From Architecture to Real Estate ft. Richard Carr, Design Director at Landsec

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Stephen Drew: Hello everyone. It's February, halfway through already. I need to get my bell ready. Here we go. Architects, developers, real estate. Wherever you are, whoever you are, whatever sandwich you're having, you're welcome here. If you're having a cheeky beer, it's probably too early for that, but I won't judge you.

We've all been there. It's Tuesday, not Friday. Anyway. The show goes on 15 seconds, all will be revealed

five seconds. Hello everyone. Welcome to a livestream special. I'm joining you today. It's a Tuesday the sun's starting to come out, [00:01:00] but I appreciate you joining us here for this awesome special, and I am blessed. Blessed in a few ways, but someone who's gonna shine a light on moving from Architecture into real estate development.

And on that note, welcome to my fantastic guest year, Richard Carr. How are you doing, Richard?

Richard Carr: Yeah. Very good. Thank you. Thanks, Steve.

Stephen Drew: Thank you for being here. I know it's starting to get the sun, but you are in, we're gonna talk about this awesome subject and I really appreciate that. But Richard, so you were design director at Lances sec. So for anyone that's not familiar with Lances sec, can you just tell us a little bit about Lances sec.

Richard Carr: Yeah, absolutely. So we are one of the leading real estate companies in the uk. We're a fussy 100 business. We own, develop, manage retail assets. We've got offices, we've got loads of mixed use schemes, really cool schemes that are coming through as well. Yeah, very widened, varied portfolio, but I work primarily just on the [00:02:00] retail stuff.

Stephen Drew: Nice. Nice. I tell you what, we can see a bit of this trailer here, Lance. They know what they do and look at this polished video and we've. Some of your projects in you, I'm sure to talk about as well, but before you did this role as well, rich, I think it's really important to mention for the audience that you come from an Architecture background, right?

Richard Carr: Yeah, absolutely. So I've studied up in Le. Quite a few years ago now, but we're still connected with leads. Met actually or leads Becketts as it is now. And actually we're doing a really interesting collaboration with them at the moment. So I was up in their studios last week having a look around and remembering what it was like to be a student, which was great.

So I worked in practice probably about seven or eight years and really enjoyed it, really loved it, working on some amazing stuff, but the opportunity came up to. As a, from a real, with a real estate company. And I've seen all my clients driving around in fast cars and I thought actually that sounds like a good way of getting a better car.

Which it didn't, but it's yeah, it's been a good journey ever [00:03:00] since.

Stephen Drew: Fair dues to you. And hats off. So retails also are changed in the landscape as well, so I'd love to get your thoughts on that. But I gotta be honest I've quite enjoying it lately. I'm going back in the shops myself. I'm going back in the offices and I think like past pre, we've been in the pandemic and now we're coming out.

So I'm guessing you're getting pretty busy Atlan sec at the moment.

Richard Carr: Yeah. Yeah it's a really good point. We are super busy. We are looking at loads of really exciting things, and I think, in fact, I was talking to one of our consultants this morning about what was your first reaction post? Pandemic lockdown finishes, what do you want to do? And not many people were saying, I want to go and buy something online.

What they wanted to do was spend time with family, friends, get back together again go for a few drinks, go for a meal, or go out and do a physical activity like shopping, like recreational use, and so on. So yeah, we're, we are really excited about the opportunities that brings and it's been a really cool last couple of years actually, challenging ourselves to think a little bit differently.

Stephen Drew: Nice. Fair play. I'm really interested [00:04:00] in it, but what I'm gonna do quickly is I'm just gonna put the link up for anyone here in the audience. They can have a quick look at Lance in the background, but while we've got Richard here, as long as it's appropriate, you can ask him pretty much anything.

About what he's doing now in terms of real estate and development, but also what I wouldn't mind diving deep into here a little bit, Richard, is alternative careers and you've done it, you've made that transition. And I get asked a lot by architects, What's it like? Is it hard? All that stuff. So maybe if we can zoom slightly back to when you were, as an Architect.

So you were saying that you were looking at the other side and you teased a little bit about the flash cars and stuff, but in a bigger picture than that as well. What's it like moving to a developer in real estate?

