Reimagining Workplaces: Exploring the Future of Office Design with Hollie Welch at dMFK

0235 - Reimagining Workplaces: Exploring the Future of Office Design with Hollie Welch at dMFK
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[00:00:00]

Introduction and Setting the Scene
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Stephen Drew: Hello everyone.

Stephen Drew: This is a special I'm in virtual studio

Stephen Drew: today.

Stephen Drew: I'm actually in a really cool architecture practice and

Stephen Drew: you know, it's a really nice

Stephen Drew: office to be in. I think

Stephen Drew: we're gonna

Stephen Drew: talk a

Stephen Drew: bit

Stephen Drew: about that

Stephen Drew: today.

Meet Holly Welsh: Journey into Architecture
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Stephen Drew: So I've got a special guest here who is, I'm so

Stephen Drew: excited

Stephen Drew: to do this

Stephen Drew: with You're laughing all the

Stephen Drew: time.

Stephen Drew: Now you're not. You're amazing. But yeah, so I've

Stephen Drew: got

Stephen Drew: awesome Associate Director, Architect, Holly Welsh from

Stephen Drew: DMFK

Stephen Drew: DMFK.

Stephen Drew: Holly how are you?

Hollie Welch: Hello, I'm good thanks, how are

Hollie Welch: I'm

Stephen Drew: alright you know it's a nice day, you've got a beautiful view

Stephen Drew: out here.

Hollie Welch: We've got a moody backdrop today, in fact the heavens have opened. But here we are, I think the office is still looking good

Stephen Drew: Yeah,

Stephen Drew: looks great. Quick one before we go

Stephen Drew: into it.

Stephen Drew: Did you design this little fit

Stephen Drew: out then

Stephen Drew: or?

Stephen Drew: were you part of

Stephen Drew: the team?

Stephen Drew: I'd say say it was definitely part of the design development. It's sort of taken cues from some of the other office fit outs that we've that we've the area.

Hollie Welch: Um So not taking total credit [00:01:00] but

Hollie Welch: it was definitely a team collaborative.

Stephen Drew: that's

Stephen Drew: good attitude, you know, not taking all the credit.

Stephen Drew: credit But no, I really appreciate it. So, while we know each other a little

Stephen Drew: bit, some of the

Stephen Drew: people in the audience,

Stephen Drew: they might not

Stephen Drew: have met you before. Can you just

Stephen Drew: tell us a little bit about yourself first and

Stephen Drew: foremost

Hollie Welch: Yeah. How far do we want to go?

Stephen Drew: You know,

Stephen Drew: what made you get into architecture then?

Hollie Welch: Okay.

Early Career and Education
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Hollie Welch: So I studied back in, um, I'm from the northeast in case the accent isn't obvious.

Hollie Welch: Um, I was actually encouraged to go and study architecture by

Hollie Welch: my art teacher at the time

Hollie Welch: back

Hollie Welch: school, shout out

Hollie Welch: Stokesie School Um, and then went on to study at Northumbria University there, did my BA there for the first three years. It was really great actually, because obviously we went into that, not I say we, as a collective, me

Hollie Welch: and my friends still very close friends, with not really knowing what the course would entail and not really understanding anything about the architectural

Hollie Welch: profession either.

Hollie Welch: Um the school was really [00:02:00] successful at that time, it was quite small, so it actually meant that we got a

Hollie Welch: lot

Hollie Welch: of one to one time and engagement with tutors who, a lot of them at the time were practicing in Newcastle as well. Um so that was really fantastic. And then reached the sort of year out stage there, and I studied with Practice Space Architects, and they are based out in Long Benton, so just sort of outside of Newcastle, and they specialize in a lot of civic projects rather than commercial, or sort of big, um, like master plan, hotel, you know, that kind of, um, that kind of sector, a bit of residential and educational.

Hollie Welch: um so I hadn't really worked in any Um, any commercial fit out prior to that. Um, then I went back to do my masters again at

Hollie Welch: Northumbria University. And then finishing the Masters I decided it was the

Joining DMFK and Early Projects
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Hollie Welch: time to come down to London. Um, I was really quite selective [00:03:00] about where I wanted to go at the time.

Hollie Welch: I'd done Lots of research and had some interviews, some successful, some not, and then had my interview with DMFK,

Hollie Welch: um,

Hollie Welch: at the time the office was based up in West Hampstead, um, so for anyone who knows West Hampstead, It was sort of quite suburban

Hollie Welch: I'd say um and we were housed in

Hollie Welch: the old library buildings sort of like quite quaint really,

Hollie Welch: um

Hollie Welch: and I remember, sort of.

Hollie Welch: walking

Hollie Welch: in there sort of

Hollie Welch: immediately feeling like an energy and a bit of a vibe Um and I sort of thought hmm I can definitely see myself sort of fitting in here.

Hollie Welch: Um so that would have been the end of 2016. Um,

Hollie Welch: so I started at DMFK 2017, um, been here for nearly 8 years, famously first

Hollie Welch: day was on the

Hollie Welch: Christmas party Really?

Hollie Welch: That's dangerous, that

Hollie Welch: can go

Hollie Welch: either

Stephen Drew: way.

Hollie Welch: Yeah, I was quite reserved at the time, so I

Hollie Welch: went along for a few hours and

Hollie Welch: then came away,

Hollie Welch: But anyway, so yeah. I've been with DMFK for nearly eight years. It's just been [00:04:00] really

Hollie Welch: fantastic to see how we've grown, um, as we discussed earlier sort of fell into doing the commercial work really.

Hollie Welch: I'd always had

Hollie Welch: an appetite for looking more at the sort of internal spaces, not sort of interior

Hollie Welch: architecture but sort of having a go at that, having not really Experienced or been exposed to that at all up in

Hollie Welch: Newcastle Um, and then, you know, slowly got on to some projects

Hollie Welch: and it sort of you know, went from there.

Hollie Welch: Um and you know sort of this office, I suppose

Hollie Welch: is the sort of culmination of the development of workspace design that we've worked on, you

Hollie Welch: know as a team and.

Hollie Welch: You know it's sort of an exciting time for us.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, no,

Stephen Drew: it's really cool.

Stephen Drew: So, when you

Stephen Drew: jumped

Stephen Drew: into commercial projects

Stephen Drew: back in 2017, the landscape

Stephen Drew: of

Stephen Drew: and when we say commercial, we

Stephen Drew: mean offices, right?

