Top 10 tips to find and secure a job in Architecture

0021 - Top 10 tips to find and secure a job in Architecture
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[00:00:00]

Introduction and Guest Welcome
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Jack Moran: 12.

Jack Moran: 45 PM. It is the 21st of October, 2020. We are the team at the Architecture Social. I'm your show host, Jack Moran, joined as always by the lovely Stephen Drew and William Ridgway. Boys, how are you doing today? Hello. Hello. Excellent. Excellent stuff. And we have the privilege of we're joined by a special guest today, aren't we?

Jack Moran: Mr. Stephen Glantz, who we've had the privilege of working alongside at McDonald and Company for some time. Stephen Glantz, how are you doing today? I am very well, thank you. Thank you for having me. How are you? You alright? No problem. Yeah, very well. Thank you as much as good as one can be during this year, but we do truck on.

Jack Moran: We keep going though.

Top 10 Tips for Architect Graduates
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Jack Moran: So Mr. Drew, your topic that you've gone with today, I think is going to be quite beneficial for a lot of the architect graduates and above who have been [00:01:00] say struggling maybe to find a job if they haven't been watching our tips in the, you know, over the podcast we've been doing since the summertime.

Jack Moran: So what's your reasoning behind this, Stephen?

Stephen Glands: I just thought it would be good to take a little moment and we're gonna do a top 10 tips. Top 10 tips. We're gonna try it out. If I seem a little bit distracted right now, it's because I have, because there's an error in how to go live on LinkedIn. So I'm not too sure if we are live on LinkedIn or not.

Stephen Glands: Either way we will work, we will work it out. I can see that 10 people have joined. The chat already. Hi, guys. So why not? Top 10 tips. I think it's really good that we've covered so much ground in the last few weeks, months. We've done some awesome topics. We've we've gone in. We've delved deep into CVS.

Stephen Glands: We've delved deep into portfolios. And, and that's a lot to take in. So I just thought it would be good to take a quick moment together and we can flash through Thank you. these top 10 tips that we have, we [00:02:00] can, we can change them. We can tweak them. We can disagree. And not that you would disagree boys, because my list is amazing.

Stephen Glands: I'm joking. My list, my list, my list definitely needs changing. But the point is, I think it's nice to take a moment and we can kind of reflect on what we think are. Maybe the most important things. That's the point of the top 10 tips.

Jack Moran: All right, cool.

Tip 1: Crafting the Perfect CV
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Jack Moran: Shall we dive into tip number one? What do we say?

Stephen Glands: Get Stephen away from the horns.

Stephen Glands: Take me away from the horns, right. Tip number one. So we're going to do it. Well, we need like a little drum roll noise or something. Are you going to do a little sound effect? I don't know. Do you have, do you not have one on your soundboard? I do, I do. But if I start going into that now, we might lose more viewers.

Stephen Glands: Okay, alright, I'll do a little one here now. Oh, hey, there you go. Okay, we're working on it. So, top tip number one that we put is to do with CVs. So, at the moment, [00:03:00] CVs. Clear, concise, and grammatically correct. Now, Steve and Glance, we've worked together for three years. Absolutely love working alongside you, you are a veteran of the architectural recruitment industry with over 15 years of experience and you've seen over 15 years worth of CVs.

Stephen Glands: And when I put in grammatically correct here, I thought in particular that you would enjoy this particular topic. Do you want to kind of run The irony is, is one of my weaknesses but I think it's The point is, is a lot of people's weaknesses. So the point is to double check it or get someone else to double check it because first impression is last.

Stephen Glands: You only get one chance with a CV. So yeah, getting it correct, spelling, grammar, content, message, mega important because I mean, think of, think of the world we live in, the amount of information flying around on all the social media, advertising, newsflashes, articles, emails, [00:04:00] hundreds, hundreds of notifications we all get as individuals every day.

Stephen Glands: So an email into an inbox is the same. It's another bit of information. So how much time that person got to look at it and make a decision? Honestly, five to 10 seconds. That's why it's important to get it right. Yeah, I think, I think so. And going to that point, I think grammar's important. You mentioned five to ten seconds.