Richard Carr: Yeah, it's really interesting, it would be slightly different now, I think. But at the time it was quite a big step, and I hadn't really, when I was [00:05:00] studying, I hadn't really had any exposure to what a real estate business or career might look like. It always felt like it was for other people.

It felt like it was for people who we're a bit more studious or a bit more sort of spreadsheet based and all of those sort of things. Whereas, reality couldn't be anything further from retreatment. It's very much about creating amazing spaces. It's about bringing communities together and it's about trying to work out what very complex answers to difficult questions are in terms of how we create spaces that have got longevity.

And that's really what a lot of architects go into the profession to, to do. It's about problem solving. Really, and I suppose listening to your podcast and seeing what you were doing through lockdown with the students coming through and you haven't paid me to say this, but it was really important and really interesting actually, to see the support that you could give and that the industry could give to people coming through who were, it wasn't a buoyant time.

It wasn't a time where year out jobs were particularly prevalent. So I think it's really important for architects and student architects and new graduate, [00:06:00] new qualified graduate. To understand that Architecture is one route, but it actually opens doors to loads and loads of other really interesting careers as well.

And that problem solving approach is super applicable to the sort of challenges that we face as real estate developers, owners, occupiers, and so on.

Stephen Drew: Very cool. And listen, I'm flattered. All right. Damn flattered. That was you. I tell you what, it was the best use of furlough. I'm glad they didn't go on Netflix so much. And we just to start. It was worth it in the end. And here we are, but you are bang on with, and I always find it amazing, when you study Architecture.

I've still got that part one and part two with me, Richard. My REIT's Rusty, but may, maybe there's some rule for me in the development team somewhere. Maybe you could get me going. I don't, I

Richard Carr: I can open a few doors for you. Yeah. a go.

Stephen Drew: I think you regret that, but it's live guys. Rich has agreed to it, but jokes aside, you That's so true.

I find that basically all the skills. That architects learn. Architectural, Assistant learn during their [00:07:00] part one, part two on their part three are kickass skills that can be really transferable. Do you, from your experience now at a real estate and developer, can you give one or two examples where an Architect skills really translates quite well

Richard Carr: Yeah, I think it's really interesting because cuz actually it probably steps before I even went to uni, I did I worked in a practice in my hometown where really good progressive. Team there. Really interesting, and I'm a lot older than you, Steven, so I'm used to drawing boards and that was part of the reason I got into Architecture.

I love drawing and then CAD came along and spoiled it all for me. So I had to

Stephen Drew: Oh, really?

00;00;00_Richard Carr: Yeah, exactly. I was a complete Luddite, I embraced it. Fairly quickly, but I just love drawing. So everyone sat around the drawing boards and my boss at the time said, nine to five, we do what the clients asked us to do, five to seven.

That's when the Architecture happens. And that's where I tell them, or give them the thing that they didn't even realize they wanted or needed. And I'm not necessarily advocating everyone stays late working every night, and the Architecture profession's gotta get better at that. [00:08:00] Definitely. But the idea that.

That clients have got all the answers that just doesn't exist. We've got some of the answers, but more importantly, we've got some really good questions. What we need architects to do is really step up and give us some incredible answers that we haven't even thought about, or solutions that we haven't really dreamt about, and that's where the true design and Architecture really comes through.

From my role, see myself being a bridge between the two. It's a bit hunter term, gamekeeper or the other way around. It's trying to fight the cause of the Architect and our consultants and try and bring their design vision to the fore, but also make it commercially sensitive and, stack up from that perspective.

And so we have some really cool consultants working with us and we have some really great debates about how we can do stuff. But I would say the best opportunity. For architects making that transition is really understanding how people work and trying to get to understand what the solutions are.

The design output is just a sort of finished result. The process that you go through to get to that is incredible and that's r really where it's exciting, I think.

Stephen Drew: Oh, well done. Hat's up to you, but it is, [00:09:00] it does sound really interest. And listen, we joked about me joining your team. I probably wouldn't be the best fit. However, if we've got a kick ass Architect out there right now is who's been thinking about making this move and stuff.

