or they've got a more of a passion for interior design, and then it could be urban design as well.

And so people kind of go off into their specialties and as well as entrepreneurial stuff as well. You know, you've got the [00:11:00] architecture podcast, you've got all that stuff, you know, business of architecture is a really good example of. They do work in architecture, but they also consult on architectural businesses.

And yeah, you've got another good example of kind of, uh, supportive within the architecture industry, but which is not direct in architecture is you've got the, you've got New London Architecture and you've got also companies which do marketing for architecture. So there's a lot of different ways you can practice architecture without doing architecture anymore.

And I think there's a lot of value you can contribute to the industry. Um, but. My vision of what I, my understanding of architecture now is that the best use I can be to the industry is by offering value, helping people find jobs and hopefully inspiring some people. And as well as that, working on recruitment to find people with the right matches.

And so to go back to the original point, my understanding of architecture, if it was just technical detailing, do you know what? I would have just, I'll go back to [00:12:00] Waitrose. I'll go back where I was before. Do you know what I mean? I'd rather, I'd rather just stack the shelves because it wasn't, it wasn't for me.

I respect the skill, but it just didn't light my fire. And I think that I'm sure maybe a question to throw back to here now is that Between all of us, everyone gravitates to different parts of architecture, and maybe there's certain, everyone here has different things which interest them, and you feel like you understand a bit more, or you're more curious about.

So, for me, I enjoy talking with people, that's what I get paid for living, and now I've done the social and I get my kicks off. But what aspects of architecture do you guys enjoy so far?

Intro: Yeah, I mean, you really are like the magic matchmaker, definitely, but yeah.

Stephen Drew: Still a black, yeah. Surprise, surprise, surprise!

Intro: Um, Bethany, what do you understand by the term architecture?

1:100 Podcast Host: Well, okay, that's actually a hard question, but I [00:13:00] think I'll answer both your question, Amanda, and Stephen's also. So, um, in terms of what do I understand by architecture, it's definitely using your creative expression to respond to the needs of users.

So as you were saying before, Amanda, in terms of people, um, it's all about kind of catering to their needs and designing a space that really benefits them. And with the skillset as an architect, you can go beyond. what the client kind of expects and creates an even better spatial reality. Um, for me, I'm particularly interested in the whole psychology behind architecture, how people behave in the space and how, as a designer, you can influence well being, you can encourage and facilitate different interactions between people.

And I think that's the beauty of it, just Actually being able to design [00:14:00] to make someone happy, to make someone feel better in their mental health, to create a space. that people enjoy to be in, essentially. So yeah, I hope that answers the question from my perspective. You kind

Speaker 3: of, um, how do I even put it?

But you know what I'm saying, essentially. Yeah. And I think there's things that you can do in terms of well being, how people operate, how they kind of connect and talk to other people within the building. You can kind of encourage and facilitate those interactions to happen. And I think that's something that's really interesting within architecture that you can do.

So yeah.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I would just add to that point because I especially haven't done this for a few years. I mean, there's a lot of jobs. It depends what you want in life. But for instance, if you were looking for a profession, which is Purely for monetary value. There's a lot of other professions, which, you know, with the same skills we've got, because I feel like if anyone graduates from architecture, they're pretty smart, because having done [00:15:00] a degree and diploma, it's a, it's a bloody hard course, right?

But you learn a lot from it. And basically, No one can just, it's not a course where you can just, you just walk through it. You will be challenged, tried and tested, and that's the beauty of it. But anyone that does architecture is quite smart. The thing is though, compared to other jobs out there, okay, you're not going to earn a huge amount of a stockbroker or anything like that.

But to add to what you were saying is that you can change people's lives. You can actually improve it. You can like, again, You can help out with hospitals right now, or for instance, even, it doesn't need to necessarily be a hospital, but to add to your point, yeah, if like a school's an excellent example. I mean, I remember my school, the, the, you know, the paint was peeling off the walls and then I see all these new schools and I'm like, wow, can you imagine studying in that place?

And can you imagine the joy you would feel all these children coming in and, you know, Like, AHMM, they won a Sterling Prize for one of the schools they did, and I remember looking at it and being [00:16:00] almost a bit jealous, but happy, as in like, wow, what a great opportunity. And that really is the nice part of architecture, and that kind of makes it worth it at the end, you know.

So I agree with you. You can actually improve people's lives with architecture. Yeah,

1:100 Podcast Host: I was just going to say that, uh, yeah, exactly what Bethany was saying. Um, in terms of like my interests, like I never got to study psychology at school, but I've ever really wanted to. Um, and I've always found like behavioral psychology.

So interesting. Um, exactly what Bethany was saying, like the way people react and, Your, your physical environment impacts you greatly. And that's one of the things that I definitely like. Like, I, I enjoy kind of creating new spaces that could possibly address kind of, uh, the wellbeing of a community or like people for whoever, whoever the, [00:17:00] uh, the design is for.

