How BIM is Changing Landscape Architecture: A Conversation with Alejandro Gatica at Gillespies
How BIM is Changing Landscape Architecture: A Conversation with Alejandro Gatica at Gillespies
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Stephen Drew: Hello, hello, hello. That's right, you urban designers, master planners, landscape architects. This one's for you in 25 seconds. Hello everyone. And welcome to this special. If you're an architect, you're probably thinking a lot of [00:01:00] time about the actual building that you're designing, how it works, and probably, especially if you're in a medium or large architecture practice, you're going to be using Revit. However, how does BIM work for not just the building, but the actual landscape outside?
Whether it's a master plan, whether it's some massive model, we're going to talk about that because I don't want to know today about the, the risers and the stairwells and all that stuff. We're going to be talking about the actual landscape and how that works with BIM. And on that note, It helps if we've got someone who's done this to let us know how you would even begin.
And on that note, I have the fantastic Alejandro Gutica from Gillespie's. Alejandro, how are you? Are you okay?
Alejandro Gatica: Hi, Stephen. Yeah, I'm good. I'm good. How are you?
Stephen Drew: I'm really good. Now, while we've spoken before with this, we've had a bit of a giggle and all that stuff, some people might not [00:02:00] know you from the industry. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself, first of all?
Alejandro Gatica: Yeah I'm Alejandro Gatica. I'm an architect from Chile and have been working with landscape architects and in Revit, using Revit for eight years now. So yeah, I have a lot of challenges with it but we have successfully delivered. So yeah that's something.
Stephen Drew: Brilliant. And we're going to go through it in a little while, because I know you've got a really cool presentation and all that stuff. But before that, because I'm sure when you studied architecture, did you think you'd ever end up in this position where you're like the Your principal BIM manager of all these cool, large landscape projects and urban design projects.
Alejandro Gatica: was finishing uni, I realized that Revit was the thing in order to get a job actually, because I was seeing that it was rough if you didn't have the software skills. So I studied a master's in Spain just for that. I worked [00:03:00] a year in Chile and using Revit and that thing, but then it was like, okay, I need to specialize.
And in that path, I end up doing landscape because it was required. There was, there is no many landscape architects that know Revit but then they have to use it. And then there was a problem. They have to employ another one another company or a freelancer to do the job. So that's how I end up doing landscape.
Stephen Drew: Wow. Yeah. And so it's a totally different scale. Okay. It's been a long time, right? Since I've done Revit. I had a training course in 2014. So it's a long time ago, but one quick, silly question, because I'm sure there's a lot of students doing this and stuff. So you have Revit. It's the same program.
So you do all the massing and all this stuff that you would do the complex buildings. Now, that kind of blows my mind because you can make clunky building models as it is, right? So how do you even begin [00:04:00] when it comes to doing BIM for landscape design?
Alejandro Gatica: As any landscape project, you start a little flat. Because it's just easier to understand all the design because then the levels will make it more and more difficult. You basically start with the flat thing as usual with the CAD and usually the landscape designer designing CAD and then you receive a CAD file.
And then from that CAD file you. Make it a 3D model and just start to plug in information that you need to extract. All sorts of information that for the pavings, for the specifications, NBSN specifications, COBE Uniclass, all of that data is important. Also for the planting. The planting have a lot of data that needs to be then scheduled.
And show. 'cause there are a lot of requirements depending of area of the world as well. The Middle East will have different requirements and in the uk so yeah, , it's it's I think the levels is one of the main challenges. 'cause it's not something that in a building with gravity, you have all the levels for each lab.
And then if you wanna change [00:05:00] the height, it's just automatic. But then in landscape view, it's not that automated because it's like a mass, it's a surface that change and then you have to solve the steps, have slopes to be compliant. And then also you use slopes to do mounts or specific features in the landscape that are not Things that can be automated.
It's more like something custom, bespoke. So then when you have changes, it's oh, it's a bit difficult sometimes to cope with all of them. But the good thing is that later on, it's very easy to manage the project, to have all the drawings and print them, have automatic changes in sections and so on. Yeah.
All
Stephen Drew: You definitely sound like the right person for it, okay, but rather than me asking loads of totally silly questions, there will be a few silly questions later, because it's been a long time since I've [00:06:00] done a bit of BIM and Revit, but maybe because you had this amazing presentation of cool stuff, if you're happy with it, perhaps we can just quickly jump into that together and go through it?
Alejandro Gatica: Yeah,
Stephen Drew: that be all right?
Alejandro Gatica: Yeah, certainly. Thanks,
Stephen Drew: like that moment of pressure, isn't it? You're like, will the file load? You've got half a chance because I'm not doing it and I tend to crash it as well, but here we go. So it seems like it's, yeah. Hooray! Okay, so for the audio listeners, check this out on video, but we're going to be talking about exploring BIM for landscapes, so expanding upon what you were saying Alejandro earlier as well.
