How to Shine in an Architecture Interview

0004 - How to Shine in an Architecture Interview
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Jack Moran: [00:00:00] Hello. Are we live? Oh, we're live. Happy Wednesday everyone. Oh, it's Tuesday today, isn't it? I'm losing track of days already. Thanks everyone for joining us this week. So look guys, this is the topic where we're going to be talking about interviews most. Now, Stephen and Will, we've gone through the whole process of, designing the great CV.

Designing that cool portfolio, getting that portfolio out to the market and trying to secure as many interviews as you can. But now we're going to try and dive into the actual interview itself today. I think we both would probably agree in saying that this is, a real make or break for a lot of people.

And I think people can learn most from here about interviews because it's quite. It's quite an uncomfortable situation, isn't it, for most people? Do you have any initial thoughts, Stephen, on, on, what you want to dive into?

Stephen Drew: It's the interview. It's like the date. It's the thing where you're building up in your head.

You're going, you're like, oh my gosh, I've got to go on the date. And it is the make or break [00:01:00] moment. Try not to, Overwhelm yourself in your head, first of all, and the best way to tackle things, which seem like a huge task, is to break them down into small pieces, because if you start thinking, oh, this interview is going to be the, I've got to make it.

Otherwise, I'm never going to get a job. But if you start thinking like that, then it's going to be overwhelming. So we want to break it down and take it step by step. And yes, an interview is important, but you can deal with it, and if you go through things and take it, look at each particular problem and solve it.

And you feel confident. So there's a few things we can go through, Jack, and I know you've got a list, so maybe we go through the list.

Jack Moran: We start at the top of the list, right? So it's the morning of the interview, let's say that, you've got you're excited. You're good night's sleep.

Morning?

Stephen Drew: We've not prepared the night

Jack Moran: before. You're leaving at late night, yeah. This is when you're going to ask yourself, what do I need to bring with me to the interview? So what, physically, what are the things that need to [00:02:00] be brought,

Stephen Drew: Stephen? Okay, bring yourself. That's a good start, isn't it? And then that will help.

Okay, so you need to beforehand research where the company is. You should have gone through the website completely. If you've had an interview requested a week before, you should have gone through the website. And so you need to know where this thing is because you're physically going to have to go there.

And if it's online in a Zoom meeting, you need to mentally it's, I still like to go to the company's office because then you can mentally work out how long it takes to get there and how long your commute is because when COVID's over, you will be physically going back somewhere. And so you want to research the commute, you want to dress appropriately, you want to be smart, you don't want to be too casual, far from it.

I remember my friend once said, Oh, architects wear jeans. So I'm going to go for an interview in jeans. And I remember saying I can't say his name, but I remember saying, Hey, I think that's a bad idea. You should definitely not go in jeans. And he was like, Steve, I've been [00:03:00] in an architecture practice, everyone wears jeans.

And so he went to the interview and I remember it because basically as soon as he got into the interview, the employer went like this. So you you didn't think I was worth pressing that for, did you? And then the whole interview was completely doomed! Because he was like I appreciate that you want to work here, but do you really want to work here?

Because you just flopped out of bed and put your jeans on. You want to physically research where it is. You want to wear appropriate clothes. Have a look at their website, the kind of clothes that they wear. Maybe it's a smart polo shirt, maybe it's black jeans, or maybe you've got like the what's it called, Jack, the turtleneck, the fancy thing, or a suit, something like that.

You want to dress appropriately, and you need to bring, in a physical interview, your CV and portfolio. On a Zoom interview, it's going to be a little bit different, but you still need to dress appropriately. Smart for the interviews, whether they're physical or digital. So if I had a digital interview, I would treat [00:04:00] it the same way as a physical interview, dress appropriately, have your CV to hand, have your portfolio to hand, and if it's a digital interview, you probably want.

To have your CV file ready and portfolio and arrange that beforehand. But basically you have this time slot and you need to make sure you're there on time. And that's the other one I was going to say is that you do need to make sure you get there very early. I used to go an hour early sometimes or half an hour early.

That's probably a bit more sensible. And you basically even suss out the door, you suss out the corridor. And you work out all that stuff and then you go for a quick drink down the road. That's it. Preferably not a coffee, so you don't want to spill it all nervous over yourself or anything like that, because that's just going to throw your game off.

You basically, the lead up time to the interview, you need, once you've worked out where it is, you can relax, you can zen. And if you've got that CV and portfolio, then you can jump in. That's the [00:05:00] mindset, but the night or two before, you really need to do research on the company. You need to go through the website, You need to know everything about it, any new events on, so anything such as a new project.

Mention it. Mention it at the start when you're going in. Hey Jack, thank you so much for your time here. I really appreciate it. Especially when you've just won that competition entry at the Parklands Ah, Answers, Report. It's stuff like that's going to add these layers and layers of substance to the interview.

And that's really what you want to do. You want the person to who's interviewing you to come across. For you to make the impression that you have a lot of substance, that you've researched the interview because you've You are excited and you want to be there. You're wearing the right appropriate clothes because you're not doing what my friends did and wearing a pair of jeans.

You're actually gonna dress up for the interview you [00:06:00] care about and you're going to arrive on time because, hey, you do not want to be late. That is. One on one and being on the back foot. And that really is what this is about. An interview is a meeting for both people. You're both equal. You have respect for the employer and also I'm sure they will respect you being there.

And that's the way you want to keep it. When you are late or you're not dressed appropriately or you haven't researched the company, it feels impersonal. And then. If I was hiring you, if I was interviewing, just like we had the interview, Will did, you did all the research from the company, and when we first met, we talked about architecture in the second interview, then you researched a bit more, and it's that kind of thing that adds an extra layer of conversation, which ultimately gets you the job.

Yeah,

Will Ridgway: cool. Yeah I would like to I think you have a really Good points there. A lot of stuff that I was [00:07:00] also going to say as well, which is good because it shows that we're quite aligned. But I think when you first meet the person you're going to be interviewed by, they're going to judge you straight away, unconsciously, because that's what we all do when we meet people.

