How to Actually Get Hired in Architecture and Interior Design

00:00:00:04 - 00:00:11:24
Unknown
Right. Okay. Thank you so much for. Come in. So a little bit about me. So I used to work in architecture. I was a part one and a part two, and I went to industry, so I got my degree in diploma.

00:00:12:02 - 00:00:29:18
Unknown
So trust me, I know that bit. So hopefully I can help you out a little bit. Unlike Christina is a fabulous architect. I then did architecture for three years and I fell into recruitment. No one plans to go and recruitment, but I was like, oh, I don't really want to do architecture for me, but I'd like to do something else.

00:00:29:23 - 00:01:06:14
Unknown
And then I met a friend and he was like, why don't you be a recruiter? You like talking. And then I said, what? What is a recruiter? And he said, you get paid to help people get jobs. Now, when people pay for that, sign me up. However, I learned in that job all the stuff behind the scenes. Suddenly I went from the applicant who applied for jobs and done all this stuff to seeing behind the scenes, seeing the short cut, seeing how people get jobs, also, seeing the things that get you accidentally ignored, the reasons why people don't get invited to when they the the reasons why people don't get the interviews.

00:01:06:14 - 00:01:22:17
Unknown
And how do you know all this stuff? I was stuff that I never knew. So what I'll do today is I'll give you all the secrets that I know. On how to stand out in a crowded market. Now, the good news is you're all here. So that's step one, because you've come and you could have gone and could have been in bed.

00:01:22:17 - 00:01:43:14
Unknown
Whatever. But you came today and I appreciate that. And that attitude, if you carry it out, will get you a job. Now, I'm not going to pretend that getting the job is easy. It's like being metaphorically in the boxing ring and you're going to get punched in the face. Metaphorically, I go, I say that before anyone goes what you want about, but basically you're competing, aren't you?

00:01:43:15 - 00:02:04:05
Unknown
And so you've got to be out there. You've got to go and find and do all this stuff. You can all do it. It is a little bit about endurance. Okay. So show of hands now. So I understand how many people here are international students that are looking to get jobs in the UK when they graduate. Quite a for the majority.

00:02:04:07 - 00:02:19:17
Unknown
All right internationals I'm going to tailor a little bit of this talk how to get a job in the UK as well because I know that can be a stress point, you know. Oh my gosh, what do I do with my visa? How do I say myself? Am I a disadvantage? Am I an advantage? It's a bit of both.

00:02:19:21 - 00:02:42:06
Unknown
Some pros, some things you just got to accommodate. And when do you graduate? Roughly. So you said September, September. Okay. So we go up time. So maybe what we can do is I'll talk about a few things that we can include in the portfolio as well. Can I ask.

00:02:42:08 - 00:03:09:08
Unknown
Is it architecture and interiors are or interiors cool. So is the idea of an architecture practice or an interior design studio? You like interior design first and maybe architecture? Both want to do both. All right. We can do both. Okay, so you didn't need to worry yet about pattern. Oh, I'm hearing things. I'm going deaf. I'm going deaf of 37.

00:03:09:08 - 00:03:32:10
Unknown
Ben, that's not a good start. Is a right. Where was I? Okay, so if you do in September, when's the hand-in last question? Sorry, I'm getting really medical. September 27th. So they just graduated. Congrats. So they are kind of looking for work already, right? They are going to graduate at the end of September, but good thing I'm doing the notes.

00:03:32:10 - 00:03:50:01
Unknown
Then I'll send you some things you don't need to worry about. Now, I think some of it for you is getting the strength of your work up as much as possible, focusing on the everything, and then really, you want to, I would say get ready a month or two before. So if you graduate and then you're ready, you're in the pit.

00:03:50:01 - 00:04:13:22
Unknown
Yeah. All right. We'll do both. Okay. Good. So let's wind it back and go holistically. How do we get a job? What is a job? A job is a need in a design studio okay. There's a little bit about helping with graduates and all this stuff. But really there's a need in the in, in the business and you've got to fulfill that need.

00:04:14:02 - 00:04:35:22
Unknown
And that's what I need to do, is convincing them that you are the right person for the role. That's what it is. When someone's hiring and I employ five people, I want to know that the right person for the job. Now, if you're a graduate, you're not expected to have everything, but it's going to be the design flair that you've got and the tools, which is going to be a trade off for the experience you got again.

00:04:35:24 - 00:04:57:18
Unknown
So they want to they're going to they're going to try and assess that in there. So how do we convey that it's typically a CV and portfolio that you'll be making. Now you're going to be in the course that you're going to be building up this mega project. So like at the end of next September or whenever is you can have this amazing thing and you guys will have this amazing project already.

00:04:57:20 - 00:05:17:09
Unknown
Now in an interview, you're probably going to go and get the 50 sheets. Ben, tell me if I keep walking around too much because I'm terrible at that. You can have these 50 sheets, which and you got to think of it like it's a full discography. I always refer to the Beatles, but who's more trendy? Taylor Swift? She's got like 12 albums right now.

00:05:17:09 - 00:05:44:16
Unknown
You're you're the portfolio is a big thing, but what you need to do when you're applying for a job is send what the recruiter people call a sample portfolio. What is a sample portfolio? It's grabbing people's attention. So you want it to be shorter in length, not 50 sheets that you can go through. You need 10 to 15 pages in that sample portfolio of your recent project.

00:05:44:16 - 00:05:58:14
Unknown
And you know, if you've already done the bit in industry, great. If not, no problem. And that is going to be the bit that grabs people's attention. You think of it when you go down Camden Market and you get in that free piece of chicken and you go, oh, I'm not interested. And then they go, come on, try it.

00:05:58:14 - 00:06:17:21
Unknown
And you go, oh, okay, I buy it. That's where the portfolio is. You're going to entice them to invite you in for an interview. You don't need to send them all the 60 pages. Why? And this is a mistake I made because I was guilty of sending everything. They haven't got time to read 60 pages. We all have short attention spans.

00:06:17:23 - 00:06:39:09
Unknown
Also, if the file is big, you might not be able to send it. Okay. So you want it to be 10 to 15 pages and you really want it under ten megabytes. That's the portfolio I've jumped ahead. There's another document that comes with it which is called the curriculum vitae. I think that's how you pronounce the CV.

00:06:39:11 - 00:07:03:16
Unknown
Oh yeah. As the as the Americans call the resume. And that's kind of the core thing. That's the core document with your portfolio. Start with the CV. So 1 to 2 sheets. Really, really simple. Now you could do something cool and quirky with the colors. But the most important thing is it's legible. Okay. Think of it like a design project.

00:07:03:16 - 00:07:30:14
Unknown
You're going to be amazing in Kiwi designers and you're doing this course. So you're, I believe all of you can do this. You just do a really nice, clean and beautiful document. Now let's ditch word. And now I'm giving you more work. I know, but it's really, really worth doing in InDesign. Why? You have more control. Be is that you use when you're in interior design.

00:07:30:15 - 00:07:48:04
Unknown
There is going to be countless times when you use that. Or you can use quark. Oh, I think there's a new one on Mac, which is for free. Part of affinity, whatever. Like an InDesign esque thing that will give you much more control over your CV and your portfolio. And guess what? You can then put that skill on your CV.

00:07:48:06 - 00:08:08:00
Unknown
So definitely, definitely do that. Don't be limited by words. Word feels easy at the start, but guess what? When you move the stuff around and you delete one line and it goes up, all the stuff, it's a nightmare. Also, don't be the person that uses Photoshop and goes, oh, I love it. And then you raster an image. No no no no no no no no no no.

00:08:08:06 - 00:08:30:16
Unknown
We're going to do it on InDesign. Clean clean clean clear and wonderful. Good. What is in the CV. So I said it was two pages. I say I banged on about the graphic design and I said, you need to use InDesign. Okay. What do we put in there? Now I can do some examples. But what happens is everyone then that's the examples now you've created.

00:08:30:16 - 00:08:52:22
Unknown
So I'm happy for you to go and tailor it, but keep it clear and functional. Can have a nice font, but think about it, you can have your name at the top right? Then you will have the role that you're looking for underneath. So you will say in Kiwi designer graduate in central London. Great I said central London.

00:08:52:22 - 00:09:12:21
Unknown
So let's add in the dress that okay. Even if you haven't got a fixed permanent address and why would you put an address in put a UK address in even if you're not in London right now, so long as you can come down the line because people want to know that you're there. I sometimes get calls from amazing people going, I am ready to go in London.