Stephen Glands: I completely agree. And that's why clear and concise I always think is key. It's about getting the point across on what you, who you are, what you're about, where you are, what you've done, quick as possible. I think anything that kind of detracts from that in terms of funky formatting. Chunky CVs, which are hard to load or things which are not eligible are going to completely detract from the whole point of it.

Stephen Glands: Jack, what do you think

Jack Moran: CVs? So it's interesting when we started doing this [00:05:00] podcast, one of our first episodes was, you know, a real dissection of the CV. And what Steven Glanz just picks up on is I think the most fundamental part. People who are looking at your CVs within the architecture practices.

Jack Moran: Also have a lot of other tasks to do. You know, they, they are, it might be an office manager, it might be HR, or it might be someone in a lead design role. They are going to be a very busy person regardless. They are not going to spend a whole day just looking at CVs because they have other things to do.

Jack Moran: Like Stephen Glantz said, five to 10 seconds, they're going to be looking at your CV and portfolio. If there are things like grammatical errors, it's really not going to give a good first impression. And like Mr. Glantz said, it is. all about first impressions. If you are someone who doesn't take the time to look over your work, even something as basic as your CV and make sure that everything's spelled correctly, it's all formatted correctly, and the layout is how you wish to present it, then they're not really going to give you a second look because all they're going to say is, well, if this is the lack of detail and attention that's gone into the CV.

Jack Moran: How are they going to perform on a project if, [00:06:00] you know, they're evidently not looking back at the small fundamental aspects of a TV? How can we trust them to do that on, you know, a technical detailing? So it's, it's a small, it's a, it's a small thing, but I don't think it's given enough attention.

Jack Moran: Generally, you know, I do think that and it doesn't just have to be gratuitous. I've seen, you know, I've seen associates, I've seen lead design people with errors on their CV. It affects everyone and it has such a detrimental effect if you do not take the small amount of time it would to take, you know, just to look back over your CV or present it to a friend or a family member and just say, do you mind just double checking this for me just to make sure that I've got everything right and correct.

Jack Moran: That small bit of extra effort will go the extra way.

Stephen Glands: I hear you. And also. In the background, we were tweaking that. I've got LinkedIn to work live, so where it should be now live on LinkedIn. Sorry, this is all new to me as well. I think that's fantastic. I think that really kind of summarizes that point.

Stephen Glands: Let's jump on to the second one, and then maybe what we can do is have a little debate about what we would [00:07:00] change, what we wouldn't.

Tip 2: Building an Impressive Portfolio
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Stephen Glands: So the other one I put is portfolios, because kind of CVs and portfolios goes hand in hand in architecture and portfolios. I put a few tips that I thought were generally good points and see what you think.

Stephen Glands: So I think every portfolio, try to keep it under 10 Meg, because You get stuck at the, they get stuck in inboxes 10 to 15 pages. And this is me more thinking about on a graduate level Steve and Will, Jack, you know, kind of talking about maybe not too much. And you don't want to kind of go off on one and you can get some really good portfolios, which have five pages.

Stephen Glands: But if you're kind of aiming for 10, I think that can be the kind of sweet spot in terms of the ebb and flow showcase variety skills, software sectors, et cetera. And that was kind of my thoughts in terms of, it's always good to be literal. This project, I use Revit. This CV and this portfolio you, you basically say in this image when I was modeling it, I used.

Stephen Glands: Revit, IU, did this in 3D Studio [00:08:00] Max, this was a residential project or this was an academic project where I was looking at universities. So, Steve, what was your thoughts on portfolios? I got some rules. Ah, yes, I want to hear the rules. Okay, Stephen's Grounds is ruled. Let's do it. No, no. I mean, people might be shocked by that five to 10 second thing we've been talking about.

Stephen Glands: Well, that five to 10 seconds is, is the reader establishing if they actually want to read it in detail and look at the thing in detail. So it's a decision with, do I continue reading or do I delete? Full Friday is similar. We need to get the message across clearly and quickly. It should be clean, well presented documents, not just cut and paste.