Whether on your date or whether it's like a stranger in the street, we all judge people naturally. It's just the way we are. And the best thing we want to do is make sure that judgment is, you've got to be at least positive or at least not negative because otherwise you're going to be, on the back foot already and you've got to work your way up in the interview to get to a point where they're actually impressed by you.

So that's, that way, if you prepare everything so your appearance is, you've researched the company, talking about, maybe they've done a piece of charity work recently. That's maybe like a Tough Mudder. You could be like I've done a Tough Mudder, the same one, for example, those sort of things.

If it looks like you're engaged with the company already, that's going to make it a lot easier for a natural conversation to happen. And then. And consequently, because of that, [00:08:00] it would mean that you instantly draw parallels with each other. And so there's a lot more common ground there, and then that naturally boosts your chances of leaving with a good impression, leaving with a good impression.

Yes.

Stephen Drew: Yeah. Do you know what? I'm just going to cheekily add an extra little point onto that, because I think we'll Hit the Eureka moment. To me, an interview is very much about conversation and rapport. And it's a little bit like the way we are with this of so before this webinar, I guess what you call it.

So Will did a preparation of what we're going to talk about. And the truth is I don't research it like a script. Okay. We know what we're going to talk about because we've studied the area and we're feel confident in that, but there is no report. There is no one, two, three, four, five, six. And it's the same thing we're presenting.

I am always amazed when in, in architecture school, the amount of people which would read a script in front. And I [00:09:00] really think. That is the wrong way to go about it. An interview is a conversation, okay, and it is about rapport, and they want to learn about you, see who you are, and what they want to do is learn through discussing you and who you are, and then they will with you.

Then hopefully, you'll get the point across that you can do the job, because ultimately, they're looking for the next person to join their team. They're looking to solve a problem, right? So the first thing they want to do is get, have someone that they can get along with, someone they can envision in the office, and then someone who's smart and can do the task.

And that is all going to come through in conversation. And this is the thing, there is no set agenda of questions. And if you go in with that and you think I've got to research all these questions, then there's a chance that you can get completely blindsided. You've got to be okay with the conversation flowing in different director directions, exactly like a date.

And you've got to be, you've got to, you've [00:10:00] got, where you've got to do your research is you've got to know your project, know your key skills. And there's a few things that we. We could talk about that's likely to come up such as what software you use and how soon can you start and all these questions which are important or salary might come up and you've got to learn how to be comfortable talking about money because that is a very important skill in life.

There's nothing wrong with talking about money. It's not, we've got to really get rid of that British thing of being, Oh, I can't talk about money. It's really awkward. You have to talk about it in a professional capacity. Because being a professional is earning a salary as well. So there's definitely these key points.

The thing is, though, that conversation can go in different ways. And in the interview, you've got to think of it like, how do I convey in half an hour to an hour, and sometimes it can go on longer, Who I am, what I'm about, where I want to work, where have I been, and what have I done, and when can I start?

And you need to convey who, what, where, when, why in that time period and [00:11:00] have a conversation with them. And you need to go through the portfolio. At a consistent pace, you do not, and this is one of the things that's definitely worth researching before, is you do want to practice a bit the pace of the portfolio.

The worst thing you can do is get stuck on one or two pages, and we talked about this in the portfolio, and it does link to the interview because the real, So go back to the portfolio one where we've gone into it in a bit, where when you were talking about interviews, you do need to research the flow, because there's so many times I've met someone who's fantastic, and then I'm a busy professional, so I only have half an hour to see someone, and we've spent 20 minutes talking about it.

The introduction of a project, and it is absolutely a big time killer. There's also another example isn't there, of a candidate will talk very vaguely. So a really talented architect that went for an interview [00:12:00] and talked too long. And in the end, the interviewers got frustrated. And they like the person, but it fatigued them.

It's like watching a film that's too long. You've got to hit that sweet spot of enough information and go through it. And you can always tell the interviewer that you will return to any point they're interested in, or you can talk about it in more detail, but say that you're going to give them an overview of the portfolio.

And if there's anything in particular they want to go through, then you're more than happy to jump in and talk about it. Don't just talk about one sheet forever.

Will Ridgway: Absolutely. I think it's important to be able to have the luxury of, talking about the overview, but then if the employer is, the person interviewing you.

Is interested in a particular section. You have the capacity to be like, okay, we can go down that avenue for now. Let's talk about this quickly. Just give you a bit more insight on that particular project because that's where you want to spend your most time because that's what they're [00:13:00] interested in.

And that's probably what's gonna, it's probably because that particular project is parallel, has a lot of parallels to. What they're doing at the company. And so that's why it's important to them. And I think as well what Steve said is right about not having a script. You've gotta have, you've gotta have some idea of what you're gonna talk about, but you don't wanna have it like completely rehearsed.

So that's, it's very scripted. For example, I went to an interview once and I had a recruiter who got me this interview and they told me all the questions that was going to, questions that was potentially gonna be asked. To me. So I had rehearsed every single answer and the feedback I got from the interview was that I was too scripted.

I sounded too scripted. I said exactly what they wanted to hear. Yeah, and it wasn't very good and it meant that the conversation didn't really flow as much as well. And so that's why you want to stay away from scripts because otherwise your comfort zone is to have a script. You want to stay away from that because it becomes unnatural and then therefore a little bit, less human more like robot.

And, we would much [00:14:00] rather work with a human than work with a robot. So it's important to have an idea of what you're going to talk about, but not necessarily have it scripted for the entire time. And so that also allows you to For example, if your portfolio, if you do go down another avenue then obviously you're going to lose time a little bit on other areas of the portfolio.

So it's important to be able to adjust to that so you can cover either the rest of it or at least cover the essential bits so that they don't get, you don't get cut off at the end.

Jack Moran: Yeah, presentation, isn't it? When you're doing it as well, I think the night before the interview, a few nights before, it's not going to hurt if you grab a family member or a friend and just say, look, do you mind if I run through my portfolio with you, that way I can gauge sort of things to talk about without having to, write stuff down because everyone here knows what it's like to talk to someone who's reading from a script.

It is. That's the most pedantic conversation you could probably have. But on that topic, we just had our first question coming from Alex Johnson. Hi Alex. With an interview over Teams how would you get your work [00:15:00] across to them in the best possible way? I think I've got a couple of asks Stephen can add as well.