Stephen Drew: So, it was very different back

Stephen Drew: then, so

Stephen Drew: But even myself, so in

Stephen Drew: 2015, I used to rent a WeWork office, which at the time was like a glass cubicle. And then

Stephen Drew: you'd have these[00:05:00]

Stephen Drew: big sprawling

Stephen Drew: offices.

Impact of the Pandemic on Office Design
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Stephen Drew: But then of course, midway from here and then, the pandemic happened, right? So what was

Stephen Drew: The office is like

Stephen Drew: you were designing before, and then

Stephen Drew: what was

Stephen Drew: that massive shock to the system

Stephen Drew: like?

Hollie Welch: Well

Hollie Welch: I suppose so. My first office project, so I've said I sort of didn't have any exposure to this really, and then the first, you know, commercial office space project that I worked for was a project,

Hollie Welch: um for TOG, um the office group. Oh really? Yeah, yeah, so obviously we've been sort of long term

Hollie Welch: collaborators

Hollie Welch: with

Hollie Welch: them. Okay,

Stephen Drew: because they're quite

Stephen Drew: bougie spaces. you

Stephen Drew: know, I like it.

Stephen Drew: yeah, it's a good, it's a good

Stephen Drew: office TOG.

Stephen Drew: So we've

Hollie Welch: we've done up until this point, so I think this would have been Maybe late 2017, early 2018, they'd acquired a space in one Canada square, um Canary Wharf, so iconic Cesare Pelli

Hollie Welch: designed building, the sort of, you know, the landmark of Canary Wharf.

Hollie Welch: And they'd taken three floors.

Hollie Welch: 9

Hollie Welch: So

Hollie Welch: [00:06:00] it was working on

Hollie Welch: the sort of the fit out of that space and trying to incorporate at the time the the office group service office space product within that space. I think

Hollie Welch: I'm

Hollie Welch: I'm I think I'm,

Hollie Welch: correct in saying that at the time. That was their sort of,

Hollie Welch: their largest

Hollie Welch: acquisition So it was sort of developing a model.

Hollie Welch: that was already quite successful in that, you know, allowing tenants to come in, you know, two person studio, four person office, and to be able to expand, you know, expand or reduce in scale, but then sort of retaining the identity of the building that they're working within.

Evolution of Office Spaces
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Hollie Welch: I think that that was

Hollie Welch: something that was super Yeah.

Hollie Welch: Um so yeah, going on to

Hollie Welch: One Canada Square. You know, it's some

Hollie Welch: 90 000 square

Hollie Welch: feet of workspace I don't want to get into get into it too much because we'll be here all day. Yeah, Oh, that's cool. forever about it Um, Really, really great project. The way that we approached the interiors was to sort of draw from the existing building So it's obviously, it's [00:07:00] very sort

Hollie Welch: of late 80s, early 90s, like high commercial, high corporate architecture.

Hollie Welch: It's sort of how we would lean into. that, um, but sort of incorporate it in a contemporary way. And I think, you know, off record or maybe on record it's still one of my favorite projects. Unfortunately, the sort of timing of that delivery was, um,

Hollie Welch: unfortunate

Hollie Welch: in that it completed

Hollie Welch: around 2019 obviously Right at the end.

Hollie Welch: So November then COVID hit. so You know, and Canary

Hollie Welch: Wharf one of the sort of most hard hit locations in terms of scale of office

Hollie Welch: space working from home, um, so I think that, you know, the way that we still approach the office space design is still very

Hollie Welch: much the same but I think that Todd was sort of at the forefront of looking at how To attract people, how to retain people, how to get people into those spaces rather

Hollie Welch: than working from [00:08:00] home. You know,

Hollie Welch: effectively It's the start up co work which in principle is trying to get people a space to work at that isn't their people

Stephen Drew: a space to work at that isn't their home, you know? talk

Stephen Drew: is better, right? But we worked

Stephen Drew: on kick me out Also.

Stephen Drew: but it is cool

Stephen Drew: how it's changed, because

Stephen Drew: I think

Stephen Drew: the designs at the time was more about these big offices and then the breakout spaces where maybe they get a coffee too. However, is there now a more of an appetite for people to come in,

Stephen Drew: bring

Stephen Drew: their laptops, collaborate, open

Stephen Drew: space? So has it like changed the rule book in that kind of area?

Hollie Welch: Yeah I think the thing is, it's just providing people,

Hollie Welch: occupants tenants with a choice of where where, they want to work and how they

Hollie Welch: want to work, you know Varying degrees of privacy and openness. And obviously we've seen that sort of, Dial up to the next level now with requirements for,

Hollie Welch: you know you know,

Hollie Welch: uh video calling, which obviously existed

Hollie Welch: prior to the pandemic but now almost across the board, um you know, [00:09:00] across all the clients that we work

Hollie Welch: with whether, you know, that's, legal, whether it's sort of like project management, everybody, or educational even, you know everybody wants to

Hollie Welch: enhance their facilities to be able to accommodate,

Hollie Welch: you know people to take Zoom calls, video calls, and to touch on your point about the WeWorks very sort

Hollie Welch: of successful At the time But I think there's sort of the

Hollie Welch: attraction

Hollie Welch: for those spaces, um, or the sort of want to be in those

Hollie Welch: spaces sort of diminished with the growth of sort of video calls, et cetera. because there's no control over acoustics, you you know? And I think that's, that's a fundamental

Hollie Welch: sort of design or office etiquette issue that lots of clients are trying to address in their fit outs So it's less about You know, You know placement of gestural furniture and more about functional, practical spaces that enable people to work while, you know, allowing other people to

Hollie Welch: sit quietly, you

Stephen Drew: know,

Hollie Welch: so.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, so was it then a case of the [00:10:00] rule book as it

Stephen Drew: was

Stephen Drew: for commercial offices was ripped up and then there were people

Stephen Drew: like yourself were really thinking about honing in on.

Stephen Drew: What

Stephen Drew: does the client

Stephen Drew: need? What does the, in the, the person in

Stephen Drew: the office need

Stephen Drew: was it, were you learning as you're going

Stephen Drew: and then

Stephen Drew: F starting to identify what was really important going

Stephen Drew: forwards.