I'll let you, over to you for a little while.
Alejandro Gatica: Okay. I will talk a little bit of BIM for landscape. So this is a project that is in London and it's a project that was made in BIM. So all these terraces you see over here, the podium, and also The areas in the ground floor are [00:07:00] all part of a BIM model that was developed for this project.
So yeah, it's possible. You can see it. It's there. A little bit on myself. So as I said I'm a chartered RIBA part two architect from Chile. And then I did a master's in BIM in Spain. Also, I did a visual programming in parameter design Diploma. But I worked just a year in Chile in an architectural company that did housing.
So very normal work, but then I realized that BIM was the thing. And thanks of the, what I learned in the master's, I was able to get a job. in Atkins in Dubai, working for the Landscape Studio there. And I worked there three years. It was a great experience, a very nice project. And then thanks to that experience, I was able to work in here in Gillespie's in the UK.
So that's a little bit my path. Yes so I will, To showcase some projects just to illustrate this before that I just want to say I work with Revit. I [00:08:00] know there are other BIM softwares but in my case Revit has been the tool in all the companies I have worked. That's it.
Everything I will talk will be around Autodesk products and solutions. to deliver won't be regarding other softwares. Currently we are working towards the ISO 19650. So we have a whole BIM implementation in the company that will enhance what we do. So these are some projects.
This one is. In Qatar, it's a whole island. It's I work like in six different projects over there. So you have the hotels, you have the retail, you have the streetscapes, you have mosques, you have a linear park, which is this one here. I have a canal that I'm working on. Across the whole island.
It's crazy. It was a huge project with many details and things going on coordination with not only the architecture, but also the utilities, highways. It was [00:09:00] big. Big project. And it's currently being built. If you Google Github Finance and Nord, you will find it how it's progressing. So I, yeah, I think they, they will plan to finish soon.
But it's five phases but it's a very exciting project. They have a very nice waterpark as well. So yeah, complex, difficult. And when I was working on it this it was like early stages of being It's in Revit for landscape. So we have to figure out things. And and that was the reason I took the parametric diploma, because this one was more about solutions with Dynamo or Rasshopper, then going back now to the UK and the Lesbis projects I wanted to just showcase these three projects just to show the different kind of things that can be done in landscape. So this one is, for example, it's a rooftop so you have a lot of coordination happening with all the slabs and what's going on just below but it's a whole park on top of the building, so very complex and very exciting as well.[00:10:00]
But also like a regenerations. Of neighborhoods public spaces and things like that, where we could put rain gardens for people to enjoy the public space, so that enhancing those kinds of areas in the city, and also visitor experiences were, like, important. But you basically need to get access to one of these places where you can enjoy an experience with animals or with other nature.
So all of this is made in Revit and passing through, of course, some processing to be showcased, right?
And then, yeah it's But it's not just about showing projects in a render. It's also about building them. So this is a successful project in Stockport that is have a one or some awards already.
It's a bus interchange which is very nice because you have a cycle way that connects, and then you can go and get to the other level. And here you can get to the bus have also a residential [00:11:00] building. You can see here a snap of. The models all together, the confederated model, all the Revit models together, it also includes a park behind, that we have modeled all the trees, locations, also the planting beds, so each of these planting beds have different specifications of planting, and also the furniture, you can see there, but it's over there.
So yeah, nice scheme, finish, and the project was showcased at the beginning as well. This is a render sketch render from Lumion. So we also, beam models allows you to as well, to get out these very nice visuals. But to, just to check how the project will look like. And you can see that it's like that, all this podium, all everything that's going on, all the planting specs the design and the coordination was allowed because of BIM. In AutoCAD, these kind of things can be very challenging, and with Revit, it's very easy to check and coordinate with the [00:12:00] consultants. And then the results are very good.
So Yeah, we're quite happy with that. So yeah, a little bit more of Gillespiece. So Gillespiece is a global consultancy of landscape landscape architecture, landscape planning, master planning as well. And we design environments experiences. For the people. And and we work in coordination with others disciplines as well.
Architecture, most of them architects, but also with other engineers and and developers. And BIM has been a key tool in order to deliver some of these complex projects. So yeah, the studio is quite dynamic. This is some snaps of the London studio. We have different spaces to collaborate within the team and also externally. And also, we have a lot of fun as well. It's not just working. We have a day out, summer day out. We have a range of benefits that enhance our [00:13:00] experience at work. We make some friends and have fun. Very nice moments as well. So yeah, the company culture is very nice. It's something that I really value here.
