Architectural Apprenticeships Explained: Emily Foster’s Journey at AHMM

Emily Foster, Level 6 Architectural Assistant at AHMM
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Stephen Drew: [00:00:00] Hi everyone. I am Steven Drew from the Architectural Social and I'm lucky to be joined by Emily Foster who is an architectural apprentice at AHMM. Emily, thank you for joining me, especially on a Friday night. How are you?

Emily Foster: No, I'm good. How are you?

Stephen Drew: I'm all right. We're living it up right now, aren't we? So Friday night, I've got nothing here but glasses of water and we're in coronavirus world.

But that doesn't stop the fun happening. We're gonna have a bit of fun anyways.

Emily Foster: Yeah. I thought you were going to say something after that. Oh my,

Stephen Drew: that is the tone of it. There we go. We managed to get our horn in already. Okay. All right. It's Friday night. Friday fun. Friday fun and learning. Do you think that we can do it?

Learning and fun exists. We'll see. We'll see if we can make this fun. So so Emily, I was [00:01:00] curious about the architectural apprentice scheme. So I done my part one and part two back in the old days when dinosaurs were walking the world, I was going to the university in Westminster part one, cause I feel that old sometimes, but basically.

Things have changed since then, things have changed since I've been a part one. And you can do, you can do this kind of a, you can do this apprentice scheme. And I think it's from, from what I can, what I know of the scheme, it seems really, a really interesting way, an accessible way to learn architecture, to practice architecture while studying.

How have you, how, first of all, maybe how did you, what made you decide to study architecture?

Emily Foster: Well, I'm not the sort of person who was like, oh, since when I was three years old, I've always wanted to do architecture. I kind of I mean, when I was 12, I saw Saint [00:02:00] Pompidou and thought, wow, that's amazing. But I didn't think, oh, I can design something like that.

I can go on to do something. I just put aside on pause for a second. And then what, what kind of got me into it was just before going into sixth form, I was very lucky to have an amazing art teacher who literally before we Got into the sixth form. She emailed all the art student students and said, look, there's this program called the accelerate program where UCL and partnered with a bunch of architecture practices to give students from underprivileged, underprivileged backgrounds to show them what architecture is all about and get them interested.

So that's how I met AHMM, the current practice that I'm at. Amazing. They were my mentors. So this is in 2016. [00:03:00]

Stephen Drew: Wow.

Emily Foster: Yeah, so that's how I got. Introduced the world of architecture. It was really amazing. I got to be mentored by two real life architects and Wow. Just go, go into the office and see what it's like.

Look at the like model making workshop. Just have a bit of fun with it really, and like, look, look to see what it's all about.

Stephen Drew: That's, that's fascinating. So you sign up to the Apprentice Scheme and it's almost like going to Hogwarts with the, with the hat that chooses which house you're in. And it's like, you are going to be with AHMM.

And you're like, wow.

Emily Foster: Yeah, that's interesting. I want,

Stephen Drew: that would be pretty cool, actually. Well, do you have any info? Because the thing is, I know AHMM and they're a really successful architecture practice. And actually, any architectural practice that, You're going to be an apprentice with you're going to learn a lot from whether it's a famous one or not.

Yeah. HMM though, is a great company. And so at the time, did you know much about HMM? Well, they, when [00:04:00] they said they were going to be your mentors.

Emily Foster: So, so this is, so 2016, that was when I was mentored by them. It's part of this accelerate scheme and that's when I was first introduced to them. So that's, it's pretty amazing how.

I knew them before, so I, when I decided to apply to an apprenticeship, so this would be years later after A Levels. So normally, to apply to an apprenticeship you would need to have done your GCCs and A Levels, and you apply, you can apply alongside your UCAS so you can apply to do the apprenticeship in the normal route through UCAS and then also apply to an apprenticeship.

So the difference between the apprenticeship and the degree path is so degree you do your three years doing your bachelor's and then going on to do your year out. The apprenticeship route is four years. So you study your degree part time. So I go into university one day a week and then [00:05:00] the rest of the week, four days a week, I work.

So it's pretty nice doing that kind of like seeing the, the two different worlds. So I still get that freedom of doing those more creative things. Like for my last project, I did a, I designed a mushroom farm

Stephen Drew: at

Emily Foster: London South Bank University, where I do the, the My bachelor's and then I get to look at work on real life projects working at HMM.

It's brilliant.

Stephen Drew: Amazing. That's definitely interesting. So I went into architecture, did my part one full time. And I was lucky in third year that I went for, I think it was like three to four weeks at an architectural practice. And you kind of let the ropes out. It was kind of a shell shock. At the time, though, it was definitely a weight to the system.