I think the best thing to do would normally be to email it, but way ahead of time. So if you're going to email any documents they need to see, get that done a few days before and ask for them. So give you confirmation they perceived in don't just, the night before having said that, I don't know if teams has that capability, the screen sharing, I don't know if that will work so well on it.

I think the safest thing is the email a few days before get confirmation. They've got it.

Stephen Drew: Yeah. Do you know what? It's a really interesting one, Jack, because right now, then this is the learning curve with me. Cause look at me, look right now, I'm looking at the computer. And you can see on my screen, I'm looking down.

It's not really engaging. So in this weird world, we've got to almost look at the camera and smile and talk, and you need to embrace the show and you have to sell to the person that you really want the job you're really interested, which is very difficult. Cause my natural reaction is to look down here.

Cause I see you two gentlemen, right? When I'm looking down here, [00:16:00] I'm not engaged with the camera. And so this is the thing, and this goes back to the science to me of it's eye contact, it's rapport, it's that personal feeling, it's that personal touch, and that's when, for instance, even in our job, we always try to meet people, and I will always try to meet the client, because it's so important to meet an architectural practice to understand them, go to the office, and so that when you meet architects who are looking for jobs, you can pair it up.

This is a new obstacle for everyone. And I, gosh, I'm not going to say that unprecedented time thing, but you know what, it is a strange one. So what we've got to do is you've almost got to instill the art forms, which are still real within interviews. And you've got to look at, you've got to do it digitally.

So key things on the top of my head, and it is a base, and this is based upon what I've viewed already. with people interviewing in my day job and the clients as well [00:17:00] and also through this you need to work out a way that you can build a human rapport and I'll tell you right now if you start smiling in that webcam and you start looking in that webcam and if you can drive the work and you're going to need to research whatever platform it's not fun.

But if it's in Microsoft Teams, you need to go on and set it up. If it's in Skype, you've got to do that. If it's in Zoom, we have to adjust. We have to overcome. Okay. And you've got to, like Jack said, you've got to get the files to them. That is going to be such an important one, right? Because let me tell you, if you just have the files and imagine something goes wrong on your end.

Then at least if you sent it in an email, they can bring it up on your screen. But again, it goes back to the concept we talked about of conversation, because I think that the format of interviews online is this whole new world of ways. And there's going to be several different ways of software, several different ways of presenting and you need to feel okay with [00:18:00] even technical things going wrong.

You need to feel okay with the idea of you can't see certain things. I remember we were talking before this that I can see myself in the room. Will can see me and my exercise bike. And we were all going, Oh my gosh, it's all changed and what's going on. And this is the thing you got to be able to freeze style.

You've got to move on because the thing is once that interview is in, it's. You've got to imagine that these people are too busy to have another interview, right? So you've really got to make what you can with it. And also when you have problems in an interview, if you can overcome them in a human way, That is problem solving.

That's exactly the quality I look for in someone in my team. They're not expecting you to know everything and also that's the nature of the beast. It's okay for things to go wrong. The best thing is almost to have a little pleasant remark or a little joke about it and move on professionally. That's what I would do.

Excellent.

Will Ridgway: Sorry, can [00:19:00] I add to that as well? When you research whatever platform you're having the interview over, use stuff like YouTube to actually talk you through it. Don't just read up about it because then you can actually see how you set something up. And in regards to showing If you're not able to do it digitally, I don't, correct me if if this is probably not the best way, Steve, but my gut would be to, it has a downside to it, but my gut would be to get your webcam or whatever you're using a camera, have it pointed down towards a desk and where you have your portfolio, and therefore you can flip through it.

The only downside to that is that they don't get to see your work. I think it's the eye contact, but the ideal situation would be to have a screenshare option, or even if you can add like another camera to it. I don't, I'm not really sure to be honest, but somewhere that you can see the physical copies.

Ideally digital would be better.

Stephen Drew: I think you're onto something. What it is though, is that let's not get too precious about How [00:20:00] do I do this? Or how do I do that? The point is, you need to be able to freestyle right now. And the person that feels most comfortable being caught on the whim, going on stage or to the interview in two minutes notice because they prepared and they have a few different solutions to showcase the work, that's the person that's going to succeed.

And because I was just looking at Alex, you ask a sensible question about how do you do things? And should I do this and that? And the truth is we can spend so long working out specific scenarios. The thing is we've got to be really fluid. We've got to be really fluid. I was just going to add

Jack Moran: to that, Stephen, as well, because you were going back to Alex's point about the physical copies, wasn't it, of some of them project works.

Now, of course, in architecture, you're going to have cases like that where some clients don't want digital copies of their projects, out in the open. What you can do, though, Alex, a lot of smartphones now have the capability to do scanners. So they can scan a document onto your computer.

I think obviously you could always post it to [00:21:00] them. That's the option. But in, as Stephen's getting at, in this digital age where everything's becoming more technologically based, it's always, good to play it safe and have a copy at their end and a copy at your end. Because we are having to adjust, we are having to change the way we work it's going to happen.

You could, you could try and post it to him, but I definitely think getting it onto a computer, having a digital copy and physical copy of your REND, REND is going to be the safest bet.

Stephen Drew: Fine. I agree with that. The thing is, though Working out all this stuff is not going to save you if the substance is not there, right?

The people invest in the person. I don't really, if, so the thing is you can hire someone almost. So the ideal scenario is that someone's really well rehearsed, that they come across really well. And then you have the CV and portfolio to match. The thing is though, it's the person at the front is that you're hiring.

Okay. You don't want [00:22:00] little things going wrong to hang you up. The thing is though, if things do go wrong, you can deal with it. It's no problem. You, as long as you and your mindset have the attitude of. Okay, this has gone wrong. We're going to move on. There's a really good thing coming up in my head.

Remember when we went to one of the clients and I, and then we were printing out all these documents before, and I was like quick, we've got to get them out. And we were racing so hard. And then we missed, we got everything printed out. I was watching

Jack Moran: you do this in the office. I was like, you're running around like a chicken.

