The Importance And Impact Of Architecture Mentoring, Ft Dhruv Gulabchande

The Importance And Impact Of Architecture Mentoring, Ft Dhruv Gulabchande
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[00:00:00] Hello everyone. And welcome. And thank you for joining us on this late special. I am so pleased because actually we've got an awesome guest here and I saw what they were up to on LinkedIn, on Instagram, ~actually. I think I've seen on LinkedIn as well. And ~I was so impressed because, as mentoring and supporting others in the community is a real close theme that I'm passionate about as well.

Without further ado, we have Drav from Narrative Practice also collaborating on an effort with~ let me bring it up now, my brain's gone, it is ~HFM, Architects and designers. Drav, welcome to the stage. How are you? very much. Yeah. Gosh, you've got a clap going there in the background too. Yeah, not too bad.

Thank you. Brilliant. You just imagine that virtual audience who are out there joining us in the evening. Maybe it's two people, maybe it's 200, but with the show goes on. ~Either way, so ~in your own words, can you tell us a little bit about yourself first and foremost, and maybe [00:01:00] your architectural background and stuff?

Sure, absolutely. I'm an architect and associate director currently at ~London Vice Practice, ~HFM Architects. So I have around about nine years of experience now in retail, commercial, public realm. I mainly deal with high street thresholds and the evolving nature of the retail beast itself. A bit of background in teaching, I was a studio tutor at the University of Brighton and Sheffield dealing with multiple briefs along the way, climate, culture, storytelling, all sorts, and I also lead, as you say, Narrative Practice, which is an architectural student mentoring, design, and research platform.

The mentoring is currently done through our day to day practice, which is Architects and it's hosted by Kalki, who's our service provider. And the current research is to do exactly with that. So diversity among the profession, and then also a little [00:02:00] bit to do with the reconfiguration on the high streets.

So that's me. Oh, and I'm currently in London. Hey, there you go. You get a round of applause. It's carried in so much stuff. I don't know if I could do that. But ~I, I was impressed, right? Because ~for what you've taken on is really interesting. So there's two parts of the coin or three parts of the coin here, because I would love to talk a little bit more about narrative practice.

And I'll bring up on Instagram, the narrative practices, and you can expand upon that in a second. But just so I understand then Drew, so this collaboration you're talking about, ~so ~narrative practice is ~what you ~Your passion project, what you do, ~HFM, ~you love it. That's where you work as well. And so ~this this, ~these sessions that you do, that's a combination of both worlds.

And that's what initially caught my attention because it's to do with architecture mentoring. So tell us how that came about then. So it actually started at the start of the pandemic. So this is March [00:03:00] 2020. Everything is kicking off. ~And We couldn't really do anything. ~We have friends and family that were in the medical profession who immediately were able to help in the hospitals, assisting people.

But as architects, we thought at the time we couldn't do anything about it. So with a little bit of experience behind me through private tutoring, I decided, okay let's start something that I've been sitting on for a while, which was narrative practice. And it was. Born out of this. Aimed to try to help people who had lost their institutions.

Some of the institutions across the world hadn't, just weren't geared up quickly enough. And thankfully, we were at the time. And what happened is that we went to Virtual for two years, helping around 150 students, 250 sessions or so, and with the help of [00:04:00] some of my very close friends and colleagues that's how we started.

Now, at the time, I hadn't told my director that we were I'd be doing this, but after a while, I thought it probably would be best and he was very supportive. So we continued. Now two years later I've now stepped into the associate's role at the practice and this has just meant that I can't teach as much ~of the institutions.~

I would have loved to have continued at Sheffield from last year. However, this is the natural evolution and Sessions was essentially born from that. Very cool. ~Sorry if I'm clicking at all the wrong stuff on Instagram, you know what it's like doing it live on here. So if there's any things that you want me to in particular, bring out a showcase, please let me know.~

~But yeah it's amazing, isn't it? And I'll bring up the website as well. And I can see that you've got such a reception. on Instagram. ~Now, I've been struggling at the 4, 000 mark for a while, partly. Now, that's interesting. You started during the pandemic. The Architecture Social started in the pandemic during that time as well.

There's nothing like being furloughed, for me speaking. I know it's a bit different for yourself, but nothing like being furloughed to be [00:05:00] thinking I need to do. Something else with my time. And actually there was a few key people in March, 2022, good people from the industry, like yourself. Chris Hartis comes to mind, which was a director at Squires and Partners, who would be on the Architecture Social forum, because that's pretty much what it was in 2020, helping people out with mentoring.