I also got you a sample project just to showcase I know I show you like very complex and difficult projects. Yeah. We can talk more about later. I just want to show you like a bit of a Very simple, typical landscape project that you get for a residential building or something like that. So this is a project in Manchester.
Stephen Drew: nice.
Alejandro Gatica: So it's a new development with some towers and they have some private gardens, of course. Just for the people that live there. And all of this render was made in Lumion but all of these are, is modeled in, in Revit. The project is this size all the lands all the areas around the buildings, what you're seeing is what is in our scope.
But I will just showcase this area just Make it simple. It's quite similar to the rest of the project, but [00:14:00] so we have all the elements more or less of all the landscape elements feature here. What's going on is that we have coordinated with the architectural Revit model. And also with the structures below as well but then we can have our families of benches, our families of bollards, our families for all this edging the floors that in this case will represent the planting beds, but also, and here also the floors that would represent the paving.
With railings, we represent over here, the edges that separate the interface with the. between the paving and the planting bed, or the lawn in this case. In Revit 2024, this will be toposolids, which is a mixture of floors and topographies all together, so you can have direct view contours from it.
And then, of course, you have the planting, which is like the main thing of the landscape architect. So here you can see some planting families. These were made by the guys from [00:15:00] Environment. Plugin Arc Intelligence have a landscape plugin and they got, they, they give away some of these families for everyone to use so you can get them for free if you like.
So we use it here just to because it was easy to plug the, plug this in with all the information we require. So this is just a 3d model of it. But then because it's Revit, you can use this 3d model to do all your drawings, to do all the documentation that you need by filtering using the data of each element.
So like a general arrangement plan, very simple. You can see here, this is. Common problem from Revit, we have been there for years that basically when you start to do all the slopes in the floor Revit solved it with triangles and then the patterns shrunk, as you can see there, and over there, all these patterns shrunk.
And it doesn't look well, especially if these are like block papers, it will look so bad when you have all this [00:16:00] triangulation and that has been a challenge. We have to make a workaround in order to solve that. I'll show that later. But then you can then filter the things, so then you hide all the softscapes, which are all the planting beds and the planting itself, and the furnitures, of course, to showcase what is going on with the hardscapes, the pavings.
Yeah, in this case, it's only one paving, very simple project, and a solution over here for the art. Edging of the canal, the tactiles, and the star itself. And then you make another duplication of the view, and then you filter it again, you can, you get, we already got our view templates as well where you can then have all the furniture.
Attack all the types. Then next to it will appear the schedule that will specify each of these. Same with all the edging that in, have the interfaces between the elements. So this will be the rice planters. And this will be a flash edge for the lung that is next to it. So then the water of the lung doesn't destroy the paving.
Later on. [00:17:00] And also drainage, so that water doesn't go towards the building. That's something that we always have to check. And in this case, Revit is very useful because you can directly check if the levels are correct. And if it's actually sloping outside the building, or if it is sloping inside the building, then you have to put some drainage solution in order to control it.
It helps on the design, decisions on that. And planting. So planting is like our big our big thing in regards of that. 'cause the plantings the plantings have lots of things like water demand spacing with them 'cause or different species, or different characters. For that, we usually get databases, and there are other softwares that provide those databases, like Keyscape or Artisan which are providers of landscape software, which have all these databases that then can be plugged through the BIM model, the Revit model. And then you basically get all this data and you embed [00:18:00] it into the families.
So in this case, we are using the family, the three families, and we are using also the planting families to store that data. In this case, I'm just showcasing the quantity, the names and the quantities. And then with that, we just make this, the scheduling. Now, If you notice, now we don't have the shrink that I showed before, and that's because we put a field region on top.
So this plugin allows you to select areas and automatically will create your field region that will mask the pattern, the original pattern. It can match the pattern, but also you can use another pattern. In this case, I used another pattern. It's just, yeah, it's a different color. Then the problem with the field regions is that the field regions will cover any other loadable families like trees or furniture.
So then the workaround was to make another view with only trees and furniture and put it on top of it. So that way you have two views, you need to do the views to do one, but that's a kind of a trick just to avoid [00:19:00] the thing of the shrinkness of the field region. I just have an issue that we have communicated, but there's.
There is no solution, strict solution yet, so we have to do this workaround in Rev to make this nice. Otherwise, you will see the patterns up on top of the planting and it, it won't read very well.
Stephen Drew: not the
Yeah.
Alejandro Gatica: Yeah, but this looks nice with the filtering we call, give the colors so you can easily identify where the planting and so on.
And levels. The big thing of landscape is to solve this. Because it seems simple, but just a small thing can that requires an extra step can change the whole area around. It's very it's complicated. Sometimes it's challenging. We have some steps here, so we have to check how the levels work towards that and then all the rest around, because we'll have now the planters that can then work out that area.
to then work out the levels [00:20:00] correctly and all the slopes. So here it becomes handy, Revit. It's a little bit more of time on modeling it properly. But you get then the benefits of check if the information is actually correct. And then also generate sections very quickly, like this one that you can see below.