Stephen Drew: Running around getting everything because we really wanted this presentation to be the best it possibly could. And then we got there in the tube and me and Will got there and we were, we showed up and I opened my briefcase and I forgot to put them all in. And I remember I looked at Will like this and went, Oh and you know what?

I was not going to say to the client, I forgot to bring these things and we pushed on, right? And I had [00:23:00] the millisecond in my head where I went, Oh no, I don't have it. And then I went, do you know what? I don't have that file. And I've got to deal with this situation right here, right now. And in the end, we had a really good meeting, didn't we?

Yeah, it was good. The thing is though, it was that in that moment. I could have crumbled, going oh, I haven't got, I haven't got them and this is a nightmare, and I'm a failure, and all them things that, them thoughts that creep into you when you're in the shower sometimes, and you go oh no, when did I do that for?

It was like one of them moments. But we just had to do it and that was my gut instinct was just like, you know what the show goes on and we can win this and actually they've come here to see us and we can talk about a solution and I don't need that piece of paper and in the end of the piece of paper was almost irrelevant.

Wasn't it? And which is funny because we print, we were printing them out. And that's why I think I bought you a beer afterwards. Cause sorry about all the printing out and I forgot it. [00:24:00]

Jack Moran: This won't work with a portfolio, by the way. You don't forget the portfolio. You have to

Stephen Drew: bring that. But the analogy, yeah.

The analogy is that. Mistakes sometimes happen, and whether it's a technical issue or not, then you move on with it. But yes, Jack, actually, you're right. I remember one of my candidates years ago, an architect, went to an interview without a portfolio, and it was a very short interview. So I guess what I'm saying is that you don't rely on certain things supporting you.

As long as you've got your CV and portfolio, and if technical things go wrong in the day, then sometimes in life it happens. It's just that it is what it is. Excellent.

Jack Moran: Just another question as well that's come in from Betty. This is an interesting one, you'll like this, Stephen. So how do you know about answering the question professionally, bear in mind, how much do you want to be paid in an interview?

I myself, I would just say competitively and like literally cut it off there, but what would you guys do?

Stephen Drew: I like to [00:25:00] go a bit further, but bravo Jack, I never said that back in the day. I remember I'd be like, Oh, I don't know. I don't know. I'm not sure because no one taught me. Now I would always say it's never wrong to talk about salary.

Okay. Nothing wrong with talking about salary at all. And I remember once even further Jack, when I was a part one, when I had quite a big famous practice now, actually at the time they were like If you were to work on Pays, then that would be highly desirable. And I remember one thing I did say, and I think you'd be proud of me, is that I said, Look, the reality is, I would love to get this experience.

The truth is, it's really expensive to live in London. There's upkeeps and actually, I like to work hard and to have a comfortable life based upon that. And that, it's supposed not to work harder. So I believe I'd need a salary that we both agree is fair. And so what I did is I played, I threw it back, and then they humbly went, Oh no, we're not saying that.

It just would have been an idea. And this is the thing, right? They were definitely saying it. [00:26:00] They were definitely saying it. I agree with you. And you've got to stick out for your value, right? And this is the key thing. My question is, my point would be to find out your value. Let's pretend, so when I was on Part 2, I was 30 grand.

And if you're looking for another Part 2 salary after year or two, You say, my current salary is at 30, 000. That's what I joined at two years ago. And with the experience that I've got now and looking at current market salaries, looking at salary guides online, I believe a fair salary would be 34, 000. How do you feel about that?

Throw it back with a question. Everyone, no one ever does that. Throw it back with a question. It's a conversation, right? That I would, if someone did that to me in the interview, I would be like, oh, okay. All right. That's it. This is a go getter. This is someone who cares about their career. So it's absolutely nothing wrong with asking about salary.

I reckon we [00:27:00] could do either, and I'm happy to do as well, a whole Topic about salary negotiation, if it's really possible if it's really a popular one, because that in itself is an art form. And let me tell you, if you don't ask in life, you don't get, and I remember one friend who always told me, I remember it was and I might've even been when I worked in grocery.

So don't worry, it's not an architectural practice, but it, I remember reading that in the, basically every, the yearly reveal. The Yearly Review interview, which is another interview. It was like, this is not a place to talk about salaries. And my friend used to talk about salaries all the time in there.

And I'd be like, mate, wait, it says not to talk about salaries. That's a bit rude, isn't it? And every time he had a pay rise, the little old me was still on the 6. 50. So this is the thing that you can ask it, but you remember you're doing it in a nice way, a challenging way. And so the way to do with salaries is [00:28:00] always to bring it in line with your responsibilities.

So you say, I've learned so much in the last year or two, I've completed a certain project. Therefore, I would like a salary. Therefore, can we please talk about a salary in line with my new. Experience. And also I want to take on more responsibilities. So if we agree, I take on these more responsibilities.

Can we discuss a salary in line with that? I am thinking 34, 000. A 4, 000 increase. That's the kind of thing. If it's your first job in industry though, you probably want to say, I have researched the Part 1 salary and I believe it is 22, 000 in central London. So something around that area, in line with what the company offers, I would be most agreeable to.

And then also, why don't you say, is there a particular bandwidth salary for part ones? Nothing wrong with asking that in a nice way. You're just asking, there's [00:29:00] absolutely nothing wrong with that, because you're asking because you're serious about the opportunity, you're serious about going there, and that's fine.

Remember though, it's tone with all this, it's not I'm looking for 42 and I believe I'm worth it, is that what you pay? No, you don't do that, you go, okay. I'm just out of London. I'm super excited. It's an expensive city and I've researched basically, I think, a part time salary is around 22, 000 in London.

Anything like that, so I can have a comfortable life and come to work hard, all excited, would be fantastic. Is there a particular salary that you guys have in mind? That's the kind of vibe that I'm going for, and that would be my little advice. Maybe what we should do I think this is a really good one to talk about in more detail, because it's definitely one of them.

It's a taboo subject, isn't it? It shouldn't be, but you're right, it is almost this oh my gosh, it's like the dinner party thing, where sometimes I'm terrible, because I hear salaries all the time, and I'm like, oh yeah, what are you worried? And then people are like, [00:30:00] oh my gosh, you

Will Ridgway: can't ask

Jack Moran: that! Ah!