Hollie Welch: I think that there's I wouldn't necessarily say that the real book has changed. I Yeah. Yeah. I

Hollie Welch: think that,

Hollie Welch: um, you know, there's been a shift over the years from what would have been, you know, if you start I

Hollie Welch: say start at the beginning but you know, cellularized offices that you might associate with sort of in the 90s, so let's say the battery chicken operation

Stephen Drew: Yeah, the cubicle. The blue,

Stephen Drew: the blue boundaries,

Stephen Drew: pictures on the wall.

Hollie Welch: Yeah,

Hollie Welch: exactly. And then sort of moving from that towards much more open plan. Yeah. Um, and then the sort of type of work that we would be doing, you know, sort of cat A So we'd find, um, or we'd be approached to Um I do redevelopment [00:11:00] building We'd be doing, lift lobby, WCs, maybe main reception.

Hollie Welch: And then the office space would be let as cat A And then sort of how that's then developed in terms of managing the space How that's then developed to target, you know what people want from the space and, you know, not to loop back to talk you know that, you know, that really became focused on the amenities within the shared space within the offices.

Hollie Welch: So, um within the building, sorry. So while the offices might just be cate it's about providing all these amenities in the shared space that people can utilize. And also it's about sort of, you know, collaboration, community, creating a work environment where, you know, people go to communal spaces and they mix.

Hollie Welch: You get to get a break out of your own office space. So I think that, you know, component parts that we always look at when we approach these things, obviously it's demise reception, it's what we call break out That might be, you know, focused work. We always The FAMILY TABLES the family tables So kind of like we have in this office, a space that can be used [00:12:00] for informal collaboration, discussion.

Hollie Welch: Meeting room, obviously private meeting rooms as well, tea points for beverage, tea points and kitchenettes, you know, that sort of thing. Um, and I think as that evolves if you sort of take that as a product, then the sort of next evolution of that is okay, well, You some tenants, you know, are attracted to taking a space in that building with those shared amenities, but actually they don't necessarily want to share with DMFK next door because they've monopolized the, uh, or colonized maybe the breakout space. So, you know, how about we try and develop the product to share some of

Hollie Welch: these amenities between common

Hollie Welch: parts So you're still providing space for interaction and breakout, but then you're also

Hollie Welch: providing that sort of extra level of amenity within the demised office space. And I think that's what we would

Hollie Welch: We call the Cat B

Hollie Welch: approach. So

Hollie Welch: it's

Hollie Welch: sort of similar to what we've got here, So you know, all of those shared amenities are within the [00:13:00] one demise, so it's a sort of, it's a ready to go is another terminology

Hollie Welch: that we use or plug and play, and I think that

Hollie Welch: um

Hollie Welch: the evolution of that further brings us on to story.

Hollie Welch: Um which is, yeah,

Stephen Drew: the, important project, So for the

Stephen Drew: list, I'm going to edit it in a bit,

Stephen Drew: but you'll see some amazing pictures ooooh yeah, of

Stephen Drew: Story,

Stephen Drew: but please carry

Stephen Drew: on, so I'll splice the

Stephen Drew: images in.

Hollie Welch: Yeah. So obviously, you know, the, market is full of lots of office space providers. We've recently completed Story, which is a service office space product for British land.

Hollie Welch: they've got several locations all around Liverpool Street, sort of Broadgate area. I think that, um, they are really fantastic clients super, super engaged throughout the process, which has been really enjoyable. Um, they're engaged with the design process, but they're also incredibly focused on the end user as well.

Hollie Welch: And just really, I [00:14:00] feel like, They really sort of understand their client, or not their client, sorry, their

Hollie Welch: occupier

Hollie Welch: needs. And I think that they've evolved their product to suit. So, going on from what I said about the Cat B,

Hollie Welch: um the story product differs

Hollie Welch: in the sense that um or it stands out, let's say, because you still have the common parts with

Hollie Welch: your T point Your work tables, your enclosed focus booths, phone booths, etc. But then there's an enhanced provision within

Hollie Welch: the demised offices as well to provide, um, T points and meetings within those spaces also. So it's it's kind like, it's almost the next tier of amenity, if that makes sense. So while we're not sort of fitting them out to this sort of this level, you know, the idea is that a client, a tenant can come along, you know, they've got the identity of the postcode of that

Hollie Welch: building which I should have said is at 201

Stephen Drew: Bishopsgate we'll get

Stephen Drew: into more detail about

Stephen Drew: I'll put it all up, all that stuff [00:15:00] is magically here in the final

Stephen Drew: cut, so

Stephen Drew: don't

Stephen Drew: worry

Hollie Welch: So, you get the postcode, you get the building address, you know, you get the sort of grandeur and stature

Hollie Welch: of

Hollie Welch: the building,

Hollie Welch: arrival experience, etc. And then, um, you go up onto the floor, which

Hollie Welch: is the level 7 and then you're then welcomed by breakout spaces,

Hollie Welch: like really great, um, I say that building particularly, like, really great sense of space and volume, and we'll get into the detail of that a little more.

Hollie Welch: But then, you know, your office space as well has the same functionality as the common parts. I think

Hollie Welch: that's

Hollie Welch: just the sort of the next layer,

Hollie Welch: if you like very, very

Stephen Drew: cool. So,

Stephen Drew: that's clearly an

Stephen Drew: awesome and important project.

Stephen Drew: and I'm

Stephen Drew: sure

Stephen Drew: everyone

Stephen Drew: will agree that

Stephen Drew: it all

Stephen Drew: looks great.

Stephen Drew: What do you think

Stephen Drew: then, of

Stephen Drew: course, we never know which way the future will go,

Stephen Drew: The pandemic was like an indicator

Stephen Drew: of it

Stephen Drew: but what's your

Stephen Drew: sentiment for the future of commercial workplace

Stephen Drew: and offices then?

Stephen Drew: Do you see it

Stephen Drew: continuing

Stephen Drew: to [00:16:00] go down this directory, this

Stephen Drew: direction

Stephen Drew: per se?

Hollie Welch: I think the thing is, you know,

Hollie Welch: we,

Hollie Welch: we've got a lot, we collectively, deal with, we've got a lot of experience in the workplace

Hollie Welch: sector Um, you know, we work with a whole range of clients who are all great and all really

Hollie Welch: invested in the end product You know have we got the ultimate answer? No.

Hollie Welch: No Yeah, yeah. Um because you know it's it's it's tailored to the product.

Hollie Welch: Um it's tailored to also sorry it's not tailored to it's it's dictated by development budget.