And then when, then when you go into your part one, it can feel an overwhelming. It can be very [00:06:00] overwhelming because you don't know that world. And it is such a juxtaposition compared to the more theoretical side of studying architecture. Whereas. I imagine what's interesting about your course, it kind of grounds you, right?

So it's not a shock to you at all. So do you find then that you, what you did in practice informed, because you touched upon that you did quite some creative projects, but did the. Did your architecture your experience in architecture inform your academic work?

Emily Foster: Yeah, so, I mean, what's, so as part of the apprenticeship, you're given a mentor at your practice.

So normally you're given a mentor to work with you throughout your whole apprenticeship. Whereas for me because I'm at a big practice, I get to work on different teams as well as different projects. So every six months I switch teams, which I think happens [00:07:00] anyway for people doing their year out or working in architecture practices.

So I switched mentors as well. So I get all these, like, meet all these different people and gain lots of insight from from these different people. And I've also have a network, a kind of network of apprentices at HMM already. So I'm the only level six, so architectural assistant apprentice at HMM.

And there are five five other level seven, five, five to level seven apprentices. So these guys are the ones who do their masters. They're part two and part three through the apprenticeship route. So that's, that's really amazing. I get feedback on my university work as well as like knowing how to work efficiently, like get all this insight from people who have gone through it before.

Stephen Drew: That's interesting. And so you might have touched upon it a bit there. So if you're level six, what's level one?

Emily Foster: Ah, okay. So, [00:08:00] sorry, is that silly? No, it's not silly at all. I didn't know this. Even though if you go through UCAS, you might see, so when people apply, they ask for, oh, what's your level two qualification, level three.

So level two is. GCSE so that's the level two qualification level and then level three is A levels or pre U. I did pre university it's the same and that's there's also an art foundation which I did so I took a year out after doing my A levels because I wanted to gain more experience and I wanted to have that time to do work experience at different practices.

So my mentors were really helpful in that. I got through, through one of them, I got a contact in. Hawkins Brown. So I did one week work experience there and then through just like shit emailing the practices that I liked. I also volunteered at 6A, not volunteered, what did [00:09:00] work experience at 6A architects and 3D read.

So that was really really nice because I think a key thing to do is to know whether you want to work at a smaller practice or a bigger practice because both of those experiences are really different. So for me, for me, I liked have, I mean, I knew HMM, so it was a no brainer to go for them. And I knew that they had a just really nice working environment.

And I knew I could get to see lots of different projects and work on different teams. Whereas for a smaller practice, it's It's, it's rewarding to go for a smaller practice as well, because you get to have more of an overall feel for a project, so you can, you might be able to see a project from start to end, whereas for me, I'm just shifting between lots of different ones.

Stephen Drew: Amazing.

Emily Foster: Yeah. Sorry, what was the original question? Hang on, I might have lost my way a bit.

Stephen Drew: It was the levels. No, you answered it really well. Yeah, you know, you, you did it. You definitely did it. And so, because it's quite interesting, the visual. So you [00:10:00] effectively were, you started your apprentice scheme in 2016.

So, hang

Emily Foster: on, I may have confused it a bit. So 2016. That was my, I had completed GCSEs. I went on to do an Accelerate Inter University Scheme in conjunction with UCL and various architecture practices, including AHMM, and that's how I found out about them. So I had this year long mentoring scheme with them, where I learnt about architecture.

And this

Stephen Drew: is in which year? 2000 and So this

Emily Foster: is 2016.

Stephen Drew: Yeah.

Emily Foster: So I did my A levels for those The two years after completing my A Levels in 2018. I knew about the apprenticeship scheme beforehand. It's right, it was still in its kind of early days. There weren't many apprentices, maybe gone through one cohort.

But I originally was going to go for, I had an offer [00:11:00] at the Bartlett but I didn't make the grades, which I think was the best thing that could have ever happened to me, to be honest, because I had this apprenticeship thing in the back of my mind thinking, oh, really prefer doing that because then I get actual experience and like just really get stuck into it.

So that's how I got into this foundation year afterwards at Ravensbourne University. So this is 2018 was the A level results day. Afterwards, Braven's born. And that's how, and then afterwards, the way the so earlier you were talking about sorting hats how, how you, how they, you decide which practice you go with the whole process.

So the way it works is first you go for your office, so the place you want to work at. So you just apply directly to them or some practices put up adverts saying we're looking for apprentices. But a lot of the time, like all the apprentice people that I [00:12:00] know, mostly approached companies and set informed, like you have to educate, there's a level of education involved here.

We have to educate practices about the apprenticeship explain to them the situation, how great it is. I mean, it really is great. You get paid you're debt free, so you don't. pay student tuition for the university that you go to. So that's, I think, paid by the government. I mean, it's great. I mean, you gain insight to working at an architecture firm and you get to apply that knowledge, the knowledge that you gain from university immediately into practice.

