Is This For Me? Ten Tips On Finding Your Fit With Studio Culture, Ft. Julia Nicholls

Is This For Me? Ten Tips On Finding Your Fit With Studio Culture, Ft. Julia Nicholls

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Stephen Drew: [00:00:00] Hello everyone. Dry January. If you're drinking already, you're a very naughty boy or girl, but I won't judge you for me. I'm sober, Joe. We're gonna get this show on the road. Don't worry. It's been a long day. Blue Monday's gone. I don't know what it is. Thursday. Thursday, damn. Not living up to the old, uh, gray Jan theme.

Anyways, well will be revealed in 15 seconds. Woo. Who's still on LinkedIn at this time? I wonder. I'm glad you here anyways. 3, 2, 1. Woo. Hello everyone. Thank you for tuning in. If you do have that alcoholic beverage, I'm not gonna judge you, but don't worry, I won't be sleeping at the wheel. Julia, my guest might have a little, little, little taste of something over here.

on non-alcoholic or no, I don't know. But [00:01:00] anyways, I should probably introduce this show. Welcome everyone to the Architecture Social, and we are gonna go deep, deep and talk about, is this for me? What do I mean by that? 10 tips that Julia here has on finding your fit in studio culture? Cuz I always think that when you're going for a job, you are always thinking about impressing that company.

You are worried about what they're gonna think about you, however, We're gonna talk about is it Right for you? And going through that search. And this was Julia's amazing idea. So Julia Nichols, welcome to the stage. How are you? ?

Julia Nicholls: I am good, thank you. Thank you very much.

Stephen Drew: Virtual round of applause. .

Julia Nicholls: Uh, yeah, no, I'm really, really good.

Thank you. I think it's, it's a really important, uh, thing to discuss that, you know, uh, an [00:02:00] interview is a two way, um, thing. You should be finding the right fit for you. They should be finding the right fit for them. So I, I guess today is about helping people work out how to find their fit.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I think you're right.

And, and to how people. Fit. Julia, I know what you've done in industry, but for those who might not know you yet, can you tell everyone about all the wonderful things you've done in the industry? .

Julia Nicholls: Okay. Um, so I am a communications strategist. Uh, I've worked with Architect very for 20 years. Helping them to kind of communicate with their clients with a wider industry, with their, uh, community around them.

And, uh, really just, you know, working with startups to really establish studios. Um, I think communications has to be really authentic to each practice and backed up with evidence and activity. There's no point in having really great messaging if you're not actually doing that work as well. And [00:03:00] for those 20 plus years, have mostly been in practice.

I've only been a consultant for two years. Mm-hmm. , so I've been a part of. You know, a culture or several cultures and, and sort of been on that journey. Um, I've experienced the sort of culture and the social life from being a graduate and a sort of young employee hungry to make a good impression. Yeah. Um, you know, I've then become a parent.

I've now, I guess what you term midlife? . There's just week old. Um, and I, and I've sort of experienced from all levels of management. You know, I sort of, I left, uh, my last practice as a director, so I've been sort of like a participant and I've also been kind of responsible for creating and, and sort of nurturing culture.

And now as a consultant, I guess I get to speak to a lot practices about what they do, uh, to sort of create a culture or not. Um, yeah, so

Stephen Drew: brilliant. I think that's super cool and helpful for this topic to be someone that's done the [00:04:00] job, but also someone who, you know, you've got to that management level cuz you can see both sides of the coin because, and it's, it's, I think when you are on one side, Is you think, oh, we should be doing this and that.

But when, when you've actually been a manager as well, sometimes you know, certain things come to light that you think, oh wow, definitely there's a reason why that didn't happen.

Julia Nicholls: And I think how your experience of culture kind of changes according to like, you know, the, the position you're in, in your, in your kind of career, but also in your life.

You know, different bits will be more important than others at different life stages. And I think very much people create a culture like a company has to invest in setting a framework, making time and resource available to kind of create a culture. But then it's the culture plus the employees that kind of have an active role in making that culture come alive.

And for me that's. , it's absolutely essential that a company needs to listen to and [00:05:00] understand the people in their organization to know that they're going to create a culture that people are gonna want to engage in. Um, mm-hmm. , you know, you, you've got to know your people and know your audience. Um, it, it shouldn't feel like something that's imposed on you by a single person's kind of, you know, want of what a culture should be.

It really needs to be felt by the, the whole company and the team.

Stephen Drew: Very cool. Now I was, I was just thinking while you, because you've sent me this awesome list that you've curated. So we've distilled all those years of knowledge, Dan, so I'm gonna bring up number one actually. So I'm just typing away, I promise Julia, I'm not distracted.

I'm, I'm in the room. I was just doing it as we go. And number one, that you put down on these 10 tips of finding your fit within studio cultures was values and purpose. Now, that could mean a di few different things and different contexts to different people, but what's, what's your. Understanding of value and purpose.[00:06:00]

Julia Nicholls: Yeah. So I mean, to start off with, I think purpose and values as well as culture for me is the starting point of every communication strategy I work on. I, I couldn't create, uh, a strategy without knowing all of, all of those three things. For me, values and purposes is the why of a company. It's the reason, uh, that they set up practice.

It's the driving force behind the work that they do. It's not just a manifesto that sits as text on a website page. It's something that is deeply felt and is consistently evidence and action. So some practices are very clear about their purpose and values. Um, it's basically about clean, being clear about what you do, but more importantly why you do it.

So if I'm thinking about, uh, building sustainably with like, you know, timber and hybrid structures, one of the first practices that comes to mind is Walton. And if you look at Wal Thistleton, you'll see that they are. Consistently talking about why it's so important, what the benefits are. If I'm thinking about [00:07:00] practices that might improve the quality of social housing, I'm thinking immediate of people like Bell Phillips, Pitman Toes, ao, those practices that are always talking about their why.

So sometimes it's easy to find values and purpose, sometimes it's not. Um, you can look for things like what kind of clients are they working for, um, and organizations, you know, are those clients and organizations that you want to be working for? Are there any kind of, uh, ethical issues there in terms of regimes, uh, or organizations that you don't think fit with, you know, who you would be comfortable working with?

Um, and also that, that applies to projects. So, uh, you know, would you be comfortable, uh, working on an airport, for example, in a sort of, you know, climate crisis? Um, uh, one of the high profile, uh, projects at the moment is the neon projects in Saudi Arabia. , you know, that's picking up a lot, a lot of stick of, uh, people are calling it an ecological and moral atrocity, but for others it's a real innovative challenge, [00:08:00] uh, in engineering and in Architecture.

