Reimagining Workplaces: Exploring the Future of Office Design with Hollie Welch at dMFK
E235

Reimagining Workplaces: Exploring the Future of Office Design with Hollie Welch at dMFK

DMFK In Person
===

Stephen Drew: [00:00:00] Hello everyone.

This is a special I'm in virtual studio

today.

I'm actually in a really cool architecture practice and

you know, it's a really nice

office to be in. I think

we're gonna

talk a

bit

about that

today.

So I've got a special guest here who is, I'm so

excited

to do this

with You're laughing all the

time.

Now you're not. You're amazing. But yeah, so I've

got

awesome Associate Director, Architect, Holly Welsh from

DMFK

DMFK.

Holly how are you?

Hollie Welch: Hello, I'm good thanks, how are

I'm

Stephen Drew: alright you know it's a nice day, you've got a beautiful view

out here.

Hollie Welch: We've got a moody backdrop today, in fact the heavens have opened. But here we are, I think the office is still looking good

Stephen Drew: Yeah,

looks great. Quick one before we go

into it.

Did you design this little fit

out then

or?

were you part of

the team?

I'd say say it was definitely part of the design development. It's sort of taken cues from some of the other office fit outs that we've that we've the area.

Hollie Welch: Um So not taking total credit [00:01:00] but

it was definitely a team collaborative.

Stephen Drew: that's

good attitude, you know, not taking all the credit.

credit But no, I really appreciate it. So, while we know each other a little

bit, some of the

people in the audience,

they might not

have met you before. Can you just

tell us a little bit about yourself first and

foremost

Hollie Welch: Yeah. How far do we want to go?

Stephen Drew: You know,

what made you get into architecture then?

Hollie Welch: Okay. So I studied back in, um, I'm from the northeast in case the accent isn't obvious.

Um, I was actually encouraged to go and study architecture by

my art teacher at the time

back

school, shout out

Stokesie School Um, and then went on to study at Northumbria University there, did my BA there for the first three years. It was really great actually, because obviously we went into that, not I say we, as a collective, me

and my friends still very close friends, with not really knowing what the course would entail and not really understanding anything about the architectural

profession either.

Um the school was really [00:02:00] successful at that time, it was quite small, so it actually meant that we got a

lot

of one to one time and engagement with tutors who, a lot of them at the time were practicing in Newcastle as well. Um so that was really fantastic. And then reached the sort of year out stage there, and I studied with Practice Space Architects, and they are based out in Long Benton, so just sort of outside of Newcastle, and they specialize in a lot of civic projects rather than commercial, or sort of big, um, like master plan, hotel, you know, that kind of, um, that kind of sector, a bit of residential and educational.

um so I hadn't really worked in any Um, any commercial fit out prior to that. Um, then I went back to do my masters again at

Northumbria University. And then finishing the Masters I decided it was the

time to come down to London. Um, I was really quite selective [00:03:00] about where I wanted to go at the time.

I'd done Lots of research and had some interviews, some successful, some not, and then had my interview with DMFK,

um,

at the time the office was based up in West Hampstead, um, so for anyone who knows West Hampstead, It was sort of quite suburban

I'd say um and we were housed in

the old library buildings sort of like quite quaint really,

um

and I remember, sort of.

walking

in there sort of

immediately feeling like an energy and a bit of a vibe Um and I sort of thought hmm I can definitely see myself sort of fitting in here.

Um so that would have been the end of 2016. Um,

so I started at DMFK 2017, um, been here for nearly 8 years, famously first

day was on the

Christmas party Really?

That's dangerous, that

can go

either

Stephen Drew: way.

Hollie Welch: Yeah, I was quite reserved at the time, so I

went along for a few hours and

then came away,

But anyway, so yeah. I've been with DMFK for nearly eight years. It's just been [00:04:00] really

fantastic to see how we've grown, um, as we discussed earlier sort of fell into doing the commercial work really.

I'd always had

an appetite for looking more at the sort of internal spaces, not sort of interior

architecture but sort of having a go at that, having not really Experienced or been exposed to that at all up in

Newcastle Um, and then, you know, slowly got on to some projects

and it sort of you know, went from there.

Um and you know sort of this office, I suppose

is the sort of culmination of the development of workspace design that we've worked on, you

know as a team and.

You know it's sort of an exciting time for us.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, no,

it's really cool.

So, when you

jumped

into commercial projects

back in 2017, the landscape

of

and when we say commercial, we

mean offices, right?