00:09:12:23 - 00:09:39:12
Unknown
And I go, where are you? They oh, I'm in Australia and I'll come if I get an interview. I'm an import. No one's going to wait for an interview. Oh, yeah? Yeah. No, we want to know if you're in London and you're ready for the hustle, but you're all here, right? So that's great. So you get a London address and you also get a UK mobile phone because like if you get another if someone is not familiar with oh seven which is most Brits leave, it's not oh seven, they go, I don't know where this is.

00:09:39:14 - 00:09:56:11
Unknown
And then they go, oh I'm not going to ring it. It's going to cost me £0.03 in the line. And then you might have missed that interview, which is so stupid because you can have different numbers from wherever. It doesn't really cost any money or whatever, but it's the human nature of people. They go, I don't think that's a UK number, forget it.

00:09:56:11 - 00:10:16:01
Unknown
So it's all these stupid things that happen. So you're going to say that you're in the UK with probably your address and you can put a UK number, even if it's a giffgaff mobile. That's your interview burner phone, which sounds dodgy. This man has two phones, by the way, and he one time he what? The second phone is four so he definitely has a burner phone.

00:10:16:03 - 00:10:33:17
Unknown
But going back to you, you're going to get that mobile phone number. And I know it sounds stupid, but this is the kind of thing that I see all the time. Then for you guys that graduated, you put on your grades and you say you got your Masters in interior design with all the fancy titles University Kingston is great, uni brilliant.

00:10:33:17 - 00:10:53:11
Unknown
Use it for you guys a month or two before you graduate. You can be cheeky and say predicted grades. Oh, you can leave it out if you really want, but I think early bird catches the worm and if you're not tired, it is worth doing in just about the time that you've got your, your hand in your portfolio.

00:10:53:11 - 00:11:11:07
Unknown
So don't worry about it now. And if you're here next year, I'll see you again, and you can test me, or you can dodge me, but you do it around the by the time you hand in, and then you're getting ready for pin up at the end of your show. We do that year round. That time, if you really knackered, you can't look for a job, I guess.

00:11:11:09 - 00:11:33:20
Unknown
But if you can do both, you're putting up that plinth and you're sending applications. It will save you time. Early bird does catch the worm. It just does. Sad fact of life. Okay, just keep going with the CV. So what do we put on the CV? If you've worked in industry before put it on there. Don't freak out if you've never worked in an interior design studio.

00:11:33:20 - 00:11:54:16
Unknown
I never did before. That's fine. Don't need to put it on there. If you've worked in retail or anything else, do put it down. But you I so I worked in Waitrose down the road when I studied architecture. I was in the shelf, but I didn't go into the full job where I said customer face and done this in parallel was study and it was bloody hard.

00:11:54:16 - 00:12:12:06
Unknown
But you know, I wasn't in bed all the time, you know what I mean? So it just shows that you've done a job that's great. If you've not done that, that's fine too. But the females you use, what you've got good news is you got your grades, good news, you've got the uni. But if you've been stacking the shelves like me, use it.

00:12:12:09 - 00:12:35:21
Unknown
If you've done an internship, architecture, interior design practice, use it if you haven't. Fine. We'll still push ahead anyways. People do get into the industry. There's always a way in. Don't be disheartened. But if we got it, let's do it. Okay. What things you put on top. So you gonna put your academia at the top? You don't need to worry about your school grades from five, ten years ago.

00:12:35:22 - 00:12:52:09
Unknown
We can leave them. Come. You can punch from the game if you really want. If you really like. I got a bunch of A's. I'm putting them in. Fine. Right. And if you worried about a grade that you got before, which you don't think represents you, maybe you had C's and now you have first, I don't know, like I'm making this, but you can.

00:12:52:11 - 00:13:15:24
Unknown
You got a first now. Like I got a friend that got in his first year architecture. She got a lower grades and he was really bummed out. And then he went away, did his master's and you got a first. And then he works at Richard Rogers, which is a very famous architecture practice. So the kind of the lower grade he got in the past doesn't matter because he's an associate director, Richard Rogers, whereas I got good grades and I went down this morning so I can go either way.

00:13:15:24 - 00:13:42:17
Unknown
I'm going back to the CV. So we got the experience in there. Say the cool things that you've done in the job. That is what you need to do. Waitrose customer face and doing this, doing that literally. That's all you need. What other things can you put in a resume? So software that's the big thing you got going for you guys in there.

00:13:42:17 - 00:14:02:18
Unknown
Can you give me a flavor. What kind of software you guys use? You use CAD. You sketch up to, you do Photoshop, all of them to do a bit of 3D modeling because you guys are really cool. I've seen the work you do is amazing. So someone say Revit? Am I hallucinating? Now that is a word that an architecture practice were like.

00:14:02:22 - 00:14:30:18
Unknown
And they have an interior design studios and we will loop on that layer. Revit is amazing. It's more architectural and it's more for larger architectural practices. But having it is a plus. Rhino 3D studio Max Maya thing Maya. You use less now, but like those were the really really big ones. But Rhino and Revit is the architecture favor of, some interior design studio.

00:14:30:18 - 00:14:47:21
Unknown
So, I used to have some really well at Deal and POW down Zealand power. I was just pronounced wrong. That seemed very un intellectual of me. I was like Van Zealand pound. It's like, oh, his Zealand pow. But he used to be obvious. He used to say, now you get all the software and he bash it out of you and we make you learn how to sketch.

00:14:47:21 - 00:15:09:03
Unknown
And I was like, well, right. But he still when they were interviewing people say what, what 3D model have you got. What have you done. But you say, now you know the Adobe Photo Suite. Say, now you've been doing Adobe Photoshop for five years, put down five years. Don't say advanced the best because that doesn't. That's hard to quantify.

00:15:09:06 - 00:15:29:10
Unknown
So put the time. Use the software. Also, if you're a really cool, friendly person, you might think, oh, I'm not going to write down Adobe Photoshop. I'm going to put the logo because it looks cool. Now, I'm such an old fart and I've been out of the industry for ten years. I can't tell you what the current Photoshop logo is, and so I get really tripped up and I'm like, is that Maya is I really see the max.

00:15:29:15 - 00:15:55:09
Unknown
So for idiots like me, you have to make the CV idiot proof. So the best way to do it is say Adobe Photoshop, 3D. Oh, that's pretty nice, Max, you got it right. Three years. You teach you if you've been working something hardcore this year. One year. Great. I'm like, oh, you know, one year. Pretty decent software is very, very important activities on the CV.

00:15:55:11 - 00:16:13:13
Unknown
Would you say I have experience in the. Yeah. You can mention and maybe there's a passion and I think it's I think it's really useful and you guys probably don't really cool tools and say now you were doing like a programing tool with AI. You could be like, you know, yeah, I would be tempted to put that. And I that's the first time I've ever been asked by me.

00:16:13:13 - 00:16:42:14
Unknown
It's it's interesting, isn't it, that someone is asking that now do I for I down I have a controversial work on too much on the I think it's becoming a core skill now. I use AI every day, but when I first I would be tempted to do it for me. But I treat I like an assistant and you should use it to give you first draft edits and all this thing, but you don't use it as the final thing.

00:16:42:14 - 00:16:58:22
Unknown
I've made the mistake. I used to use it for all my first social media part. I go, yeah, I can. I was great, people can kind of town. It's like now on the pro side, but who do I use? I get bit of ideas that, yeah, but I'm changing half of it all the time. It doesn't quite work, doesn't quite there.

00:16:58:22 - 00:17:18:13
Unknown
It's not really how I feel, but it really helps you to in the starting point. So I would be tempted to put it in. And I do think that interior design studios will use it in some shape or form. That could also be lead. It into passions and activities. So I do think it's important to put stuff like that down on the CV.

00:17:18:13 - 00:17:44:15
Unknown
So if you've been I mean, I'm making this up, but like you're in the chess club or whatever the social activity. So you got involved in Suffolk, Kingston, which was outside what you do put that in the CV because it shows that you're interested in other stuff. Don't put music. Everyone's into music. Yeah I know, yeah I know, but like maybe would be music production.

00:17:44:19 - 00:18:11:24
Unknown
All right. Interesting. That's in rugby club. All right. Interested in badminton. Yoga. Yeah. Cool. Whatever. Something that can get a conversation. I've seen people get jobs with the interviewer because they were both fans of rugby clubs. I've also seen that I know one person that got an interview because in the portfolio there was references to Blade Runner and then the and then them.

00:18:12:01 - 00:18:33:24
Unknown
I was like essentially Blade Runner. What's your favorite film? The guy when Blade Runner, when you got the job okay. Now it might not work out like that. All the time, but what you're doing is you're creating opportunities for yourself. So if you can go in and any activities you do, it's great. Just more than going home and watching Netflix, which is what I do a lot at the time, but I wouldn't put it on my CV.