Stephen Drew: It's amazing. Yeah. So hang on. So this is the discovery here. So you're saying that you do not pay 9, it's subsidized by the government because of all the good work you do contributing to the industry, contributing to the wider goods of architecture and construction. Yeah. It's kind of cool. Yeah, it's cool.

Oh, I like it. Oh, I've got to turn my phone off. My phone's on. I'm not very professional, is it? [00:13:00] But I think maybe someone on their phone is equally impressed. Yeah. Impressed by the scheme. That is amazing because that actually, I remember that in the year before me, cause I started in a university in 2006 and they just about introduced the fees up to 3000 pounds.

And I came from humble roots. My parents were really, really supportive of me. They always tried to give whatever they could. I just had still had to do a bit of work. So my part time job while studying architecture was working up waitrose and it was still good experience because you learn stuff and dealing with people.

Yeah. But the apprentice scheme definitely has a lot of value. There's so much value now. So. You're talking to a four year university with 9, 000 parents before you even get going. And so you're alleviated from that because you're jumping straight into the economy and you're helping, you're helping the practice out.

But what is interesting from what you're saying is You've effectively started the job search while [00:14:00] you've been an apprentice, because as you said, you've got to educate companies. And what's interesting is, I agree, if you're not aware of it from their point of view, so what's, there's a few incentives that you highlighted from your perspective in terms of the employer.

I imagine they also get. A for so if there's any employers listening here in terms of the scheme being interesting they get must get is it a tax break as well or they get the government pays towards your salary this is something like that I think

Emily Foster: They they put aside this pot of money that goes towards apprenticeships is I think it's the apprenticeship levy.

And so they have this amount of money that they've put aside. If they don't spend that on having their own apprentices, then that money automatically just zooms off and goes into this massive fossil body that distributes to smaller practices. It's not how small practices are able to have their own apprentices.

Stephen Drew: [00:15:00] Got it. So there's a pot and basically they can take advantage of it or not, and it's there. So it's, so it helps them as a business. And it helps you out. And obviously this is given back to the industry. So yeah, great scheme. And actually from an employer's perspective, why I would be interested in this because in a traditional sense, when you get a part one, there's sometimes a slim chance they've worked part time during their studies, the old fashioned way, which was like, I knew someone that would do a day or two per week, a little bit in the office.

But by and large, an architectural assistant, when they come out, it needs to be trained up anyways. So, and then there's no government part there. So from your, so if I'm an employer, so let me get this straight. So if I'm hiring you as an apprentice, you've already worked in industry because you've done it for how many years, two or three years or something while studying?

Emily Foster: Yeah. So this is, this will be four years. So this is four years for the part one.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, so by the [00:16:00] time you finish, you've got your part one as an apprentice. You have worked four years in the industry. Okay, and so that's a massive advantage. I'd be very inclined to go with you because from putting my employer's hat on, then I would be thinking, Emily, you're quite a safe pair of hands because you're familiar with the culture of an office, the procedures.

And so forth, because there's a lot of things that when, as you know, when you go to an architectural practice, now that as I say, HMM, I imagine a lot of models, a lot of buildings are modeled in BIM. So you understand how to access a BIM model, how not to crash it, how files are set up in the company. How Aaron Perry set up everything, right?

I'm guessing all this stuff, you know, how it all trickles down into how 300 employees organize a practice, you know, liability, you know that drawings need to be signed off. You learn all the things, how [00:17:00] to go about your job, where files are, how to start doing a detail, what are the company procedures.

And they are the things that a traditional part one, like myself, when you join, you kind of have to learn in the first few weeks, which is kind of, which is definitely a system shock. It was for me, you can do it every week. There's so many people that have done it. So you kind of have a step up. But it's not almost like it's unfair because you've worked during it.

You're working. It's not as if, and this is the distinction we got here. So it's a great opportunity point is though you're working right. And so if you're not performing. Then that's not going to work, right? Because they have a choice to keep you or not as well, I'd imagine, isn't it? It's effectively, the apprentice scheme is an employment.

So obviously you want to do well, but what I'm saying is, you're not, it's not like you're rocking in there and opening up the newspaper. You get serious [00:18:00] tasks. So. I mean, so let's not go into any project confidentials or anything like that. In terms of a general sense, though, what kind of projects did you work on?

Have you worked on any big schools or big residential schemes and what kind of responsibilities without, without giving project details away, have you seen as an apprentice so that people can get a flavor of the kind of tasks they work on?

