Sustainable Futures with James Rixon: Retrofit Architecture

Sustainable Futures with James Rixon_ Retrofit Architecture
===

[00:00:00]

Stephen Drew: Here we go! I told you I'd be back and we're gonna talk about all those things. Old, refurbished, retrofitted. What does that mean? Oh, I'm gonna learn with you. I've got a bit of an idea, I've got some ideas for the future. Anyways, we are gonna jump into it in 20 seconds.

Hello everyone and welcome to this livestream special. That's right, I'm back. We're gonna learn something today and you are gonna be surprised how [00:01:00] little I know. Or maybe if you watch this podcast, you probably know. I know not that much at all. And on the subject today is about retrofit architecture.

We've got one planet. We've got loads of buildings knocking around. So why should we do new ones when we should look at the old and bring in the new? Old meets new. That's the way, right? On that subject, I have a fantastic architect with me who is passionate about this, also set up his own architecture practice, leading by example.

So on that note, I have the fantastic James Rickson here. James, how are you, sir?

James Rixon: Hi, Stephen. Very well. Thank you very much. And thanks for a very kind introduction. This was an exciting introduction as well to to this podcast. I enjoyed that.

Stephen Drew: I, anyone, you know me a little bit, so you know, now and then we got to get the energy going, but it's true, we have only got one planet, and I'm, one of the things on this podcast, I said this year, I need to talk more about sustainability, and I don't mean me scraping out the [00:02:00] marmite and the recycling, which I do, that's important.

But, we've got a lot of admissions, we've got all that stuff, so much is involved in the materials, the construction, and all these things, from what I can gather, so we have to look as architects, being accountable for this as well, right? But just before we go into it, tell us about Rixon Architecture.

Who are you? What are you doing?

James Rixon: So here we are a small micro practice. We're based up in Cambridge, I've been recently relocated from South London and we specialize in retrofit and low energy design. That's something I've been interested in for, a large number of years now, and then it made sense that, hey, also make that the thing that we do as a business as well.

You'd be amazed. So yeah, we've been doing that for a couple of years and then I've been involved in a number of sort of other projects which I'm sure we'll come into later on in and around the retrofit space.

Stephen Drew: Sounds good. Sounds good. I love what [00:03:00] I see here. Now, this is what I think is important as well, because large architecture practices, of course, there's responsibility there, but I love that you're a smaller architecture practice as well, because we can get involved in this at all points.

Tell us, so you mentioned again, that this retrofit is very important to you. Can you tell me a little bit about how Then you started involving retrofit in, in your architecture, and why you're so passionate about it then?

James Rixon: Yeah, I think, where to start? It's always been something that's To talk to clients about, and for a long, for a long time, I think the conversation was clients come to us, hey, we would like, hey, we like a building, and then we'd say, oh, we're bright eyed, bushy tailed, we like sustainability to you, and they'd say, how much it cost, and then we'd tell them, and then they would not do anything, remotely sustainable, and just generally hit bare minimum building ranks.

And that, after a while, was mildly [00:04:00] frustrating. So we thought, change the conversation and say that, hey, we do low energy buildings, and hey, we, if you've got an existing one, we do not, we won't ask you again, do you like insulation? We'll say, look, we do retrofit, and then we can have, have that conversation, and it made it so much easier and in terms of talking to the types of clients that we have.

I guess there was a little bit, yeah, so a bit of that, I've been interested since, the other side of it is interested at university. I was lucky enough to be at university the heady days of when we were just about to have eco homes and the Code for Sustainable Homes, that, that was coming in, and it was the point, at that point, sustainability wasn't a little, funny, frilly thing on the sides of an extra, it was going to happen across the board and everyone was going to have to do it.

And then, unsurprisingly, let's say that was pulled by the, by the government and everything went reset and went back to normal again. It was a, it was again a reaction to that and rather than [00:05:00] waiting for Government to catch up with Aspiration, let's just get on, let's just get on and do it.

Stephen Drew: Nice. Fair enough. Makes complete sense. I I wanted to just peel it back a little bit as well, because what is your definition of retrofit? Is that being sustainable or dealing with existing buildings? What, I hear the term and sometimes I get confused what it is, James. In your opinion

James Rixon: in my opinion, I start an opinion, I was having a chat, I was having a chat with someone recently. I mentioned I'm, we do retrofit and he said, Oh, yeah, that's great. I took my daughter to a a retro clothes sale in East London. And then we did a little silence like this, and then I explained, but it's not that.