So, you know, just thinking, w would you be comfortable in that scenario? Um, thinking about the accessibility and the affordability of the Architecture being created there. Um, so yeah, those are the kind of things I would be thinking about in terms of values and purpose. Where does that practice sit, um, in, in the sort of industry and, and what do they really believe in?

Stephen Drew: Very interesting. And also just to add to that as well, it's probably this list, a lot of it as well. It, it can go a two way thing. Like I think values and purpose is a good middle ground perhaps in an interview to, to talk about. And I think it really helps the Architectural practice know that you, you've considered the company seriously.

Yeah. If you've read those values and purposes and, and maybe there's some common ground. , then that can kind of break the ice a little bit. I mean, have you seen examples on that when you've been the hiring manager for your team? Is that something you, you've looked for [00:09:00]

Julia Nicholls: yourself? Yeah, I think, uh, definitely because I think that like having shared purpose and values is a real motivator.

Yeah. So, you know, I, I think someone's way more likely to stay in the job and see their career in that company if they really have aligned values. Um, so definitely for me that would be, uh, a, a kind of tick in the box if, if, you know, there was evidence on both the people and the practices side, um, of a shared purpose.

Stephen Drew: Nice. I, I think that makes complete sense. Do you know what I'm gonna put in number two here? I should have done this before, but we, we'll do it live anyways. It's No problem. ways of working. Yeah. And that's really interesting. How would one. Find ways to work in, is it asking in the interview or

Julia Nicholls: There's a few strands to this.

There's, there's some kind of like top level ones. Like what's the business structure? Is it an employee ownership trust, a partnership? You know, who are the shareholders? That, that kind of, uh, a [00:10:00] very sort of top, um, section. Then there's like a leadership, you know, is it traditionally hierarchical? Is it more collegiate?

Is it a practice that needs to be thinking about succession bearing in mind that succession takes sort of five plus years? Yeah. Um, you know, it, it's a perfectly reasonable question to ask, uh, if you think it applies to that practice. Also, the management of projects. So how are different aspects of Architecture managed in that practice?

Do they have a kind of front end concept team and then a different team for delivery? You know, is that how you want to work or do you want to see a project through right from the start to the finish? Mm-hmm. . Um, how do they value the sort of design process? Is, are they more sort of on commercial programs where the, you know, delivery comes really quickly or do they make time for experimentation and, you know, is that something that you want to be doing in practice?

Uh, does their process involve community engagement or working with young people? Those are the kind of things that if they're fundamental to you, I you'd wanna see they're fundamental to the practice you're [00:11:00] working, uh, for. And then I think management of people is another side of that, obviously ways of working, being, you know, what does your ideal working week look like?

Is it full-time, part-time, flexible hybrid, all in the studio. And again, I think at different life stages, you might wanna do more or less time in the studio. Um, so, you know, and this is a real kind of hot topic in the industry at the moment, because there are practices that will not evolve at all to allow, uh, any kind of hybrid working.

And there are others that have almost gone completely the other way. And it's not to say there's a right way or wrong way, but you've gotta find your fit. Um, so yeah, I think those would be the aspects of, of ways of working I'd be thinking about.

Stephen Drew: Very cool. And it was interesting as, as you expanded on the answer, you are right.

There's. , you know, what are IPA stages? There's the kind of approach to designing, but then as you said, it's the logistics, isn't it? It's like, how do does one go about it? Like, uh, JTP is very community driven. The [00:12:00] teams are all built around that. But then also, you know, on the other end, it's like what's the actual job gonna like at the, what are the hours you will laugh?

Um, today was, um, because I've hired someone, we were talking a little bit about it before Julia, you know, the Architecture, Social is expanding, but it was our first day working remotely. And so our ways of working are in development , right? But, um, rather than thinking, do you know what, everything wasn't perfect today.

No, we're not gonna go back in the office. It was like, well actually we've got to learn how to get better in that way of work. I mean, um, and a quick one, maybe before we move on, before I get the next point up. Um, well, it actually ties in nicely with this. I what I was gonna say, you've got point number three actually is studio and studio in 2023.

I mean, there'll always be an office , there will always be a culture. [00:13:00] It's true studio, it's, it's, it's physical and now it's slightly meta on teams and this and that and so forth. But what's your, you mentioned in terms of the top 10 tips to look for in the right fit. Why is studio so important?

Julia Nicholls: I think, uh, particularly when, when you're looking at studio culture.

Yeah. The feel that you get from a studio environment. Really says a lot and how you can evidence, like, you know, who's working there. Does it seem accessible and friendly? Do people seem happy? Uh, you know, do you think you'd be able to work kind of, um, you know, collaboratively in that environment? Um, this is obviously gonna be different depending on how often people are in the studio or is it in a kind of WeWork type of space, uh, where it's more difficult to sort of, you know, create your own environment.

Um, but I guess, you know, firstly I'll be thinking about location. So, you know, does it suit you that, you know, there's now a sort of growing trend for actually, uh, architects to be based more in like [00:14:00] neighborhoods, you know, even suburban neighborhoods, uh, you know, rather than all in bunched together in Calwell or whatever.

Um, you know, how does that work with you? Uh, you know, someone's awkward neighborhood to get to is actually somebody else's total dream location. So thinking about will you take public transport cycle to walk, how will that impact your experience of working there? Um, if you are gonna be cycling there, do they have showers and changing and storage?

Also, do they have space for, you know, a kitchen to prepare food or just heat up some food? Is there communal dining? So that kind of environment, does it feel welcoming? Does it feel like somewhere that uh, you could just be comfortable being you, you know, talk about this or bringing your authentic self to work?

Do you feel like you could be yourself in that space? Um, and also like something I think would be really important is can you see spaces to do focused work but also collaborative work or be social because, you know, you no longer need [00:15:00] to come to an office just to sit at a desk all day. That's, you know, we can do that at home.

So you are actually going to the studio for other reasons. Does the environment support you doing those other activities, social and collaborative? . So I guess that those, those are the kind of physical studio things, assuming that there is a physical studio, which I, I think to be honest, like in my opinion, I, I feel it's a shame not to have any kind of studio at all.

Um, I think culture, you know, it sort of comes from being together. Um, so I, I'm I in this, in this context, I'm assuming there is some kind of studio .

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I, I agree. Well, I, I've been making these decisions very recently and I kind of went from, well, we can do a bunch of it remote, and then now I'm going into the office and I, I agree with you.

There is something nice about being together. You've got the comradery. There's something nice about being in a space where you can like, you know, tangibly touch stuff and be close with one another. At the same time [00:16:00] though, I think, like you said, studio environment flexibility. Flexibility is a key. And, um, I think employers have to embrace flexibility.