It's just we just got the foundations from the structure. We just get everything from the architects. And we've got the background, nice background from that. That section is being cut there. And then we can see all this planting working on in the landscape. We can see the levels and then it's just making out a little bit this, how the tagging, how the people with maybe another tree.
And in this case this is a CAD import. of in the family so the tree family have a cap import that is only visible in this view we just be filtering and things like that and same with all these other planting that you see there so we have the 3d model but then for the drawings we still need to the So this is the way to show it.
And this [00:21:00] 2D is like a legacy. So these are CAD blocks that then were like made up to be into Revit families that then can be showcased. Yeah. And the next benefit of it is that You can then walk into the models. So you can get immersive experiences just before the, even the model is the project is built.
So you can check, you just enter there, you are in first person view, you can get the headset if you like, and then walk around and you will detect problems. For sure, because when you are in a, in that scale, you start to see more things and then you see that some spaces are not working when I was, when I did this the first time I checked, I figured out there was a problem with a level there, and then it was, okay because if I was orbiting the model, I wouldn't notice, and then I would snap for a spot elevation there for the drawing, and it was wrong, so that was, This helped me to then check the model and then say, okay, this makes sense.
I will, I can be here. You can check all the heights or if it is [00:22:00] too narrow or not. And so that's nice. And then with that, then you can just create a very nice visual. Very quickly with the software. In this case, it's Lumion, but you can also use Twinmotion, which is better for other things for example, if you want to put automatic planting, so you have all these planting families, you can select them and replace them with a digital asset from Twinmotion straight away.
So that's very nice, and also for videos. But Lumion also has a very nice library of planting, and it also has very well, Good results that then can be showcased like this or can be like an in person experience as well. We're doing this 360 Visual renders that then you can plug into a headset or you can make a virtual tour and so on.
So there are many benefits from the BIM model, not only the drawing management or the coordination, right? Because you also get, you can also get these nice visuals that [00:23:00] Before we're made in SketchUp EC, most people know it, and they do a model and then you plug that into Lumion and then you, or DreamMotion, and then you can generate a realistic render.
But with Revit you can also do that, so why not do it straight away in Revit, and then, and you will get all the benefits of it. So that's more or less I think maybe we can pass on some questions, because I think they're like this.
Stephen Drew: cool. No, it's great. And thanks for sharing that. I've got a few questions about the role right now and how that looks. But then also, I want to know a bit more about how you got here as well. So talking about the present Specifically about the software right now, you mentioned you have to do a few workarounds, right?
Do you think that's because sometimes maybe some BIM products are more designed for architecture? Or is it that they are starting to do more landscape stuff? Or do you find that because of your niche role, you have to find these [00:24:00] workarounds for your specific problems?
Alejandro Gatica: Yeah, for sure. Revit is, was made for buildings. I was thinking, we have some capabilities before with this thing of the modify the points of the floor and then we have topographies, but we're most like a context thing, not for this time, probably. Before Revit 2024, I have to use both Floors and topographies in order to model.
So whatever I was basically was doing was having a big surface and then all these flat floors and with a Dynamo script, I was matching the levels of them. So basically acquiring the floor level. to the topography and then it have had a change. I have to change the topography, reset the floor, and then match again.
So that was the thing. Then appeared all these plugins that did that and more things. So then it was like, OK, let's get the It just it's just easier because I'm a Dynamo user. I can use Dynamo for the solution, but then if I want to communicate to someone that is not a Dynamo It's [00:25:00] just learning Revit and you get the dynamo fire, it's like, what is this?
So then the plugin just makes it easier. And it has much more solutions. So yeah, Revit is more for buildings, but then comes these plugins that help help the landscape and they're specific for landscape because they help. There is a niche, there is a necessity and need to be covered in a way.
So there is market for it. And that's why they exist. And we use it and it greatly impact, it has a great impact positive impact on our delivery, not only on the modeling thing, but also in the management thing and the visual and the graphics of the drawings and things like that.
So yeah. I think the rabbit 2024 with the top of solids is a great advance because now I don't need to have the topography on the floors. Now the top of solids is the one that combine both. So that's good that I was quite happy. Because of that. But still there, there are still some things that especially when you wanna be more detailed about the, about some shapes for the levels, like when you're gonna do rain [00:26:00] gardens or when you gonna do some mountings and things like that.
Where is rabbit? Core Rabbit, I call it is slow. Very slow. And then the time that you put into project can be too high for something that is. Very small, no great impact, and you spend a lot of time on it. These plugins help to gather that.