And it's quite complicated, though, mentoring, isn't it? ~That's why hats off to you. ~It's not as easy as you think I'll just rock up and chat. You've got to structure it. You've got to support people, like you say, helping people from different backgrounds, which is really important, being inclusive like that.

And also people's, they learn differently, right? So how did you go about this task then at the start from the blank slate? To be frank, it was a little bit like drowning. And you paddle, and you try to come above water for a little bit. And that happened a few times. [00:06:00] We began, I remember the first student that got in touch was from Hong Kong, which meant that the time zones were such that I would have to wake up extremely early or the other way around extremely late.

And That continued for a while, and the structure then began from there itself. So we would start by saying, okay, this is completely about you, and we only want to help in as clear and coherent way as possible. If this is not helpful, please immediately let us know. ~Because even our limited experience would not be able to deal with briefs across the world.~

And we were pretty transparent about that. Beyond that, however, it became quite apparent that students were finding it helpful and that they were coming back and so the mentoring element was very much important. led from tutoring say a 30, 45 minute tutorial, but then progressively became repeat tutorials to then [00:07:00] mentor these students along the way.

And those students who joined us in the very beginning are still in contact, which is always a great thing to See, and sometimes you also see them in person at the sessions that we've just started too. ~Yeah, no, carry on. Sorry, Drogba, just because it's like online with these things. Don't worry.~

~We're just, we're, it's a relaxed conversation. Sometimes it's the second or two delays. We're sorry, audience. I'm not deliberately trying to cut anyone off. Carry on. It was more than I just noticed what you were flicking through. That, ~that image there is actually something I've been working on recently, which is as part of this reconfiguration study, as part of HFM, this is a more day to day thing that I've made look pretty, for Instagram purposes.

It has a deeper purpose. Now, those who don't know me, and those who do know me, I'm from Bradford in West Yorkshire. I was born and brought up there. And I came to the University of Westminster in 2010. Now up to that point, I hadn't really realised that architecture was for me at that time. ~And it was always tutors and it was always mentoring.~

There is always this relationship back to architecture. your previous learnings and your previous academic experience that [00:08:00] somehow relate to what you're doing today. I always think back to this point and I guess this diagram that you've got up on screen has just reminded me that I am from Bradford and I go back and I think about it And I want to help there as well, which is what we're trying to continue doing with sessions too.

~Yeah, this, ~yeah this drawing shows shopping centers in the city center though, and how it impacted the high street, which is a completely different conversation, ~but yeah. That's fine, isn't it? ~You can take the man out of Bradford, but you can't take Bradford out of the man, right?

So ~you gotta, ~you have to know your roots. ~And I guess that's an interesting point, actually, because ~I grew up in Wales, South Wales, and at the time, there was only the University of Cardiff, right? And you had that straight A's to get in there. And now they've got Swansea, which is great, because I'm from there.

It would have been good to go there. But I can remember ~that even ~that feeling of it's quite inaccessible to study architecture. Back at that point. And it all worked out well. I went to Westminster, made some good friends and [00:09:00] here we are ~thing, ~but ~it would have been useful. ~It would have been useful to have that support early on.

And you're right. I fell into architecture and I did want to do architecture, but you rock up and either it's like bootcamp, even the first year, isn't it? And I know everyone says it's easy. However, it's not. It's really good to have some kind of support structure during that time.

And furthermore, I think the kind of the key bit at the moment, and I hear it come up and up again, ~but we all need to take a bit of accountability and work on it, ~is the bridge between academia and professional practice. Because I don't know about you, Drav, but I, when I was not ready ~to~ to go into professional practice.

I had no clue what to do, and I had a mini existential crisis at the time, what I haven't felt like, I don't understand even where to begin. Is a lot of your sessions then for people in between academia and professional or can they be doing academia or what's your, what areas do you [00:10:00] laser focus on then?

The current laser focus is on the students that are in the architectural system currently. ~The however is. ~It's open for everyone. Those who are thinking about architecture, as well as those who are in the realm of architecture, so they don't need to be architects, they can be interior designers, they could be urban planners, they could be thinking about planning and construction just in general, we will ultimately try to help where we can.

Now, What we're currently getting, or the, yeah, the gist of the flow of students has been how do we get jobs recently, which has been very interesting conversations. So what we have done is gone through CVs, we've gone through portfolios and layout. non bias ways of presenting information, such as not including profile pictures, not including things [00:11:00] like your nationality and date of birth, even though they may be seen sometimes as useful on applications.