It's not going away and yeah, I, I probably think like maybe the old garden stuff are trying to get people back in the office four to five days a week. They probably lose out a lot of people. Yeah. They.

Julia Nicholls: They do. Yeah, no, I mean, I, I completely agree. I think if you're not going to evolve, you are, you are going to, you know, slice off, um, a huge amount of potential employees who, you know are, you know, there's a lot of talent there that you are discounting out.

Um, and I definitely feel that, you know, a studio's important, but I also strongly feel you don't need to be there all the time. I think that that, that, that's a management issue of when do people need to be in and, and when do they not need to be in.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I agree. And be before we moved on to the next point, I'm glad you touched upon something.

You know, you're a proud mother, you have a family, and my experience before Julia [00:17:00] is that I would meet really amazing architects or, or even people at different points in their career where they've gotta look after someone or they've just had their firstborn child or whatever. And Yeah, kind of, it's a bit of a strange situation before because it was like, oh, you have to be in the office by nine because everyone else is so.

Basically people's careers were kind of put on hold and Yeah. Which is, which is a shame. Whereas now I think people are starting to realize, well, hang on. You know, if we start doing things remote and flexy, then you can make something work for everyone. Have you seen a big change on that side?

Julia Nicholls: Um, uh, yeah.

I mean, I'd, I'd like to have seen more of a change, um, but, but it's definitely changing and I think the younger practices, it's just a given. Yeah. Um, I also think very strongly that you don't need to, you know, you don't need to ha start a family to want some flexibility. Uh, you know that you have other things going on in your life that are important to you.

So obviously starting a family [00:18:00] is a really big moment, but there are other big moments and big priorities that you could have in your life that just mean you want some flexibility. Um, so yeah, I think, I think it's really important.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, well said. And I, well, well, I've got the next tip coming up. Um, I was just gonna say that we've got one or two little comments coming in from the lovely audience, those who are on LinkedIn at this time of night.

I applaud you. , lovely to see you. AO says, totally agree. Have to admit I'm going to start in a co-working space now and then to mix things up and to see people more. Well, I tell you what, if you are in WeWork, Waterloo, come join me. So those are pool tables and stuff, and that's where I am at the moment.

Although, although that might distract you because I am quite loud and Welsh, but somehow in that WeWork, it's so loud that I, you don't hear me, which is amazing. Normally. Normally it's the other way round and I was distracting people in the [00:19:00] studio and causing loud internal communication. , this is, that's probably not what you meant though when you put this point.

Um, I'm dying to. , uh, what, why you fought number four. Internal communication was a good tip that people should look out for. Or

Julia Nicholls: I think you could probably do a whole episode on internal communications, but I've, I've whittled it down. In fact, I, like you shared a stats earlier this month, Stephen, about transparency.

You said 96% of job seekers say transparency is really important to them. True. Yeah, and I think, um, it, I completely agree. It's really, really important. It's also, I think, worth saying a fairly new or sort of recent management consideration. I think if you were managing. 10, 20 years ago, no one expected transparency.

And so it's almost something that has to be learned of, like, you know, what are the boundaries to transparency. But I do think there's [00:20:00] a real benefit to bringing people on the journey with you of running a business, of winning new work, um, of, you know, taking, taking the practice forward. I think with all the employee ownership, trust and all this kind of thing, you know, people want to feel invested, and if they don't, they're gonna be more likely to move off and try and find that somewhere else.

So I think transparency is really important. Uh, so things like open forums, um, this is something to think about if you are, if you're in a studio at the moment as well, not necessarily looking for work and thinking, how, how could we, how could we do this better? Um, you know, Architecture's such a slow game.

You could be on a project for years without sort of working on anything else. So it's really nice to know what else is happening in the business that might be quite exciting that, you know, could be the next thing you work on. So what are kind of project wins or, you know, competitions that are happening?

Um, what's the strategy for kind of, you know, the, the business moving forward or communications or succession as we spoke about earlier, [00:21:00] all these things that people might actually be interested in outside of their particular project. Mm-hmm. and then transparency in terms of, uh, sort of coming back to values and things, but you know, are there focus groups for perhaps skills and training that people might need?

This often needs to be fed from the bottom to the. In terms of where things are moving and what they might need up-skilling in, you know, are there sort of diversity and inclusion focus groups or like a social focus group that that kind of, you know, bring that side of the culture forward? That's, that's the sort of internal communication that I was thinking about in terms of if you're in practice or you're looking at a practice.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I think that's a really good point and I, I like what you said that these tips could be used to improve cultures, but also maybe they, things that you haven't thought about and maybe it could set off some alarm bells or things you should think about. Cuz sometimes when you get an environment, you, you're taking it for a given, you know, I remember when I [00:22:00] went into a new office,

I'm like, really? Is this person saying that? That's just, and then you go, oh, that's just what they like. And

Julia Nicholls: I know Yeah. You, you get sort of, I totally agree. Oh, it's just the way it is here. And you think, well, you know, there should be an openness to, you know, from management to listen to younger people because, uh, the people who won't listen to younger people won't evolve.

And we, we know what happens to those companies. Yeah,

Stephen Drew: a hundred percent. I, I think it, it makes complete sense. And also now I'll tell you the last point on that before we move on to a big one. Number five's pretty big. I keep everyone, it is . Well, internal communication though is it's, it's also not just about what said, it's all the vehicles, isn't it?

And it gets confusing there with teams and you got Slack and Zoom and, and WhatsApp groups. So it, it can get pretty messy. I, um, so when, uh, I'm trying to work out the right kind of balance as well. . It's

Julia Nicholls: a really good [00:23:00] point. Yeah. I mean I think you could do a whole show on it. Um, uh, yeah. How sort of, you know, how to sort of streamline it a little bit more so that people feel involved but not like overwhelmed with information.

Stephen Drew: Yeah. And you also want like, place to blow off steam, you know? Yeah. And, and, and I think that's quite important. How do you emulate that kind of kitchen coffee shop, uh, nonsense that one or two people talk to each other on online? It can be quite a tricky one. Yeah. Cuz definitely today on my first working from home experiment, well I still think it was really good and it's quite nice.

Maybe it's peaceful to do certain things. I did miss the fun, the banter, you know what I mean? So, yeah. Yeah. There's only so much a gif can replace, you know, rather than people. , I will move on to the next point now, which is , like a 70, 80% of the content on the Architecture Social. So good luck summarizing it very quickly, , but I agree it's really important, career [00:24:00]

Julia Nicholls: progression, really important.