Emily Foster: Yeah. So, I mean, so I've been working for a year, so I'm about to go into my second year.

just begun my second year. I've worked, I've already worked on so many things. So I've worked on like, like master plans, offices, residential like different, different scales as well. So it could be like just like for a group of like four flats maybe, or like massive, like. Residential towers, like it's, it's pretty amazing.

I've worked on like lots of like various things. It's pretty, yeah, it's amazing.

Stephen Drew: That's cool because [00:19:00] that I always I've got a flashback to when I was here in my third year and I, I was, the good thing when you're studying architecture And you kind of touched upon it a bit is that there is something nice about in university being free to do creative projects such as mushroom factory or what have you.

I had a similar thing where these kinetic apartments, but what was hilarious? I look back and I had no grounding or let me rephrase that. It was completely wild. And I wouldn't know where to begin detailing it or how the building stood up. I mean, I got a two one, but. It was that year out in industry afterwards that in my part two, then started to make the, cause let me rephrase it.

So I think it's important to be imaginative. And then in my part two, the buildings were more imaginative yet realistic because in my year, you kind of, you get, you get, you think, Oh my gosh, you can't do that in real life. Or [00:20:00] so it informs it in a way which is stronger and better. That's my opinion. I mean, that's something.

Emily Foster: Oh, sorry. Yeah.

Stephen Drew: No, no, no. Go on. That's good. That's something. That's

Emily Foster: something I I can definitely see in the cohort that I have of apprentices. So at London South Bank University, there are about 20 of us all from different areas of the UK. So there's someone who comes all the way from Durham for that one day a week, although now it's He's probably very happy because we're all doing it from home so he doesn't have to commute.

But yeah, they, there are lots of different expertise. So lots of people are good at Revit, ArchiCAD, because of that that the practicing at work and constantly using it. And I can see that. their designs are more edging towards the realistic, but still really imaginative and amazing. I can definitely see that.

I mean, it's, it's brilliant. And then you've got, what's amazing, what's nice as well is that we get to mix with the full timers as well. So [00:21:00] they, they've got more knowledge perhaps on the theory side and they are, they're more free with it. So we learn from them and then from each other. It's, it's, yeah.

And they learn from us as well. So it's kind of a two way street.

Stephen Drew: That sounds, I mean, to me, it's definitely something I would have seriously considered. And so there must be, because you mentioned the word cohorts and there's more and more people are doing it. So, because the awareness, I never even heard of it.

So from a recruitment perspective, it's only like this year. Really, I'm starting to see people or practices talking about the architectural apprentice. And what was interesting is you're touching upon the bursary that the government has provided. And I've heard that a little bit. What is interesting, though, is that I imagine in the next two or three years, this will start becoming more and more prevalent.

And actually it sounds like a better way of doing things. What I kind of like as well is that you've got options of [00:22:00] imagining the future. you can start people doing it 100 percent theoretical before jumping into practice as well as getting the industry experience. So when do you, do you still have to do a year out then?

Like, like a part one?

Emily Foster: So for me, I don't do a year out because I'm already kind of doing You're

Stephen Drew: already out.

Emily Foster: You're

Stephen Drew: out. Yeah,

Emily Foster: I mean, I guess terms of like recording like, because like in the normal, in the normal one, you have to record everything that you're doing in order for you to be able to do the stage three and not stage three.

And what I'm saying, part three at the end. So for us, we have to record, we have to have 20 percent off the job learning. So that sounds really fancy, but it's basically as long as you go to university, so that's one day of the five day week, so that's 20 percent already, but then you've got the [00:23:00] summer.

Where you're not going to university, but you're still working, so you need to provide off the job learning at, at work. So that's when you put in stuff like CP any CPDs that you've gone to, or even like work shadowing. Or Revit training as well at the moment. I've been doing that and I've got Revit training coming up in a bit too.

So yeah, that's, that's exciting.

Stephen Drew: Well, that's definitely interesting. So you've got masses of, so on one hand we've got massive experience. Let's say in the traditional sense. So we know that being an architect from beginning to end, if you do your year out and then you literally jump on board and do your part three straight away, start to end to become a qualified architect, you're looking at seven years and that's cramming it.

How long would it take to be a qualified architect on the apprenticeship scheme?

Emily Foster: So part one is four years [00:24:00] and then you've got another. Three years to do the Level 7 Architect Apprenticeship. So, that's Same

Stephen Drew: time.

Emily Foster: Oh, is it three years? Oh, no, sorry. I may have, I've got that wrong. It's two years. And then, plus a term of kind of Part time.

Part time stuff.

So, it's roughly the same, but you gain more industry experience.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, which is going to help during the part three exam, probably. So I'd imagine, because the idea when I was moving up part two, before I went through in recruitment, I mean, the idea in your head to build it up a new part three exam is quite, you're like, oh, they're going to ask me all kinds of questions.