So I just say but to him, that's what Retrofit was. And Retrofit to me is not quite that. It's taking a take, taking old buildings and then putting a plan together of how you can make as many interventions as possible, or as few as interventions as possible to make sustainable. [00:06:00] So it's really just Taking our current buildings and making them fit for the future.

Let's say,

Stephen Drew: Yeah. Okay. The one that comes to brain comes to my brain. But my brain's not working clearly. Is, you got residential, but also office post pandemic, I think James cutting it up and existing office and doing something innovative or splitting up is quite popular as well as those, the two predominant case cases for retrofit at the moment, or is there other things as well that tends to be looked at for retrofitting?

James Rixon: I think that, yeah, they're going to be the two, two main things, I think, and they're different in as much as their offices come around, because this is a post pandemic, the way that we, the way we work and that, our whole interaction with our buildings is completely changed and there's a lot of re addressing what, what are they for, which presents, actually presents a very good opportunity to then consider if we're [00:07:00] completely reworking them how can we make those, sustainable now and for in the future whereas with the domestic or homes market, okay, yes, we might We might have all cleared out the spare bedroom and turned it into a funky office but, they've still been, they've always been an operation and they still will be an operation.

So nothing really has changed, particularly about the way we live, which makes it, A different market and as much as there's that opportunity is not arisen term. Okay, we're changing it anyway. Let's change it for the better. It's just, it's more, Oh God, we're doing it wrong. Let's figure it out and sort it out as we go.

I don't know if that's a particularly technical definition of the

Stephen Drew: don't worry. There's when I'm the host is there's never a technical definition on here. No. And I just, I find, I just find it quite interesting. Now that I, while I was, I think sustainability is important and there's stuff like BREEAM and I know it's blues into retrofit, but when I was in architecture practice, we talk about BREEAM and doing [00:08:00] this thing and there was the, the true agenda behind BRIA, get the building more efficient. One of the things that I think I've been aware with, though, with sustainability is what I call like greenwashing, it's like, Hey, we're sustainable and they put it on the marketing suites and we can go this and that. Do you find that people say talk about retrofit, but they don't necessarily do it sometimes, James, or do you think that do you think that comes into retrofit now and then?

James Rixon: It's, there's always a risk no matter what you do, I think and certainly in this, yeah, in this space I'd say what I like about, architecture and say retrofit being an area of it I think. There's more genuine people in this part of the industry than I've come across in any, anywhere else.

Stephen Drew: Yeah.

James Rixon: Because, coming together with that sort of passionate understanding of all that we probably need to fix the environment. And actually, we're in quite a good position to take responsibility for the parts that, that we're [00:09:00] affecting. That's generally those people from that, from the architecture, not just architecture, construction industry, have found their way there.

They're also, and I'm not speaking for myself, I'm speaking for many of the other people I've met, but really very clever and very smart and very quick to call out things that Let's call it green greenwashing anyway. Or I think others might, call it bullshit, but quick to call that out and say, look, that's not a thing.

Let's just crack on. So it, it's always a risk, but I, yeah. Go back to the, that sort of, let's say the retrofit world being a very genuine place. So yeah.

Stephen Drew: Nice. I thought so. I just wanted to double check and I do think you can spot true agenda really. And that would permeate the design and stuff, isn't it? Anyone can tack something on the roof and say it's sustainable, but actually true retrofit design. And that's the other thing is that true retrofit and innovation in design, it doesn't need to actually be expensive for the end client always, James, isn't it?

[00:10:00] You can do it inexpensively by just putting a lot of thought and consideration into the design, right?

James Rixon: Yes. Yeah, a hundred percent. It doesn't need to be expensive. I think it's, there is a. There's sort of an understanding there, but it can be, and it also depends how you look at it. I think part of this process is not just seeing what you can do now, but actually looking to looking forward into the future.

And if you're looking in the idea of a context of a building what's that building going to be? And what's that? And what's the end goal? And for a home, it's much more static, I'd say, if you offer some retail spaces that are ever changing to the market, what's required.

But for a home, for a home and a house, it's, that may look like, you generally, if you're having that conversation, having it with a homeowner, and that can be, okay, it might have an extension and it might have a loft conversion, it might have this or that, might reprogram it, but it doesn't.[00:11:00]

All that doesn't all have to happen at once. That might be, okay, so what are the steps now if we know in 20 years time, we're going to have a, we're going to double the size of our house with a couple of extensions, but actually, what do we need now? What steps can we take now to upgrade it and to make it low carbon and healthy and comfortable to live in?