Inherently there are these subconscious biases that we have that may not be useful especially when it should be, or could be primarily based on the skill, on your skills for a job role. So we've had those conversations, but I have been leaning into this 16 to 18 year old realm recently. I'm currently signed up with the arts emergency to try to be paired with a 16 to 18 year old students ~at the moment.~

~And. ~That's made me think that we could probably expand sessions to be something similar to where we approach students in local areas or within local boroughs. One of our first aims is actually to go back to where we grew up. So Bradford will be the first one. And next Thursday, we've got a conversation with the sixth form that I [00:12:00] went to, to try to hold the careers or At least in architecture, but perhaps expanding out to other creative disciplines as well.

Yeah, very interesting. And hats off to you because it is very, I'm glad that you laser focused on one thing. You're right though, the world's kind of blur. And actually, I think that Getting a job. The more you're involved in the mentoring at the start or in the middle of while they're doing the academia, I think it probably eases it, to be honest, ~when they, ~when the person comes to looking for a job, because you can instill those things as you go.

A good example that I see a lot is sometimes go out, people go, should I Redo my project or something to tweak it for applications. And I think that's probably not the best use of time anymore. I think look whatever kind of project that you've got, especially as a part one, you just need to make the best of it because.

That [00:13:00] ship has sailed. Obviously, if it's a well rounded project and ~the grades, or not so much the grades, perhaps ~what you got from it and what you can talk about it and that passion, if that passion comes across in the interview and it's a beautiful project, then it's worth it. It's probably gonna help your chances, but to reinvent the wheel, once you've graduated, to better your chances, I think is a losing battle, like the gains are not that much anymore hats off to you for doing, bringing it to life.

It's really interesting you say that though. I also agree. I wouldn't necessarily suggest that they go in this very specific scenario that you're giving. I wouldn't necessarily say, yeah, go away and redo this part. However, if it is something to do with skills and your own learnings, maybe a current project is a good space to start.

Whether it be software or design process, or just the idea of further research to help your future projects, I don't [00:14:00] necessarily agree. ~I don't agree nor disagree with that point, but it's, ~it is going to be based on what the student wants to get out of their next stage, whether it might be a job, it may be a research position.

~Yeah, and so forth. ~I think that where I've seen it work, maybe, is a continuation of the project. So perhaps you say I always wanted to do something in Grasshopper, therefore, I've done that after the studies. And like you say, that can be really valuable. I guess what I'm talking about is revisiting the brief, or I don't know, adding a new element to it.

What I was going to ask you though, is where do you see at the moment, ~and just for anyone while you're watching this, I thought it would be cool if I could put the link to booking in a session at HFM. So that's here. And so I promise I won't keep it on the Calendly link forever, but it's, I think it's just good to probably put it in the background while it's on.~

And if anyone's listening to this on audio, because I'll put it on Spotify after, and the link, if you want to check it out, is actually www.hfm.uk.com/sessions. It's really easy. You can book it ~book one in, ~but so you mentioned you focus on academia, so is it anyone during their [00:15:00] first year, second year, third year, or part one or, and now you've got architectural apprentices, right?

~So where. ~Is it open to all or is there a particular point that people usually drop in? ~I'll try to promote this as much as possible. So ~the principle is that it is for the range of students that are currently in their Part 1, Part 2, Part 3 studies, all the in betweens of trying to look for positions either within the workplace or within Research within academia.

They may want to go away and teach. We've had a series of the principle here is that it is a 30 minute session. It is titled mentoring, however, can be. A design tutorial. It can be a friendly chat. It is essentially a sounding board. I've got a group of very talented and wonderful colleagues, peers, good friends from the past 12 years of my professional career that I've got to know really well and have helped [00:16:00] in setting up and in the mentoring process.

I can't do this alone. And I would be ashamed if I said that I am doing this alone when I have such a great team behind me and aside me. And what happens is on the night when you arrive I will most likely be there to introduce you to the team. And then ~as part of the form, or ~as part of this calendly link, there's also a section to say what stage you're at and what you would like help with.

So then it becomes an effective session where I can then do a little bit of mentor pairing and perhaps engage in that conversation a little bit earlier before the session. So then streamline the process for about 30 minutes. It can become 45, it can become in an hour basically varies on how many sessions we've got for that evening, but ~half an hour is the ~half an hour is the target.

And yes, you can book through the link. I will most certainly [00:17:00] be there to accommodate and facilitate and it's always a pleasure to see students coming from all over. Last week, we had a student arrive all the way from Cardiff. That was a privilege, really, for us and I hope this reaches as many people in those places as well.