Hollie Welch: Um I think it's also about the cost Not

Hollie Welch: everybody wants to take on a Cat B or an end user fit out space Um, I

Hollie Welch: suppose it's thinking about um like lease as well. Lease expiry Um, at

Hollie Welch: the moment we're getting,

Hollie Welch: when I sort of say,

Hollie Welch: um

Hollie Welch: Oh I've lost my train

Hollie Welch: of

Stephen Drew: of

Stephen Drew: thought.

Stephen Drew: Don't

Stephen Drew: worry

Hollie Welch: I've sort of sort of forgotten

Stephen Drew: the

Stephen Drew: original question No, don't

Stephen Drew: worry, we're talking about just

Stephen Drew: where

Stephen Drew: the industry

Stephen Drew: is [00:17:00] going.

Hollie Welch: I past that I knew and it totally distracted me.

Hollie Welch: Who

Stephen Drew: you know you're like, hey! It's

Hollie Welch: my friend

Stephen Drew: my friend, works at The World your friend. You're going to get a WhatsApp

Stephen Drew: chat saying what's happening

Hollie Welch: so he'll be like, what the hell are you

Hollie Welch: doing

Hollie Welch: in here I

Stephen Drew: I think

Stephen Drew: this should all

Stephen Drew: make it in, because it's real. Yeah it's a bit

Hollie Welch: of a

Stephen Drew: I like it.

Hollie Welch: out the

Hollie Welch: vacant expression

Hollie Welch: while

Hollie Welch: Now

Hollie Welch: you're,

Stephen Drew: you're,

Stephen Drew: you're, you're, you're just giving

Stephen Drew: out more and more. You're

Stephen Drew: giving

Stephen Drew: out so much to you.

Stephen Drew: I guess I'm just more interested in like the sentiment of

Stephen Drew: how positive do you feel like commercial work? But it seems like it's busy.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I'd

Hollie Welch: say it's busy. What I was getting to, sorry, my point about lease, uh lease expiring there's lots of buildings that are, you know, they're really well designed. Yeah, yeah. they are coming towards the end of their lease you know, buildings from around, let's say like 2005, 2010,

Hollie Welch: you know, the fit outs are dated, the services are dated.

Hollie Welch: A dated you know

Hollie Welch: It's come into the the natural cycle of renewal and I think we as a practice are [00:18:00] experiencing that.

Hollie Welch: Yeah. Um, I'd say where

Hollie Welch: the sort of where the uncertainty lies is in this sort of, the scope of refurbishment along if you were to take the line of that. Traditional Cat A to the end user fit out. Yeah.

Sustainability and Future Trends
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Hollie Welch: You know it's where that sits I think we're seeing a lot of, developers now sort of reverting back to Cat A and I suppose that sort of opens up a wider conversation about sustainability and ESGs and you know, the, sort of Cat A or Cat B, however

Hollie Welch: we want to talk about it.

Hollie Welch: The sort of the role that that plays in, um,

Hollie Welch: sort of I'd say

Hollie Welch: Construction waste basically and you know how you know how right or wrong is it that we should be fitting out these

Hollie Welch: spaces on short term leases three to five years and then you know at the end of that it gets scrapped.

Stephen Drew: Yeah.

Hollie Welch: Um

Hollie Welch: yeah do we go from there?

Hollie Welch: Also you know rising construction costs as well. Um I think sustainability [00:19:00] generally you know it's something that actually with Story We really, really worked hard with, mainly in terms of trying to

Hollie Welch: select materials that had great sustainability stories or,

Hollie Welch: um products, bespoke furniture items that had a compelling tale.

Hollie Welch: um But I think that in the industry, there's still a bit of a playoff

Hollie Welch: between having that sort of sustainability credential or certification versus

Hollie Welch: the costs

Hollie Welch: associated with it, and also the time period in which to sort of you know, procure said item in line with the construction program. Um, I think as well, you know, there's so many great products on the market now as well, not just finishes, but furniture as well.

Hollie Welch: But I

Hollie Welch: think that you know some clients I think may be a little bit hesitant right to go for those from the sort of robustness

Hollie Welch: standpoint. So,

Hollie Welch: you know, I think there's a lot of products that are coming at a premium,

Hollie Welch: not

Hollie Welch: to say that they [00:20:00] can't or what aren't can't aren't, designed to last and to endure, but I think there's still a little bit of uncertainty about those products, and

Hollie Welch: how they'll fare.

Hollie Welch: actually, just down the road here.

Hollie Welch: A couple of years back we did a fit out for Dome at London, 19 Fitzroy

Hollie Welch: Street and um we at the time fitted a cork floor in and it's a commercial office

Hollie Welch: space as well um and there was lots of debate at the time to say oh god, like, you know, we really want to use the cork, like it's cool, it'll

Hollie Welch: look great. But will it be okay? the building is just for context

Hollie Welch: sort of 1970s medical lab that we started So the idea is to have all those things Stripped out and fitted out and really like

Hollie Welch: lent into that look

Hollie Welch: and feel.

Hollie Welch: Yeah, cool. Um.

Hollie Welch: anyway, needless to say, the cork is

Hollie Welch: absolutely fine and it looks as good as new, but I think,

Hollie Welch: you know in, really big commercial

Hollie Welch: developments there's still

Hollie Welch: a requirement for sort of robustness of

Hollie Welch: materials And I think that getting the balance of that right

Hollie Welch: can be tricky mainly [00:21:00] associated with costs

Stephen Drew: Yeah, no, it's interesting. I mean, the last question I was going to ask around the

Stephen Drew: topic of workplaces,

Stephen Drew: is

Stephen Drew: more around the point of

Stephen Drew: people coming back to the

Stephen Drew: office.

Stephen Drew: because

Stephen Drew: I think,

Stephen Drew: speaking for myself, I used to do a mega nine to

Stephen Drew: five job, I used

Stephen Drew: to go in

Stephen Drew: early,

Stephen Drew: leave late,

Stephen Drew: and

Stephen Drew: I did

Stephen Drew: enjoy

Stephen Drew: it. Then the pandemic

Stephen Drew: came, novelty was fantastic.

Stephen Drew: I'm working

Stephen Drew: at home. It's like, I'm never, never going to go back and then actually I ended up craving the office.