So, oh, there's so many things we can say here. I'm gonna start with, are there regular structured performance reviews? Um mm-hmm. Remember, again, these are a two-way process. Any decent employer is gonna want to know how you are doing and feed that back, but also how they are doing. How's your experience? Um, and in terms of like setting goals and following up on those goals, you know, there, there should be notes written that you can come back to.

Yeah. Um, I'm, I'm a really big champion of, of those really structured and recorded, uh, reviews because things can easily get forgotten. Um, and I think it really does help motivate, um, if you are still qualifying, what kind of support is there? Uh, informal or formal, so kind of part three peer groups, which may be led by somebody in practice or actually it could just be, uh, peer group.

Um, you know, just supporting each other in that way. Do they engage with [00:25:00] apprenticeship schemes? Is there any mentoring or reviews? Again, just informally that if you're doing a part three and you just wanna run through with someone, is there somebody there assigned or just somebody Yeah. You know, friendly that you can talk to, to get a bit of a steer.

Um, How do they invest in sort of upskilling people when you know, new software technology? Are they, are they willing to send people on training courses or to get somebody in to do like a bulk, uh, training, uh, and also management training? I think this is really important, and it may not be for you yet, but your managers who maybe have been an Architect and they've suddenly been promoted to a sort of people management role, are those people being trained to manage people?

Because I think you'll find most often they won't and they really should be because that's a completely different skillset. That's not what you learn at Architecture School. But if you are in charge of managing people, I think that that you, you really should be trained in some way. And there are programs, um, there's a one called the Step Up program, which is really [00:26:00] coaching people into managing people when you're actually a creative yourself.

If they don't do that, it's gonna lead to a very poor support for their staff and, and possibly a rapport experience. Um, and the other thing I think is worth, I, I've seen this be a problem in, in other practices where, you know, is the practice open to you, uh, being somebody perhaps outside of management, attending industry events or taking opportunities.

So, you know, there's a lot of, uh, next gen networking opportunities. Uh, would your firm be happy to, uh, you know, pay for your tickets to go to those events? Um, if you said, look, I've been asked to join a design review review panel, or I've applied and got accepted, would they be happy to let you do that in work time because it is actually beneficial to you in the practice if you are invited to quit or do a kind of occasional teaching role.

How supportive is your practice of that? Uh, those are the kind of things that I think, uh, you know, if, if [00:27:00] they're important to you, if, if being like saying part of academia is important to you, those are the kind of things that I think, um, you should be thinking about with career progression. Yeah,

Stephen Drew: exactly.

And uh, I think if you asked to go to an event or on a topic which could help improve yourself and by effect of that, improve the company and the company says no, but kind of have some puffs or complaints that you're not, you know, you're interfering. If that's a pattern of things that going on, you're right.

It's probably not a progressive environment, which is really short term because I'm always amazed, like the employer will always get something out of it. And if, for instance, like London Build Expo, I popped out there last year and it's like, oh, I'm a bit tired. Should I do it? Will it be good for me? Will it be good for the business?

I'm not too sure. You know, when you go to these things, you make so much connections, you learn so much. And like you said, Maybe been involved in Grasshopper Group or the BIM London circuit. Yeah, you're gonna learn really [00:28:00] cool stuff. It's gonna make so much network and it is great for the company outward facing person.

Isn't it great when your employees are knocking around meeting people and talking about how good the company Yeah. So there's load, there's load of benefits, I think, you know? Yeah,

Julia Nicholls: definitely. I think it's a win-win, but I've definitely seen practice be like, no, you need to be at your desk, you know, working on this project.

And, and I agree with you. It's really shortsighted.

Stephen Drew: Yeah. And, and the last thing I'd add to that before we move on, is that career progression doesn't necessarily need to be expensive in, in that sense. You know, it can be everything from a linked. Cause all the way up to, yes, okay. Proper career progression.

But actually a lot of it is even simpler stuff like taking the junior staff members to a site visit, they're gonna learn a lot, they love it. You're gonna go there anyways. And it's those little things like that and that really key people being [00:29:00] excited if they've been behind the computer for a while, going on site and kind of going there with someone you look up to can be a total thrill and you know, okay, take a camera and send them to the marketing department.

Win, win, win. Exactly.

Julia Nicholls: Yeah. I think it's thinking about their journey, you know, making sure everyone's having a good journey in your company and then they're more likely to, you know, want to stay and continue. ?

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I think so. Okay. Now this is Ja. I'm, I'm super impressed by it. This is, this is all Julia's work, everyone.

I'm just that . I look like I've written all these and I'm organized, but it's, this is all Julia. So the next point that you've, um, put down, which is really important, uh, is inclusion Now. Yeah. I find that people struggle to unpack this. Um, or sometimes it, it's such an overwhelming topic that people shy away with it.

What's your [00:30:00] experience on inclusion then, Julian?

Julia Nicholls: So, I mean, for me, I think that, , uh, you know, it, it can be a topic that, as you say, it feels too big to some practices. You know, they're sort of like, look, you know, we try and, you know, uh, you know, put, put words in our, uh, adverts that, you know, will, we hope will attract to diverse candidates, and then it just doesn't happen and da da da.

But for me, first thing I'd be looking for in a company is representation. So, uh, you know, are there black and Asian architects? Are there, uh, women in management positions, uh, or, you know, anyone with a disability work there and across the studio from junior staff to management, I'd be looking for representation.

That's your first, first sort of step. Yeah. If this seems like a practice who is finding representation a challenge, then I would definitely want to know what they're doing about it. Firstly, Uh, training programs and, you know, there's a lot of consultancies and [00:31:00] workshops available on kind of equity, diversity, and inclusive culture change.

So there's, there's n nothing stopping anyone from learning what they could be doing more of to increase representation in their firm, but also in the industry. And also challenging themselves to think about is the environment we have here welcoming to everybody? Is it an inclusive, uh, environment and culture?

Uh, so there's nothing stopping anyone doing that. Um, and then I think, again, do they engage with any initiatives that encourage diversity in the industry? Uh, again, of which there are so many that you could literally just plug into. So no one's saying you have to set up your own, uh, you know, um, program.

You could do open city accelerate, R O b A, future architects, uh, building Futures reset. Go. You could, if, if you felt like, okay, look, we don't have the time, you could just give to a burst. You like the neighborhood scholarship fund, so, There's really, uh, nothing stopping you from doing your bit to increase [00:32:00] representation in the industry.