Stephen Drew: Yeah, no, it's quite cool because you're at that bleeding edge because there hasn't been a use like, as you mentioned, maybe there wasn't a demand before, but because of the complex projects that you've got, and the fact that you're working with architects, then you need to do this more and more.
And that's what my next question I was going to ask is, because Landscape Architects that I've known before they, I've not met many people Landscape Architects that do Revit, right? They're like, no, that's not my part, that's the Architects
Alejandro Gatica: Are very few. Very few. I, the ones that I know is the ones I trained.
Stephen Drew: Yeah. [00:27:00] Okay. That's interesting, isn't it? Do you think there's going to be more Landscape Architects in the future then, using Revit? Or do you think it's still going to take a lot of time to get there?
Alejandro Gatica: I think we are already delayed. This process that landscape architecture in this industry is passing through is a common thing. Everyone is struggling with it. And and I believe a, the architects, I've passed through this before but now, because Landscape Architects just delay on it, but we are learning as well of how architects solve it, to then apply it in Landscape Architecture, and then I become like a link, because I'm an architect, I can talk with architects as well, and when they talk about BIM concepts, I can understand what they mean.
They want to say Landscape Architects something struggled to understand what's going on. So then I have to jump there and support so that way, then that knowledge then can be spread through the company. And that's what's going on in Gillespie. We now got a team of landscape architects that know Revit, they work in Revit by themselves, so [00:28:00] that's a very great achievement.
Stephen Drew: Yeah. No really cool. And okay, so we, you touched upon Revit is mainly the driver for BIM, but then you also touched upon that you use Dynamo, right?
Alejandro Gatica: Yeah.
Stephen Drew: you're back, maybe you've got that Rhino background, I'm assuming, the parametric as well. So I can see why you use Revit. Because of the core nature of the projects and stuff, but I was just wondering what typical software would a landscape architect use alongside a Revit at the
Alejandro Gatica: Yeah most of the architectural companies we use AutoCAD. And then if they need and if they need to do any 3D model, they will use SketchUp. And
Stephen Drew: I've got bad memories of SketchUp,
Alejandro Gatica: me too, every time I say this name. But then the thing is, yeah, it will be SketchUp or Rhino. Which are 3D softwares. I prefer Rhino.
Stephen Drew: Yeah, Rhino's got a bit more class, it's SketchUp is down here, sorry SketchUp, but [00:29:00] Rhino
Alejandro Gatica: Rhino, yeah.
Stephen Drew: yeah, it's a different league, but very cool. Do you think then, and because we're going to talk a little bit about your parametric background, but then do you think so, then how does it work?
So you've got Dynamo, which is the scripting, right? That connects with Revit. Do you see any other 3D models, which are doing all this cool parametric stuff then feeds into your other things?
Alejandro Gatica: Yeah, if we get like a, I don't know, a design that is more curvilinear and with complex geometries, probably Rhino will be the tool, and then we can use different ways to plug that into Revit. Grasshopper inside Revit, Rhino inside Revit. That can be a way. Environment also have a button. We connect Rhino with Revit very nicely.
So you select the things, the elements in Rhino, and then you assign them a family and a category and the whole thing. And then you will get that into the model. So that's also a, so Rhino and Revit have a, can [00:30:00] talk while Sketch up and Revit cannot. I know that the Rhino Studio, you can import Revit.
But it's not the other way around. You cannot get a r a sketch up into Revit. You can import a cad. If you go to CAD imports, you will get the sketch up file, but it's not the same
Stephen Drew: yeah, I know. I think you've been really nice here because I used to do 3D Max models and then I would look at a SketchUp model and think this is a pile of, rubbish. You're like, what the heck is going on? How has anyone used this? But but yeah, it's very interesting. So some things have moved on really fast.
Some things are the same. Revit has taken 10 years easily in the UK to get to where it is now. 2014, not many people were using it. But what's interesting is I'm seeing more and more now is, and you touched upon it in your presentation, it's like a Lumion sketch render quick. Because renders, Used to when I was doing 3D Max and stuff, you'd get the light and you get [00:31:00] everything.
It would take a day or two and you'd have to tweak it, change it. And you hope you've got everything in the right position. You would do all that stuff. But it sounds like in terms of the process that you're doing, is this a lot faster? Do you find then that you use these quick renders, work it out quick renders?
Is that the process? Is it a lot faster on that front
Alejandro Gatica: Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Lumion is nice. But I prefer I'm now into Twinmotion because now it's just, it's the button is just there.
Stephen Drew: You just press it.
Alejandro Gatica: go to view, you just press it and then you supply the materials and boom, you got, you get a very nice render. I would say that it's just a, an extra step from what.