Stephen Drew: and

Stephen Drew: now I'm

Stephen Drew: trying to have in this area, even within the

Stephen Drew: Architecture Social and our team members just trying to get the balance like when do we go in for the create and that's when do we stay at home to be a bit more

Stephen Drew: flexible

Stephen Drew: Do you have

Stephen Drew: any,

Stephen Drew: um,

Stephen Drew: Do you have any thoughts of? That case use do you think that

Stephen Drew: people are more craving the office

Stephen Drew: then

Stephen Drew: or do you see which way it's

Stephen Drew: gonna go?

Hollie Welch: I think that across the board not just in our industry, but I think we're definitely starting to see, yeah, I think just you know not just,

Hollie Welch: necessarily in [00:22:00] architecture you know a lot of friends and,

Hollie Welch: um, you know, people that you talk to in the industry, you know, I think people are sort of, you know Slowly starting to go back to the office more.

Hollie Welch: you

Hollie Welch: know, I think it's also important conversation to have about,

Hollie Welch: you know how it relates to COVID in terms of the amount of space that people were taking, you

Hollie Welch: know sort of incredibly difficult time

Hollie Welch: financially

Hollie Welch: for

Hollie Welch: a lot of businesses and you know, knowing that work from home was, I think that because it was Available as an option and achievable.

Hollie Welch: I think it meant that a lot of places sort of downsized,

Hollie Welch: so you know, reduced the area

Hollie Welch: that they were taking in an office effectively.

Hollie Welch: Yeah, the full plan. Yeah.

Hollie Welch: Um And I think that

Hollie Welch: in some instances people have sort of downsized and you've got a sort of three day, you know, work from home three days, oh sorry, in the office three days, work from home two days and that sort of worked.

Hollie Welch: But I think what we're starting to see now is that, you know, there's key days when

Hollie Welch: people come in which [00:23:00] is usually a Thursday is one of them, especially in our in our, office, Thursday is

Hollie Welch: always one of the busiest days. you know, Monday and Friday, for obvious reasons, quiet. But what it means in those spaces where they've less desks,

Hollie Welch: you know if you have 100 percent of the office actually coming in on the core days, Wednesday, Thursday,

Hollie Welch: sorry God, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, there's not enough space.

Hollie Welch: So you're sort of bursting

Hollie Welch: at at the seams. So

Hollie Welch: I think that then that can be difficult for companies trying to attract people back into the office because they'll say, well, why should I bother

Hollie Welch: coming in?

Hollie Welch: There's nowhere to sit, the meeting room's full, it's manic, you know, and then conversely on the Monday and the Friday the office is empty and I think that that's really difficult.

Hollie Welch: Um,

Hollie Welch: What I do think as well though is that I

Hollie Welch: think

Hollie Welch: It's

Hollie Welch: really, important to have engagement with your colleagues. And I think that we've definitely experienced it as a practice that it's, it's super important for people

Challenges of Remote Work in Architecture
---

Hollie Welch: who are

Hollie Welch: learning and are new to the industry or really in teams as well. You know You can [00:24:00] solve a problem in a couple of minutes just by yelling across the office or engaging with somebody and it's done.

Hollie Welch: Whereas sort of relying on the work from home, not to say that Teams isn't like a great and effective tool for doing that, but, you know,

Hollie Welch: Sort of questioning, review, decision making is becomes really, really protracted. And I think that,

Hollie Welch: you know architects

Hollie Welch: especially we're sort of trained from university to be in the sort of studio culture, and bouncing ideas off each other, sort of, you know, positive critique of what we're doing.

Hollie Welch: And I think that's always in the sort of subconscious. So when you remove that. I think you can start to operate in a bit of a mental silo, and I think it does you know actually affect

Hollie Welch: your productivity. Yeah, yeah. Not to say that it's not great to be able to work from

Hollie Welch: home on days where you have like an Amazon parcel, or, you know, you want to stick a wash

Hollie Welch: on

Hollie Welch: or yeah.

Hollie Welch: yeah. yeah. There's Yeah There's a bit of a balance, but, um, I think that, you know, I think majority of time in the office is [00:25:00] probably yeah the way to go And and, you know, and that's all part of the discussion about how do we do that? How do we bring people back in and how do we retain them?

Attracting and Retaining Office Staff
---

Hollie Welch: Another point as well is about attracting and retaining staff to the office.

Hollie Welch: So, my point about a lot of this building stock that's due for refurbishment you know leased

Hollie Welch: by certain companies or whatever. And, you know, why would somebody come and work in an office that's sort of,

Hollie Welch: you know lesser spec

Hollie Welch: than what they have at home?

Stephen Drew: Yeah, that's a good point.

Stephen Drew: It should be somewhere

Stephen Drew: that they enjoy going to. Yeah.

Hollie Welch: And I think that then the other end of the spectrum there is that,

Hollie Welch: you know there's been lots of narrative about,

Hollie Welch: you know the office

Hollie Welch: becoming more like

Hollie Welch: home It's like we don't want it to be

Hollie Welch: like home because it's Still a professional service

Stephen Drew: Yeah

Hollie Welch: so it

Hollie Welch: needs to be designed where

Hollie Welch: people are comfortable.

Stephen Drew: No, you're right. And

Hollie Welch: and they want to be there, but it's not, you

Hollie Welch: know

Stephen Drew: Yeah It's

Hollie Welch: say beanbags and [00:26:00] I don't know what else Beanbags I suppose That's a bit of what

Stephen Drew: we work with I get

Stephen Drew: it.

Stephen Drew: I

Stephen Drew: mean, I think the

Stephen Drew: more and more I think,

Stephen Drew: especially when I studied architecture

Stephen Drew: a

Stephen Drew: part one, I think it's almost impossible.

Stephen Drew: How would you do that on teams, right? I just can't imagine

Stephen Drew: it And I think

Stephen Drew: a lot of

Stephen Drew: these

Stephen Drew: listeners

Stephen Drew: might be at different points in their careers Now, while you work

Stephen Drew: here, I've

Stephen Drew: been here, I've known a few guys, it's, a cool environment,

Stephen Drew: But to

Stephen Drew: paint the

Stephen Drew: picture for anyone else,

The DMFK Office Environment
---

Stephen Drew: let's talk

Stephen Drew: about the MFK here.

Stephen Drew: And You'll see, I'm reading a very nice

Stephen Drew: newsletter

Stephen Drew: which

Stephen Drew: is made

Stephen Drew: by

Stephen Drew: you guys. Oh, that's the wrong, you can tell I haven't

Stephen Drew: read it yet.

Stephen Drew: So there we go. no, you, You know,

Stephen Drew: it looks good. So Can

Stephen Drew: you imagine

Stephen Drew: me,

Stephen Drew: dying, you know, Paddington Station getting my train with this?