I do insist, though, that if it is quite a distance, that probably not the greatest thing to do repetitively. And in which case, a quick email and we can perhaps arrange a virtual session. Distance can be quite a big one. However, what we're trying to do is build a bit of a community.

So the in person sessions is, it's quite nice to see people in face to face after such a long time as well. Oh, we're back. All right. We've got to power through these things, right? Maybe that's actually a good segue to talk about, if you can still hear me now, the advantages of in [00:18:00] person versus online.

Because actually, I think that was a good example of what just happens. You have interference, ~the downsides, ~the internets can go. And that's what I found is that online, sometimes it's a bit of a dice roll. Typically it works. But like then, it doesn't. ~My microphone, when people cut in and out. ~So is that one of the reasons that actually you prefer to do things?

Is your stance in person or online, or is it, as you say, the community building? Because one thing on the counter argument is, Drav, that by doing it in person, people miss out. And sometimes I get people saying to me all the time, can it be online? I can't travel there. So is your stance more in person than online for that reason?

This answer is going to be a little bit close, because my mind isn't fully set on whether I prefer one way or another. ~I'll start with our example that we're talking about now, as in we are talking through this streaming service. I am not able to come to where you are, but I can still have this conversation pretty completely.~

Over the past two years, when I started the initial [00:19:00] mentoring scheme, that was Internationally based. I wasn't able, or we were not able, to meet one another because we had students in Hong Kong, Canada, the States all across Europe, the Asias, you name it. And it was an easier way to have these conversations and, frankly, the only way.

The community element. Yes, we really want to build this community of people. People that come back and engage further and further. This is perhaps a bit early to say, but what we want to do is build on the mentoring, perhaps have Sessions, as a name, evolve into something where we have a lecture series where people can come, or perhaps people can engage in presentations.

Now that would be fantastic as well, but that would need an in person [00:20:00] audience, I believe. But I'm in between, really, because we had a few students who were ill on the first session. Unfortunately, however, they still wanted to speak with us, of course, and so they emailed and they requested, and we offered at the time, and I will say it wasn't easy, but a hybrid scenario where we had in person and virtual sessions happening at the same time.

I think going forward we'll continue to be in person in any way, as opposed to virtual. However, there is a space for both to happen at the same time. ~My preference currently, in person, is the short term. Yeah, fair enough. I I struggle with that as well. ~Especially with the Architecture Social community being online.

To bring it in to the physical. Having said that, I do think that especially after the pandemic, there's an appetite to do something in person and you can't [00:21:00] quite replace that thing of everyone working collaboratively, especially in architecture, around the table, doing the task. I think what better place than ever than mentoring sessions or academia.

I had a really good mentoring session actually in Manchester School of Architecture. Where experts from all around the industry came in, but you're right. So that it's useful having people. And you mentioned that you couldn't do it alone. I think you probably could do some bits alone, but when you've got a wealth of awesome people and different perspectives, it's so good to have all these.

different people involved. What I was going to say is I named this one, the podcast that we're doing The Importance or Impact of architectural mentoring. Now you're giving up a lot of your spare time to do it. ~But I I, what, maybe ~what would be cool is ~the, ~to understand what you take away from it.

It's do you learn some stuff? Is it a time sink? ~Is it, ~can you give us the pros and cons of [00:22:00] someone getting involved if they've been thinking about mentoring, but haven't got ~it ~around to doing it yet?

It's essentially the conversation that I have all the time with friends and peers that are looking to, or that are keen to get involved. I begin with, it is something where you have to care about the students themselves. ~It sounds a bit, yeah, it sounds a bit like I'm bigging myself up here. But I, ~when I say I genuinely want to help the students that are less represented, I thoroughly mean that because I was that student at some stage in my career, and I wish I had that help.

~And to begin with that focus ~and to begin with that value, I think ~other students, ~other mentors, ~I should say, ~really then also engage in that same principle. That's a good starting point. ~Beyond that ~It is a great way to develop personable skills. ~Not everyone is the same. We know this. ~Some people are more social than others.[00:23:00]

Some people are more design oriented. Some people are more research led within the realm of architecture, at least. ~And ~to have different types of conversations with different people, you're also then feeding yourself with all ~of ~this. ~knowledge, ~wealth of knowledge. ~So ~as well as being able to give something as part of the mentoring, you're also gaining something most definitely from the students.

The other thing I will say is that ~my, or ~the opportunity to teach at the University of Brighton, which was at the beginning of the pandemic only came about because I was able to say that I had this knowledge in explaining different design projects, which would schemes of different types of.