00:18:33:24 - 00:18:57:21
Unknown
We have to give that polished version of yourself based on the truth, but if you done the extra curricular stuff, then do it. Have you got any extracurricular stuff? Christina. Yeah, you know me, I would have a few pages if, you know. What I was going to ask is I have I'm not going to out this person, but the in in what happens when you have a hobby.

00:18:57:23 - 00:19:21:05
Unknown
Yeah. They can be is seen as a bonus. Yeah. Type of he says yeah. For example clay pigeon shooting or shooting. But if you go to other places, yeah they can in their own way. So how would you go about. Yeah. Nothing's quite those who you are. Yeah. At the same time you have to be mindful. Yeah.

00:19:21:05 - 00:19:38:07
Unknown
Maybe you'd leave that one out, but it is a clay pigeon. If you said you like to go on the hunt, then I would be a little bit more worried. So you especially. Yeah. Yeah, I'd say shoot in clay pigeons, but I know what you mean. It's like if you went to, like, said your, you know, you enjoy safari hunts.

00:19:38:07 - 00:20:02:13
Unknown
I don't know how I would feel about that. On one hand, I'm like, oh, kind of cool. They might, killing lovely animal. Yeah. So that is a very good point about raising unconscious biases. And I won't be too technical, but this is the other thing about pictures on CV's. Well, what Christine is talking about is an emotional response to an activity there, and it's probably more risky or not.

00:20:02:17 - 00:20:21:00
Unknown
And pictures are the worst. There's a reason why I got a nice camera now Ben over there. And this is at the event. We went to an event and I had a little camera and he got, no, it's not very good. And then the pictures that came out every time I let them out and not that good and all this stuff.

00:20:21:02 - 00:20:43:23
Unknown
And then once you get a better camera. Whoa. Everything looks better. Whoa. What? Hi. Is that what I'm trying to say is the pitch. The way you take a picture, the what you show with it, where you are, how you look. People judge everything. Photography is such a judgment on a thing, so leave it out, I think. Let the work speak for itself.

00:20:44:03 - 00:21:04:05
Unknown
Don't put a picture on there because people will just read into it. The only job I think you ever need a picture on there for maybe, is if you're working on a reception and maybe if you're in a temporary role and it's like, she seems nice, but other than that, on a roll, which is you and the desk on hello, you should be judged in your work, right?

00:21:04:11 - 00:21:24:18
Unknown
You have to remove unconscious biases. And I know we all want the world to be fair and wrap you up in cotton wool ball, but it ain't like that. And people do have prejudices. I don't think people are looking at that. But people have got biases. And then they go, oh, not sure. Oh it's weird. So leave it out.

00:21:24:20 - 00:21:44:04
Unknown
That's really the CV's. So I'm going to talk about both portfolios and then I'm going to talk about jobs. You want a quick CV talk a question about CVS. Yeah yeah go for it. What happens when you get a different career and you want to get into interiors. How would you tell how to go from a different career into interior?

00:21:44:05 - 00:22:05:03
Unknown
Is that what you did? What did you do before did you. Amazing. Very creative. There's a reason I would lean into it. So, you know, I give the Waitrose example. I would talk about all the stuff we done on film. Just be conscious that the person that's reading it doesn't know much about the film industry, but will know the glamor, this and that.

00:22:05:03 - 00:22:23:17
Unknown
So you have to just try and translate what you did, which is great to that. So if you had a degree in film, you put it down there. If you've done the film sets and all this stuff, you put it down there and you kind of like it. If you explain it to someone in interior design, it's never done.

00:22:23:19 - 00:22:54:07
Unknown
That is a really nice thing. So on one hand you kind of doing it again, but you should embrace that stuff you've got. So I would really lean into it hard. But with your title at the top. So I would say recent interior design graduate with extensive background in the film industry. So you're saying this is what I want and this is what I've got before, and that's kind of like what you should have for doing because you've kind of gone you study twice now, right?

00:22:54:09 - 00:23:15:15
Unknown
So you know, because then you guys might think, oh my gosh, I don't have that yet. But don't worry, you didn't have to do it twice, but you did it twice. So you should go great. Because it's like me with the business. So really I help people get jobs. But I lean on my background in architecture and working with interior designers to bring credibility to it.

00:23:15:17 - 00:23:34:19
Unknown
You might not listen as much if I didn't work in the industry, or if I didn't do recruitment. Not that you were all mean. You seem really nice, but it helps that I've done that because I've been there where you've got and with yourself. You've made a choice to go into it, and that's equally amazing. So it's really, really good.

00:23:34:21 - 00:23:58:05
Unknown
Any other quick questions on CVS we can talk about portfolios. Hello. So either in design or see me in the as friendly arts friendly. This is one that the I brought up and I and I ignored the question. It's a really good question. But everyone goes, oh my God property arts. What about the arts. So we use an application tracking system.

00:23:58:05 - 00:24:22:05
Unknown
That's what it means then. And then I'm going to pick on Ben in a nice way here because Ben works in recruitment than me. Does it matter if a CV is optimized for a bolt on system or whatever? To us? Which me sorry. Second to people need to worry when they design a CV to make it, recruit CRM and bolt on friendly.

00:24:22:07 - 00:24:43:15
Unknown
Never again. So think about it together. What exactly do we k? If a candidate's good, do we bother now? We don't care. So I don't. Ben's was basically. I don't know what you mean. I never thought about it. And I went it's basically fearmongering because I see people online go and you need to make it ready for an application tracking system.

00:24:43:15 - 00:25:02:13
Unknown
And that almost I hate it because he'd like to make it ready. You almost go into like a word document, which is there because that's the perfect version for the system to pick it up. But so you want people worried that the tracking system won't pick up the CV and therefore they won't get a job, which is kind of rubbish, isn't there?

00:25:02:15 - 00:25:26:24
Unknown
So one size. Yeah, I can't do my Trump impression, but if I were that, I'd be like fake news. Don't do that yet. Don't worry about the ATS like so. Yeah, don't worry about it's a really good question. Don't worry. Make that CV back. What I'd rather you do is you make this the beautiful InDesign legible. So that mean Christina or random person could read it really clearly.

00:25:27:01 - 00:26:02:17
Unknown
So this is a really good point. Contrast between. Yeah, important. One thing you were saying about clean. Yeah. Some of the layout, how do you feel about color backgrounds and things like that? Yeah, I in theory, I don't mind, where it goes wrong is, how much grading you do. So, like, for example, Ben and me do this with job ads where Ben's got grading in the back, and if it's there's not much gradient there and you kind of can't see the image, but then if it's too powerful, then you don't see the tax.

00:26:02:22 - 00:26:19:16
Unknown
So what I would say is because you might go it looks great on my phone, but what does the interviewer's problem look like? Are they printing them out? Because you still have our some old fogies like me that like to print some stuff out, and then maybe the printer in the office has got grayscale, and then the green and the black doesn't read.

00:26:19:16 - 00:26:42:02
Unknown
So I think you need to test it a little bit. Again, if in doubt, clean and minimal on the CV's. Quite nice and then on the portfolio let it work for themselves. So I quite sometimes like something in the background but it's risky. Does it work? Because really it's about can people read it. That's number one. Maybe we talk about quickly as the portfolio.

00:26:42:02 - 00:27:00:15
Unknown
So I said at the start, don't work in the maths, the project you done keep it down to 10 to 20 sheets. Probably start with your most recent project first guys the one you've got okay. And then you want to flaunt that. That's your baby and that's the one you worked really hard for. So you can get that out there.

00:27:00:17 - 00:27:30:07
Unknown
Now put your most recent work at the front. Now, what you really want in a sample portfolio is you want variety. You want to show different things. There's no point having five sheets of a plan. You know, it's one, two, three, four, five. I think the purpose of a sample portfolio is to grab people's attention on the project, to then invite you in, and then you can explain if the circulation works or anything.

00:27:30:09 - 00:27:51:01
Unknown
That's probably a bit architectural, but you know what I mean. It's like showing every facet, every mood board of the interior design project. No, you want to do one interior, a mood board, one 3D model, one this one that variety. You could they can show more detail when you're in the interview. The goal here is to grab people's attention.

00:27:51:01 - 00:28:13:18
Unknown
So variety, think of you repeating something. You probably don't need it there and you want to. It's better to get peop keep people keen and then invite you for an interview. Then you exhaust them all. Killer. No filler. That's the email you send online. What size should this be? Oh, there's so many things with it. But I want to talk about the digital portfolio.

00:28:13:21 - 00:28:39:00
Unknown
I'm don't use a website. I know websites are nice, but and you know, the very divisive points about this, but we don't know if people are going to click the website. So look at all your projects. So focus on the portfolio. And then if you are someone that enjoys web design and that could be an activity, you know, or if you when you hobbies.