So, it was very different back

then, so

But even myself, so in

2015, I used to rent a WeWork office, which at the time was like a glass cubicle. And then

you'd have these[00:05:00]

big sprawling

offices. But then of course, midway from here and then, the pandemic happened, right? So what was

The office is like

you were designing before, and then

what was

that massive shock to the system

like?

Hollie Welch: Well

I suppose so. My first office project, so I've said I sort of didn't have any exposure to this really, and then the first, you know, commercial office space project that I worked for was a project,

um for TOG, um the office group. Oh really? Yeah, yeah, so obviously we've been sort of long term

collaborators

with

them. Okay,

Stephen Drew: because they're quite

bougie spaces. you

know, I like it.

yeah, it's a good, it's a good

office TOG.

So we've

Hollie Welch: we've done up until this point, so I think this would have been Maybe late 2017, early 2018, they'd acquired a space in one Canada square, um Canary Wharf, so iconic Cesare Pelli

designed building, the sort of, you know, the landmark of Canary Wharf.

And they'd taken three floors.

So

[00:06:00] it was working on

the sort of the fit out of that space and trying to incorporate at the time the the office group service office space product within that space. I think

I'm

I'm I think I'm,

correct in saying that at the time. That was their sort of,

their largest

acquisition So it was sort of developing a model.

that was already quite successful in that, you know, allowing tenants to come in, you know, two person studio, four person office, and to be able to expand, you know, expand or reduce in scale, but then sort of retaining the identity of the building that they're working within. I think that that was

something that was super Yeah.

Um so yeah, going on to

One Canada Square. You know, it's some

90 000 square

feet of workspace I don't want to get into get into it too much because we'll be here all day. Yeah, Oh, that's cool. forever about it Um, Really, really great project. The way that we approached the interiors was to sort of draw from the existing building So it's obviously, it's [00:07:00] very sort

of late 80s, early 90s, like high commercial, high corporate architecture.

It's sort of how we would lean into. that, um, but sort of incorporate it in a contemporary way. And I think, you know, off record or maybe on record it's still one of my favorite projects. Unfortunately, the sort of timing of that delivery was, um,

unfortunate

in that it completed

around 2019 obviously Right at the end.

So November then COVID hit. so You know, and Canary

Wharf one of the sort of most hard hit locations in terms of scale of office

space working from home, um, so I think that, you know, the way that we still approach the office space design is still very

much the same but I think that Todd was sort of at the forefront of looking at how To attract people, how to retain people, how to get people into those spaces rather

than working from [00:08:00] home. You know,

effectively It's the start up co work which in principle is trying to get people a space to work at that isn't their people

Stephen Drew: a space to work at that isn't their home, you know? talk

is better, right? But we worked

on kick me out Also.

but it is cool

how it's changed, because

I think

the designs at the time was more about these big offices and then the breakout spaces where maybe they get a coffee too. However, is there now a more of an appetite for people to come in,

bring

their laptops, collaborate, open

space? So has it like changed the rule book in that kind of area?

Hollie Welch: Yeah I think the thing is, it's just providing people,

occupants tenants with a choice of where where, they want to work and how they

want to work, you know Varying degrees of privacy and openness. And obviously we've seen that sort of, Dial up to the next level now with requirements for,

you know you know,

uh video calling, which obviously existed

prior to the pandemic but now almost across the board, um you know, [00:09:00] across all the clients that we work

with whether, you know, that's, legal, whether it's sort of like project management, everybody, or educational even, you know everybody wants to

enhance their facilities to be able to accommodate,

you know people to take Zoom calls, video calls, and to touch on your point about the WeWorks very sort

of successful At the time But I think there's sort of the

attraction

for those spaces, um, or the sort of want to be in those

spaces sort of diminished with the growth of sort of video calls, et cetera. because there's no control over acoustics, you you know? And I think that's, that's a fundamental

sort of design or office etiquette issue that lots of clients are trying to address in their fit outs So it's less about You know, You know placement of gestural furniture and more about functional, practical spaces that enable people to work while, you know, allowing other people to

sit quietly, you

Stephen Drew: know,

Hollie Welch: so.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, so was it then a case of the [00:10:00] rule book as it

was

for commercial offices was ripped up and then there were people

like yourself were really thinking about honing in on.

What

does the client

need? What does the, in the, the person in

the office need

was it, were you learning as you're going

and then

F starting to identify what was really important going

forwards.