Um, so those are definitely questions that I would be asking in an interview. If I couldn't see representation, then I would be asking sort of, you know, what, what are they

Stephen Drew: doing? Yeah. Makes sense. This list has, I think, is also quite poignant time for. Who's trying to build up my team, so thank you for this.

It's like getting a, a coaching session myself. It's just, it's just, I can't see any downside of why you wouldn't be inclusive, but it is absolutely Madden and Julia that we still have to put it here because there is such a long way to go still, isn't it? And I'm like, you, yeah. I go look on some websites and you've got some amazing ones and there's some great companies who are really inclusive and talk about going that way.

And then I, oh, there's the old school, you know, there's a running joke, isn't it, of like 10 50 year old, you know, gray head, white blokes and, okay. But you gotta mix it up a bit. You, as you said, you, you want, you want different [00:33:00] perspectives. Yeah. You want to balance, you know, it's very important to me. I wouldn't want a bunch of men because that's just one direction that the company's going in, right?

We have to. be inclusive. And also, you know, times are changing. I'm hopeful as well. I'm starting to see different people going into Architecture. It isn't such a middle class perceived profession. There's nothing wrong with being middle class. What I mean is it's really opening up now, isn't it? And I think that as well, employers need to appeal to everyone because, you know, it's 2023.

Do I really wonder work in a non-inclusive environment? Yeah, probably

Julia Nicholls: not. And again, like a bit like they're not offering flexible flexibility in terms of working. Yeah. These firms are missing out on a whole traunch of, of talent coming through the system who are gonna look at their website and their, you know, like you say, uh, you know, lineup of.

[00:34:00] Bold white man and just be like, no, that's not for me. And that's their loss. So, you know, you Yeah. I think, you know, that practices really need to make a good, decent effort to do their bit.

Stephen Drew: Yeah. And there's nothing wrong of old grain white men. Cause I will be 1, 1 1 day. So don't worry. Uh, we are just, we are just making an extreme point to kind of, uh, um, you know, illustrate the, the problem and where we're going with the solution.

Brilliant. So I've got the next one, which actually I think is going in the right direction. However, it's going, it's going in the right direction from quite a dire place. Now I often Julia use the, I think of. Architect's Architect, it's like the fountain pen. You know that old film where the guy passes out after basically doing the model and staying up all night and saving the day.

And there is that [00:35:00] romantic notion in Architecture of, we must do what it takes because the Architect knows best, or we have to save the day, and so forth. But it's often at the cost of your own personal. , you know, wellbeing, you know, it's a, it's a definitely and it's a price that adds up over time. What's your thoughts and observations on wellbeing?

Julia Nicholls: I mean, yeah, I, again, I think, uh, you are right, things are changing. Um, there's definitely more practices that are prioritizing sensible working hours and really thinking about how they can stick to sensible working hours with, you know, efficiency. Not, you know, limiting the amount of design options that they go through.

And, uh, you know, just knowing when a sort of creative process has come to a bit of a stand still. So there's obviously crossover and wellbeing with. What we were talking about with studio environment and way ways of working. It's basically making sure you're getting your, your work and home life balance.

Right. And, you know, you're [00:36:00] being looked after so that you are not going to sort of burn out or, you know, take on too much. It, you know, I think as you say, Architecture is often seen as this sort of slightly vocational job that, you know, you'll just give everything to it. And I think not just in the Architecture industry, but across lots of industries, people are just like, that's just not a way that people can work for very long.

Yeah. Um, and, and I think particularly young people coming through now are just not prepared to, to do it. good . Um, and I think, you know, employers need to learn that pe people do want a better balance. They don't want to be there late at night, unpaid, um, you know, that's, that's no longer acceptable. So, uh, I think, you know, looking at how they support individuals in terms of sensible working hours, um, you know, policies, uh, and, and you know, also a process of how to get support if you need it.

You know, there, there's often within management, sort of certain people that you can talk to who aren't your immediate boss, um, that if you feel something's not right, you have another avenue. [00:37:00] Yeah. Obviously in very small companies that, that sort of might be slightly more problematic. But yeah, I would really be looking at sort of, you know, care of your physical and mental wellbeing, um, in a studio.

Stephen Drew: Yeah. Well said. And I agree that actually. and now as I'm experienced as an employer, really the buck stops. Um, oh my brain's gone. The buck stop short. I think that was the right saying with the company owner, we have to be responsible for our employees wellbeing. That being said, I'll just make one note that if anyone in the audience is particularly struggling with their wellbeing, it's a really good resource.

The Architect's Benevolent Society, if you work in the industry, you can contact them and they have a really good, um, help support line and they'll just really help you out with that if you are unfortunately in an environment which perhaps isn't looking after wellbeing. Sometimes though, even the best, um, companies, what I think is if you've got a particularly difficult project or something, [00:38:00] unfortunately some people kinda slip between the cracks.

And I think that goes back to what you were saying earlier, Julia, where you know, internal communication and sometimes you do have to have those uncomfortable conversations like. , you know, I'm feeling a bit burnt out at the moment. Yeah. And, and hopefully that will be received in a way that isn't, um, you know, like the Gordon Ramsey world we were talking about of , what you absolute donkey donor, why are you, you

Julia Nicholls: know?

Exactly. Yeah. You, we, we hear all these reports of like bullying and toxicity and long hours and like, you know, that that's, that's not okay and you need to be on the lookout for it. Um, yeah. So I, I I think that, uh, yeah, it, it's just, it's a really, really important aspect.

Stephen Drew: Nice. Now the next one in the list, when I, when I saw it, I was like, ah, that makes sense.

Very. Um, I'm very interested to hear your thoughts on this. I've got a few ideas on it, but how does one stay [00:39:00] in inspired? You know, we touched upon just. Difficult deadlines and stuff, and that can be a bit of a Debbie Downer because you're, oh, not good and all that stuff. But even in the good times, the importance of keep pe keeping people inspired, what's your experience on them?

Julia Nicholls: I mean, I think, so the, you've obviously got your career progression, but staying inspired generally about, you know, this industry that we're in, does your company invest in research and innovation? So this is outside of projects, uh, but in working hours, importantly, um, you know, it, and it, and usually research should be based around sort of something to do with their purpose or a kind of industry cause or issue that they're trying to address.

So, you know, if actually research is important to you, are they, are they a practice that invests in research? A lot do, but also, you know, many don't. So that's something to look out for. There was also a great post, um, thinking about c P D content and being interesting and, you know, [00:40:00] keeping up to speed with things.

Chris Simmons, who, I'm not sure if he's able to make the call today, but I'm sure he'll be listening later. Oh, he did a great post, was it this week, saying that, you know, CBDs are not just for sandwiches. Did make me chuckle, but he was saying, you know, the, the really, this is like a really important part of your journey.