Richard, in your experience, what's like a typical day for you in your role as a design director at a company like Lance?

Richard Carr: Yeah, it's the first thing is there is no typical day. We're out on site, we're having various meetings, and we've got a really broad church at Lan sec in terms of. Teams. We have asset teams, brand teams who deal with the retailers direct. We've got investment guys and development teams who are working on really complicated appraisals.

But all of us come together to try and create something amazing and the output that you see on their website is some just phenomenal projects that literally come out of the ground that. In really complicated spaces as well. So we would typically be having site meetings. We'd be talking to local authorities.

We've met with the chief exec of one of our local authorities yesterday to share [00:10:00] our vision and how that comes together. And so a lot of our role is really inspiring architects and consultants to come up with fresh ideas, giving them a platform to do it as well. And then interpreting those and bringing them to life from a commercial perspective.

And commercial's got a dirty association with it. It's not to be tainted by that. It's, it's the realis realistic side of life that we need to embrace and make to make our cities and spaces viable. But when we do that, we've gotta think about how we can. Repurpose space is how we can reinvigorate our local communities to really create interesting places that people want to be.

So when we talk about a typical day for me, talking to those communities. I'm talking to consultants, I'm talking to looking at new trends that are coming through, trying to inspire and push our teams internally to think differently while translating what their needs are to, to an Architect.

Yeah, it's very much a bridging role between the two. I can honestly say I do more design work in private practice for a real estate company than I ever did in in an Architecture firm, because I [00:11:00] suppose I was, yeah, it's really interesting dynamic, really, because the stuff I like doing when I was at, when I studied and I was to say, the reason I got into Architecture was I just like drawing.

I like creating, I like thinking about all these these different things. The reality for a lot of people when they do their part one the finished part one, and they're going into their first year's work experience, it's quite daunting actually. You go from this really creative hub where you're encouraged to think differently.

You're encouraged to collaborate with your with your co-students. And actually a lot of the tuition happens through, through what you learn from peers and so on. And you go into private practice and then suddenly you've got a client, you've got a budget, you've got a program, you've got building regs, you've got all of these different stakeholders and things to, to, and it's quite an adjustment actually for a lot of people I think doing that.

So the things that I really love doing was the creative, the first part of it the first part of a scheme, understanding what the problem was, thinking about how to solve it, and then [00:12:00] coming up with some ideas to inspire. And then so yeah, I'm doing loads of that and then setting the briefs and talking to different consultants about how they can help us out with those, with that problem solving.

So yeah, it's, I would definitely recommend it. Certainly. Foot point number one it's not for everybody. It's, it can be quite daunting. Daunting, I think walk walking into a big corporate environment. But actually places like Lande are becoming less and less corporate anyway. We're very much in tune.

What our guest needs are, and we're trying to respond to that. And of course, to do that, you've gotta have a very diverse range of people asking those questions.

Stephen Drew: Fair. Fair enough. And wow. I have to be honest, I don't know where I got it from because I maybe as well, the impression I get. Different companies in real estate, different roles, perhaps. There's different job requirements. There's different tasks. As I've had a design coordinators, technical coordinators.

You're a design director, but what a nice insight that actually you do a lot of [00:13:00] design. In development because I think sometimes people feel that it, maybe it's a trader for, oh, I'm going away from mainstream Architecture and I'm going to work for a developer. So here comes the Excel sheets. But actually you are saying that you're doing all these designs just really cool.

Richard Carr: No, absolutely. And all joking aside about the CAD stuff, how you communicate with people and how you sell ideas or sell a vision, I think is really important. And CAD's a great tool for doing that. But Photoshop coming up with images and descriptors about what your vision is for spaces.

It's really interesting. It's creative, it's diverse and it's. It keeps me, put it this way, I don't get a Sunday night Blues feeling. I'm always looking forward to what we're up to that week and so on. So yeah, I would hardly recommend it. I think also there is a bit of a bridge between real estate developers and Architecture students.