Hollie Welch: I think that there's I wouldn't necessarily say that the real book has changed. I Yeah. Yeah. I

think that,

um, you know, there's been a shift over the years from what would have been, you know, if you start I

say start at the beginning but you know, cellularized offices that you might associate with sort of in the 90s, so let's say the battery chicken operation

Stephen Drew: Yeah, the cubicle. The blue,

the blue boundaries,

pictures on the wall.

Hollie Welch: Yeah,

exactly. And then sort of moving from that towards much more open plan. Yeah. Um, and then the sort of type of work that we would be doing, you know, sort of cat A So we'd find, um, or we'd be approached to Um I do redevelopment [00:11:00] building We'd be doing, lift lobby, WCs, maybe main reception.

And then the office space would be let as cat A And then sort of how that's then developed in terms of managing the space How that's then developed to target, you know what people want from the space and, you know, not to loop back to talk you know that, you know, that really became focused on the amenities within the shared space within the offices.

So, um within the building, sorry. So while the offices might just be cate it's about providing all these amenities in the shared space that people can utilize. And also it's about sort of, you know, collaboration, community, creating a work environment where, you know, people go to communal spaces and they mix.

You get to get a break out of your own office space. So I think that, you know, component parts that we always look at when we approach these things, obviously it's demise reception, it's what we call break out That might be, you know, focused work. We always The FAMILY TABLES the family tables So kind of like we have in this office, a space that can be used [00:12:00] for informal collaboration, discussion.

Meeting room, obviously private meeting rooms as well, tea points for beverage, tea points and kitchenettes, you know, that sort of thing. Um, and I think as that evolves if you sort of take that as a product, then the sort of next evolution of that is okay, well, You some tenants, you know, are attracted to taking a space in that building with those shared amenities, but actually they don't necessarily want to share with DMFK next door because they've monopolized the, uh, or colonized maybe the breakout space. So, you know, how about we try and develop the product to share some of

these amenities between common

parts So you're still providing space for interaction and breakout, but then you're also

providing that sort of extra level of amenity within the demised office space. And I think that's what we would

We call the Cat B

approach. So

it's

sort of similar to what we've got here, So you know, all of those shared amenities are within the [00:13:00] one demise, so it's a sort of, it's a ready to go is another terminology

that we use or plug and play, and I think that

um

the evolution of that further brings us on to story.

Um which is, yeah,

Stephen Drew: the, important project, So for the

list, I'm going to edit it in a bit,

but you'll see some amazing pictures ooooh yeah, of

Story,

but please carry

on, so I'll splice the

images in.

Hollie Welch: Yeah. So obviously, you know, the, market is full of lots of office space providers. We've recently completed Story, which is a service office space product for British land.

they've got several locations all around Liverpool Street, sort of Broadgate area. I think that, um, they are really fantastic clients super, super engaged throughout the process, which has been really enjoyable. Um, they're engaged with the design process, but they're also incredibly focused on the end user as well.

And just really, I [00:14:00] feel like, They really sort of understand their client, or not their client, sorry, their

occupier

needs. And I think that they've evolved their product to suit. So, going on from what I said about the Cat B,

um the story product differs

in the sense that um or it stands out, let's say, because you still have the common parts with

your T point Your work tables, your enclosed focus booths, phone booths, etc. But then there's an enhanced provision within

the demised offices as well to provide, um, T points and meetings within those spaces also. So it's it's kind like, it's almost the next tier of amenity, if that makes sense. So while we're not sort of fitting them out to this sort of this level, you know, the idea is that a client, a tenant can come along, you know, they've got the identity of the postcode of that

building which I should have said is at 201

Stephen Drew: Bishopsgate we'll get

into more detail about

I'll put it all up, all that stuff [00:15:00] is magically here in the final

cut, so

don't

worry

Hollie Welch: So, you get the postcode, you get the building address, you know, you get the sort of grandeur and stature

of

the building,

arrival experience, etc. And then, um, you go up onto the floor, which

is the level 7 and then you're then welcomed by breakout spaces,

like really great, um, I say that building particularly, like, really great sense of space and volume, and we'll get into the detail of that a little more.

But then, you know, your office space as well has the same functionality as the common parts. I think

that's

just the sort of the next layer,

if you like very, very

Stephen Drew: cool. So,

that's clearly an

awesome and important project.

and I'm

sure

everyone

will agree that

it all

looks great.

What do you think

then, of

course, we never know which way the future will go,

The pandemic was like an indicator

of it

but what's your

sentiment for the future of commercial workplace

and offices then?