Whatever stage you are at, it shouldn't just be a sales pitch by suppliers. It should be keeping you up to speed with evolving standards, new materials, innovative technologies. Um, you know, and so it should really be something that keeps you inspired and, you know, a practice who's just getting kind of, uh, iron manufacturers coming in every week, or, you know, tile suppliers.

Not that those things aren't also part of the mix, but, you know, I would be saying, come on, th this really isn't, we literally are just here for the sandwiches. Um, yeah. Yeah. So I think, yeah, thinking, you know, what, what does inspire you and, and am I learning? . Um, and I think also learning based on practice experience.

So [00:41:00] do you have internal forums based around sharing skills and experiences? You know, when you finish a project, there will always be lessons learned, good and bad, you know, mistakes made, but actually also innovative things that you did that could be rolled out in the next project. That just makes good business sense, but it's also very interesting because it's a real live problem, uh, or solution.

And, you know, that's, that's a really good learning process. And it's a, you know, building that you could probably visit. And that was my final point here is actually taking your staff out of the office to your own sites, to your own finished buildings, but also to other people's. Um, you know, and perhaps even contacting, I used to do this in a practice is actually contact other studios and say, can you just show us around this recently completed building?

And more often than not, they were more than happy to cuz they were really proud of it. Yeah, yeah. Um, are there any exhibitions going on, you know, at the building center or barbecue or n la that you could go to? It could even be a kind of four 30 trip outta the [00:42:00] office, but, you know, people can still be home by six if they want, you know, if they, but they can also stay on and have a drink if they want to.

Um, so those kind of things just to keep you inspired, um, you know, within the industry.

Stephen Drew: Yeah. Yeah. I um, I just want to go slightly back to the c p D thing cuz I saw. Chris is post and little quick interview. Chris is like the nicest guy and I know his content is starting to pop off and, you know, but really amazing cool stuff.

Yeah. Chris said, um, CPD is not just for the sandwiches. Well, I, I was the naughty buyer that went for the sandwiches, but I agree with you though. There was one, uh, CP d I went to and it was really interesting, talked about the offices of the future and you had to kind of pick which way you think it was gonna go.

It's really interactive and I paid attention for the whole thing and it was really cool. And you're right, like the next week was just some ceramic tiles and I was like dying in the background, but they, but they had pret [00:43:00] sandwiches. I was like, oh gosh, I know that manufacturer has them , but you're right, I think the C P D.

As is a space for innovation. I've got a few ideas in the future, you know, of what could disrupt that, but you are right. I think that could be a really nice source of, uh, you know, inspiration. The only last thing I would say, On that, which I've seen a really cool example of it. It's like internal competitions.

Okay, maybe it's not building that's gonna get built, but how cool is that? Suddenly people come to life, the part one comes out of nowhere with the best project ever and you're like, what the heck? Where's that guy come from? He's amazing.

Julia Nicholls: And definitely, and, and me as the comms team, you know, when I've seen projects like that, I mean, there was once, I think we perhaps did a, it was like a flamingo hide or something, or flamingo sort of enclosure.

Um, somewhere, somewhere sort of Middle East or so, and I was just, I had no idea this had gone on. It was a totally kind of, uh, [00:44:00] random competition and we didn't get shortlisted, but we sh you know, we should share that kind of thing anyway. And we did and it went down really well. . Um, so it's, yeah, it's just sort of, you know, showing people what's going on.

Um, just helps everybody stay

Stephen Drew: inspired. Amazing. We've got a comment come in from anonymous LinkedIn. I think because you gotta tick the allow button. But Mr. Or Mrs. Anonymous says, hi Steve RIBA. Core 20 CBDs are fab, but sort of pricey. Employers pay for the RIBA twen Core 20 and RIBA. Come on, let's get a coupon code.

You know, we gotta be, we gotta be, where's the point? We've gotta be inclusive, right? We don't wanna price people out of all the good stuff. Come on. R O B a. Okie. We'll put it on your list when you get there. Okay. I digress. And I'll go back to the, back to the track cuz we're, we're, we're nearing the end of your amazing list.

Social. Okay, we're almost there.

Julia Nicholls: Yeah. Now this is like the, the [00:45:00] social life of the practice. And I know it's more or less important to certain practices, but for me, the social life, you know, it, it can be in working hours and it can be out of working hours. But again, you need to think about your team and, you know, what do you want out of a social life?

Um, . I think that if you are a student and you've just moved to a city, or you've just started in a practice, you know, a recent graduate, then obviously your social life is maybe gonna be more important because you want to create friendships and yeah, maybe meet other people from other parts of the company, uh, you know, different departments.

Uh, but you know, as other commitments kind of come into play and perhaps these sort of pile on in later life, then you might find the social aspect is sort of less important to you. So you are sort of thinking about, you know, other responsibilities, other commitments, other passions that you have. Um, and I, I would really be thinking about the social life of a practice.

How optional is it? Because there are definitely practices that kind [00:46:00] of, if you are not on board with the social life, which can be quite demanding Yeah. You are not actually gonna sort of progress through that company because it's that important Mm. That run the company. And I'm, I'm quite anti that because I think that, you know, you shouldn't have to give up, uh, you know, spare time.

And I, and I'm certainly like not an antisocial person. I've, I've always enjoyed the social life, life of an office, but I don't think it should be a part of your career progression, uh, necessarily. Um, so yeah, I think it's just how, how much of a social life is there, how invested do you want to be in it?

How important is it to your experience at that studio?

Stephen Drew: Mm, very interesting. I agree with you. Like, I really think so. Social. I, and now I'm getting a bit older. You know, I, it's, it's still important. I think when I came to London, the first Architecture practice I went epr, they, they had a really good social life and they kind of had, they got the balance originally, like you said, where [00:47:00] if you were not really going out on the Fridays and stuff, you weren't really missing out.

It was optional. Yeah. It wouldn't go against, , but it was also a really good way to make friends, you know? Yeah. And, and we are not on about like you have to get absolutely muled or anything. You could go out for one drink or anything, but they put a lot of events on. They did the life drawing now and the yoga.

Yeah. So there was something for everything. If you wanted that cheeky beer that's there, if you wanted to do the life drawing, it's there. And I thought they got the balance right. Because if you didn't go, you didn't feel the peer pressure. Yeah. And I don't know about you, but I've had that friend before who had always, when I was younger, try to ring me up to go out.