Stephen Drew: but It's

Stephen Drew: really cool projects. I'm joking

Stephen Drew: around, but they're really beautiful stuff.

Stephen Drew: So

Stephen Drew: clearly you do all these

Stephen Drew: awesome

Stephen Drew: projects and stuff,

Stephen Drew: but let's paint the picture.

Stephen Drew: So DMFK for anyone who

Stephen Drew: hasn't

Stephen Drew: Encountered

Stephen Drew: you

Stephen Drew: guys or knows what it's like to work What's it like then?

Hollie Welch: Like

Hollie Welch: who's [00:27:00] listening? D D

Stephen Drew: taking notes.

Stephen Drew: It's

Hollie Welch: a great place to

Hollie Welch: work,

Hollie Welch: in my opinion. Like I Yeah, yeah. I sort of touched on it at the start of Yeah, yeah.

Hollie Welch: you know.

Hollie Welch: Not to sound super cheesy, but when I was looking for

Hollie Welch: My part two position, as soon as I

Hollie Welch: walked into the office which is Cholmondeley Gardens in West Hampstead, it just had a buzz and an atmosphere about it. It may have been to do with the fact that it was a week before Christmas, and I can vividly remember that we were participating in some sort of RIBA, gingerbread,

Hollie Welch: House

Hollie Welch: house competition or something, sort of famously, they were cutting out gingerbread on the laser cutter.

Hollie Welch: And it was sort of a very strong smell in the office. And I thought, Oh, this is a bit, this is a bit, uh,

Stephen Drew: Cool

Hollie Welch: This suits, this

Hollie Welch: suits

Hollie Welch: me. Um, But yeah, no, it's been really fantastic. and Like I say I joined here when I was in part 2 sort of 8 years ago, or you know, post part 2 and now I'm sort [00:28:00] of AD level so 8 years later.

Hollie Welch: good for you. And you know, Really focus it because I've been focused on the commercial project.

Hollie Welch: It's just been really fantastic

Hollie Welch: to see the portfolio grow. Obviously,

Hollie Welch: it's amazing to be recognized you know for your own achievements. But more so, it's to come along the journey with everybody who's made it so.

Hollie Welch: Um and that's been great.

Hollie Welch: You know, recently, we're

Hollie Welch: sort of we're growing. We're doing lots of new

Hollie Welch: projects That's great We've got quite a few new staff members and you know I think that um we've got several people in the office who do a really fantastic job on the sort of social and culture side of things, so, um, I think that's a sort of a big draw as well, but um, I think it's a great place for me.

Hollie Welch: I've never felt like it

Hollie Welch: was particularly like hierarchical here. Okay,

Stephen Drew: cool.

Hollie Welch: Um, And, you know,

Hollie Welch: else do you want

Hollie Welch: what else do I want to say about it you can cut this

Hollie Welch: out.

Stephen Drew: Oh, that's a nice bit. I think that's a, I think that sets the scene.

Tips for Aspiring Architects
---

Stephen Drew: What I was going to [00:29:00] say really quick, maybe one or two quick top tips. So, say now,

Stephen Drew: let's pretend you're

Stephen Drew: hiring

Stephen Drew: for your next super

Stephen Drew: cool commercial project.

Stephen Drew: Now, imagine you're the part

Stephen Drew: two

Stephen Drew: before. Do you

Stephen Drew: have

Stephen Drew: any

Stephen Drew: tips that you'd like to

Stephen Drew: share? Give them, or when you

Stephen Drew: look at applications today,

Stephen Drew: is there

Stephen Drew: anything that you think that

Stephen Drew: people should do?

Hollie Welch: I think it's more, for me, it's always about the, I say oh should the personality higher but, you know it's always about, you know, if people have a passion for design.

Hollie Welch: I don't think that, you know, at that level, it's sort of part one or part two, I don't think that you ultimately have to know what you're interested in, um in terms of sector wise. I don't think you particularly have to have like a five year plan of Where you want to be, but I think you just know if somebody has like a spark or a passion or an enthusiasm and People who want to get sort of involved in the projects We've always sort of had a culture here that you know we resource the projects and you know, we plan as best as we can with the best will in the world You know, you'd always get two major deadlines that collide at the same time [00:30:00] and I think the thing that's always been great is people sort of cross pollinating, um, over teams and sort of like mucking in to help out and that, you know, that That sort of sense of camaraderie has always been really great.

Hollie Welch: Um, so in terms of interview, you know, this is coming from me. Um, but I, think, you know,

Hollie Welch: obviously there's the technical skills which you need, but I think everybody can learn that to an extent So for me, it's about

Hollie Welch: sort of having the spark and the creativity and the drive to want to learn and to be involved in the projects.

Hollie Welch: And I think, you

Hollie Welch: know that's something But I've noticed that obviously we've always had a website But um you know, when I

Hollie Welch: joined sort of had a real limited portfolio and sort of, you know, looking

Hollie Welch: at the brochure the newspaper now, and the website, you know, it's just like

Hollie Welch: fantastic to see how much work we've delivered over the

Hollie Welch: past five years, you know, of quite sort

Hollie Welch: of substantial scale.

Hollie Welch: Yeah.

Hollie Welch: And

Hollie Welch: And you know [00:31:00] it's great that people are coming to us on account of the projects as well. um So that's great.

Stephen Drew: No, it's really,

Stephen Drew: really cool. I love it.

Stephen Drew: Um, I love the projects as well. So I think that's really

Stephen Drew: useful because I think sometimes some people can

Stephen Drew: almost feel like, oh gosh, it's so

Stephen Drew: good. I

Stephen Drew: shouldn't but if you, know,

Stephen Drew: maybe I

Stephen Drew: don't have

Stephen Drew: the Revit as good as it's safe.

Stephen Drew: so I shouldn't apply, but

Stephen Drew: it's nice to say that actually you should

Stephen Drew: still check yourself. so

Hollie Welch: yeah Yeah, Yeah. the, the

Stephen Drew: last

Stephen Drew: question that I was going to have on this kind

Stephen Drew: of

Stephen Drew: Curvy

Stephen Drew: subjects. So,

Stephen Drew: big hot topic this

Stephen Drew: year, you're laughing already,

Impact of AI in Architecture
---

Stephen Drew: is AI.

Stephen Drew: Everyone bangs on about AI. Artificial Intelligence.