Do you see it

continuing

to [00:16:00] go down this directory, this

direction

per se?

Hollie Welch: I think the thing is, you know,

we,

we've got a lot, we collectively, deal with, we've got a lot of experience in the workplace

sector Um, you know, we work with a whole range of clients who are all great and all really

invested in the end product You know have we got the ultimate answer? No.

No Yeah, yeah. Um because you know it's it's it's tailored to the product.

Um it's tailored to also sorry it's not tailored to it's it's dictated by development budget.

Um I think it's also about the cost Not

everybody wants to take on a Cat B or an end user fit out space Um, I

suppose it's thinking about um like lease as well. Lease expiry Um, at

the moment we're getting,

when I sort of say,

um

Oh I've lost my train

of

Stephen Drew: of

thought.

Don't

worry

Hollie Welch: I've sort of sort of forgotten

Stephen Drew: the

original question No, don't

worry, we're talking about just

where

the industry

is [00:17:00] going.

Hollie Welch: I past that I knew and it totally distracted me.

Who

Stephen Drew: you know you're like, hey! It's

Hollie Welch: my friend

Stephen Drew: my friend, works at The World your friend. You're going to get a WhatsApp

chat saying what's happening

Hollie Welch: so he'll be like, what the hell are you

doing

in here I

Stephen Drew: I think

this should all

make it in, because it's real. Yeah it's a bit

Hollie Welch: of a

Stephen Drew: I like it.

Hollie Welch: out the

vacant expression

while

Now

you're,

Stephen Drew: you're,

you're, you're, you're just giving

out more and more. You're

giving

out so much to you.

I guess I'm just more interested in like the sentiment of

how positive do you feel like commercial work? But it seems like it's busy.

Yeah, I'd

Hollie Welch: say it's busy. What I was getting to, sorry, my point about lease, uh lease expiring there's lots of buildings that are, you know, they're really well designed. Yeah, yeah. they are coming towards the end of their lease you know, buildings from around, let's say like 2005, 2010,

you know, the fit outs are dated, the services are dated.

A dated you know

It's come into the the natural cycle of renewal and I think we as a practice are [00:18:00] experiencing that.

Yeah. Um, I'd say where

the sort of where the uncertainty lies is in this sort of, the scope of refurbishment along if you were to take the line of that. Traditional Cat A to the end user fit out. Yeah. You know it's where that sits I think we're seeing a lot of, developers now sort of reverting back to Cat A and I suppose that sort of opens up a wider conversation about sustainability and ESGs and you know, the, sort of Cat A or Cat B, however

we want to talk about it.

The sort of the role that that plays in, um,

sort of I'd say

Construction waste basically and you know how you know how right or wrong is it that we should be fitting out these

spaces on short term leases three to five years and then you know at the end of that it gets scrapped.

Stephen Drew: Yeah.

Hollie Welch: Um

yeah do we go from there?

Also you know rising construction costs as well. Um I think sustainability [00:19:00] generally you know it's something that actually with Story We really, really worked hard with, mainly in terms of trying to

select materials that had great sustainability stories or,

um products, bespoke furniture items that had a compelling tale.

um But I think that in the industry, there's still a bit of a playoff

between having that sort of sustainability credential or certification versus

the costs

associated with it, and also the time period in which to sort of you know, procure said item in line with the construction program. Um, I think as well, you know, there's so many great products on the market now as well, not just finishes, but furniture as well.

But I

think that you know some clients I think may be a little bit hesitant right to go for those from the sort of robustness

standpoint. So,

you know, I think there's a lot of products that are coming at a premium,

not

to say that they [00:20:00] can't or what aren't can't aren't, designed to last and to endure, but I think there's still a little bit of uncertainty about those products, and

how they'll fare.

actually, just down the road here.

A couple of years back we did a fit out for Dome at London, 19 Fitzroy

Street and um we at the time fitted a cork floor in and it's a commercial office

space as well um and there was lots of debate at the time to say oh god, like, you know, we really want to use the cork, like it's cool, it'll

look great. But will it be okay? the building is just for context

sort of 1970s medical lab that we started So the idea is to have all those things Stripped out and fitted out and really like

lent into that look

and feel.