Come on! Just continuing on with some of the questions. Will, I want to direct one of these questions towards you. This one comes from Venny. Say you've got a physical interview underway. Are you going to turn up with a tablet and like digital sort of presentation on that, or you're going to go with the good old physical copy?

What are your thoughts? I will

Will Ridgway: I always go for the safer option because the last thing you want is, whilst you've got to be able to adapt anyway, the last thing you want is having to need to adapt because something's failed. Now obviously with a tablet, the problem you've got with that is that, first of all, it's smaller, so it displays your work smaller.

Most physical copies are A3 sheets, so it's much easier to show and present your work anyway. The problem with tablets is that anything could happen. You might have forgotten your charger, it might be a low charge even on the way if it's raining, something, it might have got water damage on the way in, for all you know, so it's always best [00:31:00] to have a physical copy.

Now what you can do, is if you do, if you really insist on using a tablet, Bring your physical copies along with you anyway as a backup just in case. That's what I would say, but with physical copies you can't really go wrong. The only thing you can go wrong with physical copies is if you haven't protected it from any of the weather whilst transporting it in.

You want to make sure that you have a something waterproof to keep them in so that they don't get wet at all in the rain. If it is raining, it usually is in the UK, but that's what I would say. Cause it's a safer option. You, the last thing you need is a stress of your tablet not turning on as soon as you get into the interview.

We don't want that to happen.

Stephen Drew: Yeah. Yeah.

Will Ridgway: It really you don't want to, don't want to risk it. Don't want to risk it. Even if you think you've checked everything, it's charged, got it in a waterproof case, it's nothing's going to happen to it. You never know. You never know. Life throws so many curveballs at you.

Absolutely.

Stephen Drew: And this, and the other thing with Interboost, you don't need a massive A1 [00:32:00] portfolio. I had one when we were in my first year out and like me, we'll tell you that thing, you're going to lug it around. You don't need it. Do an A4 book or an A3 book, ring band, happy days. And if you're going to bring your tablet, think of it as a supportive item to back up.

Will said, the core thing should be that printed out portfolio, 30 sheets or so. Remember it was 10 sheets for a sample portfolio. Portfolio in person should be about 30 sheets in the interview. And you're going to rehearse it one minute per page tops. So you're not going over 30 minutes, the whole portfolio.

Definitely do not go, you really actually want to do a portfolio ideally in 10 to 15 minutes if you can. You want to have this nice brisk feel and then maybe there's a sheet or two that you talk for about two, three minutes because the employer wants to talk about it, not because you think it's relevant.

It's because they choose to go into it.

Will Ridgway: I had also, once I had one of the good things about I suppose a [00:33:00] laptop or a tablet is if you have the capabilities of showing a BIM model, for example. Yeah. Which can be really good. I know you can, obviously you can take screenshots, which is great. However, if you could show that the live model, that's the advantage of having a laptop.

I had that, someone did that with me once and I was just like, it was the first live BIM model I'd seen. So it was it was pretty amazing. , Hey.

Stephen Drew: Yeah and that's the thing, because it goes back to this theme of Zoom, back to this theme of everything. If the laptop breaks down, you've got the CV and the portfolio.

And if the portfolio gets crumpled or something, you've got the tablet in the background. or the laptop or what have you and this is the thing because I remember the thing is the laptops and and tablets is that you can get screen glares and stuff and they can be really frustrating so that's something to bear in mind because you don't know in the interview whether you're going to be meeting three people huddled around one table and that there's a window with light coming in and you can't see anything and that can be an absolute nightmare.

Mind game. And [00:34:00] that's the thing. You've got to stop by going out these mind games. That's the point. The whole point of the interview is that you can't, if you've done the stuff we talk about in terms of if you've researched the company you're genuinely interested in working there. That's a big one for a start.

You, you made sure you get there on time. Okay. You're dressed appropriately. You have all this stuff, right? You are prepared. There's no reason why you should feel negative about it. You're actually one up. You're doing everything right. And that's the point because all these things, it's about you having a mindset where you think, I'm going to go and have a pleasant interview and have an interesting conversation.

And you're going to learn about them as they're going to learn about you. It's my famous saying isn't it? The interview is just as much for you as it is for them. And that's what everyone forgets. I use it all the time as well. Yeah it's true. And I really believe it because I remember when I was a part one, you get so enamored by the fact that you're privileged to get a job.

And do you know what? It is a great thing. And you have to [00:35:00] respect employers. You also have to understand your value as well. So no one likes arrogance. We're not saying that or anything at all. No one likes self entitlement. But you deserve this opportunity and you're going to prove to them why. And you're going to make them want you when you're practicing and be like, Oh my gosh, I met that person and he was fantastic.

She was fantastic. She came in with all this stuff and that's the thing people buy with emotion, right? You got to get them emotionally invested in you. They go, Jack was such a pleasant chap, such an engaging conversation. He's a really nice guy who's come from London, worked hard all his life, proper grafter.

And then do you know what? I went through his portfolio and he had the BIM models and he had all that stuff, right? Emotionally invested in Jack because he came smart and he impressed me and we'd get along because we played video games or whatever, right? And then it was his ability on the job to do the job.

And I'm like, yeah, I can see him doing it. He got the BIM models. He'd be all right. He'll fit well in on the team. Boom. That's the concept, right? [00:36:00] So that that's what it's about. It's about a conversation. It's about showing who you are and getting that point across.

Jack Moran: Excellent. So we've got quite a few questions coming in now, so I thought we could just do a bit of a whip around, give a question to each.

I'll go up to Shandni for the first one, which was saying, how would you turn a negative into a positive in an interview? So say you've been ill earlier in the year and you might not have, look for a job for a while and there might appear to be a bit of a gap on your CV. How would you go about that?

I can talk about this, from as I've worked in a lot of these sort of situations. I've worked with a lot of people who have had career breaks. Now what you've got to realize is that when you're interviewing with people, there is no point in lying to them as well. Okay. Because When someone is interviewing you, you have to realize that they've probably interviewed about 9, 000 other people in their whole career as well.