Enscape will be. Enscape maybe is faster. If you get Enscape, you just put the Revit and Enscape will have, will give you a fair render straight away. But Twinmotion can be, can give you better renders, I think. With you have more control of the materials, of everything that's going on the assets [00:32:00] as well.
Have this thing for trees that can grow, so you can make a video of the trees growing up. That's very nice. You can have a change of season. So it's very nice for video, I think. For quick rendering, it's just easy. Lumion also have the live sync. So if you get, if you have Lumion in your machine with Revit, you can also use the
Stephen Drew: Oh, that's quite cool.
Alejandro Gatica: connect directly as well.
Yeah, they're competitors and they have similar features. But both of them are very good. There is just different approaches. I will say Lumion have a more complete library of planting and a more complete filtering and like a sketchy render I showed you in Twinmotion. I didn't find it. They have like color.
Color filters and things like that are in different styles. But yeah, they have, but then in Lumen, you cannot put all the assets automatically, you have to go one by one or do this thing of the line. And then for the video, you only have this thing of moving the camera around, but then the people is like there.[00:33:00]
While in the Twinmotion, the people will walk, will do things, will call by phone. So yeah, they have their pro and cons, but yeah, it's very quick now, it's very easy. You just get, you have to get the software installed and then just plug the Revit and it will connect and you will have a render from it.
So that's nice.
Stephen Drew: Yeah. No really cool and useful. And the last question I have around the point of attack, because, okay, so that all these Twinmotion and stuff, it all comes from like the gaming industry, right? 3D engines, all this stuff, really cool, really fast, Unreal, real time. The other bit in the last two to three years everyone's talking about, especially last year, is AI, right?
AI, and I'm not so much interested in will it replace our jobs, but what, you're probably seeing it in a few ways. There's the BIM front. There's the generative design front, which I would suspect there could be a lot of influence there. But how, so my question is on AI, [00:34:00] have you seen this down to blurring and what is your feelings on it?
Do you feel positive? Do you think it can improve this space that you're in?
Alejandro Gatica: Yeah, I'm positive about it. I think AI is one of the greatest New tools have appeared now. Now it's just about to enclose it in a way, because if it gets too free, maybe there is a danger there. But in terms for our practice, we have tried MidJourney ChatGPT, the typical ones, the more famous ones, and Runway as well for Testing videos and things like that.
In general, it's like at the beginning, it's like a wow effect. This is amazing. This is so fast, but then you start to look a little bit more and then you start to see all those hands and eyes and things that don't make so much sense. So then you have to question yourself Will take me more editing this than doing from scratch.
So that then, so then you have to think about it because yeah, you get loads of information, but then you [00:35:00] have to work out that information in order to show it and make and do something great. Because now if not everyone will see that you're doing ai. We're getting used to it now. Sometimes I see sponsors as ads and things, and I say that this is AI , and and then it's okay.
Maybe we can do better, I think. I believe still AI is in the early stages. I don't think this is still there is not the maturity yet of these tools to replace humans, but for sure people that know AI will replace people that don't. That's what I think, because it can speed up things very quickly. For myself, I'm a non native English speaker.
is very useful with something when I write something and then I have the doubt if this spell correct me, I just give it to CharGBT, can you check this correctly? And then I also learn. So when, then when the response on it, and also for organized things, they're saying Put a text or put a web page.
Can you give me a quick summary of this? Can you explain to me what is this about? Or maybe give [00:36:00] a also a web page with for an application or something and then ask questions frequent questions to the ChatGVT. That's very nice as well. So there are loads of capabilities, but it's something that we need to figure out, I would say.
But yeah, I'm positive, but I'm also keeping an eye on it and also it's difficult as well to be in the forefront because it's very fast. So you need to be updating all the time. I started with the mid journey version 4. So I was late and now we're in version six and it's totally different.
So it's and in just one year and a half. So what will happen in five years? I don't know if this is promising, I think, but it's also a bit scary.
Stephen Drew: yeah, it's it's quite interesting though, is that I think a lot of people mentioned, oh, I was late, but actually the adoption rate on AI is still incredibly low, because I think people play around with it and go, whatever, but like how to actually [00:37:00] use it in workflows. It's very different.
It's very hard, right? It'll be interesting if, like you say, that people actually embrace it more and more.
Alejandro Gatica: Yeah.
Stephen Drew: we'll have to see, but also speaking about today and the present now you've transitioned from Architect, you've done the cool tech, you're the twinkle in your eye, the parametric design, then BIM, so you've gone from architect, computational design, and now we're doing BIM as well.
And of course you never forget that, but you've made that career move, and some people who are listening here might be at the start of their career, middle, but they've got their eye on that, they've taken a twinkle to it, and they would love to, make a move like yourself to specialize in it.
Do you have a little bit of advice you have for anyone on that front on how to start going that direction into a more tech focused role that supports design rather than design in first, [00:38:00] if that makes sense?