And so some of the work we're trying to do in leads and potentially with other universities is to see how we can help. Young architects [00:14:00] coming through both from a time point of view, so giving mentorship and so on, but also going in just to understand, just to give an overview of what a developer actually does and what the commercial pressures are for us, because I think the more that we can help.

Educate young designers coming through, the better it's gonna be for the industry because you're gonna get really good, qualified architects who have got a entrepreneurial edge to them as well. So hopefully that's something we can progress. I'm definitely open to any sort of conversations with Architectural institutions about how we can possibly help out with that because it's really important to, to bridge that gap and make it less about.

Client consultant. It should be a collaboration between the two, so if everyone can understand each other's roles, that's really useful.

Stephen Drew: Good for you. That's really commendable and I think it's an ongoing effort, isn't it? And I think the key bit that you touched on. Especially when you're doing nice stuff like, involving the younger generations of the next wave of architects and developers in real estate, it is a collaborative effort, isn't it?

And it should. And I'm glad that land SEC's getting involved, but [00:15:00] also, it's a team effort, isn't it? Because it's quite a big task and I tend, I think at the moment it's quite interesting because a, ar B is talking about a reshuffling education and who knows which where that goes and stuff.

But we touched upon earlier, during the pandemic me on furlough, drinking my wine and Netflix stopping it to, to think, okay, I need to train stuff up. But I'd love to know your thoughts on how things are feeling post pandemic, because I get the feeling. I mean me in terms of the Architecture Social in terms of recruitment, it's really busy in terms of job posting.

This's really busy in terms of news articles. It's really busy at Lance. It sounds like you're not watching the clock, the day's gone. Is it really busy for you?

Richard Carr: Oh, it's absolutely frantic. Yeah. In a very good and positive way. I think we've got we've got a huge and diverse range of projects and p a massive portfolio of really cool schemes and the challenges that we face or the opportunities that we face in all of those they're slightly different.

There's [00:16:00] nuances between them, but there's a lot of commonality as well. It's about, and it's not just about retail as a transactional thing, it's about retail as a. If you use it as a tool to bring people together. And we talk a lot on our website about how we connect communities and it's not just words.

It's really what we care about. It's how we stitch the fabric of the different societies and the different communities that we're serving together. Then you create some really interesting. Interesting dynamics. So we've got loads of opportunities where we are looking at different challenges in terms of how we repurpose or how we make things look better or how we really communicate to people in a different way and make them feel like our retail centers or our destinations are part of their fabric and really somewhere that they belong effectively.

And that's a very different way, of looking at shopping, cuz retail used to be very transactional. It used to be about we'll build a big shiny box and someone will go there and buy stuff. Now we're more about the hospitality business. We're about hosting people [00:17:00] and of course we want people to have a good time and spend money with us.

But that's just an outcome really. The real magic is creating somewhere that people want to go in the first place. And that's the sort of, Thing that where we, I think you've gotta embrace technology. You've gotta really embrace the internet and all of the different opportunities that offers.

Because if you wanna just buy a pair of trainers, you can pretty much go online and buy a pair of trainers. But if you want to go and really understand The storytelling behind them or engage with someone who's gonna host you and sell you them in an elegant way, or give you that choice and that opportunity to discover new brands in a way that you can't really do online in this sort of traditional sense.

Then we've got a really good role to play in doing that. Yeah, it's really cool. We are super busy doing stuff. We are talking to really clever people about about the spaces that we're creating. And we're really challenging them and they're challenging us to think differently as well. So yeah

No two days the same.

Stephen Drew: I love it. It sounds exciting and you're right. I find it interesting that retailers involved in that way. And you're right, because if you [00:18:00] just want, a car box to pop up, You can use Amazon, but I do want a day out. I do enjoy that. As you say, this blurring into hospitality and all this stuff and it's experiential, isn't it?

And you go out for the day and you pick up a few things along the way. And that has changed from, I, like you said, cause I grew up in South Wales and you'd have a bunch of shops where you'd drive 10, 20 minutes to it. There'd be nothing around Richard. And that is to, it's it's totally changed. So I'm quite excited to see you working there.