And it's like, you've got so many different things that impacts people's lives, you know, from like changes in government policies to, uh, I don't know, like, like, yeah, the Brexit, you know, the things that are happening in America and. There's one thing that you can kind of like, manipulate to make things better, which could be like, uh, Yeah, like your, your bedroom, you know, it's just like what Stephen was saying, like just painting a wall, like changing it, and how that impacts your, your emotional and your emotional, um, yeah, like your, your state of well being.

Um, and it's just, It's really interesting to see. And like, I remember when we were in uni and I read a, uh, I did an essay about, um, phenomenology and one's, uh, I guess experience in this world, you know, through your psyche and through your body, it's very unique and it's very, uh, you can't share that [00:18:00] with anyone else and it's like how you walk through this world and how you experience something, um, that is so much bigger than yourself, you know, like.

It's, it's, it's really, really interesting. There's so many different aspects to it that, uh, can impact somebody's, somebody's life. Uh, just like Bethany was saying, like, it's just really, it's a really cool thing, um, to do. Yeah, I guess that's probably what architecture in a way kind of means to me, it's more I guess about like a personal experience and the journey through an environment and what that means to people, because it can mean so many different things to so many different people.

Intro: What we've spoken about so far, there's definitely a theme of empowering people through their personal experiences. Do you feel like this was? taught in architecture school? Do you felt, did you ever feel like your projects motivated you or [00:19:00] sort of tailed you in the direction of empowering people? Do you think that's something that the education system perhaps needs to improve on?

And I'm going to throw this question at Cindy,

1:100 Podcast Host: I think it was not pushed enough definitely in higher education. I think, um, I came to be more aware of it just through life in general after university and, uh, just through joining the one to a hundred podcasts. And seeing how everyone and thoughts about it was, because I think in higher education, um, as we were speaking about yesterday in the clubhouse, I think higher education doesn't push the idea of community, the idea of getting things that you would learn how to be like an architect in higher education, but you learn about it more of in higher education.

That's for me as the experience outside of the higher education, I believe.

Speaker 8: I agree with that [00:20:00] as well. I think in architecture school, they really push you to like read books on studying like human behavior, the psychology and everything, but then they forget that the most important way of Learning that and discovering that is by actually talking to people and actually interacting with them.

Like, we should spend, we spend most of our times in the studio and the only time we actually interact with people are with people that actually study the exact same thing as us. But we don't actually, within our projects, um, we're not given the opportunity to actually, um, Generate conversations with people would possibly be involved in our projects and understanding the relationships between contractors and architects and, you know, I feel like Understanding how an architectural practice works is very important, but also in our projects, we have these like imaginary clients, um, and I feel like we should have projects that are a bit more realistic, um, a bit more tied to reality, especially with what's going on with, what's going on [00:21:00] around the world like that.

I feel like we need to be more grounded as designers, but we could still use our imagination at the same time. Like, that there needs to be a sort of balance between the two of using our creativity and imagination, but also being very grounded and, um, related, um, being more grounded with what's going on with the world.

And, um, yeah. reflect on our design and our thought processes.

1:100 Podcast Host: Sorry, to develop on that point as well, again, from the conversation we had on the clubhouse yesterday, um, I think it's very important to include, um, practice into education, because I think that's when, as in, you know how in construction you have the year away, And where you work, I think it's very important to have that part of the degree because it's very difficult to go into work and a lot of people be asking for newly graduates for experience when you don't have some.

And, uh, I think it's [00:22:00] very important to include that as the part of the education so that we also become more aware of what being an architect really is. Not only the education as in the learning, the history, learning the theory of it, but also the practical, the and understanding of working group. I think also in education, when you say working in group is also still in a competition.

So you're working with your peers but you feel still in competition on who's going to do best whereas working in practice our boys are more of a collective, um, people putting ideas together. So I think it's very important to add that in the education system for architecture.

Intro: The end result of an architect, I mean, there's not like an equal playing or a level playing field to basically get there if you get there.

Essentially. 100%, 100%. I don't know, could you perhaps explain what architecture means to someone who isn't quite familiar of what [00:23:00] architecture is? So I know for a few people that actually studied it, obviously we have a very clear understanding of what it is, but how would you explain that to someone who hasn't studied it before and is quite new or familiar to architecture?

1:100 Podcast Host: That is a loaded question because I think architecture is subjective to each individual person. I think there's so many faces, layers, and components that make up architecture. But in its simplest form, I think architecture is a composite of design, psychology, planning, construction of the building and places that we know today.

But most importantly, it's for people. Um, I believe like an architect can be an anthropologist, they can be a psychologist, um, because there's more to it. And sometimes, um, I believe most of the time architecture is misunderstood, it's misunderstood. Because, essentially, if we were understood as a profession, we would be [00:24:00] paid more, or people would know what we actually do.

And, yeah, I believe that this is why it's important for the Fiend to be understanding architecture this season. So that people can understand it. know and hear our passions, our stresses and perspectives and really understand what architecture is because I believe that our work is often reduced but it's actually a huge, huge task.

It's very subjective to each individual having the degree and saying, you know, you've done part one, part two, part three, I'm an architect. To me personally, architecture to me is like being an artist. It's like creating that and you have an empty canvas and creating a base where people are going to create their art inside.