And then that's, That's a much more, rewarding conversation because it's actually unpicking all of the issues because there's so many directions you could turn as well. I think, which is another issue in terms of, what do you do first? Okay. And when you've decided what you do first, is it going to preclude something else?

Or if you go back to, if you answer that, you come back and you're like, okay, 20 different ways to do that one thing, which is the right one. So There's a lot of going forward and then they're working way back. And that's, yeah, but then that's, typical of the Retrofit process.

Stephen Drew: I'm learning from you. You're teaching me, James. I don't know too much about it, but I'm learning a lot as we go [00:12:00] through. While we were talking now, we had a flurry of little comments that come in. Peter Hudson says, hi. So hello. Tanis gives us the little thing emoji and Amin says, I can't hear anything now.

I think maybe you just haven't got your headset on Amin. But in the audience, if you can't hear us, let us know. It hasn't happened now. Amin, I think you need to plug in your thing. Try not to give me such a heart attack when I'm live that no one can hear us. I'm all joking aside. What I'd love to go into though, James, while we're here as well, is because I think it's exciting.

You've done the briefing of setting up your architecture practice. Well done. Everyone's dream. Everyone's dream. I didn't quite get there myself. Got the part two, but what I'd love to know is that it takes a lot of guts running a business and I have a different business and I always say that you have to be a bit insane to run a business because you're up against so much.

Can you tell us when you set up Rixen [00:13:00] then?

James Rixon: Yeah, so I set it up. Ooh, about, let's say seven years ago, because when won't spend the time to try and think about that far. So about seven years ago and we moved, generally moved around. So we moved up from c well moved from Cambridge here down to South London and then from South London back up to Cambridge here.

It's mainly just, it's. Revolves around where I've been with the family. I guess I suppose we should say also there was a year we took it international by because we took a year out wife and I took the kids out for a year out and went traveling around the world. For a period was, I think, Wix and Architecture was digitally nomadic, if that's the right term to describe a practice, which is quite good.

Yeah. Which is actually very satisfying to be submitting planning applications from from beachside around the world. That was

Stephen Drew: Oh, you live in the dream. Was this before the pandemic as

James Rixon: It was before. Yeah, unfortunately it was before the pandemic.

Stephen Drew: you were ahead of the curve. You were ahead of the curve. My gosh.

James Rixon: Yeah. Unfortunately we came back from [00:14:00] all of that fun to, to enjoy lockdown or to, sorry, to enjoy Covid in the uk.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I was going to say that dream of the beach, it could go a little bit scuppered there. Just a quick interlude. Our friends who couldn't hear anything now can. Hooray! The panic is over. The panic is over. We'll be testing you on your retrofit knowledge by the end. I digress, but what was it like during the the pandemic for you then going from this online digital nomad, doing your work, setting things up.

And then you were in the pandemic. Did that affect your agenda of like sustainable retrofit architecture?

James Rixon: Not massive, not massively. It probably gave us actually more time to reset. And I, that's the same talking. So a lot of people they would, again, working in similar areas, it just gave us more time to have a think and a little bit of a break from the permanent, and which you'll know the permanent client stress of, oh my God, we're, we're building a building now.

And then [00:15:00] the next one, and the next one. And because, yeah, because of that, it was a little break and looked at the training that we actually, yeah, looked at the training we wanted to do that was filling in the gaps that we felt a little bit. The felt that we had in our knowledge and for advising clients.

For example, carrying out Certified Passive House Designer course that was, that's really super helpful in getting a basic understanding of building physics. Because as I think, retrofit is. It's more technical because you've got to, you've got to be understanding how the walls and the building fabric is working, walls, roof, floors, and it's all working together.

And I guess that without that, there's a certain, there's a certain winging it or just having the confidence to know that because you're the architect, you know what you're talking about, which I. I do not contain, condone that approach. So yeah, so I guess doing those sort of trainings looking at the networks, because a lot of, again, as with everywhere, they are online, online network, and a lot of [00:16:00] industries flourished over that time.

And there were a lot of positives that came out of that. Aside from having multiple Zoom meetings a day And then there was some great networks. So I think that was a big positive. And that's actually when I started started involvement with Architects Climate Action Network as well.

So that was very, very online,

Stephen Drew: and let's just touch upon that briefly before we move on. So ACAN I'm familiar with. I'll try to bring it up in the background. If anyone sees me clicking around, it's because I need a PA and I'm live and I'm trying to do it all. Anna. Sorry, I'm sounding like Mariah Carey here now. I'm having my diva moment.