Yeah, cool. Um.

anyway, needless to say, the cork is

absolutely fine and it looks as good as new, but I think,

you know in, really big commercial

developments there's still

a requirement for sort of robustness of

materials And I think that getting the balance of that right

can be tricky mainly [00:21:00] associated with costs

Stephen Drew: Yeah, no, it's interesting. I mean, the last question I was going to ask around the

topic of workplaces,

is

more around the point of

people coming back to the

office.

because

I think,

speaking for myself, I used to do a mega nine to

five job, I used

to go in

early,

leave late,

and

I did

enjoy

it. Then the pandemic

came, novelty was fantastic.

I'm working

at home. It's like, I'm never, never going to go back and then actually I ended up craving the office.

and

now I'm

trying to have in this area, even within the

Architecture Social and our team members just trying to get the balance like when do we go in for the create and that's when do we stay at home to be a bit more

flexible

Do you have

any,

um,

Do you have any thoughts of? That case use do you think that

people are more craving the office

then

or do you see which way it's

gonna go?

Hollie Welch: I think that across the board not just in our industry, but I think we're definitely starting to see, yeah, I think just you know not just,

necessarily in [00:22:00] architecture you know a lot of friends and,

um, you know, people that you talk to in the industry, you know, I think people are sort of, you know Slowly starting to go back to the office more.

you

know, I think it's also important conversation to have about,

you know how it relates to COVID in terms of the amount of space that people were taking, you

know sort of incredibly difficult time

financially

for

a lot of businesses and you know, knowing that work from home was, I think that because it was Available as an option and achievable.

I think it meant that a lot of places sort of downsized,

so you know, reduced the area

that they were taking in an office effectively.

Yeah, the full plan. Yeah.

Um And I think that

in some instances people have sort of downsized and you've got a sort of three day, you know, work from home three days, oh sorry, in the office three days, work from home two days and that sort of worked.

But I think what we're starting to see now is that, you know, there's key days when

people come in which [00:23:00] is usually a Thursday is one of them, especially in our in our, office, Thursday is

always one of the busiest days. you know, Monday and Friday, for obvious reasons, quiet. But what it means in those spaces where they've less desks,

you know if you have 100 percent of the office actually coming in on the core days, Wednesday, Thursday,

sorry God, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, there's not enough space.

So you're sort of bursting

at at the seams. So

I think that then that can be difficult for companies trying to attract people back into the office because they'll say, well, why should I bother

coming in?

There's nowhere to sit, the meeting room's full, it's manic, you know, and then conversely on the Monday and the Friday the office is empty and I think that that's really difficult.

Um,

What I do think as well though is that I

think

It's

really, important to have engagement with your colleagues. And I think that we've definitely experienced it as a practice that it's, it's super important for people

who are

learning and are new to the industry or really in teams as well. You know You can [00:24:00] solve a problem in a couple of minutes just by yelling across the office or engaging with somebody and it's done.

Whereas sort of relying on the work from home, not to say that Teams isn't like a great and effective tool for doing that, but, you know,

Sort of questioning, review, decision making is becomes really, really protracted. And I think that,

you know architects

especially we're sort of trained from university to be in the sort of studio culture, and bouncing ideas off each other, sort of, you know, positive critique of what we're doing.

And I think that's always in the sort of subconscious. So when you remove that. I think you can start to operate in a bit of a mental silo, and I think it does you know actually affect

your productivity. Yeah, yeah. Not to say that it's not great to be able to work from

home on days where you have like an Amazon parcel, or, you know, you want to stick a wash

on

or yeah.

yeah. yeah. There's Yeah There's a bit of a balance, but, um, I think that, you know, I think majority of time in the office is [00:25:00] probably yeah the way to go And and, you know, and that's all part of the discussion about how do we do that? How do we bring people back in and how do we retain them? Another point as well is about attracting and retaining staff to the office.

So, my point about a lot of this building stock that's due for refurbishment you know leased

by certain companies or whatever. And, you know, why would somebody come and work in an office that's sort of,

you know lesser spec

than what they have at home?

Stephen Drew: Yeah, that's a good point.

It should be somewhere

that they enjoy going to. Yeah.

Hollie Welch: And I think that then the other end of the spectrum there is that,

you know there's been lots of narrative about,

you know the office

becoming more like

home It's like we don't want it to be

like home because it's Still a professional service

Stephen Drew: Yeah

Hollie Welch: so it

needs to be designed where

people are comfortable.

Stephen Drew: No, you're right. And

Hollie Welch: and they want to be there, but it's not, you

know

Stephen Drew: Yeah It's

Hollie Welch: say beanbags and [00:26:00] I don't know what else Beanbags I suppose That's a bit of what

Stephen Drew: we work with I get

it.

