Let's Discuss and Review Architecture CVs together

0066 - Let's Discuss and Review Architecture CVs together
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Stephen Drew: [00:00:00] Hello? Hello. Hello, everyone. How are you? How are you? Will, are you well? I am well, and I'm Will. I'm well. And how are you doing, Steve? I'm, I'm, I'm having a bumpy week, not feeling the best will, but the show goes on, the show goes on, and this will be the last day. Now I am in my living room, as you can see right here.

This is very badly covering up my living room well, but um, the good news is my carpets are down. So next, uh, tomorrow on our live stream, I will give you a little tour if I can of the office, but In the short term, this is a special, and we're going to be doing a few specials. And so the topic here, I should probably have had a banner ready, but let's do, we are going to review CVs and offer [00:01:00] our top tips.

Boom. So banner. Boom, that's how professional we are on the fly. Here we go. We're going to reveal our CVs together. So what I've done today, guys, it's really good to have you here is we're going live. We're going to do a little bit of me and Will's thoughts on what makes good CVs. Now we can't show people CVs because of GDPR and I wouldn't want to do that anyway.

So we're going to talk about it in two parts. Me and Will are going to talk about the theory of what makes a good CV. But we've also downloaded some CV templates, which I have the full license to, so we can talk about them. Now think of it as they're going to stimulate the conversation. And from that, while we're going, you can ask, ask any questions.

We'll probably good to turn off my phone. I will turn off my phone and you can answer, ask any questions to me and Will while we're doing it. So I can see one or two comments coming in. Nigel, thank you very much. [00:02:00] Banners on the fly, that's how we roll. But further ado, Will, should we bring up the CVs?

Should we do that then?

Will Ridgway: I think we should, yes.

Stephen Drew: Okay, so what I've got here, oh, it's the wrong way, what over here is a CV. Now, I'm going to be driving the computer on my screen, but this is a CV template which I downloaded and I thought it would be a brilliant way to start because I think this is a really poor CV.

Now, you can, you'll have to imagine a little bit here guys because I just got downloaded the templates, but imagine this was populated and imagine you saw this template. CV. This came in, in the inbox. Now I have a few problems with it. It wouldn't grab my attention, first and foremost. Now, Will, I'm not sure how you feel, but this is, this, to me, you're looking at this, and the one thing, we can go into the specifics, and we will go through it, talking about colors, talking about text, and talking about type.

But the [00:03:00] first thing I want everyone to think about is, when you're constructing a CV, you've got to grab people's attention. Okay, so the graphic designer is a bit lackluster, but more importantly, you've got to think about you've got two or three pages to make an impression, probably even less than three, isn't it?

Well, one to two pages, and the first sheet in particular of the CV needs to make an impact. And what I find really difficult here, let me zoom in, is that, what's the shame is, There's so much, so one third of the first page has got the image, the name, and the contact details. You're not going into the juicy goods.

You've got to imagine it like you're online, right? Your CV's out there. It's like Tinder. You're going to be, you're going to be one of the people in the piles, and you've got to make sure that the reader swipes to the left. Or is it the right? Well, I forget. Uh, I have no idea. Okay, well, get on Tinder, you're a single bachelor, and the lockdown's ending, so you [00:04:00] can go back on Tinder.

But if, point is, you've got to grab people's attention. And this is just a lot of redundant space. And then the next thing that this person jumps into is is they talk about their education, and education again, wow, this is a terrible template. But if you think about it, right, the most relevant thing in a CV is probably going to be your current job, right?

Or the job that you finished last, because that's the most relevant bit. So you're going to have that backed up with your education, and backed up with your software. Okay, so number one on the list, we'll do another impromptu banner, is, um, number one, what should we call it? I think clear use of the page.

Space, yeah. Clear use of the space, and more of it, I'm thinking about, be efficient. Be efficient with the use of the C. Make an impact. You're going to make [00:05:00] an impact and be efficient with the, with the C. With the space we can use to grab their attention. Okay. All this on the fly because I live in my kitchen, but that's the most important thing.

The whole theory of what we're doing is to grab people's attention. You need to totally grab people's attention and you need to be really efficient. With the way you use the CV. And I would think this is, this is an excellent example of how not to be efficient. Well, what's your current thoughts when you look at this CV and you don't have to go on to that point that I've raised.

It can be other things as well, but what really jumps out to you so far as being a bad example. of a CV, and then we'll get to some better examples.

Will Ridgway: Yeah, well I think, um, I think, uh, it is, uh, the biggest problem with a CV is, is the use of space, because as you quite [00:06:00] clearly mentioned, um, and it was the use of space and also its structure as well, I mean, yes, you might have an argument if you're quite early on in your career and you don't have much professional experience, Then, of course, maybe you're going to talk a bit more about your education because you've not got anything else to revert back to.

Um, but ideally, if you do, if you've been working, uh, at least, at least one year's experience, or even if it's less than that, if it's still relevant professional experience, it still should be the first thing that they should see. So that should, first of all, be above, The education, uh, and then additionally as well, improve the use of space and because there's a lot of, there's a lot of emptiness there and that translates to you because it looks like, oh, and that person hasn't really got much.

It's something that really stands out, let's say. It's super, super forgettable.

Stephen Drew: We've got one or two things coming in, so good work guys. From Madge, well, we do try to do it on the fly. And Sean points out here, junior high, if you're a college grad, I don't think that's important. Probably true, Sean, I think you're right.

What I will say though, is that [00:07:00] I've just downloaded these templates online and we're going to review if they're good or not. Generally, I think that you shouldn't really use templates at all. If They're okay for a little bit of initial inspiration, but to be, to be honest, as an architect or designer, you want to be hired for your ability to design and probably you should Do your own magic, but we will give you a few things that when you're doing your own magic, there's going to be things you can avoid.

So, we're going to get rid of this CV. If I had them scoring cards, I would give it like an epic fail. And if I had my soundboard here, well, I would kick it out of the room. Awful. Awful CV. Into the bin you go! So this is the next example I've got, and so, sorry, I'm going to try and minimize these as we go along.

Um, but here's the first. So I think it's immediately better, but I want you to think about what we talked about before. So I'm just trying to, going to try and [00:08:00] make this a little bit bigger. Well, So that you guys can hopefully see it. I can see as well. Yeah, so basically just before we even go into the details, just think of the page, right?

Think of the layout. So we want to make an impact. So okay, you've got your name big here and your job position. Now I think it is good to always poke with your job position. You need to have a little sentence saying who you are, what you're about, and what you're looking for. Where you are and when I am Stephen Drew.

I am an architectural assistant who is immediately available in the London area. Okay, boom. You know what they talking about? What we don't want is this meandering big paragraph talking about how you love sustainability and dah, dah, dah. You can touch upon that, but the start bit up here, have your like immediate action sentence.