00:28:39:02 - 00:29:01:01
Unknown
It was one of mine and it helped me because I built my websites businesses website, I would never do it again. I've but that's how you know some of that long line. That's correct. Never again. But that's a good one because in any websites think of it as an extra. So that that portfolio, I think you can take in a free portfolio to an interview.

00:29:01:01 - 00:29:21:08
Unknown
In the old days, they used to be an A01 when you were a graduate, and then, you know, you bring it down to like A2 and A1 and A2. I think now it's fine to take an A3 portfolio. You could go, whoa, I was going to take my iPad. So in a way, yeah, that's fine. But really design the document.

00:29:21:08 - 00:29:42:02
Unknown
Right. And then think about you're going to print out when you're going to interview something in A3. It doesn't need to be a massive portfolio. But I think A3 is a nice size. And then you just have the key things in an interview that and then you take a tablet if you want with more stuff on them. I jumped ahead to the interview and I will go on that.

00:29:42:05 - 00:30:10:05
Unknown
But on the portfolio key thing is not repeating yourself 10 to 15 sheets, 10 to 15MB. You make it clear, okay? And you don't need also what's important the portfolio. You annotate the process. That's the other thing. So it's not just the mood boards where you say, I like this. It's also a mood board that I did for XYZ that modeled in Photoshop.

00:30:10:07 - 00:30:36:15
Unknown
This is a 3D axonal metric that I've made using SketchUp. I bought into 3d, cv, Max. So I'm making this up. You wouldn't do that. But then and then you go and then I photoshop that at the end because you showed the process and you show what you've done. And don't worry if I'm throwing a lot at yeah, we go, oh gosh, that's why I get the notes and I'll send it all to you, but you will be fed up with my voice at the end.

00:30:36:15 - 00:30:59:14
Unknown
You'll be like, what's that? Welshman said. But really it's about instilling this down label in there, annotating and explaining the process I touched upon in the interview. In the interview, you have more, you print out the portfolio. And if I would, I know it's tempting to go to digital, but you don't need to spend hundreds of pounds on there.

00:30:59:16 - 00:31:18:15
Unknown
You just do an A3 print. You go to like hobbies, Reaper graphics or whatever. Just get a nice clear ring bound thing that is fine. If you want to spend a 100 pound, 20 pound and go into the model shop and get a portfolio, great. I didn't. It was fine, but I think that's okay with a tablet in 2026.

00:31:18:17 - 00:31:40:13
Unknown
Why do I like in an interview? Analog and digital. I'll tell you why I prefer digital in an interview, but do I know the interviewer? Well, they might be in the room where you get glare. You might your laptop, your tablet might break down on the way. All this stuff. Oh my gosh. And don't even think about taking a USB right now.

00:31:40:13 - 00:32:02:17
Unknown
I've seen so many people because also in between. So I did industry to recruitment and then I went for two years. I went back into architecture as the in-house recruiter, and the amount of people I saw freaking out trying to get a USB to load at the start. The interview was crazy and they were nice people, but they go, oh sorry, it works at my one at home and I can't get it working.

00:32:02:17 - 00:32:26:11
Unknown
And then the thing is, it doesn't matter. But it then it put the person interviewing off, you know, they're panicking and no one really mind. But then suddenly, then they're not starting in the best way they can. And USBs and people's computers, you have no control on, you know, and then they kind of wait in there, they waiting for you to load it up and you're like, oh my gosh, get me out of here.

00:32:26:12 - 00:32:45:23
Unknown
You know, you're like, oh, so just don't do it. So take things in your control. And what you can control is a print. And what you can control also is your tablet. But they do f up now and then at the worst bloody moment, if you printed something out and you don't have something on your tablet and someone asks you for something and you have it to say, I'll be really transparent.

00:32:45:23 - 00:33:05:00
Unknown
I didn't bring it today. But what I will do when I thank you for the interview, I will follow up with them. That's all you need to do interviews. I will talk about interviews. But how do you get to an interview? Oh my gosh, this is a bit. So whenever I do coaching we will do questions a bit.

00:33:05:00 - 00:33:27:21
Unknown
But when people pay me for a session, they pay you the money. They always come to me and they go and see I do work as well, but they come to me and they go, I need to fix my CV and portfolio. And in the coaching session, 95% of them, it's not about the CV and portfolio, it's actually about the search.

00:33:27:23 - 00:33:51:18
Unknown
And if you remember one thing today, I want it to be this. Most people go, I've been looking for a job all week. I can't find one. They go, okay, now you go. Remember, you're at the start of your career. You haven't met many people yet. You're going to make these valuable connections. You will all come, but chances are you probably don't know many architects or interior designers.

00:33:51:19 - 00:34:18:05
Unknown
And if you do, they're probably the first people you ask. But chances are you don't know them. Why would you? I didn't, unfortunately, although there's one famous architect called John Drew. He wasn't my relative, so I knew no one, so I had to go out. That's why I'm saying this is the search. If you if you haven't got a network, you have to cast in that wide.

00:34:18:07 - 00:34:42:20
Unknown
You have to be practical. And you have to remember that you can send a lot of applications, and it's all in the process to get one, one job interview accepted. That's the game. So the the advantage if you don't know anyone is that it doesn't matter who you contact, because who cares. They either ignore you or they say, no, you're not for me.

00:34:42:22 - 00:35:08:24
Unknown
But the more people you speak to, the better you cast you. Now wait. Now, I made a post this week which got everyone talking about covering letters. Should you include a cover letter? Not. I don't think you should write. But I love a cover letter. Yeah, I know you love a cover letter written to you, but they take half an hour to write, and then you.

00:35:08:24 - 00:35:34:23
Unknown
I could be doing one covering that one cover, that one cover. Then you go, oh, my gosh, I've been looking for a job all day. I go, great. How many series you send? You go, oh, really busy. I go, yeah, come on you go, For this and for oh my God, meant for spooky numbers. I had a friend that helped me on this because I sent 1 or 2 CVS in a day and my friend was like two CVS.

00:35:35:00 - 00:35:58:17
Unknown
I sent 100 today, and this was when I was part one and I went 100. I went and then I went, oh, he must be spamming them out. Terrible. Oh, that's not very cool. But what? That was me being defensive. And actually it taught me a valuable lesson because I was like, well, I can I have a bitch and moan that my four are the best thing since sliced bread?

00:35:58:19 - 00:36:20:09
Unknown
Or I can learn from him because he had 3 or 4 interviews and I had zero. So I went, you know, sort this, I'm just going to sit down and I'm going to send my CV out. And that's what I did. But I didn't spam everyone with Dr. Sarah. Madam. I customize it just enough in the email, but without spending hemorrhaging time in that covering letter.

00:36:20:14 - 00:36:41:04
Unknown
And guess what? If they wrote back to me and said, I want a cover letter thing. Great, you do one. Fine, you've requested it, but it is much better to spend time on the CV, the portfolio and customizing the email that you send. So for example, so you go to do is have a rule that you change the first line in the email.

00:36:41:06 - 00:36:58:13
Unknown
So you look on the company's website. So if it was my architecture practice and my name is Stephen Drew, you go have a look at Stephen Drew Studios. You go, all right okay okay. And that's the other thing. Even you go, I'm not sure. Send it out to Stephen Drew. Interior design. Because worst case, you're going to get an interview.

00:36:58:15 - 00:37:16:08
Unknown
Not sorry. Worst case, you get notes, best case you get an interview. You know, I I'm not really sure them. And then you go meet them and they're great. So it's always worth sending anyways. But you would go on the website and then you look and then you go, if it's a career page, you apply. If not, you still apply.

00:37:16:10 - 00:37:37:04
Unknown
You send it to the email you can find. If you can find my email, great. If you can't, send it to the info at Steve Drew Studios, but you make sure you address it to the Stephen and the team. Why? That feels more personal. What's the point in a cover that a personal message? What's annoying about cover letters?

00:37:37:04 - 00:37:59:19
Unknown
They take ages, so just customize that. I guarantee you if you do them you can send out probably when you get fast one application every five minutes. But in the first, because I'm scaring everyone, I'm scaring everyone. Look at it this way. Even if it took you 20 minutes to go in a company, quickly change a thing to that is 20 minutes.

00:37:59:19 - 00:38:22:08
Unknown
You can do free in an hour, and if you sit down seven hours in the day, because that's what you're getting into when you come work for someone, I'm going to pay you for the time, seven times free, 21 and 21. That's right. That's 21. That's better than the person that's done for in a day, right? You do that five times in the week.