So the art can be experiences, people can bring in families, memories and everything. That's what being an architect to me is creating a place where people can create memories and create history.

Intro: Well, I'm going to move on to the next question. Stephen, obviously you run the [00:25:00] Architecture Social platform.

didn't mention this earlier, but do you want to just give the listeners a little insight on what Architecture Social even is?

Stephen Drew: Well, it's kind of a good time to talk about it now because earlier we touched upon the aspect of. It's hard to get a job in industry or transitioning from academia to professional practice.

And there's a lot of things that I've learned since I was a part one, mainly in recruitment. I've seen practices, I've seen things from the sideline. I've seen now what it takes for people to get a job. I've seen the kind of things that employers gravitate towards. And, you know, you were talking about the chicken and egg example earlier of actually it's highly desirable for an employer.

Or, or an owner of an architectural practice to hire someone who's already worked in an architectural practice and has worked on technical details. But if you don't have that, it's quite hard to get an industry. It's quite hard to know what you're looking for. And that was kind of the part of the inspiration of setting up the Architecture Social.

So the Architecture Social is www. architecturesocial. [00:26:00] com. You guys have a group on there as well, which is really cool. Basically, it's kind of an open platform where people can do what they want. I mean, my definition of it. In the spirit of this conversation, a bit like practicing architecture and how I feel about architecture has changed all the time.

When it started, the Architecture Social, you guys were there at the start. It was about three, 400 people. Now it's like 3, 200 and it was purely focused on what I felt I could bring to the table on offer value, which was kind of helping an architectural student to find the job during the difficult time, based on the fact that I'd done that before and based on the fact that I recruit for.

Famous practices and not so famous practices. I've, I've helped people before, but I know that architectural, no one, the way it works is part ones and even part twos to some extent, recruitment charges a fee. So if an architectural practice hires me to find a healthcare architect, there's a cost because it takes me time.

That's, that's, that's my job. [00:27:00] And the reality is you've got so many students who try to contact recruiters. And they almost don't have time for students. And that was kind of, um, my inspiration for setting up the Architecture Social was to try and give a bit of information. But because I studied architecture and like you guys, my definition, a bit like what Cindy said earlier, is my definition of architecture is I design in some shape or form.

I was like, right, we're gonna, I can't remember. I must've had a few, maybe I had like a few gin and tonics one night and I was like, no one's registered the domain architecture social. com. And then I found this. Uh, which is now the platform is built on the mighty networks. And I was like, this looks so cool because it's a community platform, which I felt looked good.

Right. Because half of them are like, uh, uh, God, you know, it's like, it's like Mac for this window, some of these community websites, the actual. Uh, platform's really clunky. I felt that the Architecture Social was quite clean and crisp. And so it was doing stuff on that. And since it's growing, we've [00:28:00] got now got a book club.

You guys are on there. There's, um, I've done CV and portfolio reviews, which I find fun, but I, I've got to find a bit more time to do it. And, you know, from that has become the Architectural Social Podcast and a few others. So it's kind of evolving in the theme of this, because I still classify myself as.

It's designing an architecture, even though I don't do it. So for anyone that wants to check it out, they can go and join us and get part of the conversation, but it's like everything in life that. Like you were talking about earlier, uh, architects, you need to speak to your clients, need to speak to each other.

Actually the best teamwork in architectural practice is that all this stuff comes from collaboration, comes from networking. And when I say networking, I don't mean in a room with a business card. So you're going like, hello, I'm on about actually getting to know people, working out their strengths and weaknesses.

Um, the architectural social, I see it as like community hub. And, and so that was, that was part of my goal is to kind [00:29:00] of. Okay. Create a place for conversation.

Intro: You say that this is your job, but you can just tell that it's your passion. Although it's something that you do day to day, it just fits in with your personality.

This is actually the thing for you. The fact that you worked in practice and now you've created a community for people in a similar position to what you were in, you're basically saying, you know, don't give up if you don't get the job or don't give up when things are getting tough because there's always.

a way into it, somehow, some way. And this platform definitely shows that. I mean, you can connect with doctors, people with a PhD, students, like everybody is literally on the same plat like on an equal playing field. Definitely commend you for like creating an equal playing field for everybody. And just to

1:100 Podcast Host: piggyback on that, one thing that you said before Stephen was like, you know, um, architecture for you is like, In terms of the architectural social, like the audience is the client, and I think it's just so interesting that you've [00:30:00] made what you're doing your own, and I was talking and having a conversation with Amanda, um, before having this, um, um, podcast, and we were just saying that You have to make architecture your own, um, in order to make it, because I feel like sometimes we get so down because we can't make, we can't get a job, but you need to remember that every journey is different, and it's just so nice to see that you've made your own journey work for you.

Stephen Drew: I mean, when I was, you remember back in the A levels, you know, back in the old days when, remember when we didn't have a care in the world and the biggest stress was like, I don't know, passing your A level exam, no one predicted this virus would come, right? But I remember at the time, the career advice, because I studied geography, graphic design, and IT, and I didn't have maths, I didn't have art, right?