I am Will Ridgway. I am, uh, I am, uh, I am working on the Stephen Drew team and I'm not looking to leave either. Okay, so yeah, you wouldn't have a CV Will, but I'm going to zoom in [00:09:00] here for you guys, but you can see what I mean. And then here's a good topic. So we're talking about images and CVs. Should you put your profile picture on the CV?

It's a controversial question. So the two arguments that I've heard is that on one hand, if you put your image, you're building rapport. Okay, because you're being, you're, you're immediately a little bit more of a person, right? The downside is that you unfortunately have risk of formulating unconscious biases in the reader, okay?

They can make, they can make assumptions where they don't even mean to. This is one one of those unconscious biases. So, pictures can be, um, They can go either way, okay? So have a little think about that when you're doing a picture. If in doubt, do not put a picture. And generally, the work should speak for itself in the experience, and if it doesn't, that's going to be the undoing of your CV, not a pretty picture on there.[00:10:00]

Again, like I talked about before, I think like these introductions, you don't want a long, meandering thing. You want to be really to the point. And I think everything that we're going to talk about today, the best CVs are to the point. Think of it like they grab the person's attention, The person can easily see all the information that they need and invite you for the interview.

If you can do that, you've generally won. So let's go into it. So then we've got more blank space down here, and the contact details are all the way down the bottom. So this is a really strange layout. And the bit I think is this is a really strange use of the space. Now I see these a lot as well. So at least here we have dates on the timeline.

I think this is a really good point to make. We'll put number two here. So I'm going to say number two, put your most recent work experience in the forefront of the CV. Okay. Sorry. You can hear me typing away. Um, so put your most recent work experience at the forefront of your [00:11:00] CV. Um, that's going to be, so your professional experience is always going to catch people's attention.

And your most recent one is the most relevant, typically, right? What you did five years ago. That's great, but that was five years ago. So focus on your current existing role and make sure the dates are there. Try and avoid having, um, trying to avoid having ambiguous dates. 2009. 2010. 10. Yeah, definitely

Will Ridgway: include the months.

Stephen Drew: Include the months. And, I mean, if you've worked somewhere for years and years, you could say. I joined in 2009 and I'm here in the present and that's fine because it's such a gap, Will, do you know what I mean? But I think especially if you're a part one or part two, it does help to put down the months.

And the general rule with CVs, or my thoughts are, if you're conscious all of a sudden about thinking, Oh, you [00:12:00] know, I've got a gap here. It's been chronovirus difficult. Just embrace it. Because when you could, it's like that. Uh, quote from Game of Thrones, which is saying like, wear your insecurities on your, you know, wear, use them as a shield.

And what I'm using for this is just embrace it. This has been coronavirus, it's been difficult. That's why I'm available. That's why you can hire me. Don't be embarrassed about it. Mistakes happen in life, and, oh, things happen, events happen, and just roll with it, I think. The worst bit is when you've got dates that don't match up and you're being really unclear why, because then what's happening is it's not about the fact that you've got the gap, it's about the fact that you're not building up trust.

So here is perfect because it's December to September, then September 2014 goes into October 2014. Great. So when you've got in your CVs typically, you write in the description. So this to me is probably a little bit too thin. Okay. And your current role should [00:13:00] always be a little bit bigger than the other roles, but when you're there, so now we've got the Ypsilanti text, but I want you to always be literal when, when you're, uh, in the CVs.

So you can say, I was a Part 2 Architectural Assistant. I was working on, uh, the RAM Brewery. This was actually me. So then here we go. So I did it stages one to three. I saw it through. Initial design stages to just going into tender stages. So that's RIBA stages 1 to 3. I did XYZ packages. I had this experience.

The project is X in value and how big it is. So what I'm talking about here is, you always want to be very literal with your job description. I did the design coordination of a commercial. Uh, Scheme in Central London for RIBA Stages 1 to 5. Super, super clear. I lay the team afoot, yeah? [00:14:00] Keep it always clear and concise so people can read it and they get a full understanding of Of what you are doing.

So here we go. There's a point. Do you think the use of graphics would be ATS friendly? Really good question. Now an ATS is a technical term used in recruitment called Applicant Tracking System. I've heard it all over the years as well of, Ooh, do I need to make, put keywords in like Revit 10 times? So the machine picks it up when I go to the, don't worry about it because it's typically an architecture.

You're going to be, you're going to have your CVs. They're going to be on, in someone's inbox somewhere. I don't know any architectural practices apart from the big companies, maybe like Foster's and Partners, which use an applicant tracking system. So really what it is, is about standing out. Okay. And I will put that over.

Don't worry about putting jargons in. It reminds me years ago in McDonald and Company, well, we had a marketing person. That's talked about always inserting keywords in your ads so that you, the system would [00:15:00] pick it up. And the point was, well, I didn't, I think that sometimes I can make this robot talk, so don't worry about should I put graphics in or not?

Don't worry about keywords there. Think about graphics, like, is it better in the CV or is it better in the portfolio? Well, do you know what I mean? Sometimes I've seen like, uh, uh, pictures in a CV that do really well and they serve a nice purpose, but other times it can really Confuse the CV. So, well, by the way, I'm just in motor mission mode for whatever reason.

Feel free to jump in. Yeah, I know.

Will Ridgway: I agree with everything you said. Everything you said is spot on. I was particularly interested in, um, when you were talking about, um, the content itself, about what you were doing specifically, because that is important. I see a lot of people who are quite vague. And it's very difficult to understand.

And even when seeing a portfolio, it's still difficult to understand [00:16:00] what the role was, what state, what RIBA stages were they working on, were they front end or they across all stages and software as well, what projects, what software you're using on that particular project, because

Stephen Drew: a

Will Ridgway: lot of people in their skill section, they'll say, I've been using Revit, AutoCAD, MicroStation, um, you know, and, but it's difficult to work out their experience on each because they're not detailed in their CV.

So that's important to know.

Stephen Drew: Brilliant. I've typed up it as you said there, Will. Fantastic. So that was number four. And I'm going to say be clear with the date of employment and embrace, embrace gaps because you can clearly explain

Will Ridgway: in an interview, you know, embrace it. Yeah, definitely don't lie about your dates.

If you're a bit cautious because, and you're a bit cautious because there was a two month gap and you decided to cover it by saying I was employed to that [00:17:00] length, it will get found out, uh, even for a reference check or, uh, or something. It'll get found out and then it'll look even worse for you. Just embrace it and then you get the opportunity to explain it.

And to be honest, at this time anyway, most employers are going to recognize that it's, it's been a tough time for them. A lot of people job, so it's not surprising to see someone that hasn't worked since autumn last year, for example.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I agree. I'm just going to quickly check the comments before I got one or two points.

Uh, thank you. Well, you're welcome. Uh, no problem at all. Keep the questions coming. I really, really appreciate the questions. That's what we're here for. So, jumping down to education. So, education is important to get there. Whether you need this much, I don't know. So, like for me The fact that I've got my part one and part two in architecture and the grades is really helpful, but I now the favor in your experience, the less you need to put.