And in the end it just absolutely drove me mad. But then you would get the fear of missing out things so you weren't enjoying it. Yeah. If you don't go, it was like peer pressure, you know,

Julia Nicholls: it, it definitely can feel like that. So I think, um, yeah, like, you know, as an employer, thinking [00:48:00] about does our offering, you know, is it inclusive for people who don't drink?

um, or, you know, for people who, who I, you know, don't, don't want to kind of do the full like sort of stag or hem party kind of experience, you know, um, you know, when they're going out. So, yeah, I, I think just that thinking about what you want to get out of it.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, exactly. Like for, for instance, with me, I eat meat, but you know, my name is right and, you know, it's totally cool.

And now it's just like something I, it's taken me a little bit, but now I think about it constantly, you know? Yeah. But it's stuff like that, isn't it? Where if it's all beers, well maybe I don't like a beer, you know? So people have to think about being inclusive. But these all kind of feed into each other.

They do now, the last one. Yeah. I dunno how you're gonna do, you're going to, this is a big one. This is as big as social community.

Julia Nicholls: Community. Yep. And this is a big one for me and [00:49:00] certainly I've this, I've done a lot of work in this area and really, really enjoyed it, but, For me, um, when, when I sort of put community as the heading, I mean, as a practice, as an employer, being a good neighbor, having a positive impact locally.

So thinking about local engagement. So we all know that, you know, uh, the Architecture industry can be quite difficult to access or even difficult to know that, that it exists and what the roots into it are. So making that, uh, making yourselves and your organization accessible locally. Can you do a careers talk at a local school?

Can you do sort of, you know, workshops or activities or invite, uh, school to do tours of your studio? Uh, can you offer work experience, uh, not just to your your client's nephew, but actually to, you know, make sure that there's a commitment to, you know, 50% local, 75% local, um, and also can you share skills with local organizations and certainly.

Um, I've seen this [00:50:00] happen before where, uh, you know, a an Architect can work with a community organization who's trying to sort of get funding for redevelopment of their building or an extension and actually just a few hours of your time to sketch out what could be possible, can literally be the unlocking to them getting funding from, you know, uh, a grant or, or the borough.

Um, and it'll unlock the whole process. Um, so I think there are lots of ways that architects can make a positive impact locally, uh, and, and should as, as should every industry. But, um, I think, you know, architects almost have such a, a useful set of skills, um, and quite a sort of, you know, barrier to accessibility that, um, yeah, there's a lot of ways you can be a good neighbor.

Stephen Drew: Very well said. And also the bit that I would like to add to community as well is also with our Architecture practices. So like, um, , you know, I think there's, uh, softball, but also there's a few other things where there's like a few [00:51:00] events like the Young Architects, developers Alliance, and that's a bunch of architects mixing, but getting involved, getting in the community, mixing with other practices.

You know, there's a chicken run in the abs with all Architecture practices. They raise money for charity and then celebrate after. But also, you know, that cross collaboration I think can be enriching in as well, rather than this silo thing where you, you know, you're the, you only, um, you only with the, your own company.

Yeah. I used to, I think that's an old way of sometimes like, oh, they're the competition, whereas, like Exactly. Wow. Yeah. Whereas like, and now I'm in a, we. . It's quite funny cuz even in recruitment there's, when it's like sales and maybe you'll know as well, you know, when you, you competing forbid, you're like, oh, heaven forbid, you know, I talk about this and certain things and okay, I know there's confidential aspects of projects, but when you are in these environments and everyone's coworking, I, I realize quite quickly people, [00:52:00] you know, they care about their business.

They're not, you know, it's fine. And when architects meet up with each other, they're not out there to gouge information usually. they were, you know, it's like, and it's sometimes nice to meet people in the profession at different places, you

Julia Nicholls: know? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So I think that that's another sort of side of it, isn't it, that kind of industry community.

And you are seeing it more and more with younger practices who are collaborating together, pitching together, uh, things like the London Practice Forum, which is a sort of group of smaller architects that kind of group together to share knowledge and skills. They even share staff. So, you know, if one sort of fellow goes home, they knew staff across and then they come back, it's, you know, it's a really great idea because there's so much, uh, you know, if, if you are all of those practices went away to research, kind of, uh, you know, insurance or whatever, then that's sort of so many people spending time doing the same thing.

Whereas if they kind of pool those resources, um, then it, it just, it makes so much sense. Uh, there's so much [00:53:00] valuable knowledge that that can be shared between other, you know, other people within the same industry.

Stephen Drew: Very cool. I've heard of one or two elusive groups in the industry of like a HR and Architecture.

Yeah, there is, there is one. Yeah, there's, there's a financial director's one there as well. So there's a few, there's a couple of,

Julia Nicholls: uh, comms ones as well. In fact, one of them run by io. Uh, and, and they're brilliant. And actually, when I set up as a consultant, I was, you know, I kind of, uh, was so surprised at how many of my so-called competitors actually reached out to me in a really friendly and lovely way.

And, you know, we, uh, ask each other for advice. We, you know, share contacts. We kind of, you know, we're, we're, it's a really supportive landscape and I think that's the way it should.

Stephen Drew: Very cool. And look, I mean, we've covered the 10, your 10 amazing points where you offered insight. So I'm gonna do a round of applause.

I was just [00:54:00] notice, cause I got this new big cup, it's like if you were wearing freed glasses, it looks like I'm coming out of the screen. So sorry, the audience for like, jab you in the face, but it, it keeps me hydrated throughout the show, . So I'm gonna, I'm gonna talk about, uh, your consultancy in, in, in a second.

But just before that, Julie, I always like to throw, give the, the opportunity for people to ask me questions. Now as such a diligent character, I reckon you already knew I was gonna do that. Um, and you might have one or two questions for me before we wind down.

Julia Nicholls: Sorry for me or the

Stephen Drew: audience, you can ask me.

Yeah, don't worry about the audience. Well, sorry, the audience. Oh, I leave now. You can ask a question, but Julia, you can ask me a question as well.

Julia Nicholls: I mean, well firstly, uh, is there anything that you think I have missed off the list in terms of culture? Would there be anything you would be looking for?

Stephen Drew: Mm, I [00:55:00] Good question.

I mean, I

Julia Nicholls: am, well, this one would be most important to you if, if you were giving up the Architecture Social looking for a job. Never. Which one's most important,

Stephen Drew: cranky, controversial one. Discussing salary, I think would be an important one. You know, it's, it's not all about the salary. It is though important because especially now things are quite tough.

Mm-hmm. and I think, I think. . Um, it shouldn't be all about the salary, but I think we have to start normalizing the conversations of salaries because I used to remember Julia being so worried that were bringing it up that I often wouldn't, and then it would kind of come at the end and then I would worry about it.