Not for this one job, for loads of jobs. So they'll know when they're being lied to. And that is the number one thing that can really hinder someone in an interview, is by lying or trying to cover up some kind of gap in their CV. [00:37:00] The best thing to do is If you have a gap in your CV, it might, no matter how personal it is, just say, Oh, I had personal health troubles, or I had an ill family member.

Be honest, be upfront. If you were looking for a job and didn't manage to find one in those times, be honest and upfront. Just say, Oh, look, I was looking for jobs at the time, but I wasn't really getting much luck, so I decided to put on halt for a bit. Always be honest with them, because interviewers like us, we, In Recruitment, we'll know about it as well.

We know when we're being lied to, okay. It is not a hard thing to pick up on and that really will make the difference in an interview. So honesty is the definitely the best approach. Yeah. If you guys have anything to add to that.

Stephen Drew: I agree. And it's the same thing with visas and everything. You almost feel awkward about it.

The thing is, you're gonna, the best thing to do is if you hit these things head on at the start you get them out of the way. And that's what I always say, because sometimes some very talented architects can feel really awkward about maternity leave. And I'm just thinking that's a fact of life, right?

Birth and pregnancy is a fact of life. And it's the same thing of looking after [00:38:00] people. It's the same thing with gaps. You just have to hit them head on. And it's the same thing with visas. You were born where you were born. You're here now, whether or not they can sponsor you. That's a different thing, but hitting it head on at the start is going to be important.

And Jack, you're right. I almost don't mention them lying because I think it's a given. If you lie in an interview, it will catch up with you. And you as a person, if you start fabricating this other version of yourself, That is the worst thing, because you make an imposter syndrome. You have to be yourself, and that's the thing, and that's where I'm at about a conversation.

Conversations come from the heart, they come from a human place, right? And people are interested in talking to real people, non scripted, and lying. It's just, to me, it just absolutely is true. It's So character destroying, and I think if you're lying, you've got to be very quick to say why you're lying.

And in an [00:39:00] interview thing, you're just completely setting it off for the backburner. You definitely don't want to do it. You definitely don't want to fudge dates around and stuff. You definitely don't want to do any of that. Things because they will catch up and I will do a reference check and let me tell you when I see no one's legally allowed to do a reference check, I can quickly work out what's going on because I might not be Einstein on certain things.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out, though, when things don't add up. You're all not going to do that, because you're all credible architects, and you're going to keep being credible. And to flip it around to a positive! It's because that was a negative topic, wasn't it? But lying!

Terrible. We're going to flip it around to a positive. You don't need to lie, because you're better than that, and you've worked hard, and you've got a, you're 2 1, and you're there, and you know what, if you haven't got the experiences yet, this is the point, you're gonna get the experience there's nothing wrong with where you're at, there's nothing wrong with taking a career break, if you went cycling around the world for a year, Say you went cycling around the [00:40:00] world, can't speak around the world for a year and in an interview, then you can talk about it.

Talk about how enriching it was, how you learned about different cultures, varieties. You got that out of your way so that now that you can knuckle down and work, that's a positive. They go, are you just gonna go around the world again? You go no. I did it for a year. It was fantastic. , you'll have me permanently for three years working hard on your project, so please hire me.

And that's the point of

Jack Moran: conversation, isn't it? Those kind of things are the things that build rapport, get the conversation flowing. Yes,

Stephen Drew: and that's the point of turning a positive to a negative. And so it comes from honesty. And a lie is a negative of a negative, and there ain't no spinning that into a positive.

Jack Moran: All right Will, I want to direct this next question at you because I feel like you'll be, you'll like this one. So it comes from Jamil. It's asked about, when you're interviewing. Why do firms ask people where else they're interviewing? And how do they go about answering that question?

Because it's quite a deep meaning, isn't it? This sort of why someone out of practice [00:41:00] would want to know where else you're interviewing. How would you go about it? And what advice could give to someone on a professional level?

Will Ridgway: If I've, I'd be, I would be just completely honest, to be honest.

So if I've got, yeah, I know, I'm very honest, if I've got other interviews lined up, it's very, actually, it actually is in your favour to mention them, even if they don't get brought up it's important for you to mention, maybe towards the back end interview, or maybe as you're leaving, just saying like mention, mention a comment about how you've got an interview with me.

So and so over here on Thursday, or I've got an interview next week with these guys, or I've already had an interview with this firm last week. The reason behind that is that it's, if you've, first of all, if you've got lots of interviews, it shows that you're in demand. And it means that if this particular interview has gone and they like you.

They'll want to act fast to make sure that they don't miss out on you, and particularly as well, if you're interviewing with one of their competitors, it's even more ammunition for [00:42:00] them to think if our competitors see value in this person, I think we can be safely assured that this would be the right person to bring on to our team.

So it works in your favor, and it can also work as well, a little bit in the negotiation stage as well, salary wise, but that's another topic that we'll. We can get on to another point. Now, if you don't have any other interviews, there's no harm in saying, just saying, well, I've only just been, I've started my job search.

You're the first people I've met. However, hope to have a few other interviews later on. There's no harm in saying that I've not got any other interviews, because particularly now it's a tough market. It's very difficult to actually get interviews. And I think as well, in a couple of years time, a lot of people are going to be honest in these interviews and saying I didn't have a job between April and August in 2009, 2020, because of COVID 19.

It was a very difficult time. Yeah I, it's always best to be honest but if you have other interviews, that goes in your favour a long way, because it [00:43:00] can actually speed up the process and yeah, that's what I would do. I don't know if you've got anything to add to that, Steve.

Stephen Drew: I like it, I think you're right, and remember, sometimes, It's, and remind the employers this in a nice way that actually, if you go into a few interviews, it reinforces why you want to work somewhere.

Okay. So if you go to the interview with the company that's in the interview now, when they ask you, you go, yes, I'm seeing a few a few into I'm seeing a few companies right now, very carefully selected at the same time. No. Should you make an offer? I would be very interested. There's nothing wrong with that.

And then you can also back it up where you say, there's a few reasons why, because seeing a few other companies reinforces the decision on who and where I want to work. It's a choice I make serious. I'm a serious professional. Everything, that I do is well considered. And where it moves on about why it's advantageous to you is [00:44:00] to see a few people is that sometimes what you can find is that if a company thinks you're just interviewing with them.