Stephen Glands: So that's rule number one. Rule number two. Yeah. Enough to show. Off your work, but not so much that you lose the reader's interest because they haven't got time to look through 45 10 to 15 pages is a rule of thumb, a good one. Third rule, don't try and cram too much on one page. If it's something that's worth [00:09:00] showing, show it off, have some impact.

Stephen Glands: Give it half a page, give it full page. Rule number four we are now, don't just flash an image up because it means nothing without saying what it is and what you did on it. I can get an image from a website and stick it on a page. I'm not, you know, I'm a recruitment consultant. I didn't design that building.

Stephen Glands: If you did work in that building, what did you do? Were you an assistant? Was it stage four? You know, what did you do? Did you use Revit on it? It doesn't need much content, because after all, in the portfolio, we're showing off the projects and the work samples, rather than talking about everything you've done in your career.

Stephen Glands: But it does need enough to tell us what the relevance of this is, and it needs to be shown off quite nicely. Under 10 megs, yes, Steve. Things get firewalled and blocked over 10 megs sometimes. Not always, but sometimes. So I think those, those are roughly speaking my, my rules. I love it. Okay, well, do you have so many rules?

Stephen Glands: 10 rules, good rules. Yeah,

Will Ridgway: good rules. I don't, [00:10:00] I agree with completely of all of them. One thing I might add is the the, the, the order in which you do the portfolio. A lot of people do can do it upside down. So for example, that earliest piece of work at the top, all the way down to the latest piece of work at the bottom, which is the wrong way to do it.

Will Ridgway: You should always. My rule of thumb is you should always put the most relevant piece of work at the top. Usually that's the most recent but yeah, generally the most eye catching piece because, as Stephen said, you want to grab the attention and the way to do that is by having the big project at the front and then So it encourages the reader to carry on reading through, but I'm not too much more to add on to that really.

Stephen Glands: It's a good point that, Will, if you don't mind me just jumping in here, because we do get asked the question, should I order my portfolio by typology? And obviously this is for people with a little bit more experience behind them. They should have a residential section, office section. There isn't a precise answer [00:11:00] to that, frankly speaking.

Stephen Glands: You can either put it in most recent project first, or you could split it up into the different typologies. If you do split it up into typologies, either look at what we all say is the most impressive, or the project you're most proud of, or the most recent project. of that typology and then repeats with the different typologies.

Stephen Glands: But the reason we're recruiting consultants to talk about typology so much is because the employers talk about typology so much. You know, you get a practice that only does residential and they only do residents in the UK, they need to To know that the applicants have an enthusiasm for residential and need to know that they understand the regulations, the policies, the planning system, space standards, there's tons of regularity stuff around Resi.

Stephen Glands: So of course they want to see that as a typology. If you start showing them, I don't know, some light industrial projects and a data center and a hospital, you'll have lost them before they get to the Resi stuff at the end. So I think having content, so here's my residential work, here's my office [00:12:00] work, at least then the reader can say, right, ah, they've got what I'm looking for.

Stephen Glands: Let me just skip to page six, maybe, you know, as an example. Well said. I Okay.

Tip 3: Organizing Your Job Search
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Stephen Glands: So the next point I had gentlemen is when you've got your job search, we talked about terms of content. We talked about CV and portfolios. Now in the past, I've done it. And I've been guilty of it myself of when you're sending your CVs, you literally you're in the moment.

Stephen Glands: Okay. Or you've spoken to a few people. You might've spoken to Steven grounds. It's an interesting opportunity. You might have applied to one or two places and you can be in danger of kind of forgetting, right? You can be in danger of forgetting when you've sent your CV and who you sent it to. And, and the danger is if you're not following, if you're not keeping track of all this stuff, then it's harder to follow up because you will forget.

Stephen Glands: So one of the suggestions I put for number three was to get organized. We [00:13:00] talked a little bit about what's in the CV portfolio. Now it's kind of like the plan of attack, as you were, or how to engage into it. And I always think that if you've got an Excel database or something like that, that you create just in terms of very simple stuff, when you send the CV, who it was to, email, the date, then it's really good because that means that you can Then in a week or so, follow up.

Stephen Glands: You can get feedback. You can cross things out and then you can hone in the search. I mean, it could be an Excel database. It could be Airtable. I've done a little template that I'll put a link to at the end of this where people can download a little template that I made. My thoughts was it's important to get organized.