So actually the amount of experience you get is really useful. So it sounds. all quite positive to me. You are you enjoying it then so far?

Emily Foster: Yeah, it's really amazing. I mean at the beginning, I remember being really intimidated even though I'd kind of been there before. Just kind of being in the adult environment which is why I think [00:25:00] I definitely recommend doing a art foundation beforehand because it's free and it's just a year of exploring and.

what you want to do and who you are. So I definitely recommend that rather than going straight from a levels to working. Cause I think that's quite a daunting step. So doing, doing that year beforehand really helped to transition. And like everyone at the office is just amazing. Super lovely. I kind of feel like I have a network of mentors.

I can just reach out to anyone and they'd be happy to help. It's really cool.

Stephen Drew: That's so cool. And so it sounds like AHMM are quite a supportive company and your impression in working there, you, you enjoy working with AHMM clearly, right?

Emily Foster: Yeah. I mean, they're also part of the Trailblazer group. So they're part of, they're one of the companies that helped to set it up in the first place.

So they're very knowledgeable about the apprenticeship. So I've got a lot of support from that [00:26:00] angle. So that's, I mean, that's also perhaps something to look at. When, when applying guys,

Stephen Drew: I love it. Yeah, that's interesting. And Simon now there's really heads up. Well, he's a, he's always been quite supportive of students actually, isn't he?

So I think it's, it makes sense that HMM or champion of the way in terms of architectural apprentices. I love this game. I definitely want to see more of it. Well It sounds like you've got no regrets. So would you give it? You touched upon it briefly, a little tip them. And what I found was interesting is that we definitely talked about in terms of you have to have sometimes educate companies and then once they understand the scheme, then they want to take advantage.

Is there any tips that you would give to anyone considering both the traditional route and your routes? Is there any thoughts or tips you'd have there?

Emily Foster: Well, I think you have to consider that. For university, it's quite, it's an [00:27:00] amazing experience to do that the normal route of just going to university for those three years and then doing your, your year out.

Because you get to just fully because I'm at the moment I'm living at home, I'm based in London, so it's quite easy to be able to. commute, well back when we were commuting to HMM so I'm saving a bit of money from doing that. But I guess I'm, what I'm missing out on is that university experience of hanging out with other students, having that kind of university life, maybe living independently if I was going to a university outside of London.

So there's that area of things to think about where I've spent a I think with the apprenticeship, you're able to apply what you're doing in real life situations, so all the, you know that The knowledge and stuff you're learning is real, but you're, you can directly apply it. Whereas maybe at university, you might be it's more maybe theoretical, more like on the creative side, depending on which university you go to, I [00:28:00] think.

Yeah, I think that's the fun thing about university sometimes being able to explore. That's the thing that's missing. I think, I mean, I get to do that on those days at university. So I'm grateful for that. Definitely something to consider guys.

Stephen Drew: Yes. Interesting. You touched upon that, isn't it? So yeah, cause you're effectively working.

I can see what you mean because, and again, I'll get out. If you could see me here, cause I noticed the podcast, I'm getting out my air quotes here, but I've heard alleged things from studying. And I think the first year from certain people's experience, I don't know who that could be. Definitely not me. Is that the first year?

Yeah. You, you do learn and you do all that stuff. But for me, it was a laugh. Oh, I, I said for me, I rumbled myself already. Oh, no. Okay. Maybe I had a bit of fun doing it as well as, as we all did. And there's definitely a case of doing all the architecture, the eye rolls almost of leaving things to the last minute.

[00:29:00] Do, I've definitely spent. Oh, I said it again. I, I might have, I might have definitely, okay, I'll confess. I, in first year, you put things to the last minute. You kind of do all the crazy stuff. You do the print and you do the late nights completely. The opposite way of doing it at the end of my part two.

During my part two, I was definitely on form and I think I did one or two all nighters, but I think for my part one, I did definitely a lot of all nighters, definitely a lot of having fun on campus. And yeah, it's that romance. I know what you're on about. You're saying maybe the downside is you miss the romantic notion of being at uni, being in the dorms, being aloof or, you know, going on that crazy night out or.

talking poetry and having crazy nights staying up till the break of dawn. And yeah, and there is a bit of that, but let me tell you that is definitely a romantic notion and is, and, and bless every student right now who's locked up because of coronavirus. It's [00:30:00] not the, the idea that, that That image or that idea is slowly slipping away.

Yeah, I get what you're saying because I wouldn't have changed mine and I look back and it was fun. At the same time, though, I do think there's definitely a value of working your years out on your years out doing, being an architectural apprentice gives you something which springboards you and your career going forward.