Why? I'd say though, just before maybe we open up the conversation a bit, we've actually had one or two things coming in. So we definitely live Richard, which is a good slide. Isn. So Sarah says, definitely a valuable, insightful topic. Answer. I'm just moving my screen here. And I developed an interest in from myself.

Very valuable in the current climate. Thanks Sarah for the nice words there. It's easy when you've got a guest who knows the subject. So that's that's the really useful thing, but [00:19:00] now I've gotta put my thinking cap back on.

Richard Carr: Yeah.

Stephen Drew: I checked out as an Architectural Assistant and has got a question, maybe you can help shine a line on Richard.

So basically she's saying that she's trying to get into real estate and had a few interviews, but perhaps in these current roles, they weren't necessarily looking for someone from an Architecture background. Or it was open-ended, like maybe the candidate could be from an Architecture background or could be from another.

So do, is there any, so it sounds like this person's at the start of their journey. Richard, where would you advise that they go on that search? It sounds, I don't think that anyone should give up and it's natural to get a few rejections, especially if you're transitioning careers. But what would you be your initial advice, Richard, for someone on this?

Richard Carr: No, exactly. It's it's a really good question, I think and actually Steve, Steven, we were talking before about my background and actually my background's a lot about setbacks or failures, really. My initial career route, I wanted to be a footballer along with [00:20:00] 95% of the other kids in my school.

It got fairly close, but then it didn't, so that fell away a little bit. But I'm still holding out hope. I might get pulled up for for Chelsea, but we never know. But I think having a flexible approach to your career and what opportunities might come up is really important.

And the more exposure you can have to different companies I think is great. I would always say LinkedIn is an amazing tool for actually broadening. Your network and I'd be very happy to take this conversation offline with with Abisko as well. And, firstly connect.

And secondly, give a bit of advice direct from that point of view. I think the more connections you can have, the more opportunities you can have to ex an exposure to different roles that you don't even know exist necessarily. I think recruitment guys, Have the responsibility within this themselves as well, because it's very easy to say there's a role here.

got this job title, this job description, and this is, these are the qualifications you've got to have. And it's a very binary tool to apply. Whereas I think if you look at. The career route [00:21:00] I've taken. It's a fairly unconventional one in many ways. And I've worked on some really big scale projects and some really small scale stuff.

If you look at my CV, you wouldn't necessarily say that guy's perfect for that. And so a lot of it is how you communicate and how you try and build those relationships within that. And of course, It's understanding. And the reason I bring up the failure thing is everyone has setbacks and everyone goes for things and don't necessarily get the job or whatever, but you've just gotta have a positive mindset about that and go can I learn from this?

Ask for feedback, ask for where the gaps are, and then try and fill them as best as possible. But certainly, I think the mentoring part is really important. Lantech as a business really invest in this. We. We could do things in a very different way, but we don't, we invest people's time, which is really important, I think.

And certainly from my side of things, I'd be very happy to chat to anyone who's got any specific queries about that, just say here's my advice, or here's a few pointers. But, use people's connections. Use people's wider network to be able to leverage yourself up.

I.

Stephen Drew: Lovely. [00:22:00] Wow. Full of that was a juicy gold nugget of, that would be the sound bite from this. That was like the one-on-one, how to do it. You can't give up, can you? Especially when you're doing something a bit unconventional, you're gonna get knocked back a little bit typically, isn't it?

It's, it takes a bit of work. Oh, there we

Richard Carr: does. Absolutely.

Stephen Drew: There you go. So AKA said thank you and you, I think that was number one. It's I think getting out there is half of it. So the fact that you are here watching this, which is, that's half of the industry and being present. And networking.

Networking. Like you said, you talked about commercial air networking as like a little letter of a ooh awkward word. Like whether you, are you all in the room handing out business cards is a bit awkward, but actually, Networking is everything, isn't it? It's all about who you meet. You go out, you go to an event, you meet people at work, you move companies.

It's all about networking. Do you have any ever thoughts on that, Richard, before

Richard Carr: Yeah, I would say, and don't necessarily feel like you have to be the life and soul of a party. If you go to a [00:23:00] networking event, you'll find me right at the back, staring at my phone a little bit nervously. Not everyone's an extrovert and thinking they have to be jazz hands, and So that's point number one.