Stephen Glands: What are your thoughts, gentlemen? Perhaps Steve or Will, you want to jump in on Jack?

Will Ridgway: Yeah. So yeah, organization, the best reason why organization and the planning is [00:14:00] important is that it allows you to be more efficient in your search. So you're not necessarily. So, for example, if you're a graduate and you know, you're applying to a lot, a lot of practices, you might accidentally overlap.

Will Ridgway: and you might send your CV back to the same practice again that you may have done a couple of months before. So it's important to have that database there so that you are aware of who you've sent your CV to and then more importantly follow up because it's quite, it's quite easy to send off a CV but it's easy to forget to follow up and you think oh, Did someone, did I ring so and so last week?

Will Ridgway: I can't remember, or forget entirely about the application. So always keep organized and then that way as well you can plan on, so for example, if you're targeting a specific area location, maybe you want to branch out, then you know which practices you've already gone through and then you can target a new set of practices and basically keep it all organized and it just improves your search so much more.[00:15:00]

Stephen Glands: Yeah, I agree. Steve, what do you, what do you think about this kind of idea? Well, put simply, it's a good idea. Yes, yay, amazing. Okay, good. All right. So we all agree on that. Okay.

Tip 4: Engaging with Employers
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Stephen Glands: Let's move on to the next point quickly. How to reach out and engage an employer. Okay. Oh, let me rephrase. I should say that.

Stephen Glands: And top tips, you need to reach out and engage your employers. So what is the most efficient way? So I'm going to talk about it specifically in terms of if you're a graduate part one or part two. I think the search should be broader. Now, we have an interesting discussion a little bit before the show, actually, about this point as well.

Stephen Glands: Because obviously, the further along you go in your career, the more experience you have, the more niche skill set you've got. I think You [00:16:00] have to think, you have to consider who you're engaging with and how your approach is more delicately. So top tip number four, let's rephrase what I've put there. What is the best way to reach out and engage an employer right now?

Stephen Glands: What do you think, Steve, Steve and Glenns? Oh, hello. Well, you made a good point. Yeah, it depends what level you operate at. I mean, it was a conversation I think you're referring to with graduates, people looking just for a job. They obviously want to know about your personality traits, they want to know about your academic credentials, your interests.

Stephen Glands: Yeah. They want to know why you're interested in them specifically. I think this is a key point. Employers don't just want to employ people because they need a job, they want to employ people because they're interested in the job with them specifically. So remember that with any application no matter what level you're at.

Stephen Glands: The more senior you get, it tends to be, you can end up [00:17:00] getting specialized in certain typologies, not always, but you can do it. And if you are, then you either need to focus on that typology particularly in a down market such as this one, or if your market is down, let's let's just say hotels, for example, you might think, well, how do I transfer that experience?

Stephen Glands: What should I be aiming for? I had a chat with a guy this week or last week. We are looking to transfer the hotel experience into luxury retirement living. Which is a fairly good sector at the moment because they're not losing their jobs, they're retired, they've got lots of money, there's big investment from the insurance companies.

Stephen Glands: So we're trying to transfer that experience over because we're saying hotel sector's down. So again, that would hone your search as to who you're trying to engage. It also hones how you present your materials, put your best foot forward. Yeah. And that can affect the format of your CV and your

Stephen Glands: samples actually as well. Okay, great. I like that. That I think [00:18:00] that's well said. So I've actually messed up point number five because it's a similar one. So

Jack Moran: we'll come back to reaching out before we do. And if I can, I want to jump in and just say something about the engaging employees there. So, you know, over the last couple of months, we'll, and I've been doing quite a lot of research into practices around the UK and definitely at forefront is a lot of their social media presence, you know, with.

Jack Moran: A lot of places going digital. A lot of their marketing comes down to their social media, what they would find, you know, quite attractive from a potential candidate would be someone who's engaging with them on Instagram posts or LinkedIn or Twitter. You know, a lot of practices will put that whole portfolio on their Instagram page because it's nice projects and they want to show it off.