And guys were like, you can't do architecture. And I guess I do, one of the things with my personality is that I get driven by certain things, and it's a strength and a weakness. So if I'm not interested, I'm just awful. [00:31:00] I just can't do it. I'll be that guy, That's just not useful and not helpful, unfortunately.

But when I'm passionate about something, I go 200%, which is sometimes at the detriment, because I'll be tired. I'll, you know, not sleep. I'll be talking crazy stuff. I won't be as engaging to certain friends because in my mind, I'm thinking about something. But when I'm passionate, I chase it. And so he told me I couldn't do architecture.

And I thought, you know what, I'm doing it anyways. And I did it. And basically. It's the same thing where later in my career as well, I mean, I, when I was studying, uh, when I, so when I was a part two architectural assistant, I didn't really feel that, um, didn't feel that architecture was for me continuing to practice mainstream.

I was like, I think I'm gonna look at something and I'm gonna look at recruitment. And everyone thought I was crazy. You shouldn't do that. You've given up a great job. You spent all this money on a degree, diploma. What do you, you know, what about that debt? What are your parents going to think? All this stuff.

And then I was just like, well, just bear with me. [00:32:00] And then I did it because I thought it was right for me. And it was, it was scary at the time. It was really scary because you're thinking, yeah, I'm giving everything up. I'm like, I might have failed architecture. You know what I mean? It's just like, And then I did it.

And then when it started going successful, then people go, Oh, I knew you could do it. And you're like, hang on a second. And then it happened again. I, cause I left a recruitment company to set up my own company, which at the time was completely crazy. And everyone said, don't leave the job and set up a recruitment company.

And I backed myself and actually didn't go a hundred percent. Well, because that split up after two years, because. Um, me and my business partner at the time, we just wanted to take businesses in different directions. We went our own way. But the point was you're all, I own the mistakes and that journey that I've created is actually the failures as well as the successes have got me to where they are, where I am now.

And I guess that I've taken a completely unconventional way in [00:33:00] architecture, but I think by doing that, I can hopefully offer more value than me being unhappy. As a Part 2 Architectural Assistant, and that was just for me, but I can offer more value, like you say, in doing the Architectural Social and doing good quality recruitment at McDonald Company where I help people improve their lives.

I mean, I'm not interested in just putting people into jobs for the sake of it. There are other recruiters which are like that. Not everyone, unfortunately it's a small minority, but that gives the reputation. And I think a lot of recruitment, when it's about doing the right thing, people stay in their jobs and they're happy.

And that's what I've learned from as well. So, long meandering question, but that's kind of, I think is really important. So for anyone that's a bit miffed with architecture, I would encourage you to keep going, but I'd encourage you to look at how you can apply your skills in other vehicles as well. And everyone's different.

So you might be, while you're studying architecture, if you've got that passion for art and design, do it on the [00:34:00] side. I mean, the architectural and social is something that I do in the evenings while working at McDonald and Company, and they both complement each other really well. But I've seen examples of people.

do their artwork. And then it takes off. A really good example is a friend called Will McDaniel. And Will almost doesn't say he's an architect anymore, but I, I studied with him and basically now he's a massive YouTuber. So if you type in Will McDaniel on YouTube, he's got 600, 000 followers. He's got a salary, you know, he can support himself from the channel, but he was not a part two architectural assistant.

And when I lived with him in universities, he was creating all these monsters everywhere. And he had this insane, like, um, uh, imagination. And he's got, and you look at his channel, my father thinks, It thinks it's brilliant, but it's like, it's a bit of a weird channel. It's got monsters and all this creative stuff, but his passion came from architecture.

And he went to Oxford Brookes in his part two and he was in a course, a particulist [00:35:00] studio, which, which were really fascinated with film. And so he would work during his part two and he was telling them, we're talking today and he was like, yeah, I used to, You know, go home in the evening with my girlfriend and I'd be there, watch cooking and I'd be editing the video.

But the point is he went with his passion and now he's this creative YouTuber. And I see a lot of people when they look at it, they see the monsters, but actually I see him, I see the, his inspiration. So for anyone listening, you've got to chase your Dreams, you got to

Speaker 8: face your dreams. I feel like people like, definitely, I feel like people definitely read themselves as like, they sort of define themselves like through like a CV, like when you're so consumed by like looking, looking for a job or, you know, trying to appeal to a certain employer, you start narrowing yourself down too much.

You don't realize [00:36:00] that you're not just defined by your degree or defined by like, What education background do you have? Like, there's a much more fluid approach to everything, to, to the journey that you want to go to, and even that journey that you want to go to can even change. Nothing's so fixed. I think with studying architecture, people don't realise, I feel like it's, we only realise this afterwards, but We should trust the skills that we learn and trust ourselves as well and our personality, like our personality drives a lot of what we do, who we are as people, and that's what makes us different to each other.

Still apply those skills and know that those skills are not just applied to architecture, you can use that in everything, whoever you end up working for, if you even work for yourself. would see that, but yeah, onwards and upwards.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I just had a quick note on that. You do not have to just do your part one, part two, and part three.