Do you want to explain what ACAN is while I bring it up on the screen, James?

James Rixon: course, yeah, so ACAM, Architects Climate Action Network came was established off the back of the 2019 climate protests by a small group of architects and it snowballed into the I've fallen in love with a huge amount of work what it is today there's seven thematic groups, there's international chapters from around the [00:17:00] world, from, Australia Australia, there's some in the Nordic countries with ACAN Scotland and I guess, the one that's in UK split into the seven seven thematic groups. So everyone coalesced around particular topics that were really, the Interrelated, but interrelated in in time of action. As it got involved in lots of campaigning and education and generally just pushing the agenda of of how to do things better and in the architecture world.

Stephen Drew: If anyone and the audio listeners, it's actually the website is www.architectarchitectscan.org.

James Rixon: I'd say architects can.

Stephen Drew: Oh, architects can.org. Oh no. It got lost to me, didn't it? Someone really fought that out. Architects, you can.

James Rixon: Yes, exactly. Architect scan sounds good as well.

Stephen Drew: That would have been the domain for 3D printing, but it was never to be. ACAN [00:18:00] got it just in time. I love ACAN because it has people like yourself with this wealth of knowledge, but also it has people who are maybe coming up in their careers. And when we met, James, I know we talked about, I'm just keen to do Retrofit on this.

So that's why I'm nagging you about Retrofit in particular. However, we. We got along first time when we talked because you were conscious of young architects or mid architects in terms of their career and that kind of upskilling per se or, keeping in mind that generation now, what's your thoughts then on things at the moment from that front, do you have any advice that you would give a young architect who's passionate about sustainability, is graduating and studying in 2024?

James Rixon: Yes, I think I Until you said graduating and studying, I was about to talk about more things they could do to educate themselves, but I think that's a bit unfair. Because that's just really mean to put more work on, probably working 80, 90 hours a week to get the, get their project out the [00:19:00] window and please their ever grumpy tutor.

Stephen Drew: yeah. A fair. Let me revise it then. So they've just graduated, they're out of the grumpy tutor zone. So now you're a young professional in the industry. How do you start, like going along this journey?

James Rixon: I think, there's a lot, there's a lot of extra things you could do. I said firstly, let's say join ACAN. I think that's a great, it's a great network. There's a lot of energy there. And again, and similarly, what I was saying about the Retrofit community, everyone's, I haven't met a bad member yet.

Everyone's there happy to help. And again, Because in this space we're all, we're all learning we've all realized it's, things aren't, things haven't been going particularly to plan to put it mildly on the climate perspective. So what what can we do and generally what can we do to work together?

So join AECAN. Join the AECB. So Association of Environmentally Conscious Builders, Buildings, they're great. There's a, [00:20:00] might be able to do, I don't know about the membership scheme. Have a look. There you go. There's the AACB. So join the AACB and that's, there's a huge amount of knowledge there that could be shared and they've got a number of a number of different training courses.

Their retrofit course is a good course to do as a background. They've got introduction to building physics written by Glow. That's generally a good one. So I think my advice there is, yeah, fill in the gaps. Because it turns out that, I think if. Come out of university expecting to know that everyone knows what they're talking about.

I think when you start looking at this, you'll realize not, there's not many people that do, so I definitely gravitate towards the AACB on that one, on that side of things. I am. So yeah, I guess join the AACB and then get aware of the roles that have been identified is something just to make it sound exciting.

PAS2035 is a public available publicly available specification.

Stephen Drew: [00:21:00] PAs, what was it, James? I'll bring it

James Rixon: PAS2035,

Stephen Drew: 2035. My goodness. I've got it. I found it. Oh, on the Retrofit Academy's

James Rixon: there you go. There we go. So if you're going to try and make things exciting for people, I'd say let's look at a public available publicly available specification. So that is that is guidance and sets out a specification and an approach of delivering retrofit and that is mandatory in in government funded projects.

I guess why that's interesting is it identifies a number of different roles. So whether that's retro, retrofit assessors, designers and coordinators being the main ones. So there's a lot of upskilling and education offered around those roles which can be carried out by an architect.

So I'd investigate some of those. I think this, the closest the architecture role is probably is why it's either the retrofit designer or, and or the retrofit coordinator. So yeah, check [00:22:00] those out or, and then, and or anything to do with working with historic buildings as well, because there's a huge amount of crossover with the training and upskilling.