00:38:22:10 - 00:38:46:05
Unknown
We've got 100 applications. So we've gone from me panicking, doing 1 or 2 a day, 5 to 10 a week. Oh I'm so busy to a hundreds. And then when you get more confident you go quicker. The other thing is where do you find these interior design jobs? You could be looking on, but you tell me before I say, where do you find a job online right now?

00:38:46:05 - 00:39:17:15
Unknown
Does anyone tried looking for you guys who have been looking? Where do you find one? Any good job? Boards and then LinkedIn? Indeed indeed. Is there any design job boards, interior design ones? Or the company company website? That's the one. We're like quite good. Most people say design. They go, I go and design, but whatever. But it's the more popular the job boards, the easier it is to find a job.

00:39:17:20 - 00:39:40:14
Unknown
So you can put a graduate interior design search on, LinkedIn and indeed, great. But once that job is gone live, it's gone live as well. You would be amazed at how many jobs are not advertised. I think it's anecdotally like 70 to 80%. They're not there. So when I worked in an architecture practice, they go, Steve, I need you to get me for five graduates next month.

00:39:40:14 - 00:40:05:16
Unknown
And I go, right. And where do you think the first place I looked is before advertising there and think, I guess imagine me in-house recruiter. Oh she works. Yeah. It looks. Oh, you going to look in the inbox? And if I go, oh this lovely lady is applied last week. She looks good. I go, Jeff, what you think.

00:40:05:16 - 00:40:29:22
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. But you're in boom. You've skipped the cable. You've just made you turn the obstacle again. You've you've gone in for another because people will go, oh, I can pay the job board friend of mine. But let's see what Julie's like first. She looks pretty good. Why? People wouldn't want to do it. It's slow work. So if you send something, you create the opportunity for yourself.

00:40:29:24 - 00:40:48:16
Unknown
It's like fishing. Might take a few days, but then you hear back. Might take a week, might take a month. That's how you get a job. It's all about numbers. What you find studios search Google interior design studios. Also you because you guys are trendy and I need to pick your brain on this. Christina. What's the magazine for?

00:40:48:16 - 00:41:12:23
Unknown
Interior design. Holman's home and garden. Yeah, but I don't want to. I don't think that would be having maybe the the bid seat. You don't think you have the same notes? Yeah. The other women page bid and she's picking up the you few weeks later. Yeah. Wow. Let's ask them about that. Like where's the list? So the Riba has a list of companies from A to Z.

00:41:13:00 - 00:41:33:12
Unknown
And you can still do that because top tip there are interior design studios in architecture practices. So we recruit with chapel Robson Bentley be a no I they said that but I reveal they have an interior design team. So EPR is where I went back in the house. And they have a hotels team that does interior design.

00:41:33:14 - 00:41:59:15
Unknown
A lot of the wholesale architectural studios have been recruiting for a few years. I was going to ask is, yeah, so if I apply for your company B-School? Yes. And I do not here. Yeah. Apply to your company ever again or next month or how how can I. So very good question times for the same company. Absolutely. They just have to think about how we do it.

00:41:59:17 - 00:42:24:01
Unknown
This if you reply with the same thing the week after fire. Right. Hey, what I would do is I would generally I would send the email and I would touch base base in a week or two. How can you keep order? This could have a quick Excel sheet and go Steve Drew Studios applied. In this day you haven't got anything back and then you can do an update.

00:42:24:03 - 00:42:43:04
Unknown
Also if you change the CV and portfolio, that's a really nice sneaky way to do an update and go, hey, just let you know I've updated my CV and portfolio to reflect a few new things that I've got here. It is that it's a sneaky re nudge. You know, if you got them, you got them Duolingo and all this stuff.

00:42:43:04 - 00:43:00:24
Unknown
You know, Streep's like, you know, touching each other. You need to kind of give people the moment to breathe, but you need to just kind of let them know. So absolutely I would do look back. But you also got to give people a minute if you just send the CV and then you ring it straight after, you could ring to say, hey, just checking if you got it.

00:43:01:01 - 00:43:19:16
Unknown
But I would save that call for a week later and then go, hey, I sent my CV last Monday, can I just check you got him? Oh great. I love what you do. I know you're busy, but, you know, if you need anything, let me know. Now, that's easy for me to say, but when I was doing ask for, like, oh, I send, you know, and you're going to be nervous and it's fine.

00:43:19:16 - 00:43:35:00
Unknown
But most remember you're doing them a favor. What gets annoying is if you rang every ten minutes going, hey, have you looked at my CV yet? They're like, oh my God, this guy got to give me a minute. But you know, it's good to touch base if you have a quick Excel sheet. I think that will really, really help.

00:43:35:01 - 00:43:44:13
Unknown
Yes. Hey, would you recommend coding in this last try before somebody saying no? Yeah.

00:43:44:15 - 00:44:00:12
Unknown
I think it's good for them to see something and for you, the call to point it to the document. But I quite like, if someone's got a bit of initiative and they go, hey, I was thinking of applying, but I've just seen people go like, for instance, someone's gone to me like, hey, I'm thinking of looking.

00:44:00:12 - 00:44:18:24
Unknown
And I've gone, I'm not really looking right now. Thank you very much. And but you can send you stuff through and then they do and then I'm like, oh, okay. But other times, like you could be shut down. Go now in not looking or the reception this goes, yeah, we're not looking. But then if you send in this amazing portfolio to a director and they go, wow, what really lucky.

00:44:19:01 - 00:44:39:14
Unknown
But she's really good. So I think it's okay. But I would I would be tempted to send it in and then call a week after. But you can experiment. That's the thing. The other thing people go like what advice is Steve do? And this is just my version, and the real version that is the correct way is the way that gets you the job, you know?

00:44:39:16 - 00:45:01:12
Unknown
So you could go, Steve, you said all this crap. And then I sent one application and I got the job. And, you know, I go, good for you. But that didn't happen to me. It went through the nine. I have to send 400 applications because it was a global economic crisis. But when I sent 400 applications, I got five in that video, and that was doing a bad time.

00:45:01:12 - 00:45:18:01
Unknown
Christine, aside with me, it was like the one before the pandemic. It was like, oh my God, there's no jobs. Because it was a global economic crash. There was enough. Everyone was like, there's no jobs, but there was. You just have to go. More volume now is actually a good time. Oh, I think it's fine. I think it's have changed.

00:45:18:03 - 00:45:40:19
Unknown
Yeah, it's much better. It's fine there. But opportunities won't come to you. You've got to go to them and you have to send more volume. And if you guys can I. How's the search been for the graduates as you've been all right, a difficult one. Yeah. It's difficult on the on the scale of 0 to 10. How difficult is.

00:45:40:21 - 00:46:08:20
Unknown
Hard. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And some of the companies just go down, they go see them. It's like dating isn't there. Nah, nah. But, do you, for example, think so? For example, the last time I applied for a job, am I literally moved from West London. I moved into my company, media, and I was so fed up of commuting.

00:46:09:00 - 00:46:28:24
Unknown
Yeah, I drew a circle of half an hour walk around my house, and I applied to all the studios around there where we can confirm our circle around my house. There's no that's him. That's the level. No more famous? No. You are fabulous. I will let you do that. I thought I thought, okay, if I get to work, imagine I'm in the studio.

00:46:28:24 - 00:46:45:21
Unknown
Be given up. Not yet. At least. I know that in half an hour that would be at home. And I can make a quick dinner and just go to sleep. Yeah, I will so say that will be nice. So that was how I did it, but it meant that I had to focus. And I literally, as you say, apply to anybody is to be a that was we can help promote.

00:46:45:23 - 00:47:04:14
Unknown
Yeah. Cool. Google. Yeah. Great. I think what work to my advantage is what you were saying that what if you see the address and you got the company, you can see how close you are and everything suddenly is kind of like you will start building that kind of relationship because, yeah, you they can see how far you are and everything.

00:47:04:16 - 00:47:25:07
Unknown
Yeah. Imagine that. There are many. It is for this purpose, whatever way works and that's what you want. And at that point in time and you use the map and I like using the map because if it's hard for you to find the company, it's probably hard to for other people to find the company. And most people give up when things get hard.

00:47:25:07 - 00:47:47:04
Unknown
Or the other thing that we do as human beings is we go, there's no job posted. They probably now look and I won't bother them. And Ben's give me say this a few times, but it's because when we grow up, what does our parent say about interrupting people? Is it nice or is it rude? Was a rude.

00:47:47:06 - 00:48:07:14
Unknown
It's rude, isn't? There you go. I don't want to bother them. They're professionals. They're interior designers. I'm just a graduate who I can't message them. And we got nothing better than putting off. And so we wait for jobs to go online because that's permission from God. So. Right. My parents, they put a job up, but then everyone does it then.