And that is not the only way to do it. You know, I've seen lots of other people. I mean, Heatherwick, he's not an architect, right? He's an honorary member of RIBA, but he's not, he doesn't pretend he is. There's loads and loads of ways that you can contribute to [00:37:00] architecture in a broad sense without going down the traditional means.

So, Do try and if you, you know, if you, if you enjoy it, then it's a great way to do it, but it's not the only way.

1:100 Podcast Host: It's actually really inspirational hearing like your story because, um, especially like you were able to kind of create your own space in the industry and the market and it's gone successfully well.

And I was even going to think that maybe this crisis. Um, is kind of a blessing in disguise because maybe many more people will then combine a different passion and different interests with architecture to create something that you have done as well. And that probably wouldn't have even happened, you know, without the pandemic or without Brexit and all these things, because you're having to think in a different way.

And I think the industry like kind of. Craves this creative, uh, conventional architect that fit really well in architecture because it's such a creative field, but basically what I wanted to ask was that you saw that, you know, there was kind of like a misalignment between students being able to get jobs and you as a recruiter, you [00:38:00] were able to kind of like fill that gap and create a space.

What is it that Students are missing or like that recruiters have a specific knowledge that can get them there. If that makes sense.

Stephen Drew: Good question. So no one, because there's a financial trade there, right? So the client is what is the architectural company would hire me and to find someone and they would pay me to do that.

So. They're never really going to be looking for a student or an architectural assistant because there's a lot of CVs there, nor is it a good use of my skills because basically I'm normally, I'm brought in when you need something strategic. So for instance, a restructuring of the company, or for instance, The company wants to get stronger in BIM and I'll look at how it's set up and I'll kind of consult and help out.

And you're right. What I wanted to do is because students don't do anything wrong. It's more about how many students I've met over the years. And I remember me and I remember being in the studio and I remember everyone's different approaches. And actually what I've seen behind the [00:39:00] scenes now is there's a few ways to go about it for you to maximize the impact.

Um, your visibility, put it that way. So when I, the stuff that I talk about in the Architectural Social and that I try to talk about is, it's less about, I'm not here to be the design critic, uh, it's, that's been and gone. You've been in academia. What I'm talking about is. How to grab someone's attention really quickly and how for you to be in charge, be in charge of your own destiny.

Oh, that sounds quite, uh, Ooh, I need to put on like a sound effect, but I'll leave it. But basically I need you. The best thing that I realized I could do is kind of give you the advice and the tools and the tricks, which I thought would be, I, some, it would be nice if someone told me. So for example, I think, One of the things in architecture, we all aspire to work in the best architectural practices and it's really tempting to write a bespoke CV to 10 companies or, and even then you spend one a day, you research it.

And that's [00:40:00] nice, but especially during times like this, we've got to be really realistic. And I think it's really unfair of some companies saying that you should just, you should hand deliver a CV and portfolio to the office. Okay, that's great if it's like your dream one. Okay. And do that for one or two, if you want, and, but the real world that I've seen is that when I was a part one, and there was, it was the global recession, I sent my CV out to a thousand companies.

Okay. And I love, the first thing I love to challenge people on is, We've got to, you've just got to think about probability. And so the more architectural practices you send your CV to, the more you increase your chances. From there, a thousand, you're hopefully going to get 10 to 20 interviews on one to two offers.

And the bit, as I think, is that you can be very particular where you want to join when you've got a few offers. But actually, any architectural practice in the industry that you're going to go to is going to offer you experience because [00:41:00] Remember, if it's not the ideal experience, okay, that sucks a bit, but you're gonna go there and you'll go, you know what, now I know what a bad employer is, or now I know what it's like to work in a small architectural practice, or now I know what it is to be at a great architectural practice so that in the future, if you change, then you go, oh wow, these guys looked after me in this office, it wasn't so much.

So you're constantly formulating your own experience and really to bring it back to it, that's what I wanted to do, I wanted to kind of empower. You guys to go for it because everyone has got it. And I really believe there's a job for everyone. I don't believe at all that if you don't get, if you get this certain grade, if you don't get a 2.

1, then you can't, it's absolute nonsense. There is a complete job for everyone. Confidence is key as well. And I think it was just about talking about that stuff. And then to be literal, what I learned is that, So say now if one of you guys rang me up during my job, I would only have a minute or [00:42:00] two spare to talk to you, to try to give you a bit of encouragement, and then you go on your way in the big world looking for somewhere, which is, which is quite overwhelming, so actually, the way I try to do it now is, With all the courses and stuff that I'm doing online, it's more like if I spend an hour's worth of energy, now when someone's looking for a job, I just say, start here, start here and building up this, this course.

But with that comes accountability. And so for anyone listening here, I've got all the videos. You can check them out on the Architectural Social YouTube. You can read them all. You can watch them all. You can put them in the background of, you know, we've got it all on Spotify. But you've got to be accountable for it, and when you listen to it, the bit that I would love to urge everyone, because everyone here can do it, but I want you to be your own boss, and I want you to think like, right, I've heard that, tomorrow, I'm not going to send two CVs, I've got to send 10, I've got to send 20.