So I would say if you're a graduate, putting in that amount of information is absolutely fine. But the moment you become a little bit more than a graduate, the [00:18:00] moment that you've got more and more industry experience, it's more about the fact that you've done your part two and you have that grades. And the interesting bit is the job description that we talked about.

Well, so that would be my trade off. Hey, my washing's done. Sorry guys, I'm living in the living room for last, last day. Well, I can't wait to go back now.

Will Ridgway: Yeah, we need your soundboard. That's what I missed the most. I

Stephen Drew: know, you know, when I go back, I'm going to be like, because I've been living in the living room.

It'll feel like there's so much more space. Okay, um, well, I wanted to talk about software, um, and skills here. So this is a really good point to highlight it. So I've got a theory that I want to talk at the end and will remind me. So the one role that you've got today, because you know me, my brain goes off on one, is.

You've got to remind me of your, my holy free trinity concept, and I am going to tell you guys that at the end, if you stick around, you will hear my, the, what I think is the, the amazing triangle of awesomeness. I've got to think of a name to call it, which grabs people's attention at the start, the free things that [00:19:00] people look at in CVs and the information you should put at the front.

So well reminded. You've really

Will Ridgway: picked that up, it better be worth it.

Stephen Drew: I'm telling you it's worth it, but it ties in with everything we talked about. Okay, so, software skills. Okay, wow, softwares, this is so important. Everyone puts software in their CV, and everyone rates themselves 4 out of 10. 10 out of 10.

6 out of 10. Yay. Problem is, is that, that has no bearings to me. So I was a 4 hour, uh, 4 hour 10, I was an 8 hour 10 on Revit maybe in 2014, but now it's very, very old. But I guess I could probably pick it up a bit easier than some, if I, if I overloaded it up again. The point is though, I think you should be really literal with it, and also I see like a BIM Manager, it's going to be really critical on the amount of BIM knowledge they have, compared to a Part 2.

Right? So, so basically, what is the difference between, [00:20:00] uh, how do you substantiate what is 4 out of 10, 10? The really best way to do it, you can if you want, put a scale there, but my advice with software is you should always be very literal. With the examples, so the way I would do it is I would say, uh, I would say now I've got Revit.

You would, you would put the most desirable softwares at the top as well. So Revit is going to go at the top because a lot of employers in the UK are looking for it. And I would say Revit. Two years industry experience, and then you could say 6 out of 10. Or maybe you wouldn't even need to say that. You could just say, Revit, two years experience.

I guarantee you, that's going to grab people's attention much more than saying 6 out of 10. I don't care for a 6 out of 10. What does it mean? You know, I rate myself 10. Yay! So, [00:21:00] be really literal with software and certifications or anything like that is going to carry more weight in my opinion along with, um, the amount of time you've done it.

So, hear me out. So, two examples. So, I have put in my CV here. Adobe Illustrator, 4 out of 5. Will puts in his CV, Adobe Illustrator. 2 years industry experience, 3 years using it in total, and I have Adobe Illustrator certificate. If you were looking for someone to do Adobe Illustrator, who are you going to hire?

Me. Will. Will, you're gonna hire him. So, well done, Will, you got the job. Thank you. No problem. But you see, so when you're doing your CV, get into the mind frame of someone who's hiring. And the person who's hiring is looking to solve a problem. That's what a job is. There's a gap in the system, in the [00:22:00] company, where someone is looking for your experience.

So you need to say, hey, I have great design skills. I've used Revit for two years. You need to be really, really literal. And languages, here's a good example here, of say, whether it's native, second language, whether you've been learning it for three years, put all that information down. So it's the same thing as the software.

So there's a theme going throughout all this. It's being literal, okay? Being very literal with the job that you've done. You were, um, saying that was a senior architect at Fosters and Partners. You worked on. The, I don't know, a large airport, RIBA stages two to four, it's worth 300 million. It's based in the UK, whatever.

You've got to be really, really literal with the examples. And if you're a student, talk about any experience that you've got in industry, work experience at the front. Okay, I'll have a breather. We'll move on to another example. [00:23:00] Well, now what's your immediate first impressions when you look at this one?

Will Ridgway: Uh, it's mainly the color. I immediately see the name and I immediately see the experience at the top. I'm not a bit of a fan of the whole graphic artist in that blue font because I didn't notice that immediately. Um, but, um, I mean, the font is quite big. Um, which I don't know, it depends really how much you experience, but there's not, there's not a lot of detailed experience for each particular job.

So it's a little bit similar to the one before it. I mean it merely stands out because of the colour compared to the other, but I don't necessarily think it's All positive, I think is a mixture of positive and negative. That was kind of not a very literal explanation, Steve. Yeah, no,

Stephen Drew: I like it. I agree. And the one bizarre thing, it's interesting that we've got so much contact details down here for whatever reason.

Yeah, I don't like

Will Ridgway: them up

Stephen Drew: there. I normally like contact details at the top [00:24:00] as well, but like my brain is programmed to for some reason. And you don't need to take up so much space. You can just literally, you can even, I mean, address anymore. Just say based in London, who's going to, who's going to load your postcode anymore?

Just say you're in London. And say, put your email and your phone number and, you know, I, I mean, I don't really think anyone needs your Facebook. No one needs to see you in tiger and tiger when you were. When you were just, you know, in university. So don't even bother with it. Got one or two comments here before we go in.

Yep. My mate Yogi says, happy St. David's day for yesterday. All right, Yogi, how are you? Me and Yogi used to go to Tiger and Tiger in Manchester, actually. Alrighty. Yeah. One of us got kicked out once. So guess whether it was me or Yogi. But, um, yeah, Tiger and Tiger Menster, me and Yogi are not welcome, but this was 10 years ago, all right, a lot happens in 10 years, right?

We're professionals now, Will, yeah? Yeah, we hope. [00:25:00] One would hope. Well, hopefully we'll redeem ourselves in this. So, uh, Yogi had a really good CV, actually, and he actually, at the time, I'm going to embarrass him if he's listening, He took the theme of windows with the desktop and he had all like his experience in windows bars with the Adobe and Revit icon, like the desktop icons.

It was quite clever. That's pretty creative. Yeah, it was really good. Yogi, maybe you can give me your permission. We can get you on here at some point. I'm going to move on. Let me get rid of these. So let me just get rid of these guys quickly. So we agreed in the bin. This one's, I think personally, to summarize this one for me, You got, I'm not a big fan of these, you know, I think the blue, okay, if you want, but you could do a lot more fun, have a lot more substance in it.

And this kind of gray is a little bit overbearing for me, but let's talk about the information there, right? You will, we got it squished all the way up here, isn't it? It's so small.