Alejandro Gatica: Yeah. I have been always near to computers, I will say. I have a facility with tech from early moments of my life. So I think that'll make it easier for me. I know that there's some people that are not very keen to use some technology. So if you are keen to technology I would say.
Just learn. I learned for myself a lot of things. Then I took the courses just to certify me, but I actually knew them before learning YouTube. YouTube, there's a lot of people that share things for free and then you just have to see the videos and try for yourself and, Resolve, basically resolve what you need to resolve for a project or anything and for sure you will get an outcome from it that will be useful for the future.
So I started that way. I knew that Revit was a thing so I started seeing YouTube videos of Revit and then I got a job in Revit and then I said, okay, I need more. So I [00:39:00] got then the diploma, the masters, and then. I realized that Dynamo was very powerful, so then I said, okay, if I want to do more, then I need to learn this.
So I did the diploma into that as well. And then at the same time I got, I started to, because when you start to push these things, opportunities will appear and then you will be ready to take them. That's the thing as well. I got the opportunity to apply for this job in, in, in Dubai for, with the landscape studio.
And because of that I started to solve these challenges. So that was Yeah, that was more or less the thing. Be prepared for solving the problems that that the industry needs. So it's just a span, what is going on right now, and then you got to take the decisions that are good for yourself.
If you are more like a design minded and artistic, that is another approach. But if you want to be tech be curious and just learn for yourself and then if you want to get certified. That's cool. Do it. And you will get much more, but it's just easier to know a [00:40:00] little bit before getting into it.
If you go to a BIM diploma without knowing anything about BIM, it will be a bit rough for you. So yeah, so just a little bit more of productivity and be seeing what is on the forefront. Being, being aware of the innovations that are out there. For example, now these guys from Veras have a plugin for Revit that do renders AI rendered directly from the Revit model.
Those guys are ahead of the game. Because I suppose they got the Diffusion or something like that, and then that's because Stable Diffusion is a bit difficult for normal people. But then these make it just easier because it's a plugin and then you get it in Revit and then you get an AI render if you like AI renders.
It's a thing to be observant of what's going on and learn, always learning new things.
Stephen Drew: yeah really good advice. I agree. I think the best way to do it. So if you do something, it's just to throw yourself in and just start doing it, build something, get going, [00:41:00] there's nothing better than a project to actually spur that along. Really cool. Before I go, before we wind down to the end, I normally like to ask my guests, if they have a question for me that they would like to ask me at all, is there anything that you want to ask me, perhaps?
Alejandro Gatica: Yeah, I just want to ask you something. Now I have the opportunity.
Stephen Drew: Yeah.
Alejandro Gatica: How you started doing postcards of architecture? How that came on?
Stephen Drew: The podcast, oh goodness gracious, in the pandemic, the, while there's the business of the Architecture Social, which is a lot around careers, recruitment, finding jobs, originally, it was a forum because it was the pandemic and we were knocking around and there was a lot for us to do. I was just there was nothing to do and therefore there was no sense of community or play so it seemed like a really good opportunity to have this forum and I thought oh it should be maybe for part ones part twos [00:42:00] and then we had this forum and then I again I think even if you don't do architecture anymore it's a bit like you know you've always got that brain and you're thinking about oh maybe we should do this maybe we should do that and then I was like we've got all these cool people in the forum.
Let's get them on the podcast. So if you ever look back at the original ones, my gosh, they're a bit rough and ready and, around the edges. But again, it's like the coding thing. You're always learning, right? So it's let's just do it. And I remember the first like live stream I ever did, there was like three people in the forum and I absolutely was blown away.
Brick in myself. I was like, oh gosh, it's going to be a nightmare. I can't do this. I'm sweating, profusely, panicking, slightly hungover from the night before because I was panicking then. Whatever, right? But then, but you get used to it over time. You get used to it. And I think that It was more about the community forum at the time and now it's taken a life on its own, which is cool.
And that's a lesson because the original idea was the forum, but after the [00:43:00] pandemic, the forum went, the users went down on that, but the podcast went up and that's the lesson that you have to keep moving. I don't know. I that's like how I message you. I always think, Oh, my, that might be a good idea.
And then ping a message off. If someone comes back, then cool. And I like to keep it some more friendly and, or whatever, and informal and we all learn, but that's really how it started. So it was just a complete. Not afterthought, Oh when it'd be cool, let's just do it. Let's just experiment.