And I think if you have that attitude, And with the stuff that I talk about or anything, you [00:43:00] can get a job. So if anyone even has been struggling to get a job for a year or two, what you've got to do is not blame yourself. You can't be down. You can't think like I haven't got the skills. What you've got to do, though, is you've got to think, right, I've got to mix up my approach here.

We've got to realize that we're in a pandemic. We've got to take a little bit of a different way. And we've got to be a little bit more ballsy. We've got to be, pick up the phone and ring people, which, May is the idea makes everyone uncomfortable. It made me uncomfortable, but you got to do it guys. And if you do that, actually the trade off is you're more likely to, to, to get a job.

So again, the, the stuff that I'm talking about is less about quote unquote architectural, but the bit I'm interested in is In, in terms of the architecture business is how to get people jobs and I've seen a lot of people in the social actually use the kind of things we talk about and they've got a job and nothing makes me more happier.

And so I think that's the way to go about it. And just to [00:44:00] briefly touch upon. Um, the point raised earlier about the architectural social being made in a pandemic, you're completely right. I mean, I was working nine to five, a McDonald's company, I would travel an hour in each way. I probably wouldn't get home till eight o'clock sometimes, and I was so consumed running a team of architectural recruitment consultants and And that, basically, in March, when the coronavirus came, everything stopped.

Everything stopped. And I was just there. The first month, it was fun. You go on Netflix, I had a gin and tonic, and you know, you're just, you're just cracking on, and I was absolutely having the right giggle, having a laugh. But at the second month, my mind was going, um, how do I put it? I was feeling unfulfilled, and actually, That's when the platform came from.

So as much as people gain stuff from it and hopefully they gain a bit of knowledge or they speak to each other, but actually I gained something from it cause it keeps me busy and it keeps me happy and keeps me active, but everything's in balance. [00:45:00] And I think a lot of architectural professionals, and I'm sure you guys I can agree as well.

I'm sure a few of us all have done it where when you're in, when you're consumed in the projects, you do all these all nighters and stuff, and it can be a bit unhealthy.

Intro: To be honest, you seem like such an innovative, creative, like forward thinking person. Everything that you seem to have achieved so far seems not, not even like it's strategic, but it happened because it was meant to happen.

And I just want to kind of know, like, were you this sort of person? You seem like you're quite An extrovert almost. Were you this sort of person when you were in school as well? Is that something like, like, a characteristic you developed or you've sort of just always been like this?

Stephen Drew: And hopefully it's inspirational in one way.

It's no, I wasn't all the time. It's bizarre as I actually felt a bit when I was an architectural assistant. In university, I had some good ideas. I was very good at graphic, the graphical aspects of architecture. I was not very good at technical and I kind of felt a little bit insecure about it. If I'm being really honest, I kind of felt like it was [00:46:00] like my undermining, but at the end of my part two, I did actually tackle it head on.

And I did a project where I forced myself to understand all the technical aspects. And that made me feel better because I was kind of confronting my own weakness. But when I was in architectural practice, I didn't feel very good, which is, I felt very average. And, you know, I think basically, before I went into recruitment, while I was looking for a job in recruitment, I had the offer of a job in recruitment, and I was about to get my notice in, and then I kind of put it off a little bit, because I was like, Oh, I'll do it in a day or two.

I was made redundant! And so they, they got They got rid of, um, in EPR. They were a great company, but because they were struggling, there was, there was a wave of redundancies. And, um, and they were, I was like one of 20 people and I was made redundant. And that was like a massive blow to the ego. Cause I was like, shit, I've been made redundant.

I'm, I'm redundant. Right. And so I was just like, I remember speaking to my dad and I was like, I've been made redundant? [00:47:00] But what was mad is that I actually had a job offer for recruitment and I was going to go anyways. But it was still a massive blow to the ego. But I kind of felt like something wasn't right and I wanted to address it in another way.

To the point is that, and no, I wasn't always confident. I'm more confident now. I'm still learning and I still make loads of mistakes. I do think when I run my own business, it really helps. And there's nothing like being out there, which really. gives you a kick up the bum. Not a lot scares me anymore. And the bit that I've learned over the years is that in one way, the bit that I'm grateful for is that I wonder where I would be if I was still that part two architectural assistant who didn't really want to do their part three and I stayed in the office.

Maybe we wouldn't be here now. Maybe the social wouldn't be there and there's going to be bits. In your guys lives where you get to that point, and that's why I'd encourage you sometimes to do the scarier thing, because the scarier thing isn't safer, but you learn something from it, and that's really where I learned a lot of [00:48:00] stuff.

So, so, I don't know how old you guys are now, but you know when you're saying like, ah, I think you were saying like, oh, you see some people are so inspirational. Well, I always wanted to do something different and bizarrely, now I'm happy with what I do. And I like the fact that the social is there and it really, I'm proud of it.