Architectural related conversations across the world to my at the time studio partner, who will be your tutor leader. And he acknowledged that it was relevant. And I [00:24:00] think that is another point that mentors may be able to then say, Oh, we've had this experience and may, if they want to, go into the academic field ~as well.~

~Where again, ~As well as the professional side of things, the academic side of things is also very much less represented. And when I say less represented, I mean from a diverse background. And I don't necessarily mean just being a person of colour. A woman. Those who are disabled. ~Those also who are people of colour.~

And hence there is also a part of this current session where we are encouraging those who are from those backgrounds. Because it is still underrepresented in the construction industry and academia. Getting back to the point, mentoring may assist with trying to get people into institutions to therefore better represent the students that are being taught.

At the time, I don't think I had much representation at the time, either. It would have been helpful. I'm not too sure about that. Not [00:25:00] too sure, but I think the principle is that if you do see someone succeeding that maybe looks like you, ~regardless of They don't want to be there. They can stay there.~

~Although the spectrum is way further, um, then it may help. ~So those are my three key points that I usually have conversations around. I also just say that it's quite a lot of fun. There may be a, an in sync is the word you use. It may be seen as one. However, it's very much very much quite fun.

Especially when afterwards you get to debrief, have a quick chat usually. ~At, which is . ~Yeah, absolutely. Nothing wrong with a cheeky pain. What I was gonna say is, you're right because my initial reaction, especially if you're busy, 'cause I remember thinking about this before, is you're busy, right?

~It's ~it's not a purely selfish reason. It's maybe, it's like you actually got, you got a difficult project right now. So the idea of doing a bit of mentoring on top feels impossible, like. Where can I put the time in? But if you can sneak it in, like yourself, I've always felt like I've got something out of it for me.

And actually one of the things in life that I always try to do is [00:26:00] it's like this, we're here, it's seven o'clock, right? And I don't mind because I thank you for coming. But also, ~I, ~it's just nice to do these things, but it could have easily just sacked it off because It's easier just to, lounge around, isn't it?

And I think ~that's ~The greatest thing is that actually then you come away from it and you build up something and ~it's like this, ~it might be a professional relationship that comes out of it, ~oh, ~who knows what. And mentoring, ~I imagine ~is similar because ~you follow, one of the beautiful things is ~you follow young professionals throughout their career and keep up that connection.

Have you started to see that thing then pop up so far? Because I imagine there's, you've been doing this for a little while, I know it's ~And ~2020 is not too far, but I imagine your initial cohort is starting with the career, right? Have you seen a little bit of that evolving and the network that you've been building up kind of flourish so far?

Yeah, absolutely. All the time and it's, it really is the most [00:27:00] wonderful thing. The most recent example is we had a student join us for the first session who was looking for. Something related to research as part of their part two, so they wanted to focus more on less concept, less design, but more research, which is an interesting dilemma in itself, or issue, let's call it.

However, one part of My academic career was that I was teaching at Bryson when we had some wonderful students who went to Delft Who I then engaged in a conversation afterwards and tried to bring these people together so they can each have a conversation about what's what, ~whether it is a good idea to add things to that.~

~ These, that I think that's a very small thing in a way, but ~Bringing these students together was a great way of doing it. A great way of seeing the fruit that makes them. [00:28:00] Seeing all that hard work pay off. And that was a few years ago. I initially started talking to those students as well. ~Another example I always come back to, in my head at least, I've never really spoken about this, but And I'm sure he'll be fine with me saying this, because he's very much in the public sphere at the moment.~

Charlie from FAF, Future Architects Front initially, we had a conversation around this thesis. And that was at the beginning of the pandemic, too. And continuing to see how well he's done, and, of course, his wonderful colleagues, It really does mean quite a bit and again, I've never really said these words out loud, I'm sure you can, and it is really refreshing to see exactly what we're seeing in the sphere right now as well, every day really.

But no, there are multiple, there's two things. ~Yeah, wow the feature~

~ architect's front faff. ~Whether you agree with their ideologies or not, I quite like Charlie. However, you can't deny the impact throughout the industry, right? It's [00:29:00] definitely made an impression and ~I, because I worked at I say worked. That's probably a poor choice of words, when it's the end of the day, I was going to say I was involved, ~I was on the RIBA Council.

And while I can't talk a lot about what happened there, what I can say is that the Future Architects Group Front was viewed as a stakeholder, which means that the RIBA. Really cared about what they thought because Charlie and the team are quite vocal, and I think you need that in every industry.