Offered by those qualifications with what you need to understand about a building when you're retrofitting it. Because those have, those courses have been around for years of how, how to yeah, how to assess and understand the building. So that's really the biggest part of retrofit.

Stephen Drew: Very interesting. Now recently I put in an AI chatbot on the architecture social. I was, I'll always be amazed. I'll get a few normal questions and then it'll go design me an extension. And bear in mind, this is the text prompt. You get that kind of stuff, but where I'm going with is that.

In technology at the moment, I see a lot of really advanced AI tools doing stuff like master planning, new builds, how many flats can you get in this configuration? How much can we do that stuff? It seems like a lot of that is geared towards new build, new [00:23:00] things, and I'm just wondering James if.

Retrofit is a good example of, you can't really do this stuff yet, it's still very much tailored based upon the existing structure and building what's your thoughts on that kind

James Rixon: Yeah, that's a tough one. Where to start? I think as, yeah, you've hit it on the head as much as it's a challenge because it's an existing system that needs to be improved. These sort of be recorded and understood and then, so the design side of, the design and understanding is actually, that sort of middle bit is very, say, very easy, but quite straightforward.

And there's a, there's a number of ways, if you're looking at, thermal, Modeling to carry that out. So that's quite straightforward. But so the challenge parts are the strategy, the assessment, the strategy, and then the actual implementation itself, because the oversight of that work and and the technicality of that work.

It's, we could solve, we could [00:24:00] streamline the middle bit, with a AI, but unless we've got a chatbot that can install external wall installation,

Stephen Drew: Yeah, we're stuck.

James Rixon: Yeah. Yeah,

Stephen Drew: agree. I always comment about students. I can see if I was a part one, that I'd have the first temptation to put all that stuff through. But, we're not really there for architecture. I don't think it works. Very interesting though, hearing that. Do you find, I find that I do use AI.

And stuff like that. These new immersion tools though, for the more mundane practical parts of my business, trying to get a bit of text out and stuff. I think it's really useful for that. Certain prompts. Do you use it within Rixen Architecture for other stuff then?

James Rixon: to some extent, I think for a bit, I'll have a whirl with it for a bit. bit of text because I'm not particularly great at that and that takes me a very long time. So the written words, so that's really helpful. I did have a little go with some was looking at creating a [00:25:00] new logo for for a project that I'm involved with.

And using the AI and that, that didn't go very well. It was enjoyable. It was enjoyable to see the results, but needless to say, we did not use any of the logos or anything. Any none of them were close enough to warrant sort of a professional feel, let's say, but it was quite enjoyable.

Stephen Drew: I agree. I think text, brilliant. Images and stuff. We're going to be harsh critics. The architects for a reason, you have an eye for design. So it may, it makes sense for me. On, on the subject of AI is looking towards the future, what, how do you feel? About the future, first of all, in terms of like retrofit or sustainable, do you think we still as a country or as an industry not doing enough?

If we're being brutally honest, James?

James Rixon: Yeah, that's a given. We're not doing enough. That's not to say we're not open. More and more parts of the industry are not [00:26:00] open to change into improving and I think, yeah, that's probably fair to say as well, but, and then I guess the next bit is the getting on and doing it, because having said all that, we've got, there's a huge amount of intelligent people particularly in our in our industry, it's all, we're we're, General consensus of we know what to do, and we've just got to get on and start doing it.

And that's again why I'm interested in Retrofear, because there's such a huge amount to do. There's Certainly more work for me to do, in my lifetime. And if, if I think of everyone just switched every, every design professional in the industry, we'd still be going at it before way after I retire.

Yeah,

Stephen Drew: so much you can do

James Rixon: yeah, exactly.

Stephen Drew: think talking about it and moving in that right direction and putting it into the public realm is definitely the first step rather than out of sight, out of mind. Or we'll deal with it later, [00:27:00] or there's no time on this project.

James Rixon: There's that. And then I guess that goes on to an accessibility issue as well. That's quite a big question in terms of, okay, yeah, we agree. We all need to retrofit our homes and we've all got to get on with it pretty sharpish. We also agree that it's pretty technical and it takes. A fair amount, a fair amount of, already highly educated design, design and construction professionals, even more time to upskill further to feel comfortable or, to be able to tackle it.

And with that becomes, that comes a cost. And that's a value because, and then, so it's a real challenge of how. Do you do all of that educating and upskilling of either of yourself or your practice and then try and give it away for as cheap, as cheap as possible because we need to make it as accessible as possible to as many people.