And it makes me, it's fulfilling, but you know, part of me would be like. I want to be the famous YouTuber or whatever. Do you know what I mean? So you always think like that before. And, um, it's quite easy to say, Oh, well, everything's been done. But I think when you get further in your career, these kind of things pop up.

Bizarrely, I feel like a slam dog millionaire. Certain bits of everything I've had the thought over the years of like, wouldn't that be good? Wouldn't that be good? Wouldn't that be good? And I've tried before and it failed and I built websites and they've been rubbish. And you know, all these little ideas.

And then suddenly it's like the, it's like the Slumdog Millionaire where all the questions come up. And then I'm like, [00:49:00] Oh, that experience that I've got is suddenly not a waste. And then that's how it can go. And so. To loop, maybe to loop back into everything again, everyone's understanding of architecture or what it is and what it means to everyone.

You kind of got to feel it out in your journey and I wouldn't be surprised in here. I imagine because you guys are a lot more, uh, you know, sensible than me, then you can, you can, you get careers in architecture. I imagine this room would be very different. It could be that one of you in the future is a healthcare specialist, could be working on schools.

You could be working on, you know, almost like. Landscape Design and Architecture. It really, really is so different and, uh, that's the beauty of it. So, the challenge I would have here now is you talk about, um, my, me, but let's say now I'm 10 years older than you guys and I think that's it. Can you imagine we still reunion in 10 years time when I'm ancient and, uh, and, and it would be interesting to see where everyone is here.

But I guarantee you, it would [00:50:00] be You will kind of go down these careers that you couldn't predict. You might work on one job, and then maybe someone asks you to join them, and you just, you just don't know how your career is going to go. Embrace it. And if you feel scared, sometimes that's, Not necessarily a bad thing.

Safety can be deceiving. And if you fail, it's a lesson, isn't it? As long as you're not repeating it all the time, but failures is important. Do

Intro: you know what it is? I think when a lot of people think of the idea of breaking away from architecture, it literally feels like a breakup, like a bad breakup.

1:100 Podcast Host: Yeah.

Intro: It is because it takes so long and because it takes up so much Energy and it literally just consumes so much of you when you step away from it. It is like, Oh no, like, what do I have now? Like you probably just feel this aspect of emptiness because it has consumed so much of you. So what word of advice would you give to someone that is, [00:51:00] Literally struggling with their bad breakup with architecture.

Stephen Drew: Okay, well, before you totally, totally break, give it a go before. That's the best thing I ever did, though, was working in an office for three years because all the stuff that I'm talking to you guys about now, I cannot, I've been there. I didn't go, I'm not going to do it totally. I've done it. I've seen it.

I've done the all nighters. I've had the good times, the bad times. I've like, I've been there. Cocked up the models. I've, you know, I've done all the stuff that, you know, I've done the, the print in the binding I've seen, and then soaked up that. But in terms of when I think if you've been in industry and you realize it's not for you, or you have this passion, then go for it.

I do think In terms of the bad breakups, you say, I did feel like a, definitely like a black sheep for a little while, but there is something exciting about it as well, and I think that you just got to, you got to, you just got to remember why you made the decision, and I think in your heart of hearts, in your gut, [00:52:00] you always know, because it's like, the, the rational bit is like, You can't give up your part for it.

You can't not do your part for it, because you've done your part one and part two. You've spent all this money, and You're going to let yourself down. You're going to let everyone down. You're a failure. You know, the brain, you know, it's just saying that thing. But in the heart of hearts, you've got to realize that all the skills that you've learned are applicable to other things as well.

I can tell you another really quick good example is I mean, Rockstar Gaming, you know, Rockstar, Grand Theft Auto, they hire a lot of architects to do their cities because obviously it's a big city, right? What a great idea and there's loads of other lateral jobs you can do, so do it, but do make sure it's well considered.

Don't go out on a whim. I mean, it's because in my heart of heart, it didn't feel right. And so you, so if you're dealing with a bad breakup, make sure you break up, broke up for a good reason. [00:53:00] Don't be, don't be like celebs go dating. Have you seen that show? Oh my God. You know, and they just, they going around dating everyone going, oh, oh, I don't know.

No, don't be, don't be like that, but do it, do it and have a good reason for it. And my reason was like, I've been in an architectural office for three years. And I love architecture, but I don't want to be the guy doing the drawings anymore because I'm not passionate about it. And that was why I did it. So, but I think if you, if you come to terms with your, your reason, whenever you feel a bit of insecure, then you can go back to your reasoning.

I was searching for something with purpose. And if you're chasing something with purpose, then great, but make sure it pays your bills too. Cause you can't be an artist and. When you with the London Rents, do you know what I mean?

Intro: The most important thing that I've picked up was definitely like just learning how to find your why, like find your reason for doing something.

There's a book called Find Your Why actually, by um, Simon Sinek basically talks about just finding purpose in everything that you do, so you can create [00:54:00] that sort of emotional attachment to it and it creates more purpose in your life as opposed to you know, General thing that you do. We're in so many different backgrounds in this, um, in this chat other than architecture and we're all on so many different paths in our careers and also personal lives.