00:48:07:19 - 00:48:26:05
Unknown
So you have to be a bit rude. It's not rude, but when you feel like it's rude, a little bit rude, it's okay. Does that make sense? You have to. You have to get over the uncomfortable nerves of interrupting people and go like, hey, here's my application. You're going to be polite doing it, but you're going to think, oh, I don't know.

00:48:26:05 - 00:48:46:21
Unknown
I've got the director's email here. Should I message them or should I send it to the to the hello inbox? You go, oh, I've seen it's all over his box. I can't bother him. No bother the director, because he's the decision maker and you might save him a lot of time and effort. Recruitment. He goes, oh, I was busy, but your application is amazing.

00:48:47:00 - 00:49:10:17
Unknown
So it's okay to be a little bit rude when I say that. I mean not not showing up going, hey, give me a job. But you go. I mean, it's like interrupting people feels rude and we have to be comfortable doing them. It's the main thing that holds us back is the main thing that we're sometimes like, we're compliant, we're the weight and God, maybe this afternoon I get a new job on the same on apply.

00:49:10:17 - 00:49:30:18
Unknown
And we I've been there and it doesn't it doesn't really help. So I found a lot of information that you. So let's do a quick summary and then we can do a massive Q&A. We can pick my brains or anything. So I talked at the start about CVS keeping a clean, clear and concise 1 to 2 pages. Then I set about getting that portfolio 10 to 15 sheets.

00:49:30:20 - 00:49:52:11
Unknown
All killer, no filler. Clean graphic design explaining the process and variety. Keep me on my toes, man. I got to make sure I don't swipe you. To which way is saying because I don't, I'm dating anyone. Which way is the rejection? Way left or right on Tinder, you know you're all working on the course. That's great. Anyways, one way is reject and one ways.

00:49:52:11 - 00:50:17:20
Unknown
All right. So we've got to keep people's variety up. Right. Then you've got that. You're going to put it in an email and you're going to say your name. Interior design graduate available immediately. I forgot you're international students. Great. Where do we can talk about the visas. Oh do I not talk about it? I don't want to and I don't want them to think are they kind of worry about the one too, right.

00:50:17:20 - 00:50:42:12
Unknown
Everyone freaks out about this because they go, do I put it down and then I can get removed, or do I not mention them and then go and then you in the interview and it's an hour long and you get to the end and you go away, I've got a visa and then you go and then at that point they go, oh yeah.

00:50:42:14 - 00:51:03:18
Unknown
And then they, you know, that's what we think in our head. We go again rejection. And no, it's fine. But we got to there's a scheme in the UK is in that graduate visa. What happens guys with graduate visa you get two years right right to now what do we know 11 or 11 one and a half. What is wrong with this country.

00:51:03:18 - 00:51:24:09
Unknown
Right. But when you when you graduate. Yeah a lot I think I'm going off to Brazil with my partner. I told you, right. Where were we stuck. Yeah, I think it's two for right now. Okay. But you got two years and the the employer doesn't need to do anything for two years. So that's why I was also in your CV.

00:51:24:09 - 00:51:49:02
Unknown
Is it is good to say that you have a graduate visa and say graduate visa two years. That and it expires in two years time. Whatever, right. You have to remind the employer that if they graduate visa, they don't have to do pay for sponsorship. They don't have to pay for any of this stuff. They basically hire you and forget about the problem for two years.

00:51:49:04 - 00:52:12:04
Unknown
That is the key thing. So you say graduate visa, two years, sponsorship, nothing needed. Why you brought up the objection. You brought up the thorny issue and you said you don't have to worry about it for two years. I might not even be here then or by then. You know, I built the trust. They love you. And they go, oh, we can't let go of John.

00:52:12:04 - 00:52:31:09
Unknown
We're gonna have to sponsor him. But then, because they were emotionally invested in you, then they more likely to do it was the idea of paying 8,000 pounds to a stranger. Not very exciting. Was the idea about paying 8,000 pounds to someone? That's been would be two years. And you can't lose because they're so good in the business, something that you deal with.

00:52:31:11 - 00:52:50:01
Unknown
Okay, so it's like me, I'm five people. I don't know how to sponsor people. If someone says, I've got sponsorship and they require, you know, proper one, that's something for a bigger company. But with the graduate visa, you don't need a. I think if you've used the graduated visa before, you have to apply for other sponsorship. I'm not going to lie, that is harder.

00:52:50:03 - 00:53:13:23
Unknown
It's not impossible, but typically when it goes past a two year graduate visa, always remember the bigger companies, especially more international companies are quite used to them and them. It's no problem. But with a big company with a smaller, they just won't understand. It's like if you ask me to do it, I just go, I don't know, I can't deal with this, this bit more problematic for them.

00:53:13:23 - 00:53:35:16
Unknown
But if you're on the graduate visa, you don't need to worry. But bring up the objection at the start, put it in the CV. And what when I saying in the email you could say I am on a graduate visa, but I need no sponsorship for two years. Great. You put it in there. It's not an issue. That's the one thing that most international students freak out about.

00:53:35:18 - 00:53:55:17
Unknown
But you should be proud of what you've done. You work really hard, you offer a lot of skillset, and a graduate visa is easy for two years, so don't worry about it. Don't in your head go, oh, I'm a graduate international student. I'm not sure the you know, the rude thing. Now, you were on an international. You've made the effort to come here, learn you've got your grades.

00:53:55:17 - 00:54:23:16
Unknown
It's amazing. And you don't need sponsorship for two years. So you're international students are very, very, very employable. But human beings panic. I don't know what I'm doing. But you're going to say no, no, no, no, don't need to panic. In two years, I'm all yours. We worry about that tomorrow. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's good. And that's how human beings are.

00:54:23:16 - 00:54:43:08
Unknown
And then that's how I would be. I go, don't you worry about it layer. Does that make sense? Hopefully I debunk that because most people panic and freak out. And then it gets brought up like a confession at the end of the day when the interviews being fabulous. And then they go, gosh, that's it. So should we do a Q&A?

00:54:43:10 - 00:55:08:21
Unknown
It can be no questions. It can be any questions is no stupid questions. Are we okay for time though guys? Yeah, yeah. Does anyone got any random questions? Nothing silly, I promise. Anything at all. Oh, sorry. Hello? I have a question. Yes. In the UK, if you want to apply, like, interior session or, junior interior designer.

00:55:08:24 - 00:55:40:06
Unknown
Yeah. What do employers, usually value most is, like planning skills or, rendering skills. Who are the technical skills? Well, it's going to be the copper answer is a bit of everything. However, I think the more when you're a graduate, it's when they want to see that you're capable to design. But it does really help if you have the raw software skill.

00:55:40:07 - 00:56:00:12
Unknown
That's kind of the trade off. You know, like, Christina mentioned a bit like the I there could be an old person in the studio. I say old, or myself, but I'm like, I'm at the cusp where, like, in the next few years, I really won't be bothered to use it. But if I go with you, you know that I thing, and you go, yeah, yeah, I know what I know, I know this, I know that they go, right, you're in.

00:56:00:14 - 00:56:23:17
Unknown
So you, you leverage your skill set. But of course it helps if you can design this. People want both they, they want they want you to do the software, but they also want you to be able to be smart. I think that's the general gist. And he. Does that help? Yeah. But how do you put the priorities of the skills?

00:56:23:18 - 00:56:46:06
Unknown
You are the true phase one company might have more of a preciousness on design. There's no one answer. It's like, I say that as in, don't worry too much about it. Showcase your software skills. And then when you're in the interview, you can win them over to you. You're right. It's an intelligent question, but it's like, how long is a piece of string?

00:56:46:08 - 00:57:07:24
Unknown
This is just my theory on how to get a job. It's like if you do one page more than I said in a portfolio, one page last probably doesn't matter. But everyone goes, Steve, home page is not like, and I wake up some days and I go, 1215 whatever point it is, whatever works. But I think having the software is a really unfair advantage.

00:57:08:01 - 00:57:24:12
Unknown
I remember I went for an interview 12 years ago and they were like, oh, you know, micro station. Oh, that's really good. You know, this like, you know, 3DS Max as well. Yeah. Jeff's just about the side. I do, you know, a bit of that. And I was like, yeah, I don't on my project on anyone very interested that's employable.

00:57:24:14 - 00:57:49:08
Unknown
So I can't assign one way or the other. But software, software is like the, the bit in between the gap of the experience from them. How to describe in the portfolio which programs are confused I think is really good because as you are telling the story in the portfolio, they can see which programs you have use, almost like you are presenting to them your skills.