It's almost, it sounds like quite a mature way to do the course to study. Yeah.

Emily Foster: Yeah, I mean, I guess you have to be even more disciplined with your time which is something that you're constantly, like, learning throughout, like doing it, doing the apprenticeship. So balancing your university work with doing with working, because you have to work on your university work in the evenings and the weekends, rather than if you were going to You would have that kind of studio culture.

You would I still have a bit of studio culture when I go into university but you know, you have your dedicated slots where you're [00:31:00] working whereas you have to kind of allocate it yourself in the spare time you have. So that's something else to consider when doing the University, pure university thing versus the apprenticeship route.

So that's, that's something.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, basically. It's not like you can rock up, hangover at 11 o'clock and sneak into the back of the, of the, of the class. You know, if the class is Tuesday and you're at AHMM, it's not a class, it's actually work. And if you rock, and if you rock up, hangover, that's going to be a painful working day for you.

Struggling, dying behind the desk on Revit. Yeah. Okay. So I get it. You it's so the pros and cons pros, massive experience, not really a con, but it's more like you just need to be aware of you're effectively a professional straight away. So you can't, you can't rock up a hangover every day of the week.

Okay, fair enough, really, isn't it? I think so. That's really interesting. And thank you for that. That's been a [00:32:00] marvelous insight. So maybe I'm quite keen to learn one or two things while I got you here. And I really appreciate your time. So you're in, it sounds like you're enjoying it.

And, and you still, you were, you were in the scheme, you were enthusiastic about getting your path free, right? And going the whole way, I'm guessing.

Emily Foster: Well, at the moment, I'm taking it every day as it comes, like every like year as it comes, maybe. I mean, that's another cool thing about the apprenticeship is that after your four years, you might think, Oh, I love this practice.

I'll stay. Or you could go to different practice and do your. Part two slash part three so that's the level seven apprentice apprenticeship at another place so that's that's pretty amazing as well

Stephen Drew: great so i want to make that clear yeah you're not stuck it's like it's but it's basically like a job it's where you want to do you could be like ahmm i've loved part one I'm going to stay.

If you have me, or you could be like, thank you [00:33:00] very much as a, as I think it's important. I see different perspectives, so I know where age may have done it the right way, or maybe I can learn how another company like Hawkins Brown do it a different way. I think that's definitely interesting. All right.

Fantastic. And do you have much time outside of your job and studying or is it full on? You touched upon it briefly when you talked before.

Emily Foster: It's your, it's a full time job in a way because you, you're on. The contract you have to your allocated holiday times the same as any other employee. I mean, I was, I am the sort of person who really likes doing like extracurricular things and like going around doing, doing things.

So I think the other, the other month during August, I went to the Basque country and did this amazing model making course. Wow, really cool. So that was for about a week and that, I found that really [00:34:00] rewarding and I'm, I really feed off doing, doing those sort of things and going to exhibitions and going to art galleries.

And what I find from HMM is that a lot of people who work there are exactly the same. Like they they love, they love going, there are lots of people who love going to These, these different things. We have a sketch club, which is really amazing. We do like so I think we're going to be taking part in Inktober and we're going to be doing it as a group.

So we're going to be meeting up and sharing our drawings. That's a really nice thing about HMM, having that kind of social side. So that was a really important thing for me.

Stephen Drew: That makes complete sense, but look, Emily, I really value all the time you've given, especially when I'm asking all these crazy questions.

You're like, what you want about talking about Hogwarts? So sorry, it was my analogy, but we got, I got there in the end. Thank goodness. Yeah, I've definitely learned a lot. I've learned a lot from this. So if anyone has any [00:35:00] questions or anything, are they okay to message you on the architecture social?

Emily Foster: Yeah, no problem.

I mean, I've, whenever, sometimes whenever I see people who say, Oh, I'm interested in doing apprenticeships, I get in contact with them going, Hey, I'm an apprentice. I can give you lots of information. So I'm more than happy if people message me and say, I'm interested, tell me more. So absolutely no problem.

Stephen Drew: Fantastic. So I really appreciate all the stuff that you're doing on the architecture social as well and you're on LinkedIn for anyone not in the social and they want to listen. So you can, we can find you on LinkedIn or on the architecture social. So Emily, any questions you want to ask me? None.

Emily Foster: Out of curiosity, have, has anyone approached you?

As a recruiter asking about the apprenticeship.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, good question. No, short answer. No, no, no, no architecture, no architecture. But I did have [00:36:00] a so a client that I've known for many years who does construction and, and he mentioned about it. So I think, I think that in construction, it's much wider and it's much more known.