I'm going to throw this question at Basma. You're one person who is just Honestly, one of the most motivated people I know in terms of finding a job. How do you stay motivated? I believe, like, my

Speaker 8: support system is what really got me through. Um, I have, I have a great support system around me, like, Amazing parents.

And I definitely feel like my faith also takes a big role in keeping me motivated, like making me, it just makes me realize that, I mean, not everyone believes in God, but I, I do feel that when you know that you're not fully in control of your, your path. It's, it's kind of freeing, knowing that you don't, when you, when you feel like everything is on your shoulders, it's really [00:55:00] overwhelming.

And knowing that there's, there's a higher purpose, there's someone, there's, there's a God up there that's going to help you and push you towards, you know, getting to your, to your goals. And that really helped me a lot. Still having that connection with what you enjoy doing. I love illustrating, I love creating, like that reignites my interest in architecture.

When you keep applying for jobs, you start to lose, you start to. have these doubts creeping in. Sometimes your own thoughts are your enemy's progress. They're like little minions that are trying to like, stop you from getting to where you want to go. And sometimes it's just important to know how to battle that and speak to yourself out loud.

Try and dispel all those thoughts away. Also connect with your friends, speak to them, speak to people who are in positions where you want to be. When I speak to like some of you guys, it makes me excited to be in that position because obviously like I would want to do my architectural apprenticeship and everything and getting there is difficult but hearing like Bethany's experiences and Naomi, it makes me excited to be in that position one day and like, be, [00:56:00] be hopeful and also I feel like, well, at least I have some time to, like, actually think of, like, how to prepare to get to that position.

So maybe that's, that's the reason why I'm not there yet. I feel like it's just important to just trust your process and trust the journey. Never be afraid to ask for help or just have a little moan with whoever's around that's happy to listen. You know, you guys see, like, the Positive motivational side, me, but I do have my moments on my own where I feel like I'm really struggling or doubting myself and that's your human being at the end of the day.

Like that's normal. Job searching is, is, is it feels like a job in itself.

1:100 Podcast Host: Trust me.

Speaker 8: Is that like just because you're not employed does not mean that you are, you're not busy, you're not, Like, you're not constantly trying to find a way of, um, getting out of the space that you're in. You have to just own that moment too because there's a lot of self discovery in this moment where you realize You develop skills of becoming resilient, be your own [00:57:00] motivator.

We live in a world where we kind of work hard with someone pushing us behind us and trying to like tell us what to do, but when you're at a space where you're either like self employed, because obviously I'm a freelance graphic designer, you develop skills of having like being your own beacon. There's a lot that you learn in this process, so don't feel like just because you're not working for someone doesn't mean that you're stagnant, like you're not perfect.

You're not developing, you're not growing, you're not improving.

Intro: There's always room to grow no matter where you are. Cindy, you've also struggled to get into the whole world of architecture through so many different situations, and you have actually gone into your own freelance in illustration. So, What kept you motivated and how did you manage to kind of overcome that sort of barrier?

1:100 Podcast Host: Struggled is a nice word. The architecture world is a big, big, big ocean and I felt like when I graduated I was a little fish. I could barely swim. So, um, I felt like, um, instead of being [00:58:00] at home doing absolutely nothing, I just thought, oh, let me just try to get creative. And, um, something I did before I came to uni was to draw for a little time that felt like an escape to problems that I had.

The problem I had was finding a job. And I was like, How about finding, making a job out of something that I like? So that's when I asked my friends, I was like, oh, should I make an art page? Then I made an art page and last March, and now I've got lots of clients doing the past year. And I'm trying to branch out and making a bigger platform where I can sell prints, I can do more.

And ultimately, you would think I spent four years doing architecture, which I enjoyed and hated at the same time, but I still want to, I still want to do design, but I feel like as it is now, um, I felt like Basma said, applying for a job is like a job in itself. It's so draining and it's so, [00:59:00] it's so difficult, especially in a pandemic.

So I've allowed myself to understand that I'm not by myself. I'm not alone. I know a lot of people are struggling and I, that's how I feel like, and having people like Basma, having people like you guys always encourage me and make me feel like I'm not totally useless. The reason why I keep myself positive is because I've got so many nice reviews over the art because especially when you come from my background, which is African background, you're told that art, something like art is not worthy, like art is not, it's not.

It's not going to make you, it's not going to pay your bills. So when I started doing art, I did not really do it in front of my parents because my parents would be like, instead of you applying for jobs, you're doing drawings. What they don't understand is like, when you're a creator, when you're a designer, creating something makes you feel good.

That was the whole purpose of Vivian Uni, creating something that makes you feel good and make somebody else feel good. I am a creator. [01:00:00] I like to create and no matter what I do in life, I want to do that.

Intro: Thanks everyone so much for listening to today's episode. Make sure you check out Stephen Drew and follow our page on Architecture Social at architectursocial.

com. Also make sure to follow us on social media, DM us at 1to100podcast or you can send us an email, which is 1to100podcast at gmail. com. We'd love to get your ideas on board. every single episode. And it's a wrap!