Will Ridgway: I think I [00:26:00] preferred the CV before, I'll be honest. Even though it's got a lot more colour to it, I don't think it's gone in its favour.

I think it's, um, the actual content, whilst the colour is important because it does effectively grab the attention, it also matters the content. So immediately my attention is grabbed, but I'm going to switch off very quickly if I haven't got the content there.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I hear you. And do you know the other thing that I popped up in my brain well?

Yeah. Is the personal skills at the bottom. What is this? Personal skills. Creative. Creative, 8 out of 10. Innovation, 10. Teamwork, 6 out of 10. This guy isn't going to get it all for me! Right? But, but what? These are empty skills. You know, Hey Gregory, welcome to the Fred, uh, welcome to the Fred, welcome to the workshop.

These are empty, right? The best thing to do is you're going to, you can get, you can weave in the fact that you're creative and you, you work on teams and you innovate through your experience. It should be your [00:27:00] experience and your academic work and your grades, which illustrate that. So the stuff that I would put down here is this is a perfect example of like, In my opinion, empty information, and this could be better used for languages, like you mentioned before, or for instance, like remember you did with like rugby and you were waiting, uh, so you, you put in your skills, you put in your extra curriculum.

That's the kind of stuff that I would recommend that you put at the bottom there. Well, when I, you know, like the extra, anything extra curriculum, awards, talking about tennis club, rugby club, building up rapport with the interview. That's the bit that I think is much more special because if, for instance, you say you go to rugby club, it shows that you're social, it shows that you've done certain things in India.

A passion for rugby. Now, I've seen people get jobs on the fact that they have the same hobby as their interviewer, you know? There was a director at [00:28:00] 3D Reads. That I always work with, Will, and he loves rugby, and if you like rugby, it'll help in your interview. Do you know what I mean? You still need to be good, but it's that little cherry on the top, isn't it?

That people go like, Oh, do you know what? I met Will. He's got the Revit, he's got the experience, and he seems like such a nice bloke. Really likes the rugby too. And that's the important bit you want to do. And I think that that's really how, that's really going to clinch it. Whereas saying, Hmm. You're 5 out of 10 of communication.

Again, we have the empty 10 in us. What

Will Ridgway: does that mean? And it's like, innovation, like, well, it'd be better if you're innovative. Put that into your, work that into your, um, you know, professional experience. How have you been innovative? Have you created a plugin, for example, that could be useful? Exactly.

Actually talk about it in the professional experience, rather than have that really empty at the top and then spread out. Just include it in there. It adds so much more substance [00:29:00] and it means more as well.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, bingo. Well said, Will. And so, we should do this for number four, and number four is, uh, number five.

Yeah, number five now. Uh, number five, oh no, number five was the software. So we're going to say, be specific, specific, specific, specific, specific with software skills. How many years, sorry, hi guys, you have, this is where everyone drops

Will Ridgway: off. Yeah, you're 10 for communication. I know, sorry

Stephen Drew: guys.

Boom. Okay, that'll do. So number five was the software. Be specific with the skills. We don't want these six out of tens. And it's the same thing with So the whole point of it, there's a theme coming from this one, isn't it? Where we're less interested about The graphic design, because [00:30:00] the graphic design is really about supporting the content.

But the big problems are is it's like the, the, it's like a house. You can paint the house, you can render the house, you can do whatever you want, but if the structure's there not there, the whole thing's gonna come down. And with a cv, this offers no value. Being creative saying, I am creative, saying that's a lack of creativity there.

Yeah. And this is like Photoshop, so be literal. Eight years Photoshop. Boom. Okay. I, um, participated in a competition design with four other students and we were runner up. Boom. I'm in the rugby club. Boom. I speak Spanish as my second language. It's my passion. Boom! Super, super literal stuff, you know? Uh, a 2 1 in Architecture at the University of Manchester.

Boom! That's all you need to put it in there. Do you know what I

Will Ridgway: mean? Yeah, I think a CV that was, um, didn't have much graphic design at all to it, but had the literal information is going to [00:31:00] stand out more to me than someone that's got all this wonderful graphics, but the substance isn't there. Because, you know, the literal information is going to grab my attention because I'm going to see certain words and be like, Yeah.

Revit, okay, um, RIBA Stage 2 to 5, for example, that's going to grab my attention, so it's important to focus on the substance first, and then weave that into a creative way after.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, completely agree. I think that's well said. So we're going to move on to the next one. I'm going to digest it here. We've got the Undertaker from WWF or WWE.

This is the best template I could find. I'm just going to do quickly before we jump in one or two comments. Gregory loves the CV clinic. Thank you very much. We're going to be doing more of these in the architecturesocial. com. So if you're not joined, you can join already. And you can, you can join for free at architecturesocial.

com forward slash join. We'll be doing more of these, [00:32:00] but I like these CV things online. And actually me and Will were thinking about what we're going to prepare before. And this is the kind of thing that we talk in a day to day basis with. In our job, so it feels a bit more natural to me. Well, um, but we'll experiment with it as well.

So I've got one or two more things popping up here. Um, add all the information, all that information in a cover letter. Now, Ooh, I'm a bit controversial with covering letters. I think you don't. You don't need them that much anymore. I think like a strong CV paragraph, which isn't too long, a waffling and a CV and a portfolio is what people use.

Okay, you can do a covering letter and it's nice like a ribbon on top. But again, it's like a ribbon on top. The CV, everything lives and dies by the CV. The CV is like the heart or anything like that. And the portfolio is the strong, uh, Document that goes alongside the CV, which just like pushes it through.

And on that note, we've got here the [00:33:00] Undertaker's CV and resume portfolio. So immediately, I would never put this picture. So, Will knows me, and remember, everything we do here is our opinions okay but my opinion is based on the fact that I've done recruitment for seven years and I worked in industry so it's just informed on what I see works and what I see doesn't work but it's my opinion so remember you can tweak things the way you want and that's the point it's you are your designer you are the master of your own realm But I'm just trying to impart some thoughts for you to think about.

So immediately here I start me and Will's first reaction where we started giggling, okay, so. On one hand, you could get noticed by doing this. On the other hand, I've already made an assumption that this person's a wrestler, um, which is probably not accurate at all, but look at this empty space. I'm, I, I'm a big believer in these, like not using these, uh, cover sheets and I [00:34:00] used to do them as well.

So you do a portfolio and then you'd go. Portfolio. And it's like, what is this space? Well, it's just in recruitment. We always take them out because it's a waste of space. And like, look at this, right? Page two is this quote. So rule number one, the number, the biggest rule of them all. So just keep the CV, the CV and put the portfolio, the portfolio and how you can, when you send the CV and the portfolio off in an email, You put the files as Stephen Drew, CV, Stephen Drew, Portfolio, and Will Ridgway, CV, Will Ridgway, Portfolio for him.