It's much more heard about. And I think in the Arctic, she's trickling in what you will find though. And I talked to this about my team next week. I'm going to, I'm going to do a live webinar where we're going to talk about demystifying recruitment because a lot of people don't understand how it works.

And that makes sense because no one talks about how recruitment works, the good part and the crazy part. So we're going to do that. What you'll find though, as a general rule of thumb, a company will not approach a recruitment consultant for part one positions because their entry roles, and I completely get that as well because the way recruitment works in short is that I'm normally brought on when you in the future are running.

Let's pretend you're, you've [00:37:00] become a healthcare expert and you've got a big hospital and you've got a job coming up and you need to fill your team full of. People and you can probably find an apprentice and train them up, but you need an architect that's done three or four years of hospitals or labs.

And so you'll say, Steve, I need you to find this person with Revit. They need to have that because that's the need. And then I will go fine. That takes X amount of time. If I find this person. Then there is a fee involved because I've gone out of my way and found someone. So recruitment is generally used when there's a particular need or niche.

And so when you've got a part one or an apprentice, they're kind of training you in to what they need is, isn't it? They probably got a project architect or, and a few part twos who help steer you. So that's generally why I don't. I'm not briefed on part one roles is very, very rare. And I haven't been briefed on an architectural assistant sorry, an architectural apprentice.

What I would say is that I, [00:38:00] when discussing recruitment needs, I haven't heard predominantly much talk about architectural apprentice. It's starting to trickle in this year. As in, I'm starting to see a few more architectural practices, advertise architectural apprentices, and start to talk about them when I have a discussion with them on the strategic level.

They'll say, well, we've got this level and we've got so many part twos and architectural apprentices. Now, yeah, that sentence was never there before. It would be architectural assistance. So I think. What is, you hit the nail on the head when we were talking of, I think there needs to be a little bit more work on raising awareness of the apprenticeship scheme.

And actually as a business owner right now in coronavirus world, it's probably really helpful, you know, that this bursary is there. So I think that the need for architectural apprentices will grow more and more. Yeah, [00:39:00] hopefully that gives you an insight and I will, I will go into recruitment. We will talk about recruitment a bit more next week to explain it to everyone.

Awesome. Hopefully that helps.

Emily Foster: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I mean, I don't think I'd, I think you're the first. architecture like recruiter I've been in contact with. Like I didn't, haven't, I'm not really clued up in this kind of world. So

Stephen Drew: Yeah. And that's, it makes sense. And I truth be told, even when I was part one and a part two, I never used a recruitment consultant, nor do you need to as a part one.

And recruitment consultants, you get more and more experience with down the line a few more years in your career. And normally it would be, let's hypothetically say in the future, you've worked in a company for a few years and you might find that You're looking for a particular different set of skills.

So you might be working on certain projects or maybe let's pretend you're working in a [00:40:00] different practice in the HMM because there's a completely different company you've gone to and you've been working long hours, which you've done because you've got good experience. But now you're, you have a family in the future, Emily, and you're thinking, I can't do them hours anymore.

I need to go to somewhere which works less hours. And. Some more that can build upon the sectors and that's what normally I would come in, we would speak and I'd go, okay, you, you know, this, these famous architectural practices, you're still going to get the long hours and based upon your sectors and the software you've got, have you thought about.

These companies and they could be Joe blogs, one to the Dan, you might go to them and then you look and then I have to tell you a bit about the company culture and we work out where you live. We work out and we go through the whole matchmaking process. Now, in coronavirus world, it is a bit more difficult because.

Before, yeah, it is what was called [00:41:00] a candidate's market. Now, a candidate is a term used, it sounds a bit like Alan Sugar on The Apprentice, and that's what it is. Candidate, client. But in short, what it meant is before coronavirus Stay now, you keep going the way you're going and you have all this experience, then in a nice way, when you come out, you've got a choice of where you want to go.

Now it's a lot more difficult as in a client can be an architectural practice can be very free. Strict upon their requirements and they, because there's more people looking. So if a company is in a particular, in a point to hire someone, they can, they have a lot of choice. And so things have changed and recruitment's changed for that.

And so before it was working out a person's needs and identifying a few companies for it. Now it's what I do is I work with a client and I have to. Go out and find exactly what they want, and [00:42:00] that can be difficult right now because you can speak to talented people and I have to say, I have to be truthful and say, I don't have a role for you right now.

And that doesn't mean that the person's not good. They can be amazing. Unfortunately, though, because of the requirements right now. It may, if, if you haven't worked for three years on hotels, you might not get the role. And so generally that's how recruitment works right now. So next week I'll go into it in more detail.

Now, the best thing that you said along that vein in this podcast, which was interesting is that you effectively have done the role of recruitment for yourself. You have to educate the client on architectural apprentice is, you know, there's, there's Business incentives for doing it and the way it works is X, Y, Z.