I

mean, I think the

more and more I think,

especially when I studied architecture

a

part one, I think it's almost impossible.

How would you do that on teams, right? I just can't imagine

it And I think

a lot of

these

listeners

might be at different points in their careers Now, while you work

here, I've

been here, I've known a few guys, it's, a cool environment,

But to

paint the

picture for anyone else,

let's talk

about the MFK here.

And You'll see, I'm reading a very nice

newsletter

which

is made

by

you guys. Oh, that's the wrong, you can tell I haven't

read it yet.

So there we go. no, you, You know,

it looks good. So Can

you imagine

me,

dying, you know, Paddington Station getting my train with this?

but It's

really cool projects. I'm joking

around, but they're really beautiful stuff.

So

clearly you do all these

awesome

projects and stuff,

but let's paint the picture.

So DMFK for anyone who

hasn't

Encountered

you

guys or knows what it's like to work What's it like then?

Hollie Welch: Like

who's [00:27:00] listening? D D

Stephen Drew: taking notes.

It's

Hollie Welch: a great place to

work,

in my opinion. Like I Yeah, yeah. I sort of touched on it at the start of Yeah, yeah.

you know.

Not to sound super cheesy, but when I was looking for

My part two position, as soon as I

walked into the office which is Cholmondeley Gardens in West Hampstead, it just had a buzz and an atmosphere about it. It may have been to do with the fact that it was a week before Christmas, and I can vividly remember that we were participating in some sort of RIBA, gingerbread,

House

house competition or something, sort of famously, they were cutting out gingerbread on the laser cutter.

And it was sort of a very strong smell in the office. And I thought, Oh, this is a bit, this is a bit, uh,

Stephen Drew: Cool

Hollie Welch: This suits, this

suits

me. Um, But yeah, no, it's been really fantastic. and Like I say I joined here when I was in part 2 sort of 8 years ago, or you know, post part 2 and now I'm sort [00:28:00] of AD level so 8 years later.

good for you. And you know, Really focus it because I've been focused on the commercial project.

It's just been really fantastic

to see the portfolio grow. Obviously,

it's amazing to be recognized you know for your own achievements. But more so, it's to come along the journey with everybody who's made it so.

Um and that's been great.

You know, recently, we're

sort of we're growing. We're doing lots of new

projects That's great We've got quite a few new staff members and you know I think that um we've got several people in the office who do a really fantastic job on the sort of social and culture side of things, so, um, I think that's a sort of a big draw as well, but um, I think it's a great place for me.

I've never felt like it

was particularly like hierarchical here. Okay,

Stephen Drew: cool.

Hollie Welch: Um, And, you know,

else do you want

what else do I want to say about it you can cut this

out.

Stephen Drew: Oh, that's a nice bit. I think that's a, I think that sets the scene. What I was going to [00:29:00] say really quick, maybe one or two quick top tips. So, say now,

let's pretend you're

hiring

for your next super

cool commercial project.

Now, imagine you're the part

two

before. Do you

have

any

tips that you'd like to

share? Give them, or when you

look at applications today,

is there

anything that you think that

people should do?

Hollie Welch: I think it's more, for me, it's always about the, I say oh should the personality higher but, you know it's always about, you know, if people have a passion for design.

I don't think that, you know, at that level, it's sort of part one or part two, I don't think that you ultimately have to know what you're interested in, um in terms of sector wise. I don't think you particularly have to have like a five year plan of Where you want to be, but I think you just know if somebody has like a spark or a passion or an enthusiasm and People who want to get sort of involved in the projects We've always sort of had a culture here that you know we resource the projects and you know, we plan as best as we can with the best will in the world You know, you'd always get two major deadlines that collide at the same time [00:30:00] and I think the thing that's always been great is people sort of cross pollinating, um, over teams and sort of like mucking in to help out and that, you know, that That sort of sense of camaraderie has always been really great.

Um, so in terms of interview, you know, this is coming from me. Um, but I, think, you know,

obviously there's the technical skills which you need, but I think everybody can learn that to an extent So for me, it's about

sort of having the spark and the creativity and the drive to want to learn and to be involved in the projects.

And I think, you

know that's something But I've noticed that obviously we've always had a website But um you know, when I

joined sort of had a real limited portfolio and sort of, you know, looking

at the brochure the newspaper now, and the website, you know, it's just like

fantastic to see how much work we've delivered over the

past five years, you know, of quite sort

of substantial scale.

Yeah.

And

And you know [00:31:00] it's great that people are coming to us on account of the projects as well. um So that's great.