You need someone that's going to call people out unbiased. I like to think of FAF and Charlie as someone that I can get along with. I have a beer. But also I've got to be careful because if I overstep the line, he'll call me out as well. No one's safe from the FIF, but you need that voice, right? You need someone calling out all the things that we've put up within architecture.

And that's what I was going to say to you, Rob, is because we deal with long hours, which is why I asked the question of [00:30:00] how do you slot in mentoring? And you talked about backgrounds, maybe underprivileged or a difficult situation getting into architecture. But now when you're in architecture as well, it is a tough profession.

It's not the most hugely paid profession. I imagine mentoring as well, people appreciate it because There's no such thing as extra tuition or anything in architecture, right? So what I mean, aside from what you're doing now, are there any other supportive structures out there for architectural students at the moment that you're aware of?

Let's begin with FAS. They are engaging with a community that is less represented and less vocally heard. It is fantastic, so I'll begin there. There are various different collectives that were born around, or probably earlier, the same time that we did. So we [00:31:00] have SoundAdvice, we have CoreCollective, we have ResolveCollective~ there are female driven collectives out there as well, off the top of my head.~

We have EditCollective. Another one that is based within universities is Architects from Oxford Books. There are various different ones out there. Now, mentoring is something I've not come across, hence trying to pursue that. But if I were to think of it, I'm sure I could get one. In fact, maybe that's the next step.

Yeah, I think it's part of the architecture social that I'd like to do. It's a directory of stuff. And I think that trying to organize all these. Collectives or people's ventures, which are amazing, I think would be useful because one of the things I noticed, we're on LinkedIn now, ~we're on, ~this goes out to YouTube and other things, but~ and ~Instagram tends to [00:32:00] be, for whatever reason, there's a lot of these architectural initiatives on them.

Having said that, though, It is still incredibly siloed, right? Do you, I would imagine not everyone knows about the mentoring that you do and tell us a little bit about the success of where you were able to reach out to people or perhaps, Sardar, what, where you'd like to see more people taking you up on the mentoring if you do have any spare slots left, or maybe you fill them all.

~I release regularly so it's not overwhelming or overwhelming the team, actually. I~

think we can have mentor this is the thing, ~mentoring aside, ~really, in a way, the importance really is that we're engaging with these students as much as we can. Frankly, that's the primary purpose of what we want to deal with. That's pretty much it for me. We're [00:33:00] really about to start. But that's it. The silo is generated within the platform because ~ where you, it's a design, ~it's a design tool. And if we can begin engaging with that tool in a different way, perhaps it's been slightly differently and ~start, begin ~to reach out to different types of people, it's a more democratic space.

That perhaps a pause here quite a lot because there is and there are different ways of reaching out. And trying to engage with these different communities in different ways. But for one means that has worked for us so far has been Instagram. And so we continue using it. I hope this helps too. However, students and that age range perhaps, or that demographic is best seen ~through~ through that platform.

I'd agree with that actually. I think that LinkedIn tends to be used by [00:34:00] anyone. ~I had a LinkedIn on my part one, I think I turned it on. Never use it again. ~And then I think it was only during my part two or part three that I started using LinkedIn, although it's really good with your job search, you're right.

Actually, Instagram is a good way to reach out to people, but maybe it's the combination, right? I think perhaps people who are good to be mentoring students will probably come from LinkedIn. Whereas you say TikTok. That's another one that we all laugh about oh my gosh, ~what? ~What a waste of time, this and that, but actually, I can see why people use it, and you have to engage in these mediums, right?

~Especially, as you say, if someone comes from a background where they have, or maybe they don't get much exposure to architecture, ~Maybe the places that they see them are on TikTok and Instagram, right? And those can be very talented minds that need to get in, that we need to suck into construction and architecture to build the better cities of the future.

So maybe you're onto something there. Yeah, the TikTok thing is an interesting one. Because that's I think [00:35:00] beyond the social media generation that I am. I think I stopped, or I started with. The MySpaces and Beagles of the world. And now, I think the last real social media that I use, not real, but the one that I use is probably Instagram and maybe pushing it Snapchat.

And that in itself shows a little bit about where I am as well. So again, it might be representative of me, and my knowledge of these programs as well. Maybe there's outreach on TikTok that might help. And a generation that I'm missing as a model. ~Yeah. Yeah. I am. I'm like you.~

I was in the MySpace when I was like 14 or whatever. So I totally get you where I really do not want to do TikTok, but I know I have to from a business sense or an outreach sense ~like you. ~I tell you what, there is hope for us both though. Because there Russell Anderson is a massive TikToker who's an architect.