And then, you start learning at first you have the crap microphone and then you start learning the technology and I guess cuts out and then you say something stupid and then, you just, but you just keep going with these things, and over time it gets a bit easier, bit like your landscape models, and then fun, then a cool thing comes out and then
Alejandro Gatica: And at the beginning, how you figure out the content, because I saw you like doing this thing of the cvs, doing tips for applying
Stephen Drew: Oh, yeah, I might do them again soon. Yeah, I don't know. I think [00:44:00] right now, sometimes I ask myself that, and then I think sometimes being busy, just you just get it done. You're just like we're gonna do a cool episode. And I think maybe sometimes it's quite nice not to overthink it.
I think I always think of these if, how can someone get value out of it? And usually the more successful people, Podcast will be about, oh, okay, actually, this isn't about me or you. This is actually about the listener really, isn't it? And what they can get from the topic. And really, if they feel like they've got something meaningful, then they're more likely to reach out to you.
Or they, cause you, you've touched them, like the person that where you were five years ago, you're like BIM. Landscape, what? And then they find you through that. And then so I think the most successful episodes are the ones like that, that, hey, I've done some clangers. I once met someone on the last mini story, because before, because I know you've got to go, but I met someone on that in real life and they had this really compelling story.
And I thought, you should come on the podcast. You're [00:45:00] not really in architecture, but come on, because it was basically someone that fought through. Adversity disability to make this really cool online platform. But then when they did the episode, it was like a walking earth infomercial. I was like, oh gosh, this is, was, this isn't what I heard.
And then and that video is still up. Might take it down at some point, but it's the lowest rated video. On the social and it was a good lesson because you're like, Oh, okay, so you've got to be really careful. But luckily architectural professionals, like you mentioned on YouTube, just giving stuff away for free, which is actually probably this is a very good thing rather than keeping that information.
So anyways, a long rant, but we're learning and I think truth shines through. And I think walking infomercial. No, one's got time for,
Alejandro Gatica: yeah. It's a thing of finding the value, yeah, as well. And in this podcast, I would say that one of the values is [00:46:00] to show people that landscape is possible with BIM. It's not, I understand that other softwares like Vectorworks that are also like a specific solution for landscape architects as well.
But it's just a thing to find and be curious and learn. There are, in YouTube, there are people that I really admire them because they do these videos for free. You get all the information from Balkan Architects, for example, have videos of everything. It includes some landscape as well. And there are some people that have a whole tutorial of Rhino for landscape.
Yeah. Information is there. It's just put some time and learn. And then if you want to get certified you can do it. And also, the other thing is that landscape architecture is is a career, is a proper career, yeah. But an architect can also work in landscape architecture.
There are other architects, single SPs, and also architectural technicians, single SPs. So that's not a [00:47:00] barrier. So if you are like a young. Architect, and if you're interested, you can get a job in Landscape Architecture as well,
Stephen Drew: very inspiring. And the last thing I'll say before we, we'll bring up Gillespie's website and stuff, but the last thing is that when I was talking earlier about like the gaps or is really Revit designed for architecture, it's less about a critique on Autodesk. So Autodesk, if you're out there.
I will remove all this. If you sponsor me, you'll be deleted. I'm only joking. But where I'm going with this is that there's a need that's emerging, right? And you're there and a few others. And I think that's an interesting space for innovation. So right now it's work around cause you're there at the front, but I think.
In a few years time, this will start, as we talked about it, they'll start to be more and more. So actually for the listeners, I think there's a, there's an opportunity here, that, and I think the places which are less documented because there's nothing there is actually the places where you can have a real impact and be part of it as it goes [00:48:00] along.
So I think it's a really exciting space to be in, but on that note now, so if someone is excited by this, They want to get in touch or whatever. They've Googled you or they've frantically looked for BIM in landscape. There's been nothing, but they found this video. How do they get in touch with you?
How do people find you and all that stuff?
Alejandro Gatica: I'm in LinkedIn it's Alejandro Mas Ferrer Gatica which is a difficult surname, but I believe the Alejandro Gatica, you can find me.
Stephen Drew: Yeah, you can find you. And also, so I'm just going to bring up here. So we got Gillespie's website, which is Gillespie's uk and that's spelled G I L E S P I E S. So that's Gillespie's and you're on the website as well. People can get in touch on the LinkedIn links there as well. So I've got that right now, but search for Alessandro on Gillespie's, but on that note, thank you so much today.[00:49:00]
I really appreciate you being here and sharing that. So thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Stay on the stage for me one second though, because I'm going to wind this down now and just do the outro and say thank you to the listeners. Hopefully you found this interesting. Whether you're a landscape architect in the making, or you are now, or you're an architect that's, doing this stuff, or maybe You're like Alejandro here in the middle.
You're in that tech world trying to work out the madness. Then let us know what you think. And do get in touch with him here on Girl Recipes or find him on LinkedIn. But thank you everyone in the audience. I'm going to end this podcast now. Have a lovely day, wherever you are. Take care, everyone. Bye bye.
Alejandro Gatica: Thank you.