So they, they, they benefit from what the government's doing and they get [00:43:00] you on board. And that education is key. Cause at first I imagine some of the reactions are Oh, we, we don't do that. I'm sorry. And that's not because they're being rude or anything. They just don't know. Yeah, they just don't know.

Emily Foster: I mean, with HMM, I was lucky in the fact that they knew.

They knew already. They were part of creating the whole thing. They knew. And when I was looking up typing in Architectural Assistant Apprentice on Google, there weren't many adverts back, back when I was typing that in, I think PDP was another one that knew about it. But I think the best way to do it is to get work experience first and like kind of get your foot in the door and kind of see if you like the practice have a feel and then maybe at the end of the work experience going, Hey, there's this apprenticeship.

Would you be happy taking me on? So I think that's the kind of. route to go for, because if you think about it, these guys, they're taking on someone with no, no experience. They've, they've just come [00:44:00] out of A levels maybe foundation year, if they're lucky. So I think doing work experience beforehand, like, it's definitely, definitely helps.

And like, not necessarily the big ones, or if, if they're not advertising, just shoot them an email, and just Inform them that way.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, that makes complete sense. Cause one of the, a few of the, the, the kind of the webinars that I did on the social during this time was talking to people about trying to get industry experience because.

Then what you're doing is you're showing that you've worked in a practice. You're showing that you understand how an architectural practice is set up. And basically what you're doing there is you're de risking yourself. And so with you yourself, when you've done work experience at AHMM, there's that element of.

Yeah, you make, you obviously you try and make a good impression. And so let's say you do that from an employee's perspective. If I'm hiring, I'd be like, okay, [00:45:00] Emily's already worked you for three weeks on Jeff's team. Jeff, what was Emily like? Yeah, she was good. She was really good. And you go, Oh yeah, let's get Emily in.

This takes the sting out of it because you then a known quantity. And when I say quantity, I don't mean like ones and zeros. Of course, with people, what I mean is they know. That you have, you are reliable in some shape or form because you've already gone in there, you've proven your worth and you understand architectural practice.

You understand a bit more and therefore that's, that's kind of inching you towards it. So that's one of the massive gains I think with this apprenticeship scheme is that you're effectively getting yourself in the door, you're effectively de risking yourself. But it's not all doom and gloom. If you think, if you're on a part one and you're like, Oh no, why did I not do the premise?

No, don't worry, you can still do it. And you've got to remember what you're saying is the pros and cons. So if you're on a part one, you've had three years to have a bit of a giggle. You've had three years to [00:46:00] learn to be super hypothetical. And okay, when you jump into practice, you can have a shell shock for a week or two.

Okay, pros and cons, that's what you're saying, isn't it? Whereas in your world, you're going to be a bit more souped up ready for practice because you've been there. What was interesting and quite humble was what you're talking about of, maybe do I not have that campus feel? And so always pros and cons with everything.

So it's all about looking forward. And what we're saying is if you're the kind of person that wants to jump in, then Emily, you're giving the scheme a thumbs up. from your experience. Yeah,

Emily Foster: 100%. And also, if you're a part one and you think, oh, I haven't done the apprenticeship, you could always do the apprenticeship for your part two slash part three.

So I mean,

Stephen Drew: I

Emily Foster: said it earlier,

Stephen Drew: I'm just, I think it's because there was so much info. Yeah. Cause I, yeah. Okay. So you can, you can elect to do it for your part too.

Emily Foster: So, yeah. So your part, part one level six architectural assistant apprenticeship, then [00:47:00] you can do two, two years. of your level seven architect apprenticeship.

So there are I think five, five of them at my, my practice. And I'm the only kind of bachelor's level, level six apprentice. So you could always do it afterwards. So you can have both best of both worlds, really. You can have that university experience and then go on to do the apprenticeship.

Stephen Drew: Okay, cool.

So you can, you can go, I just know what I'm going to do my part to that. That is really interesting. And I think it clearly, my brain is shutting down around me. It's like, Oh no, Steven, wake up, Steven, Drew, Steven, Drew. Hello. I'm falling asleep on this keyboard right now. And then half the podcasts have been me snoring, but no, that's really, really interesting.

I just, sometimes what it is, I think what it is, is get in my head around it. And it's, I'm so. intrinsically bashed into my head, the old formula that this new formula, [00:48:00] it's actually quite straightforward. Now you mentioned it and I am surprised how flexible it is. So I really love that. So thank you, Emily.

I really appreciate it.

Emily Foster: Thank you. And

Stephen Drew: we all know where to find you. I'm going to go and wake up, have a coffee on a Friday night. Thank you so much, Emily.