Jack Moran: So if they're finding someone who's constantly engaging with them on their projects, or, you know, even like leaving comments. It's about something technical or something architectural. They're going to take a notice to it. And then the person in marketing might say, Oh, hold on. [00:19:00] This person has applied.

Jack Moran: We've got this person's CV sitting in the, in the other room. And it's like, Oh, well, let's go have a look at it. So I definitely think your presence on social media, you can really. Yeah, attention off, not all architecture practices, but those who have a strong presence on social media is just quite a handy way.

Jack Moran: I think I like the theme of what you're talking

Stephen Glands: about. I think in terms of engagement, if especially favoring your career, I suppose you should be following practices should be understanding projects. You should be engaged with the current market and basically follow reading journals. You should be aware of what's got planning.

Stephen Glands: And if you're interested in architecture practices, good to have a conversation with them. based upon, you know, especially when you go in for an interview about their upcoming projects. And that kind of brings us on to the next point about preparing for an interview. If you don't mind, very small point.

Stephen Glands: I'm not, I'm not meaning to tell the business here, but our job is to stay in touch with the market. So both are [00:20:00] the employers, our clients, the hiring people. They ask us about market trends and what they should be doing because we chat to the whole market, whether it be developers, investors, practices, you name it.

Stephen Glands: And equally, okay, that's fascinating. So if you're after an idea of where you should be aiming, you could call a criminal consultant because it's their job to know. Yeah. And I think it's important by that point, because we touched upon it last time. Now I was talking about. It's more of right now, it's a candidate driven it's a client driven market.

Stephen Glands: I kind of broke down what I thought, what definition was of a candidate market and the client market. But I do agree with you at that point, Steve I think if you're a graduate right now, it is good. You've got to really, unfortunately, you've got to go for it on your own. You've kind of got to gear up.

Stephen Glands: And again, that is a numbers game. Yeah, that is a numbers game. Well, I completely agree with where you're, where you're talking about of if you find yourself [00:21:00] five to 10 years into your career, you've been working on a practice, you know, you can be, it can be, you've seen things the way, the way the world that you're in.

Stephen Glands: Is in your own little bubble and you're used to working in that our practice practices ways. And it's quite hard to have an understanding of the architectural market. And that's where I agree with you of branching out in your network, speaking to colleagues. As well as speaking to friends within the profession is useful, but that's also quite interesting in our role, isn't it, when we speak to someone who's been working five to six years somewhere, and it's kind of offering ideas that they haven't considered yet because of, as you say, Steve.

Stephen Glands: The connections you built up over the years, seeing where other people have gone on from in similar positions and done really well. And we can impart that kind of knowledge. So jumping on from here just really quickly. So our LinkedIn definitely works because look at this, we've got one or two things.

Stephen Glands: So guys, someone really [00:22:00] likes what we're doing as someone anonymous. They say this is fantastic. So shout out to that Stephen Glantz. This is because it's your first impression, your first time on here. People are thinking it's fantastic. So we've got to get you as a guest more as well. We've got one or two other questions that are here.

Stephen Glands: I've got one or two statements and stuff. One says that offices Elizabeth's offices usually are unable to reply. An application, unless it's successful. I think that's partly due to right now. So many applications. I mean, a lot of practices do try, but this is what, if you are applying direct, if you are especially someone who is in the beginning of their search, if you're an architectural graduate, there's no harm in calling for feedback.

Stephen Glands: If you polite about it. You might get the, the feedback, just, you know, try to come across humble and understanding and be like, look, I know you're really busy. It would just be great to have one or two minutes feedback. And I think that approach can really help at a graduate level because most architectural [00:23:00] practices will want to help a graduate as well.

Stephen Glands: Okay. So let's bang on to the next point. And then we've got one or two more questions coming in.

Tip 5: Preparing for Interviews
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Stephen Glands: So we talked about preparing for an interview, so let's jump up on this because let's say now you've got an interview in this current climate. So traditionally, Steve, we, we have briefed many people in terms of a face to face interview.

Stephen Glands: Now we have the combination of could be masks to masks interview or more of what we're finding is the emergent interviews online. So I thought it would be good to talk about preparing for an interview. What I think is the first point, the first tip I would go around this point, the top 10 tips is when you're preparing for the interview, I would do research on your company.