Don't put Stephen Drew, CV, Version 2, 2021, Final, Final. Don't want that. You don't want that. And like this one, I think, I mean, sometimes I've seen the CV and Portfolio things, which are good, but unless you've nailed it. Stick with what works, CV and [00:35:00] Portfolio. You can be gutsy when you've had practice and you can do things, but this quote at the time.

So I've opened this up, I don't, I know this guy's a Web Deserver, this is part two. Imagine this, right, so this is on the front page. Yep. Okay, then the next page, so already printed two pages. Pieces of paper out this Daniel's killing my printer. And because it's black background is hammering my printer if I'm printing it out.

And so we've got you a cover and letter. I kind of like the signature here. If you want to do a cover and letter, you can do a cover and letter. Okay. I'm not saying, I'm just saying they're not as important as the CV and portfolio. So now I'm on page four to get to the CV, but I kind of like this layout ish.

So far, it's the best one so far. Well, right.

Will Ridgway: I think so as well. So

Stephen Drew: far. Oh, sorry. Let me move my bar in. Will remind me to put the bar in because, sorry. It's okay. We're just trying to concentrate. Okay. So what works so [00:36:00] far? The name's okay. You got what you are down here and then the contact details. I like that all the contact details are in one slim bar and they're at the top and you just got them there.

Okay. Cause, cause the whole point. is to make sure that someone rings you up for the job. Other thing while we're here, Will, so we'll do banner number six, I need to do, I missed one. Make sure that the contact details, details work. Okay. It's like the whole point is to get your job. And it sounds bizarre, but I have done it where numbers don't work.

I try to ring someone to get them. Uh, to speak to them and I can't get ahold of them. Emails don't work. I've had emails being full. I've had, um, voicemail, um, inboxes, which are full. Well, do you know what I mean? I can't leave a message. So you've got to make sure that your, [00:37:00] uh, Your contact details are bang on.

Just before you go in, well, I actually went, um, to switch in mobile phones when I was looking for a job and the guy rang me up while I was switching mobile phones and I said, sorry, I was just switching mobile phones this morning. And you know what he said on the phone? He was like, yeah, that's not good as in, and I was like, no.

And then he's like, well, we'll still book this interview in. But I felt such on the back foot and it really. Put a damper on it. So make sure that the contact details work and they're at the top. Um, well, you were going to say something there.

Will Ridgway: I can't remember. I've forgotten already. Don't worry,

Stephen Drew: we'll move, we'll move on.

So this is dead space. Okay. So just get rid of this. And the other thing that I always find interesting is that everyone, including myself, before you look at this, everyone loves to title what the pages are. Cover letter. CV! I know what a CV is. Get rid of that, right? We know what it is. [00:38:00] It's a CV. So just jump straight into the about me bit, okay?

I'm Daniel Jones. I'm a web developer and web designer from Bali, Indonesia. Okay, right. So this is a much more literal example than the others. I am Stephen Drew, part two, uh, Architectural Assistant, immediately available in London. Okay. And then you put one or two things like, I am looking for an architectural practice in central London where I can do my part two, da, da, da.

I'm immediately available. I'm immediately available from March. Okay. That's much more literal and useful. Um, try not to go off on a tangent. Like my life's purpose is to be a da, da, da, da, um, or I have a super passion for sustainable design and I am a creative thinker. Okay, that's fine. You can say that you're sustainable in the interview, but the important bit is that you're a part two, be smart about it.

I am a part two, Architectural Assistant, immediately available with Revit. And I had got a 2 1 in my course. I'm ready to go. You know, it's much more [00:39:00] literal. So I can. You know, this part two I can use, uh, on my project with Revit, and you must be smart because you got it 2 1. You don't need to say you're smart, put your grades down, or put whatever, because that says you're smart without you saying, I am smart.

You know what I

Will Ridgway: mean? Personally, I don't mind the amount of space he's taken up for the About Me section, because it's pretty concise. Also, I don't know what the content is. Um, but it doesn't take up much space at all, so I think it's fine.

Stephen Drew: Fair enough.

Will Ridgway: Do you think, what about this though,

Stephen Drew: Will?

Will Ridgway: I'll get rid of that completely, what's the point?

Yeah,

Stephen Drew: yeah. See, and this is it. So like, while me and Will agree on a few points, everyone, remember, everyone has a difference of opinion. So you want to touch base with, you want to just kind of, Basically make, avoid the mistakes that everyone makes that is easily avoidable, right? So hopefully this is kind of starting to make you think.

It's making you think. Good to put this at the top. Good to put the about me at the top and the contact details clearly. And with this, [00:40:00] it's not too bad. But what I would argue, well, just thinking out loud, you could probably squash all this to there. You could move the skills across, right? Yeah. And then you'd have more room for the employment.

Will Ridgway: Yeah, I agree completely, because it's nothing for the education, so you can quite easily push it across. Yeah,

Stephen Drew: the bar's so big, and bars again, right? So I'd say like one year, five year. 5. Personal preference. I like to be literal. Let me just check the comments. Um, so on. It's got a good point. Yeah. Please don't use your current employment email or use a personal one.

That is simply your name. Not like, yes, I completely agree. Shot the amount. I'll tell you, one of my friends emails, which reminds me, so I'm Welsh, one of my mates emails is woollywelchbloke, okay? And what you don't want to do is be woollywelchbloke at [00:41:00] Hotmail, because that's what was around, or yahoo. com.

You, you want to completely, um, you want to use a professional email. So really, really good point. I'm going to keep that app actually. Thank you, Sean. Super, super useful. Good example with Sean would be sean. page. com. at GoogleMail. com. So mine is S J, so, oh, my, I'm not going to say where it was. What is your email?

Oh no, I almost outed my email, but it's my two initials and my, and my surname. Uh, at something. com, you know, so it's good to have a really professional, uh, email as well. Great. Oh, this, this is cool. This is probably the best one we've done so far in terms of like this template, if you were to use a template is one that you could actually, I think, get out and make it decent.

But you should always try and do these yourself from the start. So you've got your employment. I would have liked to see more employment, but you've got the dates here. It all kind of works. It's got a concise order. Now, [00:42:00] references. We haven't talked about references so far. Um, um, so you can always, I think, and I used to put references available upon request, but always include references, include references if you can, but you don't need to, uh, you don't need to put the mobile phone on there.

You can say, I have a reference from the art director at Norman Foster's Available, or I can arrange the reference on request, so I personally prefer that because it's kind of like the halfway point so that you have references. You can. It shows that you can substantiate them, but you don't need to plastic Kevin's phone number all over the Internet.

You know,

Will Ridgway: I agree. Don't put the contact details in. I mean, you can put you can put the name or say, you know, What their position is, so it looks like a [00:43:00] genuine reference that you can obtain. But if you don't have the preferences available, you don't even need to put preferences available upon request because That's, um, obvious, really.