Sometimes they can be quick. Sometimes, you know what, they're like, okay, brilliant, we'll get back to Will, in two or three days. And what happens is if you're seeing other companies, then you create a little bit of momentum. And then you can say, look, I'm seeing several companies this week. I'd love to make a decision by Friday.

I will let you know if another company makes this an offer and I will inform you straight away so that you could know because I really see value in this company. And it's stuff like that, right? That, that then basically what you're doing is you come across really respectful and transparent because it is super unrealistic for you just to go to see one company and wait when actually they're interviewing five people as well.

For the job, right? It's just the fact of life, so there's absolutely nothing wrong with saying that, Jack.

Will Ridgway: Excellent. It's also, sorry to [00:45:00] Jack as well, it's important as well for your own benefit as well to have all those interviews because then you can actually make your own judgement and work out if, first of all it's a good interview practice anyway, but secondly as well, whether or not that company is the right fit for you, or if you might prefer another company.

So it's always it's always handy to have lots of interviews. It's great, it's a great position to be in. Even after you've had an interview, it's always best to not just sit on your laurels and think that interview went great, I'll wait to hear the answer soon. It's best just to keep going with your search and just, Keep going until you basically got a job, keep applying, get more interviews as much as possible.

Sorry Jack.

Jack Moran: No, I think that was actually the big point I was going to go into as well, mate. I think we've all been there, haven't we? You have a good interview, you have a really strong interview, the rapport's there, you come out of it and suddenly you'll put all your eggs into one basket because you might have got a really good vibe, unbeknownst to you how well anyone else has done in the interview.

So I was just going to completely agree you should get straight back to it. About getting your CVs back out there. What I was going to ask you guys is, what do you think, say you've had a really [00:46:00] strong interview for the graduate part ones, what sort of questions do you think they should ask at the end of the interview?

What is going to make them stick in the mind most of the person, conducting it? It's

Stephen Drew: definitely good to ask questions. They're try not, again, it goes back to this non scripted thing. I wouldn't go in with a few questions rehearsed. I would. I would tailor them around the company, around the conversation.

You definitely want to ask when they plan to get back to you. That's definitely a good one. And the other thing I would say is be inquisitive about what it's like to be in the company, right? If, for instance, they say they interview no questions, sometimes that can be okay. I always like to ask, I sometimes go the other way.

I can be terrible for that, where I turn the interview round into an interview for me. I'm like, what's it like to work here? So how many hours have you done? What's how profitable were you last year? Da. And there's something fun about that because you psychologically go the other way.

But I wouldn't recommend that to start with. That is something you learn over the course of your life. And you have to be [00:47:00] very delicate about how you ask things. And that's the point. I only ask things when it feels appropriate. So you could ask, for instance when did you join the practice? Oh, I joined a year or two, two years ago.

Okay, fantastic. And how was it? Oh, they've been so welcoming. I came here from a practice where I didn't join before. And they'd be really grateful. And on a Friday you do this and that. And we go for football on a Thursday. And you go, Oh, fantastic. I play football. And you build up rapport from that.

So ask questions you want to know. And but when you ask a question, ask open questions, right? Oh, this is a really interesting one is the worst kind of questions are really to I've always found Jonathan Ross wasn't that good of asking a question sometimes. Cause he'd be so tailored. He'd be like what kind of laptops do you use?

Because I use a Celeron laptop. Cause they're really faster. And you're like, what is that a question or a statement? Definitely don't answer questions with a statement. So you want to be like, when did you [00:48:00] join here? What do you like working about it? Where do you go and do you have any staff out?

And stuff like that. So where, what when's the ultimate questions? 'cause they're big questions and do or have. That kind of thing. Like a good example would be what support do you offer for part one students or and or do you find that part one students return to the practice? And for part two, is you want to ask stuff like, what support do you get during my part three?

And what do you enjoy most about working here? These are all really interesting, open questions and why they're interesting. It's not because they rehearsed, it's because wouldn't you like to know that? Wouldn't you like to know what the best thing to be at this company is about? I would, and that's the kind of thing.

I remember when I'm the MD of BMO McDonnell come in and why do you like working here? And he said, I run the company. I'm like what do you enjoy about it? And we had this whole talk and it caught him off guard. And it was a really nice organic conversation because I got to hear it basically.

his company values firsthand, which is really [00:49:00] nice. And I think that if I did the whole projective thing of what do you think about recruitment? Because my values in recruitment, you get it, you're You're not, if you're going to ask a question, let people ask you a question and answer the question and the best thing to do is ask a question you're interested in, which is open and it will, and think about it this way, quite interesting to see what they say, because if you say something, what you enjoy working about what you enjoy about working here and they can't answer you, that's not a good sign,

Will Ridgway: like what I think is, I think you don't want to ask questions that you can blatantly obvious to find on the answer on the website, for example, like I said, like Steve said, it's going to be interesting to you.

You don't want to be like, Oh, when did the company form? What kind of question is that? You can find out the website. That's not interesting. It's about being curious. If you're, if you look like you're curious, ask curious questions about what's it like to work there, what do you [00:50:00] do, and do you go out for beers on a Friday, for example, find out more about the company, because if it looks like you're curious, then suddenly, They, the interviewer thinks, okay this person's really interested in us.

That's a really good sign. I really like him as well. And I think as well, it's about if they think that you like them, then it strengthens their opinion on if they, if you think, if they, sorry, it strengthens their opinion on whether they want to hire you or not really, because it gives them a bit more security.

It's a bit like when you, maybe not quite so much, but when you're on a day and you want to take things. You want to see them again for a second date. It's a little bit daunting to ask that question, but if you know that they like you, then it's much easier to ask that question in the first place. So it's about, reassuring them as well.

Stephen Drew: Intelligent questions. What's it like to work there? Or stuff like, where do you see the company going in five to 10 years? Stuff like that is interesting, right? Because you're talking about forward thinking and you're [00:51:00] and basically then you're conveying to them that you're thinking about your feature and you'd like to be part of their feature.