Have confidence in yourself. Everyone's got a story to tell. And the key thing I think is that actually asking for help or asking people to for advice, it's a really amazing compliment that you can pay and the vast majority of people will help and will gladly. Either give someone a leg up or just give a bit of advice or a bit of a hint or a bit of something because everyone's been through a similar process and dif people's pathways are different, but everyone's had their struggles and so on.

So generally speaking, it might sound a bit evangelist here, but I do think people generally want to help. I do think people want to do something that's got got, can lead somewhere really. So don't be afraid to ask. I would.

Stephen Drew: Said. The other tip, which is not as conventional as yours, as someone 10 me years ago in a networking event, if in doubt, stay at the bar.

Richard Carr: Yeah, exactly.

Stephen Drew: That's one you'll always meet someone at the bar. You don't have to [00:24:00] drink alcohol being at the bar. That's where people will go

to,

Richard Carr: exactly. It's like the kitchen at a house party, isn't it? That's where you hang so,

Stephen Drew: Correct. I it is true. So we've got a bun, we've covered a lot of ground really fast. And so what I was gonna say, if you've got a few more minutes, Richard, just before you, building up these awesome buildings and all that stuff, I'm quite excited to know cuz it's a, it is an interesting time at the moment. AI is a bit of a talk. Before, I used to do a lot of stuff on the Metaverse and people were going, Steve, stop talking about the Metaverse. And everywhere I look online, you were talking about AI and as a design director of, real estate company. What's your initial thought on AI within Architecture?

Would you be looking at involving that or have you not thought about it yet or are you kind watching the space so far?

Richard Carr: Yeah, a bit of all of those really. I think actually just going back to lockdown, we had to learn to work in a different way. And actually the ability [00:25:00] to communicate with architects and to steer design became very different overnight really. And I think probably for a few of my consultants, they were quite pleased of it.

Cause I, I couldn't get my red pen out quite so much. But you quickly find a way of doing it. And I think using it as a tool to design with, I'm not convinced necessarily at this stage. I think using it as a tool to sell a vision and to to communicate with, I think is really cool. And I think there's loads of different opportunities with how we develop that and use it in a different way.

Cuz not everyone's. Not everyone can read a plan in the same way. Not everyone can understand even CGIs, no matter how good they they're just a static moment in time. So I think there's lots within AI and how we build up these different. Different realities that can really help to sell a vision.

And the critical thing is how we talk to people and get their feedback and understand what their needs are. So as part of my role, I've done quite a lot of public consultations, whether I was in previous places or here where you're talking to local authorities, but you are also really getting to grips with what [00:26:00] the community want.

And it's really interesting. Firstly, a lot of developers do that because they have to, and at Lantech we don't, we really care about trying to get that right level of messaging through because you learn so much and no matter what we do or what we think is right, once you test it, and once you start really challenging.

Or challenging those hypothesis out with people, then you get some really surprising results. But you've gotta be open to what those results might bring. And you've also gotta be able to communicate to various different people in different ways. So I think AI has got a huge role to play in that, and how we can firstly, encourage people and inspire people, but also gain the right level of feedback about what we're doing right and what we're doing wrong.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, said. I I saw today, on LinkedIn it pops up. AI bot says that architects are gonna be replaced. And I'm like, I'm thinking, nah. It's a long way off. And the best analogy I can use is I don't know about you, but I've got a few saintsbury locals [00:27:00] here. And like when you go in the machines came and they're like, oh, they're gonna replace everyone's jobs.

And those machines, they don't work after time. Someone's gotta come over and

Richard Carr: no, exactly.

Stephen Drew: your food for the machine. And I think It's amazing, but it's a long way to go. There was actually a really good exhibition last week. Hamer's Shake was a bit of an Instagram uh, social media works against as an Architect, and he did the combination of AI with, and this is what you would like Richard with hand drawing with old schools.

So that mashup was actually quite interesting, using it as a tool.

Richard Carr: yeah, definitely.

Stephen Drew: Not just whacking up AI for the sake of ai, if that makes sense.