Whereas actually being professionals, it's actually okay to talk about salaries. And I think one of the baptisms of fire of learning is the hard way, as you know now, is being your own consultant. Because really the buck stops with you. And if you don't bring up, um, money at [00:56:00] the front, sometimes you can waste time down the process.

And I think that. It's okay to talk about it when you're talking about the full position. You should be interested in the projects you should be interested in, in a lot of stuff that we, we talked about here, what is the studio culture? You should gloss like inclusivity. You can challenge, you know, maybe in an interview when they ask, do you have any questions?

So it's good to talk about, you know, um, wellbeing, you know, what kind of projects, what examples of career progression opportunities do we have here. But it's also okay if it's not popped up to talk about salary. I think it's, it should been normalized and encouraged. , um, in a non-confrontational way, you know, what were you looking to pay someone?

And

Julia Nicholls: I think that people at the future architects front are, you know, making a real point of the, you know, the salary should be upfront on the job advert. People should know, you know, what, what the kind of parameters of the salary are before they have to take the time to apply and [00:57:00] perhaps go for an interview.

And yeah, I think it probably comes back to transparency as well, doesn't it? And in terms of, you know, , are we, are we on the same page in terms of money? It's important.

Stephen Drew: Yeah. And, and just to add to that as well, cause I think where I sympathize with Architectural practices is, is quite scary to put a number out there.

But in my experience, it's never really a fixed number unless you are in the government. And it's always based on the individual and their experience and timing and, and, and so forth. And I'd encourage practices to be open with the fluidity of it. But also the, the thing I'd throw back is that sometimes.

um, maybe too narrow a salary can exclude people. Mm-hmm. that actually you'd, you'd pay extra for their skillset. And equally, you know, sometimes maybe hiring someone a bit earlier in their career, um, who might, could be not qualified and therefore they're on a bit lower salary. Doesn't mean that you need to hire someone [00:58:00] on this end to do the job.

It can be someone with a lot of potential. And, um, the last last thing I'd add to it is like software skills. I mean, they are important on one end of the scale, but at the end, other end of the scale, we should be open to training people. And, and I think that, um, Sometimes, uh, in recruitment they can clinging to the word Revit.

Oh, they don't have Revit? Oh, I'm not sure. But peop most people, if they're hungry and keen and, and eager, they will learn that stuff if you give them training, you know?

Julia Nicholls: Definitely. Yeah. And I think a decent employer will be totally open to training you, you know, your, um, yeah. It, it's just, uh, no one has all the assets, you know?

No, no one sort of holds all the cards at one point. So I think if someone's 90% right, but they need some training in this aspect, then an employer would, would be stupid not to do that.

Stephen Drew: I agree. Was, before I show you website, was there anything else you wanted to pick my brains on? Julian .

Julia Nicholls: So much stuff.

I've, [00:59:00] I've just noticed a question here. Should, should we look at that? Cause I'm, I'm an hour,

Stephen Drew: um, oh yeah, go on then. So

Julia Nicholls: does it, does it harm my chances of getting into a more boutique design studio where my only experience has in big has been in big corporate firms? Um, I would say no. And actually I've, I've almost.

Done the same, where I've gone from being a, a sort of communications director in, in a big studio for the largest portion of my career, and actually now working for very small firms, you've got to frame yourself, right? So you've got to look at how your experience in the big corporate firms are going to apply to a boutique design studio.

Um, so I think it's, uh, you know, you'll have a lot of skills that actually the boutique design studio could benefit from. Yeah. Um, so I think it's just really having, uh, you know, communications for me is all about putting myself in, in the receiver's shoes, you know, what would they like to hear about? What are the kind of contacts and experience, uh, that [01:00:00] you have that's going to be really valuable to them?

Stephen Drew: Yeah, well said. And I, the only thing I would add to that is kind of em embrace it. I always find like, for instance, with if you need sponsorship or visas, it's, again, it's like the salary thing sometimes because it's an awkward situation. , we can bring it up at the end, but why not go into that interview or send the application going?

I've worked in a large practice, I've learned all this amazing stuff. I'm very interested in the smaller studio for X, Y, Z. And I think you get that bit out at the start and people go, okay, you know, this is interesting. And I think then you, you kind of set the scene. So that would be my advice. And going from big to small or small to big, you know?

Ooh, awesome. That's awesome advice. Thank you. Pleased. Well, you're welcome. Well, Julie, I'm gonna give you a quick round of applause and bring up your website, so everyone in the audience. Julia, tell us about what you do in your business again at [01:01:00] the moment. .

Julia Nicholls: So, uh, I do communications consultancy, um, oh look, there's my website.

Um, yeah, so it's basically around, uh, working with practices to understand their audiences and understand, uh, you know, how to connect better with their audiences, which does, uh, include future employees as well as clients and collaborators. And then create a really bespoke approach to, um, sort of rolling out those communications in the right way.

So, you know, architects traditionally have often sort of communicated peer to peer trying to impress each other rather than actually thinking about who, who is commissioning us and, you know, who do we want to work with and alongside. So, um, yeah, I, I work with practices for sort of two or three months and then sort of give them a framework of advice on how I think they can best communicate with their target audiences.

Stephen Drew: Amazing. Well, I mean, if you ever were in doubt of, should I, or should I not speak to Julia? Well listen to this [01:02:00] podcast because it was curated by her. Give you a never round of applause, Julia. I'm gonna end now this live stream in a second. You've been an absolute star and for our Oh, that's true. But for our audio listeners, if you want to check out Julia's consultancy, it's www.

Julia Nichols, j u l i a, Nichols, n i c h o l l s. Don't forget the other L at the end. That's what helped me out before. Very important. Yeah. I sent it to the wrong one and then worked it out quickly. I was like, damn it. So get that right. Check out Julia's website and get in contact. Uh, Julia. Can people also find you on LinkedIn as.

Julia Nicholls: Yes, I'm on LinkedIn and I'm on Instagram.

Stephen Drew: Amazing. Well, you've been an absolute start. One more clap for good measures and you know you've had that cheeky chart at the start, , have another one now. After this, I'm gonna end the live streaming [01:03:00] for you guys in the audience, thank you so much for being here.

If you've got any suggestions for more content in 2023, I'm all years. And if you, like I said, if you wanna find me, I am in Waterloo knocking around, trying to get the computers, trying to get my HR procedures, trying to be inclusive and trying to get a good environment as well. But until then, I will see you shortly for more content.

Thank you again, Julia. I'm gonna run the podcast now. Take care everyone. Stay on the stage. Julia, see you.