00:57:49:08 - 00:58:08:09
Unknown
And I think that's that's a really good tip. And because it will give them the possibility of actually not only leaving it, but visually seeing the fruits of your work. And I think that's the, that would be a really good way of presenting it so that somebody can actually appreciate it. I think so, yeah. It's good though.

00:58:08:11 - 00:58:35:10
Unknown
Yeah. Sorry. You the question. Yeah. So everyone's heard about the resurgence of jobs when we graduate late September. Yeah. I kind of do it so that we have a job lined up. Lined up by the time you graduate high school. Yeah. Good. Because I know, like, do I start applying now kind of thing? Yeah. Because you don't want to, like, waste too much time.

00:58:35:10 - 00:58:55:22
Unknown
Maybe it's better to condense it into one month before or maybe, like start. Yeah, really good question. I'd say. Really? You want to have the the way I would do it is the moment you graduate I would apply like oh you get your end the year show. And so for these guys it's like people say, oh it'd be more jobs mid-year now apply.

00:58:55:22 - 00:59:14:12
Unknown
Now there are jobs that just and so but with yourself that's a really good point because if you're too early it's almost annoying the employer. Like say, now you impress me and you're like, I'm looking for a job in five months. Oh, man, that's a bloody eternity, man. Like I'm like, I don't know if I'll have a business an hour because.

00:59:14:12 - 00:59:37:05
Unknown
So I think, like if you're a graduate, you kind of need to be ready to go. So I would be sending out CVS a month before you can start and, and you finance the graduate. People look like you start next Tuesday and you know, but it helps if you can be immediate because it's really valid, you know, behind the scenes and recruitment.

00:59:37:10 - 00:59:53:22
Unknown
Sometimes they go, oh, it's a really good part too. It's in the month. And I go, I never really good part to the start next week. Which one do you think they go with? Sometimes the one that can start next week? I think a month is fine because you got to send your application, then you're going to go for interviews and then so that's fine.

00:59:53:24 - 01:00:19:15
Unknown
But two free months when you're graduate is too long. When you're like a senior associate in the future, you have a longer notice period. But right now it's fine. That makes sense. Really. Good question though, because I want and you want to be the head of it. But then you're like, oh, one month ish, but then you could start the portfolio a bit before CV portfolio if you want.

01:00:19:17 - 01:00:45:00
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. Once you're out the door, you've got to think like, I've got to be able to start this job when I'm month for less time. Then you have a questions before around. Cool. Any other. Hello. So, in July 2005, last year. Yeah. The government has removed interior design a job from the sponsorship list. So do you think that's going to affect us?

01:00:45:00 - 01:01:06:22
Unknown
And if it does, how can we become better? Okay. But I think that's for not graduate. No. Who needs two roles two years we are set. Yeah. And and after that I mean it's not ideal I can't lie to you I can't you know, I think being Christine there, I've had chats about this and I think that the salaries that they're putting on them are wrong.

01:01:06:23 - 01:01:25:20
Unknown
They've done the same in architecture. We can't control that. Like there's a little bit of something called stoicism, which I believe in because I used to get really stressed and anxious about these things. Of course, our campaign online and we speak, but you can't control that. But what you can control is the quality of work experience you get for those two years.

01:01:25:22 - 01:01:42:20
Unknown
And the more hard you work and you all come across, great. Yeah, the chances are you can probably go over them. So think of it. Think of it differently. Think of it like I can't control that, but I can work as hard as I can. On getting a job and working amazing for two years, which would increase the chance of the salary.

01:01:43:01 - 01:02:05:05
Unknown
And probably you would be okay, because then people are gonna, we're gonna hit this thing. But if you think of it like that and you focus on just getting the best work experience in the industry, that is something you can control. Does that make sense? So I hate that they've done that. But I think we have to exploit the graduate visa, especially if it's two years and one and a half at another reason like so.

01:02:05:07 - 01:02:22:20
Unknown
But again, like if me if we get we can get upset about that. But like it doesn't help you now. So let's just focus on you now getting the two years and then you worry about that later. But I'm sorry. It's annoying isn't there? Like, is there any other reason this can trigger I like soon we're not going to be able to have people.

01:02:22:20 - 01:02:37:21
Unknown
It'll all change. Okay. So what will happen is first thing is that it will be like this. Then there'll be no one who can do the job. And then they'll change, but there'll be a allowed. And then it means that, like me and Christina can't find good people.

01:02:37:23 - 01:03:00:02
Unknown
I work in recruitment. It might be good for me by an ethically. I don't like it because you need to find someone and pay, which is really disappoint. And. Oh, that's such fun that recruiters in the future they will love you. Blow smoke up you. You know what? But right now it can't make any money off you. So, what that means is recruiters will be nice and then.

01:03:00:08 - 01:03:19:05
Unknown
But they won't really have graduate jobs because in recruitment I get paid when I sign someone and no company is asking me to find the graduate. They're asking me to find you in the future, ten, 15 years with your directors of hotels. And I got to be like, hey, you remember we met at Kingston and you're like, oh no, you.

01:03:19:07 - 01:03:35:16
Unknown
But right now, the reason I do all this stuff is because I've been there, and I want to give you the advice and help you and I enjoy it. But you, that's why you have to be your own recruiter now. And recruiters, they won't say this because they worry like, oh, I don't want to say that's how it works.

01:03:35:18 - 01:03:57:02
Unknown
But then I think that's worse because then you ringing up a recruiter, they say nothing now and they kind of lead you along. So just think that recruiters cannot help you for many years very rarely I've heard that there's one once or twice, basically maybe a big company that's making loads of money and they're lazy, will ask me to look for a graduate role.

01:03:57:02 - 01:04:24:13
Unknown
But then how many times have we had a graduate roll call? But never remember. Ben's never done that. I've done it once in ten years, but when I was in house, I would do it all the time. And they were like that. I mean, if I couldn't find a graduate when I worked there in houses they recruit, I was out on my own because it was easier, because, I mean, it's a nice way I would find really good people like yourself, and I would kind of exploit it.

01:04:24:14 - 01:04:44:23
Unknown
Usually it's like, oh, I'll find the, you know, who made a good impression so much. Year seven from background graduate. You know, you kind of have these things to like don't waste your time on the recruiter. Yeah, but if you want free advice and come and join me in the lunchtimes on Friday and then I can go and look at your portfolio.

01:04:45:00 - 01:05:21:14
Unknown
So I'm happy to do that. I'm happy to go through your work as bottle them. Any other questions? Oh two more. Yeah. Come on. You got to milk me for all you got when I, when I apply in UK. Yes. Sorry. If, it's better when you apply, like quarterly or to, target, areas you feel you know which ones better target by location or by role.

01:05:21:16 - 01:05:48:03
Unknown
Target. Target. Target like, with your strong application. Okay. For the target role, I kind of get it. I would say the opposite. And just think that every company could hire an interior graduate, which could be you guys. So I would just look on the company and location. So get out of your head. Like all interior, senior interiors.

01:05:48:03 - 01:06:10:10
Unknown
I forget all that. Just apply for the company. So I would target the company, and you would be doing what's called a speculative application. You would just be sending them your information, even if there's no role. Then. And then I would look at location. And most companies are in London. There's some in the UK everywhere. But what do you think the ratio is of company?

01:06:10:12 - 01:06:32:13
Unknown
That's how you well, you have a guess. We'll make it interactive with him. He'll be. I'll put him on the spot for fun. How many percentage of architectural practices do you think are in London versus the rest of the UK? So I know there's been talk about like the roles that we actually welcome. Now just the number of studios ratio.

01:06:32:15 - 01:07:05:13
Unknown
What one in London. No no no. So like I'll say one like in the rest. Yeah. Yeah I mean the majority very well. Yeah I think it's like 80 to 85% of design studios are in London. Why? Because they do most of Europe as well. London is very bougie. Whereas what you have outside of London is you have more regional offices and I think than it's London with Sheffield and Liverpool, but it's less still a chance, like you got 1 or 2 in Edinburgh and stuff, but there's so much in London it's like insane.

01:07:05:19 - 01:07:28:01
Unknown
So you are in one of the best and the other good things is like it is one of the best places to work in the UK. I know it's bloody expensive, but there are some great, studios around. Also the variety of studios, interior design companies, hard core ones, and you have multidisciplinary companies, which is like they do architectural engineering, interiors.

01:07:28:07 - 01:07:49:08
Unknown
Then you have architecture practices which do interiors, then you have interior design consultants, and you have those all different shapes and sizes. You have, like interior design studios, which are small and eclectic and do like Chapel in Chelsea. And they got all the witch houses or you like. One of the companies I work with is they want like an interior designer to do airport lounges.