Stephen Drew: No, it's really,

really cool. I love it.

Um, I love the projects as well. So I think that's really

useful because I think sometimes some people can

almost feel like, oh gosh, it's so

good. I

shouldn't but if you, know,

maybe I

don't have

the Revit as good as it's safe.

so I shouldn't apply, but

it's nice to say that actually you should

still check yourself. so

Hollie Welch: yeah Yeah, Yeah. the, the

Stephen Drew: last

question that I was going to have on this kind

of

Curvy

subjects. So,

big hot topic this

year, you're laughing already,

is AI.

Everyone bangs on about AI. Artificial Intelligence.

And

I would

just

like to know more about, have you started to see artificial intelligence?

bleed into the job?

have you started to see little

bits of it? I

Hollie Welch: so, yeah, I mean not on not on a sort of significant there's no part

Stephen Drew: one that's going to be AI. No, I

Hollie Welch: mean we have some really, really, I mean what I would say is I say younger [00:32:00] gen, that sounds weird Um but you know, Part ones Part twos recently qualified Part threes you know, they all in this office have, like, exceptional visualisation skills. Yeah. You know they're really great, and to the point where I'm thinking, like I don't know I don't actually know yeah. Yeah. ,

Stephen Drew: I can't remember. Um,

Hollie Welch: Um yeah so I'm like, just put it in Photoshop!

Um, But you know, they're really, really Very, very skilled. I think Um there's a couple of people who've sort of been showing us various, I sound like such an old nana now I'm out of my depth I'm the same. I Don't even know Don't worry, name

don't worry about it.

software. yeah. Adam Adam. Um, but yeah, um, they've been sort of toying around with it.

and I think that a couple of clients as well have sort of got a whiff of it and they've sort of said, oh, you know, could you produce this, this, uh, could you use AI? And it's mainly, I don't think it's going to overtake, you know, the production of visuals or um look and feel, that sort of thing. But what it is really useful for is sort of early stage conceptual.

So,

[00:33:00] you know if you have a sort of client that says, Oh, you know, I want it to look like a sort of, you know, glowing orb da da da da da and There's all these parameters. It's been quite successful to sort

of whack that in and see what it comes up with. And, I

think that that is.

it's

a useful tool in experimenting with sort of ideas that can't necessarily be quantified in a drawing, Yeah. Does makes sense.

So um, I think it's useful for that,

and I think it's also useful for sort of tweaking photos or tweaking renders. We've had some successful examples of this and then not so successful. So for instance, actually on Story, we had the photos taken,

Jack Hobhouse we use him Very often, great photographer, there was one photo and we got it in the end and

the

chair was sort of slightly off the road. And we were like, crop it out, I don't know. And then Kim actually, she AI'd it

and and it makes

bigger [00:34:00] And, uh we were like, okay, that's, that's really useful application. Um, and likewise with sort of renders, just sort of slightly tweaking. The, I'd say the sort of the tone of the image so that it looks more like a magazine editorial style image, but yeah, in so far as using it, you know, in any, in any more, um,

capacity than that.

Not at the moment in this practice, I don't think

Stephen Drew: No, it's really cool. And I think a lot of

people are feeling

the same It seems like a useful tool for key things, but

we're not there yet on design me an office

And you know, it's just

just yeah.

Hollie Welch: And I think that's the thing, you know, because

it's you know while it's really amazing what It

can do you know

So it

can't contextualize the building or its surroundings or the locations And those are all of the things that we look at when we first

approach a project, you know, so it will always be devoid of that depth

of [00:35:00] um context, I

suppose

Stephen Drew: Yeah. I mean, of all the jobs being

endangered.

I think Architects well having done being a part two years ago and how complicated it was,

I think it'd be all right for a while.

but no, I really appreciate

that. The

last question I always like

to say to my guests, I like to

flip it around actually And say, do you have a

question or two for me It could be about maybe your office

theme That could be about the Architecture Social

could be about

anything. that comes.

Hollie Welch: a question for you?

I wasn't that prepared,

Yeah,

Stephen Drew: But on the top of your car, on the top of the

cuff, what do you

think

Hollie Welch: You're going to

have to pause this bit now

Yeah,

Stephen Drew: it's all right. Little interlude.

Hollie Welch: a glass of water. Maybe

Stephen Drew: Maybe to do with commercial offices.