And I don't know, [00:36:00] Russell, because we, I, we've spoken a bit, I think you were on the podcast, so hopefully I can say this, I think you might be slightly older than me, and I'm sorry, in this analogy, I think Russell would be like Steve, get a grip and get on TikTok, and he'd be the first one to call me out, so maybe there's hope for us both.

What I was going to say now Is so a quick rundown. I'm gonna quickly put down Hfms link again, which is www.hfm.uk.com for sessions. That's where you book them in. And you can see narrative practice, which is www.narp.co. So you can check out both of them. Those are the links there. But just before we go on all that stuff, Drew, we survived tonight, right?

The technical problems and we're still here, okay? So for the two of the three people that have caught up with my technical fiascos and have been patiently listening to you, now perhaps they can listen to you flip the table around and ask me one or [00:37:00] two questions. That's the first things that pop into your brain because we haven't scripted this.

Is there anything you want to talk to me about the Architecture Social, me or mentoring or whatever? You mentioned you were at Westminster. I'm intrigued when that was, because I'm sure we must have been at the same time. ~ A very naughty Westminster student because I would just go in for the studio days and then I would be in like dorms and the first year it was a bit more carnage, is the nice way I'm going to say.~

And then I didn't, I did all nighters on the second and third year. It was actually my fifth year and I went to Manchester. For my part two of that, I actually knuckled down, and in the final year, I didn't do any all nighters, I tried, I treated it like a 9 to 5, and it was the best grade I ever got, which says that you shouldn't wait around, but to answer your question, I was in Westminster between the 2006 to 2009 before they changed it.

~I started when you left then in that case, which is interesting. So I was there in 2010. ~I ask because you must know certain people there as well. And there are some of the wonderful staff there that I engage with quite a bit. And I wondered, frankly, whether you'd like to join us for a session [00:38:00] one day?

~I would love to. ~I would love to. Do you know what? I've been struggling to get in to Westminster, and I always pop there, and I always have a tequila at Pete Silver's bar, at the end of the year show, because for whatever reason, he's decided, maybe he'll re watch this and re evaluate, but he's Oh, you're alright.

You're one of the cool Illuminati's you can come in. I think Pete likes people, and I would not say cynical, he's got a certain banter. And if you don't take yourself too seriously, you could. He doesn't mind you. So I used to knock around with Pete and what was the other chap's name?

Who knew Will op Pete and Will? It was Pete. Is that who you mean? Peter And Will? Yeah. Will it was Will, will Knew. Will Op. Yeah. And I remember Will OP came in once and I missed it because I was really hungover or something, so I was really terrible. But I'm not too bad now. I don't miss stuff hungover and all this stuff.

I actually. Turn up. So I would love to be [00:39:00] involved. The University of Westminster. I think it was a good uni. I'm jealous that it's all done up now, although I will say as much as it is a good uni, it was terrible acoustics in there. I don't know if you felt that. I couldn't hear anything in the studio. It was the temperature in there as well.

It was either extremely cold or extremely hot, and I just remember being in the studio. Gosh, it needs to make up its mind. ~We~ we would love to have you engage with students as well. It seems like you've got a very personable character and I'm sure the students would be very engaged with yourself as well.

~So I'm sure we can have a chat about that after this as well.~

That's very sweet. You're saying that my character is a polite way of saying I am completely nuts and that's probably true, but yes, I would love to, I would love to. ~I think. ~Probably where I'm best is ~that ~that in between zone of getting jobs in industry, that's my back, whereas the academia work, I think that's really your port of authority, ~I could talk, but ~you've got to know your strengths sometimes in life, right? And having [00:40:00] seen job seekers for 10 years, I start to see all the common mistakes people make, and also I start to see what the practices pick out. Because you at the start said something very appropriate, which was, don't put your picture on your CV.

And I really agree, because unfortunately, while I think the world's getting better, and I say that as a gay man, I think and the industry's getting better, we still have unconscious biases. And we all do, without even knowing it, even if we feel like we're progressive. We have unconscious biases and a picture can trigger it one way or another, or sometimes it can be a positive bias, which is the one that people don't understand, which is positive discrimination, you know?

~I think the journey of I'll explain my journey which has led me to where I am and this is why I want to continue doing this. Is that, like I said, having been brought up in Bradford. Gone from a financially less off background from council estate to council estate due to redevelopment of certain plots of land.~

Falling into a place where we were then able to buy that property as part of that particular political time. ~Then moving around. ~And then moving into London to progress, to proceed with [00:41:00] something that I had no idea what I was going to be doing, really. And then finally being in a position where I can come back and talk about that as a method to, is principally the one thing that you just have to hold on to.