So they are the kind of questions I would ask. It's very interesting, this one, because you know what, Jack, it's I think we could even do another one of these about interviews. At the same time, yeah, we can do this is more of an overview. And we can go into particular questions and so on the social, it would be really interesting to hear what you would like to get out of these podcasts or these webinars as well.

I think that's a pretty good overview for interviews. You're also, maybe it's worth saying that, prepare some, you've done really well. You have to mentally expect people not to reply super quickly. And if you don't hear from them, it doesn't mean you haven't got the job. You've got to chase up in a healthy way.

But remember the interview isn't the finale. Some people do an interview and then they just swan off, [00:52:00] don't they? And basically you've got to chase up a little bit. You've got to find out about you've got to keep going after you have to be the balance of, you don't want to be annoying, you also keep, need to keep chasing things because things can slip.

and that is annoying. You don't want, you don't want your interview to be slip or you don't want them to forget. So you've gotta get the balance. So there's definitely a level of aftercare after the interviews. And then also another topic that we will do is when you get an offer, how do you deal with the offer?

Oh, because let me tell you, there's loads of ways to do it right. And there's loads of ways it can go wrong. Holy moly. Actually we'll save that. But I quite like the idea of Jack talking about, you can't wait too long. You have to be up front. You can't play them. You need to be really transparent.

There's so much

Jack Moran: psychology involved, isn't there? Yeah, you've got

Stephen Drew: to protect your value, but then also you've got to do it with integrity and no one likes to be [00:53:00] played around with. And let me tell you, don't string along companies. Just because you want to keep things going, because people pick up on it quickly, and it can be free.

And the other thing is, never, I'm a big believer of it's not good to barter or play around with salaries when against another company. You can do it. It's a really risky game. We will talk about that. But if you're going to play around with salaries, be prepared for people to turn you down. Okay, it's if you want to play the game and you want to roll the dice, you want to play the game?

You're gonna have to play the game and then we, not everyone wins in Russian roulette, okay? And then, but it goes back to, because we had last week, didn't we? We had really talented interior designer on the social and I talk about, oh my gosh, are they going to trip me up in the interview?

And that's the thing. It's not about tripping you up. And the sooner you get it in there, in your mentality of what you're talking about is your worth and you being there because you want to be there, then you talk about the salaries from the heart. And therefore [00:54:00] you suddenly, you're not playing salaries and companies against each other.

You're saying, I'm I think I'm worth 45, 000 pounds and for XYZ and if the company can't do it, then you need to factor that in, but the last thing you want to do is play this one app, one app game, because what happens is that might work once where your salary, you get an offer from a company.

That you believe is, you want to work with one company, but the offer is lower than the other. You can let the other company know about the higher offer, but be prepared for them not to match it. Maybe that would be a good one for us to do next. Either, maybe we'll do a vote whether we want the social world, whether we talk more about interviews or we'll do a vote on whether we talk about offers and salaries is the next one.

Will Ridgway: We could even potentially do a bit of a split between the two and one, depending on, I dunno, how much content we could probably get into the. Salaries work. We probably could make an hour long video on the, yeah, let me tell you,

Stephen Drew: hour of your time. If the techniques [00:55:00] I've learned, we know can get you a few thousand pounds more, that's a good hour.

That's a good investment. Yeah.

Jack Moran: So I think if we do a, just a bit of a short summary on just everything we've So I think, the main thing is failing to prepare is preparing to fail. Make sure you've got your copies digital or physical or both to be safe. Do a short presentation a couple of days before that.

Do it each day to a family member before just Run just to help you get set up when you're, if you're doing an interview over Teams or you're doing it over Zoom, make sure you've emailed your CVM portfolio to them, not the night before, you want it a few days before, even the night on the confirmation of the interview, and just make sure they have it and everything's going to go smoothly.

And I think, don't be afraid to ask questions. And remember that you're there for a reason, they wanted to interview you for a reason. It's not just you got lucky. They saw your work. They like it. They want to get more to know about yourself. So use that to putting your personality into the interview.

Don't do what Stephen and Will said, don't read from that script. Don't [00:56:00] become that robot person. Make sure you keep your personality involved. I think that's it. That pretty much covers everything for the base of the interview. So anything else you two would like to add?

Stephen Drew: Just a quick one.

Loving everyone on the social. So sorry, this week I've been working full time. So it's been interesting juggling things. And the boys have been awesome because they've got to listen to me talk about work, talk about my enthusiasm and excitement for the social, as well as me talking about me. Trying to get on the exercise bike, which you may or may can't see in the screen.

We don't know. So if you need anything, I'm absolutely loving everyone's involvement in this, and the Architecture Social. The more and more everyone talks to each other and gets involved, the quicker we will learn. And we all want to improve where we're at. We're all quite talented. Let me look at the camera.

You're all really talented. And if you keep on improving, then God knows how much, how big the impact we can have together. And this is the thing is that you're all really [00:57:00] smart. Designers and Architects and I'm quite interested to push you a little bit further. The thing is though, it's not all just talking about me.

It's all getting involved with each other, commenting on each other's works, showing up, getting involved, chatting, posting your work on the showcase area. Getting your work involved, getting out there. And then once I post your work, you gotta rustle up that momentum and do it. So I think that's what I would encourage everyone is to keep going.

And I tell you what the most active people in this community, I gam, I will. Bet you they are the ones that are going to be really, have the biggest impact in architecture because it's just the way it is. When you see something, there's just something there. Definitely get involved. If you haven't posted already, or you're lurking in the corner, come out from the corner and say hello!

We're all humans, so definitely get involved. Send Jack and Will a message. Drop me a message as well. If I'm slow to reply, it's just because I've been a bit busy this week, but I'm loving [00:58:00] everything. Thank you so much. Thanks very much for

Jack Moran: joining us guys.

Stephen Drew: Hey, thank you very much.

Jack Moran: Enjoy the rest of your week.

Take care everybody.

Stephen Drew: All right See you laters. Take care. I'm loving it. Post your work if you haven't. Get involved. All right, I'm going to go. They're going to kick me out. Jack, you need to get one of them big things to cut me off the screen. We're in the same room. Okay. All right. I'm really closing it right now.

Bye. Love you all.