Stephen Glands: So if you have an interview through a recruitment consultant or direct, once you've clinched that interview, I think you've got to go in terms of what Jack Brown was talking about and go on their social media. You've got to engage in it. You've got to go on their website. You've got to study that [00:24:00] company, try to find out who you're interviewing with, and then do a little bit of information.

Stephen Glands: Do a little bit of background work on that. If the recruitment consultant that you're working with has worked with that company for years, hopefully a good recruitment consultant will brief you up on for that interview Steven, you're really good at this in particular, of giving a fantastic. Summary of what's happening.

Stephen Glands: If you're going direct or you're a graduate, you need to make sure that you have a lay of the land. If they've just won permission for a planning proposal and a large scale residential scheme, as Jack Moran says, if you go into the interview and you comment about that scheme, That's going to be a really good icebreaker and they're going to think you're really engaged.

Stephen Glands: And you can talk about that's the kind of work that you want to go into. But Steve, what's your thoughts right now in terms of preparing for an interview? Let's pretend it's an online interview or more about you've just got the confirmation you've got an interview. What's your first step? [00:25:00] Well, I think you've summed it up really well.

Stephen Glands: So you've covered a lot there. It goes back to our point that Employers want to employ people that are genuinely interested in their company. Why? Because they'll be more enthusiastic. Enthusiastic people deliver better work. Enthusiastic people come across better to that practice's clients.

Stephen Glands: Enthusiastic people get on better with their colleagues. Yeah. People that are genuinely interested in the company will stay for longer. They can evolve with the company. They're worth more to the company. So you have to do your research. You have to be genuine. You have to. Be ready for the really basic bog standard question.

Stephen Glands: Why are you interested in working for us? Okay. Now you're not expected to know everything about the company. You've never worked there. You might not know anyone there. So all you need to be prepared to say is, look, what I know is this. And that's what interests me because this is what I've done. And this is what I'd like to do next.

Stephen Glands: And I wondered if that's a possibility with you guys, because I really like your work. [00:26:00] And then you're opening then up to talk. And I think, yes, it's an interview, and you're meant to be explaining yourself, but it's great to get your interviewer talking as well, because then you bond. And this is online, this is in person, whatever.

Stephen Glands: So yeah, basically echo all of your points, but make that connection between you, your aspirations, what you've done. And the company, the job, and the person that you're engaging with. Brilliant. Amazing. We've had quite a few more stuff come in from LinkedIn, so it's definitely awesome. It works. One in particular I really quite enjoy is Hello.

Stephen Glands: Hello. Hi. Hello. Hello. How are you? Yeah, so we've definitely got a few thoughts and sentiments coming through as well. Let's just jump ahead with one or two more of these and then maybe we can go through a few questions and we can

Jack Moran: just jump in to Stephen one of what Glanzu was just talking about in the interview, the idea of getting the interviewer talking as well.

Jack Moran: I mean, especially for [00:27:00] graduates, they probably see an interview as, you know, like almost going up against the wall and just having to defend yourself for every corner. I think a lot of people overthink the process of an interview and see it as more of a, like a presentation where you have to show.

Jack Moran: everything that you're capable of. Whereas what I like Lanzi saying is if you actually take the time to speak to the person interviewing you, you'll be able to find out a lot more about the company, but you should have done the research beforehand. So you should know all that. But the idea of being able to get to talk to them and talk about the work that they've done and the work that you've done and where you'd like to take that forward.

Jack Moran: Engaging the interviewer is going to sell yourself a lot more. then just saying, Oh, here on page one of my portfolio, I done this and page two, I done that. And yes, I worked at this place.

Stephen Glands: Exactly.

Jack Moran: The people, when, when it sounds like you're reading off a script, even if you're not reading off a script, people will pick that up from a mile away because your voice just becomes, yeah, it's almost monotonous, like Glancy said.

Jack Moran: So definitely. When you're going into the [00:28:00] interview, practice it, practice, you know, take your, take your parents, take your friends the night before, just have a practice run. So when you go in there, you're confident and you can ask questions. They like it when you ask questions to get to know more about them and how you would be a fit into that practice.