01:07:49:10 - 01:08:13:20
Unknown
So you've got loads of variety and they're all in London, which is great, if that makes sense. So I'm feeling quiet if you hammer London, oh my God, you will get something. Any other questions? Hello. What films do you work on? Nothing. They say short films. Okay, cool. So networking events? Yes, I've been to a few, and I always was super weird.

01:08:14:00 - 01:08:36:23
Unknown
I know it's horrible. I like the people who actually hire you. They ask you, they don't want you to say I'm studying in their face. Like, oh, no, how you. Yeah. Yeah. Really good question. Well, I think it's an amazing skill you're doing. I mean, I mean, the truth is that it might seem easy me doing these now, but like five years ago, I remember the first talk I ever gave.

01:08:36:23 - 01:08:53:14
Unknown
It was two people in the audience. And then I was I was like, I need an emergency, be here before doing it because I am bricking myself. And like, networking feels like that. It actually feels like, I don't know, it's just Christine's really good. She goes through a lot of events as well. Sometimes we bump into each other, but they can be.

01:08:53:19 - 01:09:11:13
Unknown
They almost feel initially a bit cringing. Right. But that's because in our head we kind of think of, okay, let me do a quick one. Right? So when we go to a networking event, businessy putting cards down, there's a certain connotation we have that it's like you get your business card or, you know, you think of salespeople.

01:09:11:15 - 01:09:31:11
Unknown
It's like we're engineered like we think sales money, ooh, vulgar wankers, this kind of thing. Like. So I think you can feel a little bit like, oh my gosh, sorry. I'm not supposed to swear on my I, I apologize to Kingston Uni University and this residents, but, you know, you think sales. Oh they want something for it. And like with networking it can feel like that.

01:09:31:16 - 01:09:49:20
Unknown
But it's such a great skill when you do in pitches, it's the same thing. You got to think that you do creates and actually you do. It's really hard of time. So actually go to those, but try and enjoy yourself and like it's all in your hands I remember so there's like a members club that I got invited into and I was like, I can't go there.

01:09:49:22 - 01:10:10:14
Unknown
I'm like, you know, I'm the opposite of a fancy elite. They all have oh, interior designers, you know, with the. And I was like, I'm from South Wales, councilor stay. I'm not going to fit in. And then when I go in the room, I realized they were all rich, can't swear in their own heads, and they didn't care about me.

01:10:10:16 - 01:10:26:16
Unknown
And I went, oh, so this is what you guys do? No one cares. No one. No one actually cared. Like, I mean, this is a nice way. No one cares. You don't care about me. That's okay. You care about yourself. And the value I can add, right? But that will come over time. So for right now, you're thinking, well, I don't really know people.

01:10:26:16 - 01:10:43:02
Unknown
I'm graduate. Maybe I can offer a bit less value now, although your backstory of films really interested, but your practice in the art of going to these things and in the future you'll have more value. But it doesn't matter. So I answer the roundabout way, but what I'm trying to say is it's great you're going to these networking events.

01:10:43:07 - 01:11:05:08
Unknown
Don't panic about them, but don't let them be the substance. I'd rather you spend your 9 to 5 focus on getting CV's out, but then you did the extra networking because that'll pay you dividends often later in life. Then do the talk. Five years ago I wouldn't have had the confidence enough to do this. And you know, that's just kind of how it goes with life.

01:11:05:08 - 01:11:24:05
Unknown
So I went out on a preamble. I went on around the houses. But did it make sense in the madness? So stick to the search. But that's amazing. And you felt like an idiot, but you weren't. And we all feel like we had imposters when we're there. And also no one cares is what I'm trying to say. I also am, and I speak from experience.

01:11:24:05 - 01:11:57:15
Unknown
When you're in spotlight like this, everybody feels, you know, completely out of yourself. Everybody. And I agree with what you said. Sometimes you go to a place and you think you are the odd one out. Then you look around and you start noticing that every corner has one person that is feeling exactly the same as you and is, you know, if you try to put them in a way where they do discovered an important, maybe you find yourself intimidating, but maybe you can work with that people.

01:11:57:17 - 01:12:16:10
Unknown
And so I feel like I get home and go somewhere else and sometimes as well. I found out they don't go to these places on your own, but a classroom, a lot of the work that we do through volunteering, we both are part of similar networks. I try to focus on that, kind of breaking the barriers.

01:12:16:10 - 01:12:42:20
Unknown
I'm actually making people feel more comfortable. I posted on the teams a couple of events that are happening now. One is the surface design and the other one is work transport, workplace design. Yeah, those shows will have lectures. So you can go there and there will be people in businesses, there will be suppliers, there will be people speaking, giving talks.

01:12:42:20 - 01:13:05:21
Unknown
After the talk, you can go and introduce yourself to the people so it doesn't have to be. No, you know, like estate, typical networking corporate. You don't have to go to corporate. That's true. And so Christine is involved in a really great one called EC, which is National Association of Women in Construction. And like maybe there's a job there, maybe there's not.

01:13:05:23 - 01:13:24:23
Unknown
But I think if you're in on your search and you're pushing yourself, it's a very nice and supportive environment. Can we guarantee you it's going to get you in your job search forever? No. But does it have to speak to people? Yes. And if you make a good impression, you can. You can meet you can meet people years later.

01:13:25:00 - 01:13:47:12
Unknown
That's the weird thing. Like and and with the other events, it's really good that you do in them because like, I find them hard to do, like as in if I work all day, yes, I enjoy, but you know, the idea of going out, you're like, I can't be bothered. Yeah I have and some I have like this moment where I go like it's a lot easier for me to stay, but then, like, we wouldn't know each other if we didn't go to events because we would.

01:13:47:12 - 01:14:11:02
Unknown
Yes. We kind of spoke a little bit on LinkedIn in the pandemic, but that's helpful. But the goal is to meet in person, and that's what an interview was. So I don't think we'd be here if we weren't told, if we weren't going through an events. But I rather you push the search digitally and do that. Backed up with the in-person, with the view, the get in person.

01:14:11:04 - 01:14:37:04
Unknown
But yeah, it's that useful. Any other last quick questions. So I think we're on we're almost done with the question. So yeah. Yeah. Go on. So you were saying people could submit their CBO reports correct to a directory something. How about in Linktree? Could they, for example, find somebody in LinkedIn that works in that company? Yes. And approached them.

01:14:37:04 - 01:15:01:02
Unknown
So that is less intimidating. I think it's a great idea. Maybe do both as in, because like for example, sometimes I reply to link to messages, sometimes, like if I get ten in a day, I might genuinely miss it, or so I think to do both. Like, oh, you could do like a loop that you could apply to the main website, and then you could, you could connect with someone on LinkedIn and if they connect you back on.

01:15:01:07 - 01:15:20:23
Unknown
Hi John, I've just applied to the main inbox to work with you, but in case this easier, I'm hearing is just at the same time that's really friendly and but you know, if they don't reply then it's not the end of the world. So I like doing both, but I absolutely I mean, LinkedIn is a very powerful platform.

01:15:20:23 - 01:15:45:17
Unknown
And if you haven't got a LinkedIn account, then now is probably a time. Truthfully, when you're in uni, you kind of don't need a LinkedIn account, but it's handy. But when you be coming into looking for a job, it borders into like you're at a disadvantage. Now if you're not on LinkedIn. And it's kind of like, I, I mean, put it this way.

01:15:45:23 - 01:16:07:03
Unknown
I mean, I pay LinkedIn, extortionate amount of money and I do that because that's where all the professionals are. So we pay for LinkedIn jobs, everything, and they charge me arm and a leg. But I wouldn't do it if it didn't work. And there's a whole conversation on there that. But you know, when you just starting out, you're like, oh my gosh, what is this?

01:16:07:03 - 01:16:09:10
Unknown
And you just add a few people and you can connect with me.

01:16:09:12 - 01:16:32:22
Unknown
But the last thing is you all are very employable. You're all here today, which says a lot and you all can do it. We just have to do it. And for those guys, I've said it was like nine out of ten. Hard, I know, but if you I promise you, if you look at what I've done today, you will get a job faster.

01:16:32:24 - 01:17:02:05
Unknown
It will just get your cogs going and you will get them. So you should be all proud. I know it's hard, but the last thing I'll say is it's incredibly hard. Studying architecture and interior design. And you're surrounded by intelligent people, so sometimes you can be like, oh, I'm not sure, but you all have to remember that your office standards, but that standard is excellent and you all can get a job.

01:17:02:07 - 01:17:12:19
Unknown
So feel positive about me. Anyways, thank you guys. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks for coming. Who is all right. Have I passed the test? Thank you.