So that's a really interesting conundrum at the moment. And that's quite a lot of people are going through. It's it's the part and background of we're considering in setting up, as [00:28:00] I say, this second venture I was talking about, which is the Cambridge Retrofit Hub.

Stephen Drew: Oh, yeah.

James Rixon: So that is on a very similar model, there's a number of very Great and successful examples. There's People Powered Retrofit, there's Cozy Homes Oxford Loco Homes up in Glasgow of place based retrofit and trying to deliver retrofit at scale. So that's what we're setting up in Cambridge.

So it'll be a retrofit assessment design and coordination.

Stephen Drew: that it? Or

James Rixon: Oh, no, that's not it, but I can

Stephen Drew: not it.

James Rixon: can associate my face with it if you like, that's the University of Cambridge.

Stephen Drew: Damn, I'm looking around for it. We'll,

James Rixon: So we've only, we've just, or you might not find it, we might rank on Google. Page eight of Google at the moment.

So we've just set up a website.

Stephen Drew: Is the website? Do you know?

James Rixon: it's, yeah, cambridge retrofit hub.org.

Stephen Drew: All right. Okay. I can find it. Let's bring that up.

James Rixon: so we are yeah, we're just [00:29:00] incorporating as a co-op cooperative at the moment. The Community Benefit Society,

Stephen Drew: Cool.

James Rixon: there you go. Whoever it was who put that website together needs to sort out the the text alignment. But

Stephen Drew: Oh, the architect in you has come out on live stream now. It's just, it's first attempt, Jay. There's, architects is a reiterative process, right?

James Rixon: There's going to be a disciplinary and they're going to get kicked out of this not for profit that they haven't been paid for at the moment. Yeah, so I may have had a hand in setting that up. So thank you for highlighting the issue there. But yeah, this is just a holding page. So we're Cambridge Retrofit Hub and we'll be, and I guess the issue here is of how, so it's not necessarily providing up.

Architectural Services, because we're looking at implementing retrofit measures as efficiently as possible. So there's a lot of, it's a very interesting part of the industry at the moment, because it's how do you do all that design without spending the time to do any of the design?

And then how do you empower clients, clients and homeowners? [00:30:00] Onto the next step of, and in the right direction and in a sort of in a confident way that they're actually, getting on a decarbonizing their homes, they're not just, which is the risk. They're not just installing and, another sticking plaster with a view that in 10, 10, 15 years time, that's all going to be ripped out and put something else in that might be the right thing.

As part, there's part of that, there's an education of the client, education of the delivery industry as well doing up, upskilling upskilling trades people, I I say, for example, we've got free airtightness testing weekend that's happened this weekend, a number of, for a number of contractors organized by my co director at the Retrofit Hub We've got a couple of respected airtightness testers that are going to come along and provide some basic training and understanding of all of the issues that we come across on a daily basis in construction and how we can resolve those.

So there's a lot of threads to be pulling on all at the same time with this. Yeah. Yes.[00:31:00]

Stephen Drew: step at a time and don't fire the website developer, especially when a lot of this stuff, and I just want to point that out is that I think a lot of people like ACAN is it's a, what you call it, network is people basically doing it in their spare time, outside of their jobs.

Like the Cambridge retrofit hub, what you're doing now. And. I think that, that's an incredibly noble thing, because you're not getting paid for it, and it's on top of your job, so anyone involved in that I think it's 10 decentralized. That's what I mean. It's like a supportive network. So I do think people should get involved.

It's actually, and it's quite fun. Everyone I've met at ACAN has been pretty cool. So you should get involved, but with that, because it's decentralized, you almost need more people, to make the burden down on the individuals carrying the throne, leading the way, leading with, I would say carrying the torch, you get what I mean, right?

James Rixon: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not at all. No, of course, because that's for health and safety reasons. It wouldn't be a tour.

Stephen Drew: Yeah,

James Rixon: [00:32:00] It was a placard, a recycled placard with the corners cut off, I

Stephen Drew: absolutely. An LED light, which is, on a sustainable source. We'll do that. People should get involved. While we were talking, we've had a few comments that come in. A few people have said hello, but Dr. Liz lovely to see you. Dr. Liz online says. There was a plan at some point that the RIBA were going to give an award for Retrofit, but I don't think anything came of it.

Is that the truth? I'm not too sure, but should we be bringing, should we be doing more Retrofit in this stuff? Probably, right?

James Rixon: think there should be, yeah, I'm not 100 percent sure about the RIBA awards on Retrofit. I know the AJ have their Retrofit first campaign and I know there's a lot of. Push and certain communities for more emphasis on the retrofit. I'm fairly sure they've done something. There's definitely, you're good at Googling.