Richard Carr: No, definitely. And I was always trained that if you can't draw it, you can't build it. And I think computers have helped overcome some of those sorts of challenges historically, but actually there's nothing you can't beat just getting a pen out and sketching something. And if you've got the ability to be able to convince someone or show someone what you mean.

With a quick hand drawn sketch, then [00:28:00] the ability to do that with ai, you still need to be able to program it. You still need to be able to input where or give it that sort of. Emotional connection, in terms of bringing it to life really. No, I'm big fan of progress with this and despite my Luddite comments about AutoCAD and so on coming in when I wanted to draw, I think, obviously the benefits are there to be seen, and it actually enables you to create some amazing structures that wouldn't necessarily be possible without that.

Stephen Drew: Yeah. Very well said. Cool. We covered a lot there. So what I'd like to do now, because it shouldn't be just like all the, you've answered a lot of questions is what I'm getting to, but maybe it's fun if you wanted to. You can chuck a few back and you can say wherever you want, Richard and I'm live and I will take the punishment If you want to.

If you want to do, ask me anything.

Richard Carr: Yeah, definitely. That's a very interesting one if I'd known a bit more about that. I could have really set up a couple of good ones for you, Stephen. But I suppose from a recruitment perspective we've touched on the impact recruiters can have in terms of [00:29:00] helping steer people's careers, but how much of a responsibility and do you see the recruitment of architects coming changing over the last few years?

Stephen Drew: Yeah it's a weird one because recruiters get involved with you doing kind of precious moments of your careers, which is normally in between zones. The down, the problem is with recruitment is that it's, It. There is very little regulation and people can come into the industry from any background.

So devil's advocate is someone who's really competitive. So some may, maybe you bef, I know you went into Architecture, but you were thinking of going for Chelsea football club or whatever. That kind of characteristic really bodes well in recruitment because ultimately, It's about a return on investment.

Having said that, though, it's handy to have people from the industry along the way, cuz as we know, there's lots of nuances within Architecture and there is a responsibility. The kind of the, I think why recruitment get, can get a bad name like a estate agent is cuz if it's [00:30:00] handled badly. You'll have that story at a dinner table to be like, I had this recruiter and he was a nightmare.

Like a bad estate agent, the same thing. He said this and that, and I got there and the structure wasn't working. And I think that, but when he is done really well, then you tend to people come back to you. And I think that the opportunity which you are doing with Lance is there's a coaching, there's a teaching piece with it and I think.

I identify with recruitment is when a recruiter's looking for a bid manager, for example, and then a part one Architectural. Assistant calls up. It's very hard for that recruiter to give them all the information they need really to go on. They search and really they need to go on themselves, but that's where the education piece, hopefully, of the Architecture Social comes in and that's why it's so awesome you shining the light even on moving from Architecture to development because as we know, we all know each other through McDonald and Company. I worked there before. Really great recruitment agency, probably more [00:31:00] development than Architecture, and I used to be involved in the Architecture team, but there's an education piece even there, which you've shined a light on than how to move over because if you don't know, it can be frustrating.

So to answer your question, yes, there is a massive recruitment piece there. The trouble is though, It's this unregulate unregulated space. But there's an opportunity there, I think,

Richard Carr: no, definitely. And I think that's where a lot. Students or young architects or even fairly well established architects if they're getting frustrated in those roles, they should really feel encouraged that there is a wider range of stuff to do. I think also even going beyond that we are trying to look at how.

How you can encourage a really diverse range of people to even get through the first door to study Architecture in the first place. Still very expensive course to do. It's very, it's a long course to do, to become fully qualified, so people should know that. That opportunity is open to everybody [00:32:00] because we're gonna create better spaces with the more diverse range of architects we have coming through.

And, real estate companies such as Lansette have a real responsibility to help support those practices coming through, or those young emerging architects coming through to give them a platform to do. Really good project. So again, that's something we are working on about how we recruit consultants in what do we go to the normal, traditional, large scale Architectural practice.

Of course, we need to use those, but also for some other projects, we've got some really great opportunities for smaller emerging practices coming through to be able to really showcase their talents, whether it's in collaboration with bigger ones or or smaller scale. There's an opportunity there for us to be custodians or to be real champions for good quality design coming through.