Stephen Drew: And

Stephen Drew: I would

Stephen Drew: just

Stephen Drew: like to know more about, have you started to see artificial intelligence?

Stephen Drew: bleed into the job?

Stephen Drew: have you started to see little

Stephen Drew: bits of it? I

Hollie Welch: so, yeah, I mean not on not on a sort of significant there's no part

Stephen Drew: one that's going to be AI. No, I

Hollie Welch: mean we have some really, really, I mean what I would say is I say younger [00:32:00] gen, that sounds weird Um but you know, Part ones Part twos recently qualified Part threes you know, they all in this office have, like, exceptional visualisation skills. Yeah. You know they're really great, and to the point where I'm thinking, like I don't know I don't actually know yeah. Yeah. ,

Stephen Drew: I can't remember. Um,

Hollie Welch: Um yeah so I'm like, just put it in Photoshop!

Hollie Welch: Um, But you know, they're really, really Very, very skilled. I think Um there's a couple of people who've sort of been showing us various, I sound like such an old nana now I'm out of my depth I'm the same. I Don't even know Don't worry, name

Hollie Welch: don't worry about it.

Hollie Welch: software. yeah. Adam Adam. Um, but yeah, um, they've been sort of toying around with it.

Hollie Welch: and I think that a couple of clients as well have sort of got a whiff of it and they've sort of said, oh, you know, could you produce this, this, uh, could you use AI? And it's mainly, I don't think it's going to overtake, you know, the production of visuals or um look and feel, that sort of thing. But what it is really useful for is sort of early stage conceptual.

Hollie Welch: So,

Hollie Welch: [00:33:00] you know if you have a sort of client that says, Oh, you know, I want it to look like a sort of, you know, glowing orb da da da da da and There's all these parameters. It's been quite successful to sort

Hollie Welch: of whack that in and see what it comes up with. And, I

Hollie Welch: think that that is.

Hollie Welch: it's

Hollie Welch: a useful tool in experimenting with sort of ideas that can't necessarily be quantified in a drawing, Yeah. Does makes sense.

Hollie Welch: So um, I think it's useful for that,

Hollie Welch: and I think it's also useful for sort of tweaking photos or tweaking renders. We've had some successful examples of this and then not so successful. So for instance, actually on Story, we had the photos taken,

Hollie Welch: Jack Hobhouse we use him Very often, great photographer, there was one photo and we got it in the end and

Hollie Welch: the

Hollie Welch: chair was sort of slightly off the road. And we were like, crop it out, I don't know. And then Kim actually, she AI'd it

Hollie Welch: and and it makes

Hollie Welch: bigger [00:34:00] And, uh we were like, okay, that's, that's really useful application. Um, and likewise with sort of renders, just sort of slightly tweaking. The, I'd say the sort of the tone of the image so that it looks more like a magazine editorial style image, but yeah, in so far as using it, you know, in any, in any more, um,

Hollie Welch: capacity than that.

Hollie Welch: Not at the moment in this practice, I don't think

Stephen Drew: No, it's really cool. And I think a lot of

Stephen Drew: people are feeling

Stephen Drew: the same It seems like a useful tool for key things, but

Stephen Drew: we're not there yet on design me an office

Stephen Drew: And you know, it's just

Stephen Drew: just yeah.

Hollie Welch: And I think that's the thing, you know, because

Hollie Welch: it's you know while it's really amazing what It

Hollie Welch: can do you know

Hollie Welch: So it

Hollie Welch: can't contextualize the building or its surroundings or the locations And those are all of the things that we look at when we first

Hollie Welch: approach a project, you know, so it will always be devoid of that depth

Hollie Welch: of [00:35:00] um context, I

Hollie Welch: suppose

Stephen Drew: Yeah. I mean, of all the jobs being

Stephen Drew: endangered.

Stephen Drew: I think Architects well having done being a part two years ago and how complicated it was,

Stephen Drew: I think it'd be all right for a while.

Stephen Drew: but no, I really appreciate

Stephen Drew: that. The

Stephen Drew: last question I always like

Stephen Drew: to say to my guests, I like to

Stephen Drew: flip it around actually And say, do you have a

Stephen Drew: question or two for me It could be about maybe your office

Stephen Drew: theme That could be about the Architecture Social

Stephen Drew: could be about

Stephen Drew: anything. that comes.

Hollie Welch: a question for you?

Hollie Welch: I wasn't that prepared,

Hollie Welch: Yeah,

Stephen Drew: But on the top of your car, on the top of the

Stephen Drew: cuff, what do you

Stephen Drew: think

Hollie Welch: You're going to

Hollie Welch: have to pause this bit now

Hollie Welch: Yeah,

Stephen Drew: it's all right. Little interlude.

Hollie Welch: a glass of water. Maybe

Stephen Drew: Maybe to do with commercial offices.

Hollie Welch: Oh can't think what I can't think what I want to ask actually, Yeah, I'm not that No let me think, I'll think of something. What can I ask

Hollie Welch: you can

Hollie Welch: help

Stephen Drew: Yeah, whatever you want

Stephen Drew: you

Stephen Drew: have

Stephen Drew: anything you'd like to ask me? can't

Stephen Drew: think

Hollie Welch: of

Hollie Welch: anything, How many cameras? this isn't going to

Hollie Welch: be part of

Stephen Drew: be part of it.

Stephen Drew: No, don't worry, I might keep the funny

Stephen Drew: one in before I'll keep the funny

Hollie Welch: maybe just edit it [00:36:00] down.

Hollie Welch: down. yeah, yeah,

Stephen Drew: I'll make a joke

Stephen Drew: in a bit.

Stephen Drew: I go, we'll

Stephen Drew: come

Stephen Drew: back with a question.

Stephen Drew: How disappointing

Stephen Drew: it was.

Hollie Welch: I

Hollie Welch: I'm

Hollie Welch: not

Hollie Welch: sure

Hollie Welch: how many other sort of offices you interview

Stephen Drew: No, no, no, no. Maybe Ask me about my experience

Stephen Drew: in offices I mean I'm

Stephen Drew: a loud person, so

Stephen Drew: I test out all the loud equipment

Hollie Welch: all the loud equipment Well,

Hollie Welch: acoustics are key So where where do you,

Hollie Welch: actually operate from most of the Okay, this would be the question.

Stephen Drew: Okay, so we're back

Stephen Drew: and we've

Stephen Drew: got the question. That's going to

Stephen Drew: examine me and go deep into my soul. What was the question?