I'm sure you can dig something up. But I guess the issue, the, yeah, the issue there is [00:33:00] agreeing on the metrics and the, and the assessment, because, you've got two things that you're looking at, really, you're looking at the embodied carbon, which is a big, the one big metric.

to look at there, or then the operational carbon as well. How much energy you're using at the time, or for the building to run. And there's a balance between the both. And the, but as with anything, there's a different way of measuring it. It's, I don't think it's a feet and inches, millimeters kind of issue.

But yeah, and there's a big risk on some of them, particularly in body carbon that it, of misreporting and it's not necessarily due, due to the sort of, at the design end, but it's just the way that it's reported throughout, throughout the supply chain. So there's a lot, there's a lot of work to be done on that side of things, but there you go.

Okay. AJ Retro. Retrofit awards. So

Stephen Drew: There's one awards. But AJ, you get no more airtime unless you, you pay me and James, right? That's all you get, but I'm glad that [00:34:00] you're doing an award. So it's a balanced thing. It's well done, but if you want us to promote it officially, then you'd have to let us know. Jokes aside, it is actually good seeing this again, popping more and more into the mainstream.

We had another comment from Alison Proctor, who's an ACON member, and she says, James and Stephen, listed resources for the design and construction sector are on her profile on LinkedIn. She's got a little blog, Alison's got it. So Alison Proctor, shout out. Audio listeners, you can find Alison also on LinkedIn as well.

Now, that's quite exciting. There's a few things happening. Now, James, because I know you've got, you're running your practice. You've also doing the Cambridge Retrofit Hub. I can't use your time forever, but before you go, I always like to say, if there's one or two questions that you have for me, is there anything you wanted to ask me live on the spot?

James Rixon: Oh God. I've got, there's all the questions you told me I wasn't allowed to ask you, so obviously

Stephen Drew: lie. I said just one, but carry on.

James Rixon: and all of that mean, that's just going round and [00:35:00] round in my, so I can't think of anything. There's not really much else. I'm trying to think and now I'm trying to think of, I've gotta ask you a distraction question so I'm not asking particular.

Stephen Drew: You can ask me whatever you want. Go on.

James Rixon: around that subject. Can you tell me what you know about Retrofit? There

Stephen Drew: don't think enough architects practices incorporate it. I think some people do it and a good job, but has it become in the public realm that I think people ever talk about assist it. Most architectural practices focus on sustainability of BIM and I know retrofit tends to fall in sustainability.

Not that you get what I mean. I think you can get clobbered in there. Whereas Retrofit is its own art form as well. Having said that though, I think that there are some amazing examples of people like yourself, different scales of architecture practices doing Retrofit. And I do think it's really important.

I'm, we're in London and I rent offices as well. A cool friendly WeWork that was an old [00:36:00] building at some point that's been refurbed. And I do think that a good retrofit really is part of part of the charm of things. And also some of the best clubs or hotels or whatever you go to, you've got, this used to be a something and now it's this or repurposing it.

I think that adds so much character. So I do love retrofit, we were joking before I'm in Lewisham. There's lots of opportunities here, James. I'm not going to let the Lewisham council know what you said about Lewisham before we went live. It was all compliments.

James Rixon: was loads, there was loads of compliments. I think it was about eight, eight compliments one

Stephen Drew: Yeah, it was like 10.

James Rixon: yeah, I was at ten. Yes. Yeah.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, although I, we were joking about Lewisham's internet, which is very bad actually, so it is really bad. But no, I do think it's important. Do I see many roles that are popped online for retrofit architects? Usually with commercial, that's where I see it come into.

Looking for an architect who's done office place, workplace, with retrofit, [00:37:00] I think is really quite, A good skill set and I do think that if an architect embraces good retrofit as part of the design process, they're quite employable. So yes, however, do I see people talk about retrofit from the hills apart from you?

Not as much as I like. So I think there's a bit more work to do in the retrofit space, isn't there? But that's why you're setting up a hub really James, isn't it? To get conversation

James Rixon: Yeah, a hundred percent is. I guess a little bit on the hub, the reason why we set up as a we set up as a cooperative, as a community benefit society is, to position us, to position, say, ourselves in the hub as a trusted go, go to place. I think one of the big, going back to what you were saying earlier, is there much greenwashing.