You can just leave it out completely, I think.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, and with references, the peck in the order is obviously if you can get a reference from your line manager or a client you've worked with, that's the golden goose. Um, but your tutor, a reference from your tutor is equally good if you're in university. And also character references are great for your first time job if you're a graduate.

So saying something like, um, you know, say I was in the rugby club. Then, you know, the team leader or something like that. Uh, what they call Well, 'cause you're a sports person. The captain. The captain. Captain, yeah. The captain. Yes, the captain. Oh no.

Will Ridgway: Yeah, I, I was . Well, I dunno, the captain or the manager Depends on who you're specifically targeting here, but Yeah, the club

Stephen Drew: leader or something.

Or say now you coach, you do Yeah, the coach. Yeah, the coach. That's what I [00:44:00] was looking for. The coach would say Will works really hard. Do you know what I mean? If you had coach, coach Daniels down there or whatever. I think that that would help. So references do try to put them in if you can, but they see education.

I mean, I wouldn't put it there. And that's normally where I put the references and like the last stuff, but you could, you would reference with education. This is kind of the size I would do. And I would maybe put it over there so that you can. So suddenly you have your education there, so it's about being really resourceful.

Ah, that's the word we want here Will, really resourceful.

Will Ridgway: Yeah, I think it really, it does really depend though on your, where you are in your career. Of course, if you're very early on your career, then the education section is going to be a lot bigger and so it's not going to be tucked away in the corner.

However, if you've got 10 years of professional experience, that education, you don't really need to Refer to it. It's just there in a, there in a small space. That's all you need to do, really. Yeah. So it's important. It's different for everyone. So whatever we talk about isn't specific, specifically going to cover every person at [00:45:00] different points in their career.

It's going to be one or the other more often than not.

Stephen Drew: I agree. And this is an interesting point, putting your contact details on, um, More than one pages can sometimes be effective. Now this page is complete filler, so I don't know if you need this, but let's go, let's talk about portfolios so far. So now I've seen it two ways.

So there's, there's kind of two ways to go about it. I've seen sometimes a strong CV like at the front, and then I've seen people do like, what's a miniature sample portfolio. Inside the CV, which can be two or three pages and works, but typically what, um, this, you could do a portfolio document, which is a few pages, one to 10 pages, maybe 15 and a push, but that's probably a lot in a separate portfolio.

So it's up to you whether you include a CV and portfolio in the same file. But typically, I think that a portfolio should be a separate [00:46:00] PDF. I've seen it a lot of the times where I send a CV and portfolio together and the architectural practice will go, where is the portfolio? Because people don't go to the sheet.

So have a think about what works for you. Are you going to put a CV, one or two pages, and then jump to this kind of portfolio? Or are you going to do a big portfolio, a bigger portfolio that you send with an email? Now, me and Will are going to do portfolios next week, so don't worry too much about portfolios.

We will do, I think, Tuesday again. I think Will works for us, isn't it? And we will go over portfolios and we will talk about The current ways that the kind of things that works, but I'm quite enjoying this. So far, this kind of CV format. Well, I think, yeah, I got

Will Ridgway: a lot of reactions to it. I think it's quite genuine.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I think so too. So I'm going to, uh, let's have a quick look at one or two. So this one's the same. So we're going to, this one is rubbish and I think we covered off better, so we don't need that. Well, I think [00:47:00] we're going to end on this bit and then what I'm going to do is. Maybe we talk a little bit more theory for 10 more minutes or so, Will, and if anyone has any questions, then they can ask it to us here.

So, guys and gals, anyone listening, if you've got any questions, please let me know. And, while I'm here, if you've got any questions after this, you can find me and Will. Um, me a bit more than Will. Um, it's just because Will has a life, and I should have a life, Will, but I don't. I have less of a life than

Will Ridgway: the Architecture Social.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, and I love the Architecture Social. And it's getting to a point now, Will, where it's much more interesting. As a community, it's growing. And it's really interesting that I'm not the only person talking there. And it's really living, breathing on its own. But if you want to go to a supportive environment, where you can even post your CV and portfolio for comments, you can do it in the Architecture Social.

Obviously, remove your contact details. I would much prefer that and a GDPR. Uh, I don't, you know, it's more about talking [00:48:00] about your CV and portfolios, but you can do that in the Architecture Social. It's a safe place to do it. So moving on. So we got Alex looking very, um, would you put an image of you sucking a straw wheel in a portfolio CV?

It's a bit, it's a bit, um, Wow, OK, point is, I'm having a joke, but don't put a picture of you sucking a straw, OK?

Will Ridgway: I

Stephen Drew: think

Will Ridgway: it's a pencil to be sort of like, uh, like looking like it's about to draw something really good. Yeah, now I see. But at the same time, clearly you thought it was a straw, so let's just get rid of it completely.

Stephen Drew: Point is, Will's right, it's a pencil, but I thought it was a straw. And people will be making these quick decisions looking at your CV on the basis. And while you're having a giggle about this being. Alex sucking a straw. What you don't want to do is to have people distracted away from your work because immediately me and Will are having a giggle about this picture.

I, Will knows me, I've [00:49:00] got the attention span of 10 seconds, something pops in, I'm suddenly, you know, taking a call in the office and Alex's CV's down. So you always want to hit people with the goods. So this, okay, is quite, You know, it's a classic kind of layout here, isn't it? Well, we've got the, you know, the contact details, um, we've got the little profile.

I think, like you said, I think it's probably a bit too long for me, but I'm guessing for you it's like kind of a good length because you like a little bit more there, which is fine. Isn't it well, so?

Will Ridgway: Yes, it's fine. It depends on what really what the content is, uh, and also if you have a covering letter as well, then it's, you don't need to put as much in the profile if you're sending it with a covering letter.

Yeah. But it's just more about where you are at available immediately. That's really what you need to put in my opinion.

Stephen Drew: Alright, so, so, fair enough. So, this kind of CV, what I was thinking of, is probably a really good choice. Like size layout for a graduate, you know, it's not too long. It kind of hits the nail on the head.

I [00:50:00] think when you're working in the industry, you're probably going to need a second page, especially when you get to the point of being qualified, because it's just really hard to put all the juicy information that you need in that experience bit. So do not feel, don't feel like, the worst thing you can do is almost like cram too much on one page.

Allow stuff to breathe. Like this page actually is probably This one and the other one we've done before are much better examples than the first one of good graphic design layout because everything breathes. Alex is up here enjoying his pencil. It kind of all, you know, all like works. And what I like here, and this is the bit where we get to the 50 minute mark, so I'll reveal it.

My awesome triangle of three. Okay, so when you have a CV, the goal of it is to say clearly who you are. You put a little bit of this, but the magic free trio, which is good to get in your CV at [00:51:00] the start, is your current employment, right? And then they got, so that someone can instantly, number one, see the, uh, what you've done in industry.