So the more we know about that, the better.

Stephen Drew: I think that you and LANs are doing an amazing job of him, and I think that you're in that nice position where you can make that difference. And I, it is nice that you see that social responsibility and they're actually doing something about it. [00:33:00] And I think you're right that.

There's a few schools at the moment, which like the London School of Architecture, where a lot of the course is built based on involving Architectural practices, real estate, multidisciplinary companies, to get students into the industry to get a real feeling of it, because there's a place for everyone isn't.

You don't need to be the design Architect. There's a place for the technical Architect. There's a pray for someone that's more interested in project coordination. There's something for everyone. And that, that's my feeling. But on this, no I've got Lances up here. Now, where can people find you if they've got more things they want to have a conversation or they want to unpack after this podcast?

Richard.

Richard Carr: Yeah, absolutely. I think as I say, LinkedIn's probably the best tool to go through I'm very happy to connect to anybody who wishes to no questions off, off limits, I would say. So very happy to do that. And I think, as I say, network is about being able to use other people's network to grow your own career as well.

So very happy for people to [00:34:00] use what my connections are to open up different doors. Really, I think that's one part of it, I think. The other thing I would, I was thinking about in terms of the transition probably from being an Architect to being a client side, is that client side organizations tend to be a lot more collaborative in terms of a wider network of people that you have to satisfy.

So I listed off various different departments I would coexist with. So we have investment guides, brand guys, asset management teams, and so on. Architects are very good at working with architects and designers, but understanding, and the, probably the biggest challenge I had when I went client side was that I thought I had all the ideas and the right answers but actually, Working collaboratively with loads of different disciplines is really cool.

It's really interesting. When I worked with Value Retail I was suddenly working with loads of different, really incredibly interesting people who have got loads of different perspectives on life. Not necessarily from a design point of [00:35:00] view, but how they end up using those spaces or what their needs are.

And when you bring all of those ideas and. Minds together, you get some incredible results. So I would always say you certainly wouldn't go into a real estate business thinking that you're going to be judge and jury by yourself. You really gotta embrace the fact you're gonna be working across these many sectors.

But within all of those, everyone's got their own specialty. And having good ideas and strong. It's really welcomed. It's just about how you communicate those and how you embrace different bits of feedback along the way, really. So yeah, it's a really cool step to take.

I've definitely recommended it to anybody and I have recommended it quite to quite a few of my friends who've now done it as well. So I'm either responsible for a lot of mess or have helped out with a few different careers, I'd say.

Stephen Drew: Brilliant. I think if anyone's watching this and they get inspired and they do go kind inside, do drop. Bear Richard A. Little note. At the same time, if it's not for you, don't kill outside his house and pester him. You know what I

Richard Carr: No. Exactly.

Stephen Drew: I'm sure [00:36:00] that won't ha, I'm sure that won't happen,

Richard Carr: no

Stephen Drew: Brilliant. On that, no, Richard so people can find you on LinkedIn. They can check up Lance Sec. You've been an absolute amazing guest. Now you get to enjoy Valentine's Day. Hope you got your presence and stuff before you go. Otherwise, you're gonna get into trouble,

Richard Carr: yeah. Good reminder. Thank you.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I'm reminding myself actually live.

I hope my partner's what, not watching this, otherwise I've got two hours to get something before I go home. But on that note sorry, Faye in advance for the rubbish flowers that you'll be getting in the bit, but the audience that's been tuned in, thank you so much for tuning on. I really appreci.

Richard, awesome guest. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you being here. Get in touch with Richard. But on that note, I'm gonna shut down this live stream. I've got another one coming up in two days where we will be discussing AI with an Architect that currently uses AI as part of their own [00:37:00] Architecture practice.

Oh, rich, you might enjoy that one

Richard Carr: Yeah. Sounds good.

Stephen Drew: Tune in two days. Thank you so much. I'm gonna win the live stream, Richard, stay on the stage. Sit tight for one second, but bye-bye everyone. See you soon. Take care.

Thanks.