Yeah, said. I completely agree. And I would love to be involved in Westminster. ~And on that note, Swansea Uni. Swansea Uni. ~Invite me in because you've gotta pay homage to where you're from, like you say in Bradford. Come on. You gotta know your roots, I think, and be proud of it. And I tell you the last thing I'd say on that point is, 'cause when I rocked up to Westminster, I was 18.

Yeah. ~And I was like, babe, in the woods, I was the Welsh man who'd never been outta Wales kind of thing. And. ~It was funny because in Wales everyone would be like, oh, in England, they don't really like us. Are you sure you want to go there? And I was like, yeah, I'm going to take a chance. And remember when I was, ~I went, ~I thought like everyone was going to, I don't know, be like, Oh my God, you're Welsh.

And that was completely like, I hate where this comes from, but it was fake news, that was like total, it was total nonsense. I was so impressed. Everyone loved it. ~Everyone was like, ~everyone loved the multiculturalism, in Westminster. [00:42:00] It's a bit of a strange union. I think it's amazing.

You don't have the campus feel, but what you do have is this like intersection of everyone who's come to the city from every culture ever. So I think in that way, it was amazingly. I'm going to be accepting. Having said that, the course was make or break and you had to keep up with the pace.

So much like architecture, if you didn't, you're out. There is a bit of graft involved. ~Possibly at the time when we went, the graft was perhaps forced and a bit of pressure from peers, from maybe certain individuals within the academic sphere. ~And again, That is the other reason why we do this because the importance and the impact of architectural mentoring is exactly that, the change, some distinction of things becoming more positive, things becoming better for the students, specifically, for the students.

Yeah, it would be a shame for people to drop out or anything when, you give them that little bit [00:43:00] of love or intention to get over the end line. Especially when, because it's not I don't know about you, but I was paying like 3, 000 a year to study. It's 9, 000 now. I had this conversation with a director the other day and I was like, do you realize it's about 70 grand to study architecture?

And we have to be honest that the salaries are not increasing probably as much as we'd like in line with cost of living. So more than ever, I think architecture is amazing. As you get to design buildings, you can make, All this stuff to community fabric, you were talking about going back to Bradford and regenerating it.

That stuff is possible, but you're not gonna be rolling in the money in architecture. It's a you have to do it because you love it and therefore, to me, the idea of someone dropping out because they didn't have that little bit of love~ is~ sucks to be honest. Hats off ~for ~you for doing it.

~Perhaps now, because we've got two or three minutes before we get to the nice hour mark okay, we could do an extra minute because my microphone died of death. for a minute. But ~do you have any final thoughts, Gav, before we wind up? Thank you. We'd organized this a couple of months now ago, so it's great to actually be [00:44:00] on here speaking about something that hadn't actually even been set up at the time.

And we were going to talk about, in general, the academic and professional sphere. ~And today, we're talking about something that's something that means quite a lot to me, And that's really great in a way. No, I think we've spoken a lot about me and what we're doing with the sessions. ~I urge students and those in the realm of architecture, If you need to be doing architecture or have a absolute interest in design or concept or research or any in between, you can come in and just have a chat with us about what's going on and we will happily help out as much as we can.

Amazing. Thank you so much for that. I'll give you a quick ~round of applause. If we can still hear it. I don't know. I can't hear it anymore. My end. But anyways, so on that point, yeah, no sound effects. Proper ~round of applause. Thank you so much for being here. ~And then put in that both ways. ~Thank you in the audience for dealing with the tech.

At the same time, ~though, this is a thing. ~If you want to see drop in person, ~Then you won't have to deal with our microphones going in and out, so ~book in one of those sessions. ~with him ~and, come to London and have a cheeky beer after. If you want to see me in person, I'll be at London Build Expo next week.

And I will be checking out one of these events in the University of Westminster ~with with, gosh, it's a HFM and Narrative Practice. ~Thank you [00:45:00] so much, everyone, for getting here. I've got last thing. I got one or two yeses, which came in, which is probably around about the time we were saying, Is the microphone not working?

Thank you, Chris Nazar. However, in the moment, I'll be honest, I didn't catch it. And Gordon has said great beards. ~And I must confess, I seriously need to sort it out. Gordon I haven't got as impressive one as you, though, perhaps. That's really tailored. ~Unfortunately, Gordon, the scruffy one here.

~The proper beards here. ~I'm going to end the live stream now. Stay on the stage, Drav, podcast now. Thank you. Cheers.