They can see typically what your experience is. So you are a designer at Starbucks here, or, so say now you're a part three qualified architect at EPR Architects. Not that I know why you'd be looking, because they're an amazing employer. But you know, you put up there, so immediately someone knows what you are.

Then the second bit of the triangle, you want really close to this. You want it like here or something. So me, the triangle's here and the triangle I would do is education really briefly up here. Like this. So you see that you've got your Part 1, Part 2. It's really quick. You've got your work experience there.

And so I immediately know in the triangle that you are someone that got a 2 1. And you got your Part 3 qualified, or whatever, right? [00:52:00] And you've got your 2 1 up here, boom. You're a project architect at Stephen Drew Architects, which way architects, boom. And the third bit of the triangle is the software.

And that's it. Okay, so what I'm saying here now, think about it like you're an employer. If you can quickly see that free nuggets of information very quickly, you, you're gonna be interest, you're gonna be of serious interest. Okay, so if you can somehow explain that you are a part free qualified architect with residential and commercial experience at EPR architects with four years, Revit.

You're going to get a job interview. So it's kind of like my, it's the theory of free or is it a theory of four? We'll see if it's free or four, but like, I've just invented this on the spot. Trademark trade. Don't, don't, don't rip it off everyone.

Will Ridgway: Pretty funny. You got inspiration from it somewhere else.

Stephen Drew: Yeah. There'll be like hundreds of them. So damn, damn, damn. That was my, that was like [00:53:00] my, my. My course in the making gone, joking around, but why I feel this is so important is because it's like, why I'm saying it's a triangle, it's like if you can get these three bits and you rename this to Education or you renamed it to Qualification or whatever, and you've got it down here, it's really quick and you go boom, boom, boom, the I goes to the three things in the CV, and the top half of the CV is the most important bit, you've got down here your little one.

And maybe you put the profile description here. I am a part two, da da da da da. Okay, yeah, you can see I am a part two. Qualified, 2 1. Boom. Industry experience at EPR Actics. Boom. Then you've got your Revit. And you, rather than say in this bar, because that means nothing, you say four years. So you have a literal experience of three.

So I don't know if it's quite educational qualifications where I'm going with, but it's like, Qualified, [00:54:00] what your job title is and where you're working and the, uh, with the sectors in the job description and the software, I think that is my, the powerful combination. What do you think, Will? Is it craziness or was it

Will Ridgway: worth the wait?

No, I completely agree. I think those are definitely the three most important things and whether it's qualifications, education, Same, it's the same thing. I think the difference for certain points in your career, if you're a lot more professional, you've got more professional experience, then qualifications is probably what you're going to name it.

Um, but, um, yeah, I think that's important because for me, if I'm looking, if I've been briefed by an architecture practice, say they're looking for someone with aviation Revit. And they are a project architect, for example, those are three things I'm going to look for in the CV. So if I can immediately identify them when I look at a CV, that's going to help me pick up the phone and give it, give them a ring.

So, yeah.

Stephen Drew: Well, there we go. We [00:55:00] uncovered the mystery together. Next time, I'm going to write up the points. Well, I got to, I got to seven and then we kind of, we kind of, I went off. Sorry, I see a 10 second attention span. It's alright. Absolutely. But I embrace it because, uh, while in some sense it's a weakness, this is a strength.

I'm just kidding. No, no, no, no. You're cool. I know it. I always tell you. Why joke about it? You've got to laugh about these things. But you know with me, Will, if the CV grabs my attention in 10 seconds and I'm excited, Typically, it'll grab a client's attention, because while I have a short attention span, clients are busy.

I'm not saying they're not paying attention, I think they've got distractions everywhere. So if you can get a client excited about your CV in that 10 seconds, you've won. You know how people say, uh, they make a first impression. You know when you meet someone, someone's made a first impression and it's very hard to claw back [00:56:00] from that?

That's kind of true. And I think it's like a CV, okay, because if you don't catch someone's attention in the first five to ten seconds, are they going to click and keep going? Or are they going to switch off? And now, I think they're more likely to switch off. And my, I'm not saying all employers, but look at it like web design.

I do web, uh, web design, part of the architecture social. So what I do, cause I work a night, I work my day job. I work at McDonald company. Uh, I lead the architecture team with Will, is amazing. He's on my team as well. That's what I do there. But outside of hours, I've done a bit of web design and what I've learned well, is that if someone doesn't like the website in the first three to five seconds, they click away.

And I think that's very similar to what we see in terms of our day job at McDonald's company a lot. I think employers will only [00:57:00] really look at CVs that are bad, long, or we would never send a CV bad. But what I'm saying is if a CV is not on point or they feel it's not on point, they will only really keep reading if they're desperate to fill the role.

And usually There's choice especially now in a pandemic so you need to stand out so you should Make it really, really clear all the awesome stuff you offer. Okay, so let's look as a summary now at the points we made, and I'm sure there's one or two more I didn't write up and we'll, we'll add them to the end.

But number one, make an impact, be efficient with the space. you can use to grab their attention. So this is the better example of the ones we've seen before, but I would personally change things a little bit different.

Will Ridgway: I think there's still some space issues you can change with that one as well. You can, yeah, yeah, sorry.

Stephen Drew: No, all cool. I agree. Well, and so second, put your most recent work experience at the [00:58:00] forefront of your CV. Be specific and literal with the description of your experience in industry. Part 2, Architectural Assistant working on a large scale residential scheme in London. RIBA stages 2 to 4. Yeah, that kind of thing.

Be really clear with the dates of employment and embrace the gaps because You can clearly explain them, you can explain them clearly in an interview. Okay. Better that than hiding things. Be really specific with your software skills. How many years you've used the software is better than a generalization of 4 out of 10.

Make sure that the contact details work because you want them to call you at the end of the interview and I should have added to here, make sure that they're clear and easy to find at the top. Okay. Always include references if you can, but you do not need to put the contact details in. Just who the person is and [00:59:00] what company.

Coach Daniels at Will Ridgeway's Rugby Club. Or, um, your team leader at the architecture practice. Make sure, and this is the one I would write up now, that the most important information gets seen at the front. and not overlooked. There's no point in being in the third page. You need to be there at the front and grab their attention.

And that typically is your work experience, your software, and if you're qualified in your education. But the qualified in education is literally in the third page. A tick. It's a tick. No one cares about, uh, you know, what modules you've got, this and that. Oh, typically. I've seen a few employers which will resonate towards stuff, but in general, you can always go into that in the interview.

These are the things, these are the most common things we see. If you apply [01:00:00] this somewhere like Heatherwick Studios, you might want to conclude a little bit more about your hand drawing, or your thesis, or stuff that you've done like building exhibitions at Burning Man, okay? But if you're applying to a large scale architectural practice, these are the kind of things, especially a commercial architecture practice, typically goes through.