There's, there is, when you start to pick away, there is so much noise and there's, a house is, or a building is quite. As a complicated system there's so many solutions, whether it's for the wall, the wall construction or the wall finish or the, or the [00:38:00] windows or the, the window dressing, all of a sudden you've, there's a lot of noise.

So we wanted to position ourselves away from another, another company offering the solution to make your house comfortable and sustainable. But you Really to try and as a point and a catalyst for local industry to galvanize around because it's going to be a lot of there's a lot of knowledge sharing.

And I think Cambridge is a great place for it as well. I've only been here eight months. And there's so many. I think, so Jonathan Atkinson very important person in in community led retrofit, he describes the uptake curve, um, where we are at the moment, we're in trying to get to the early adopters stage, but we're at this, the stage now where it's, I can't even think of the terminology now.

I should have written this down

Stephen Drew: No, we don't prefer anything for this podcast. It's not in keeping

James Rixon: you don't

Stephen Drew: we just go live. That's how it is. That's what I think people like. Yeah.

James Rixon: straight in. So [00:39:00] I was thinking, what, where was I trying to think of innovators. So the innovator stage. And that's what I was, I've seen in Cambridge, I, I've been to quite a few different, let's say, social and networking events and then around domestic retrofit and speaking to the people who are involved now, I met a man who is oh, I've designed my own heat pump. I've designed and installed my own heat pump.

Stephen Drew: As you do.

James Rixon: yeah, of course, as you do. And there's so much invention and inquiry yeah.

In Cambridge at the moment. And then there's some exciting people to help and similar with, I'd say, with some of the installers are working with particular heat pump installer or heat pump designer, and they're not just looking at just putting, putting in more, another heat pumps, but they're looking constantly at how they can improve the system and make it more efficient and make it cheaper.

And where is it in that process, what's missing and what needs inventing? So yeah, it's a great, it's a great. Place to be at the moment, I'd say.

Stephen Drew: Nice. I am [00:40:00] still excited about Retrofit. If you retrofit any fancy members, clubs and stuff, I'm expecting an invite after this

James Rixon: Certainly, yes.

Stephen Drew: in Cambridge. Sounds good. A lot of amazing, I was going to say science. In Cambridge, especially the architecture, all laboratories and stuff is very interesting.

So I'm going to watch that space. Now let's do a rundown of all the ways people can find you. So I think it was important. We shout out again to the new hub that you've set up, because that's going to be really cool. Not just for Cambridge, but it's in Cambridge. It's both, isn't it? So it's the Cambridge retrofithub.

org for our audio listeners. And you can find where can we find your practice, James?

James Rixon: So we are in, we're in the centre of Cambridge, despite, we're having a little bit of an issue with Google at the moment, because it doesn't want to let us update our Google Maps listing. But, so we are in the centre of Cambridge, despite Google telling you we're still in Peckham. Can travel,

Stephen Drew: It'll take time. You need to get that code from Google. I've done it before. You've got to be there. You've got to get the [00:41:00] code and all this stuff. You'll be all right.

James Rixon: No, not now I have to do, I have to do a video call,

Stephen Drew: Wow. Oh, I got in just in time

James Rixon: yeah, you got the, did you get the postcard? So we had a postcard, yeah, the last time, yeah, this is a whole video call, and if you don't meet the criteria, you're just, you're left where, you're left where you were, so

Stephen Drew: How does that even work? You're like, I'm here, and they're like doesn't look Cambridge y

James Rixon: yeah, exactly. It looks like Peckham. So yeah, we are, we're not in Peckham, we are in Cambridge and you can find, yeah, find us there, find us through our website and telephone numbers will work. And as do email addresses. So there you

Stephen Drew: Yeah, James is there if you're in Cambridge, pop by, thank you so much on that note for being you, James, I really appreciate the raw, honest conversation about, your awesome studio, digital nomads who, flourish in practice. Now you're going to juju up the Cambridge retrofit scene. I have [00:42:00] no doubt, keep me in mind and I will bang your ears about retrofit questions and you'll wish you never went on this podcast, I'm sure.

That will happen. But thank you, James, so much. I really appreciate it. Stay on the stage for one minute, James, while I wind down in the audience. But I want to say a massive thank you for tuning in as well. I love it when people participate in this, even if your microphone was off when it really was on.

That's really what makes these episodes a good laugh and thank you to my guests and all this stuff. I think I've got one or two more popping up, but I'm going to have a break for a day or two because, I've got to do some real work to pay the bills myself. Thank you everyone. I'll see you soon and have a lovely day.

Take care. Bye bye now.