Hollie Welch: Oh can't think what I can't think what I want to ask actually, Yeah, I'm not that No let me think, I'll think of something. What can I ask

you can

help

Stephen Drew: Yeah, whatever you want

you

have

anything you'd like to ask me? can't

think

Hollie Welch: of

anything, How many cameras? this isn't going to

be part of

Stephen Drew: be part of it.

No, don't worry, I might keep the funny

one in before I'll keep the funny

Hollie Welch: maybe just edit it [00:36:00] down.

down. yeah, yeah,

Stephen Drew: I'll make a joke

in a bit.

I go, we'll

come

back with a question.

How disappointing

it was.

Hollie Welch: I

I'm

not

sure

how many other sort of offices you interview

Stephen Drew: No, no, no, no. Maybe Ask me about my experience

in offices I mean I'm

a loud person, so

I test out all the loud equipment

Hollie Welch: all the loud equipment Well,

acoustics are key So where where do you,

actually operate from most of the Okay, this would be the question.

Stephen Drew: Okay, so we're back

and we've

got the question. That's going to

examine me and go deep into my soul. What was the question?

Hollie Welch: the question is, where are you based and how do you operate? What is your office

space structure and how does

it work to benefit the type

of

Stephen Drew: Yeah. Good question. So, in terms of my

team,

I am the complete post

pandemic, work in progress

mess is the truth

right? So

I'm in a

WeWork flexible

we all

rock up on certain days.

Yeah. Yeah.

[00:37:00] beanbags.

Sometimes don't

have

a table.

people

are on

armchairs getting absolutely bad back problems. I'm

whingeing going, I

need a

proper chair.

So it's a bit like that. I mean, where

it works really well

is there is a

fluidity and the costs

are cheaper

compared So years ago.

I used to pay

thousands of

pounds for

another WeWork

office which was like

three meters by four meters

And it was expensive. Whereas

actually

This hybrid

working can be really well.

And when it,

when days where it

works,

is great. But, you're gonna

be really

organized,

which I'm

not, so you've

got

to,

like make

sure there's a seat

there. Sometimes they

don't have

seats there and then,

Everyone can have an opinion where they want to go.

Oh, it's difficult

for me to

get

at Waterloo today.

Okay, well, what about we go

to Liverpool Street? Oh, you know, and so

you've got this

whole thing

going on, and then at the

end,

and then you

book and you go and someone goes,

I didn't realize You So,

you know,

um, so there's really

pros and cons.

I mean, the upside

is, I think some of my staff love this idea. of Going to different places

or for example, [00:38:00] yeah, yeah.

And so one of my

members of my team has

actually been in

Barcelona

for three weeks working in the WeWorks. It's

been kind of like a holiday

slash

work and

it's worked really

well,

but

logistics is quite a

headache. So, I'm in the future for me as

we grow as a

team because right now there's four of us

I think maybe there would be a base

and we would have like periphery, um,

Hollie Welch: Satellite offices.

Stephen Drew: or like a loose framework and I think that would

be the fit But it's harder going decentralized

to more centralized

than going centralized to a bit more fluid

Hollie Welch: Yeah

Stephen Drew: And, and there, in

there has

been the struggle,

The

struggle, but you know,

working it out as we go

Maybe we should

look

at tog. A TOG

made by DFNK? DMFK? Now I'm doing

the bloopers.

Hollie Welch: Blooper reel at the end.

Stephen Drew: Well, you

know

what? We're

all human,

aren't we? But DMFK. [00:39:00] What

a fantastic

practice. And so I thank you so much for being here. What

an amazing place.

Now, if

someone else wants to find out

about you guys Or

get in contact

with

yourself.

Where do they,

where do they find you

Hollie Welch: info at DMFK the website.

We've got quite active. Instagram and LinkedIn, obviously all DMFK.

Stephen Drew: There

we go

And to yourself, you're on LinkedIn, you're knocking around.

Hollie Welch: I'm

knocking around on LinkedIn, yeah. you are, you know, And

Stephen Drew: you know, if you're in Good Street, passing by, maybe you were in the background

of this you can pop in and say hello.

Thank

you so much for the invitation.

and thank

you

to who's watching.

I really, really

appreciate it, whether it's this angle, which is my better angle, or this angle, where, you

know

Hopefully

we'll edit more of this one. I really appreciate your time. More

coming soon, but do get in contact with DMFK.

Super

cool

practice, I love their stuff. Bye bye everyone, take care.

That's it Done Weee You did it Thanks

That's it.

Hollie Welch: Done. You

Stephen Drew: [00:40:00] did it.

Episode Video