Okay, so, Here we go. Let me see. I've got one or two comments here. Let me see. Um, here we go. Nora says, I think though in design it is different. Yes, it's great to have experience in Revit and good to have a capture in CV, but we are much more than that. Design as a package of personality plays a big role.

So how? Will they get to know us as designers more than technical robots? No, think of this like the brief, okay? Think of it like the design. You have the same parameters as everyone else. You've got to convey your CV and portfolio and grab their attention so [01:01:00] you can get the interview. Okay, what we're trying to do is like get you in the door to get you in to meet them so you can show your beautiful personality and show all the stuff you can do, but you've got to get people through the door.

Unfortunately in life, it's like Tinder profiles, like everything, people make decisions really quickly. And so you're not a rent, you're not a, um, a robot per se, far from that. But think about it like a business owner. He needs someone. Who is going to be able not to crash the Revit model and he needs someone that can join that's got a they're part two and you know has maybe done a little bit of industry experience or maybe they want someone that they feel is going to be hard working and how do you convey someone hard working well it could be the grades you've got of course but Doing extracurriculum stuff, getting involved in competitions, that's going to be really the stuff that stands out.

And I think that if you've put in all [01:02:00] your, um, your competitions and all this beautiful stuff you've done, then you've, you, you transcend from being just a robot. And so what we're doing is, this is the skill of showcasing your stuff. And I think to end, one of the quotes I would say is, Uh, one, um, one of the managing directors of a large architectural practice said to me, Steve, I'm often amazed that you sometimes get typos and yet, well, that's the last bonus at the end.

We forgot to mention, spell check everything, make sure there's no typos there and double check it with a friend. But he said to me where I said, Steve, I'm always amazed that an architect, someone who's going to be designing buildings, going to be putting in planning submissions, going to do beautiful documentation, has mistakes.

On this CV and portfolio, this should be the most important document that you work on in your career, because it is your career. Do you get what I mean? It's your career. It's your thing. So that's why it's super, [01:03:00] super important. So. You can definitely put a lot of love into it. You can definitely, you can inject your magic.

But what I want to do is for someone to see the full round awesomeness of you and to get the points across which they're looking for. So, okay, that's me. Um, What I would say is we can end on a note there, but Oh, I've got one question from Lena at the end, which is a tricky one, but Hey, I like tricky questions.

If you're a student that fully hasn't had any experience, then you wouldn't really have much with, with experienced software programs, but you can still use them fairly well from uni. So how can you show that an experience that you're proficient in programs without using those bars, but still without saying that you've Only use them so and so for a year.

I would just say, Lina, that I would say you've used the software for two years during academia. And then if you could do them in industry, then say it then. But [01:04:00] we've got people jobs before on the fact that they do have that experience during academia. So I would still say if you've used Revit, I would say you have used it for the last year of your academia.

Yeah, so think about it from that point of view, um, you can always put it in and it's always worthwhile and while you're in university, it's always good to use this, try to, um, uh, try to use the softwares that employers are going to use. I know that using a Revit BIM model is not ideal when you're trying to do awesome designs.

in academia at the start because you're going to be Revit's going to be clunky to use but maybe doing aspects of your building in Revit that could be the thing that is going to clinch you the job

Will Ridgway: or if you've done courses as well sorry if you've done courses in Revit for example say you've done Um, 50 hours, use it during a Revit course as well.

You put that into the skills section.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, [01:05:00] exactly. And then you can do them online. There's LinkedIn ones online. You can do courses. That's a fantastic suggestion. So, Madge says, should we include short term work experience, two months or would it look bad? My personal opinion is, um, when you're further in your career, you can take stuff away.

So like, on my CV now, if I was updating it, not that I would McDonald and Company, but if I did, well, I wouldn't put on my role at Waitrose anymore because I passed that. But even though I worked there for a year and a half, I don't need it anymore. So I kind of don't need it anymore. But I think Like two of the three months when you've done a few years in experience, you don't need to put in your CV anymore.

But I think if you've done two months recently, it's still really good to put on because it shows you've had experience there and you can just say for reasons, X, Y, Z, why you're looking for a new job. You can talk about the pandemic. I mean, there's always going to be. [01:06:00] an element with two months or something short where you're worried about will people make a judgment and you just need to you need to first of all get comfortable with yourself okay because if you're paranoid about the two months that's not the CV it's not the piece of paper that's your Mental problem with worrying about how you're going to explain it.

So you need to, first of all, come to terms with it, say now you've been made redundant. It's just not, it's not ideal. You come to terms with it, you explain in your head why it wasn't the right fit. And when you're in an interview, you would explain it was great experience. It wasn't quite the right fit for X, Y, Z.

But what I've learned from it is ABC and you can speak to them over here or something like that. You can normally get a reference from most people as well. And sometimes, sometimes places aren't the right fit. I've seen people who work three, four months at one place that doesn't work. And then they work for four or five years in the next architectural [01:07:00] practice.

But that is more about your psychology and. And, um, how you feel being comfortable with short stints, so don't worry about that. Let's, so let's close the session here, Will. Yep. I think that's going to be it, guys. Um, I had fun. This is quite a long session for us, Will, but I feel like we covered a lot of ground.

I need to have a glass of water. My throat's gone. Yeah, I'm sorry. I came prepared with mine. Ah, brilliant. Thank you everyone. It's been an absolute pleasure. You can join me on the Architecture Social. Boom. Join me and Will. Say hello. And next week and tomorrow in the live stream, we will be live again on LinkedIn at 1pm where we do the Architecture Social show, which is more like me and Will blowing off steam, learning a little bit about all the projects on the week and having a bit of [01:08:00] banter and fun and learning a few things along the way.

Whereas we are going to next week talk about how to go about portfolios. It could be one. It could be two, because portfolios is quite a big topic, and I need to find some, um, template portfolios, um, so that we can just freestyle around. I think it's worked out well, hasn't it, um, talking about these templates, because it keeps the conversation moving, doesn't it?

Will Ridgway: Yeah, I think if you've got a visual representation in front of you, it's quite easy to critique it, other than just saying, check spelling, for example. You can actually visually see it. I think it's much better this way.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, well last week, last year me and Will did the same thing with Jack Moran, uh, who still works alongside us.

He does as well, planning now, so he's kind of specialized, um, as well. And we, it was just all three of us, well, wasn't it, talking, but I think this is definitely better. Next year, we're We'll have 3D CVs, won't we? Yes, 3D.

Will Ridgway: Augmented reality CVs. Or we can get like an eye tracking thing and you can use it [01:09:00] to see where you're looking on the CV and see what grabs your attention.

That'd be pretty cool. That

Stephen Drew: would be cool. Well, on that note. Okay, guys, so I am going to call it there next week. We will be back with Portfolios. You can check us out there and I have got, let's get a little bit of David Brent. So there we go. We have, we, we haven't got music. We haven't got the soundboard, but we'll have a bit of David Brent.

See you next week. Bye Will.