Host's Office Setup and Challenges
---

Hollie Welch: the question is, where are you based and how do you operate? What is your office

Hollie Welch: space structure and how does

Hollie Welch: it work to benefit the type

Hollie Welch: of

Stephen Drew: Yeah. Good question. So, in terms of my

Stephen Drew: team,

Stephen Drew: I am the complete post

Stephen Drew: pandemic, work in progress

Stephen Drew: mess is the truth

Stephen Drew: right? So

Stephen Drew: I'm in a

Stephen Drew: WeWork flexible

Stephen Drew: we all

Stephen Drew: rock up on certain days.

Stephen Drew: Yeah. Yeah.

Stephen Drew: [00:37:00] beanbags.

Stephen Drew: Sometimes don't

Stephen Drew: have

Stephen Drew: a table.

Stephen Drew: people

Stephen Drew: are on

Stephen Drew: armchairs getting absolutely bad back problems. I'm

Stephen Drew: whingeing going, I

Stephen Drew: need a

Stephen Drew: proper chair.

Stephen Drew: So it's a bit like that. I mean, where

Stephen Drew: it works really well

Stephen Drew: is there is a

Stephen Drew: fluidity and the costs

Stephen Drew: are cheaper

Stephen Drew: compared So years ago.

Stephen Drew: I used to pay

Stephen Drew: thousands of

Stephen Drew: pounds for

Stephen Drew: another WeWork

Stephen Drew: office which was like

Stephen Drew: three meters by four meters

Stephen Drew: And it was expensive. Whereas

Stephen Drew: actually

Stephen Drew: This hybrid

Stephen Drew: working can be really well.

Stephen Drew: And when it,

Stephen Drew: when days where it

Stephen Drew: works,

Stephen Drew: is great. But, you're gonna

Stephen Drew: be really

Stephen Drew: organized,

Stephen Drew: which I'm

Stephen Drew: not, so you've

Stephen Drew: got

Stephen Drew: to,

Stephen Drew: like make

Stephen Drew: sure there's a seat

Stephen Drew: there. Sometimes they

Stephen Drew: don't have

Stephen Drew: seats there and then,

Stephen Drew: Everyone can have an opinion where they want to go.

Stephen Drew: Oh, it's difficult

Stephen Drew: for me to

Stephen Drew: get

Stephen Drew: at Waterloo today.

Stephen Drew: Okay, well, what about we go

Stephen Drew: to Liverpool Street? Oh, you know, and so

Stephen Drew: you've got this

Stephen Drew: whole thing

Stephen Drew: going on, and then at the

Stephen Drew: end,

Stephen Drew: and then you

Stephen Drew: book and you go and someone goes,

Stephen Drew: I didn't realize You So,

Stephen Drew: you know,

Stephen Drew: um, so there's really

Stephen Drew: pros and cons.

Stephen Drew: I mean, the upside

Stephen Drew: is, I think some of my staff love this idea. of Going to different places

Stephen Drew: or for example, [00:38:00] yeah, yeah.

Stephen Drew: And so one of my

Stephen Drew: members of my team has

Stephen Drew: actually been in

Stephen Drew: Barcelona

Stephen Drew: for three weeks working in the WeWorks. It's

Stephen Drew: been kind of like a holiday

Stephen Drew: slash

Stephen Drew: work and

Stephen Drew: it's worked really

Stephen Drew: well,

Stephen Drew: but

Stephen Drew: logistics is quite a

Stephen Drew: headache. So, I'm in the future for me as

Stephen Drew: we grow as a

Stephen Drew: team because right now there's four of us

Stephen Drew: I think maybe there would be a base

Stephen Drew: and we would have like periphery, um,

Hollie Welch: Satellite offices.

Stephen Drew: or like a loose framework and I think that would

Stephen Drew: be the fit But it's harder going decentralized

Stephen Drew: to more centralized

Stephen Drew: than going centralized to a bit more fluid

Hollie Welch: Yeah

Stephen Drew: And, and there, in

Stephen Drew: there has

Stephen Drew: been the struggle,

Stephen Drew: The

Stephen Drew: struggle, but you know,

Stephen Drew: working it out as we go

Stephen Drew: Maybe we should

Stephen Drew: look

Stephen Drew: at tog. A TOG

Stephen Drew: made by DFNK? DMFK? Now I'm doing

Stephen Drew: the bloopers.

Hollie Welch: Blooper reel at the end.

Stephen Drew: Well, you

Stephen Drew: know

Stephen Drew: what? We're

Stephen Drew: all human,

Stephen Drew: aren't we? But DMFK. [00:39:00] What

Stephen Drew: a fantastic

Stephen Drew: practice.

Conclusion and Contact Information
---

Stephen Drew: And so I thank you so much for being here. What

Stephen Drew: an amazing place.

Stephen Drew: Now, if

Stephen Drew: someone else wants to find out

Stephen Drew: about you guys Or

Stephen Drew: get in contact

Stephen Drew: with

Stephen Drew: yourself.

Stephen Drew: Where do they,

Stephen Drew: where do they find you

Hollie Welch: info at DMFK the website.

Hollie Welch: We've got quite active. Instagram and LinkedIn, obviously all DMFK.

Stephen Drew: There

Stephen Drew: we go

Stephen Drew: And to yourself, you're on LinkedIn, you're knocking around.

Hollie Welch: I'm

Hollie Welch: knocking around on LinkedIn, yeah. you are, you know, And

Stephen Drew: you know, if you're in Good Street, passing by, maybe you were in the background

Stephen Drew: of this you can pop in and say hello.

Stephen Drew: Thank

Stephen Drew: you so much for the invitation.

Stephen Drew: and thank

Stephen Drew: you

Stephen Drew: to who's watching.

Stephen Drew: I really, really

Stephen Drew: appreciate it, whether it's this angle, which is my better angle, or this angle, where, you

Stephen Drew: know

Stephen Drew: Hopefully

Stephen Drew: we'll edit more of this one. I really appreciate your time. More

Stephen Drew: coming soon, but do get in contact with DMFK.

Stephen Drew: Super

Stephen Drew: cool

Stephen Drew: practice, I love their stuff. Bye bye everyone, take care.

Stephen Drew: That's it Done Weee You did it Thanks

Stephen Drew: That's it.

Hollie Welch: Done. You

Stephen Drew: [00:40:00] did it.