Jack Moran: I hear you. I, I love,

Stephen Glands: the more you can relax and be yourself and the more you can relax and be yourself, the more likely you are to get the job. Exactly. I was, I was just, I was just giggling because now the world has. And I've rumbled our affectionate name on our team for you, Steve, as Glanzy. Mr. Stephen Glanz Jafferen.

Stephen Glands: That's his name. Glanzy is your name. He's really going to pick me up on that one. I absolutely am, because I know it. I like to tease you. I've had this name for many, many, many years and I'm not precious anyway, so that's fine. We love you. We love you, Steve and Glancy. I think they were really good points there, Jack.

Stephen Glands: I think you hit the nail on the head. An interview is [00:29:00] very much a conversation. Treat the interview with respect. You, you, you're, you're humbled that they want to invite you for an interview, but it's an open conversation, isn't it? You're going to. Go in there and have a conversation. It's not an interrogation, as you say, whereas I think that what I've noticed is a lot of graduates, especially almost visualize it as like an interrogation.

Stephen Glands: Like, who are you? Why are you here? Why shouldn't I? And look, there's very few people that there's very few companies that do that. And you're right. It's actually a frank conversation. And what you want to do is talk about your passions. You're grateful for the opportunity by studying the company. and, and learning and the projects and kind of talking about why you're interested in there and what you've done and what skill sets you have to offer.

Stephen Glands: Hopefully, if they could visit, you could visit one of the projects that maybe the director who's interviewing you led. Oh, wow. Now there's an opportunity. Go and do it. Oh, I went to that building. I love this. How did you find, how did you design that facade? It looks really interesting, you know, That put you ahead of the [00:30:00] rest of the pack for a long way.

Stephen Glands: Yeah, I agree. I think that makes complete sense. And so any, for anyone here, just while we're going through the questions, I'm Stephen Drew. We've got Will Ridgway, Stephen Grant, Jack Moran. We're all on the architecture team at McDonald and Company. So you can get in contact with us on LinkedIn. You can also get in touch with us on McDonald and Company and as part of the Architecture Social.

Stephen Glands: So we, we, okay, wow, Will, I think I've done a terrible job of putting these points on of your of your top 10. I've butchered them.

Engaging in Online Interviews
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Stephen Glands: I kind of put number seven as be engaging in the interview, which I kind of feel was what we were talking about right now of what we've been engaging is, is having dialect, having conversation, keeping things moving, keeping, and I think maybe what we can talk about in this part is that, look, if you're in an online interview right now as well, it's really important.

Stephen Glands: I think to rehearse. That's because you're not physically there. So I think that to be engaging on a [00:31:00] digital in a digital format is the new question, right? Because how many I've advised a lot of architectural professionals going in into an interview, how to put their CV. and portfolio, how to present their portfolio physically going through it.

Stephen Glands: But it's actually a different art form online, especially in video interviews.

Technical Challenges in Digital Interviews
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Stephen Glands: You've got echoes and your sound, your internet's going to be perfect. You've got to be in a quiet room like you are now, Steven, isn't it? Whereas I know that you have a fantastic family. You love your kids, but you can't, you in your interview, you need to make.

Stephen Glands: You need to make actually the physical environment, you've got to make the light shine on you so that you can be engaging. You can have all the most amazing points in the world, Steve. You can have gone to my architectural practice and talked about the site, but if the internet is not strong enough, or there's noise in the background, And they, oh, they can't [00:32:00] hear you because the microphone's not good enough.

Stephen Glands: I think that actually will adversely affect your interview. It does. It's happened on a few interviews that I've organized for people. No one's fault necessarily. And it, the interviewers will actually be a little bit understanding, compassionate. But the fact of the matter is, if there weren't any issues with sound or image, there would have been a better conversation had.

Stephen Glands: Yeah. And you want to have a good conversation. You're talking about the light, Steve. I think I need makeup on, on the top here.

Stephen Glands: Well, you, you've got to leave a sign. I've got to leave a sign. But no, you're, you're absolutely right. I mean, I've talked to people, and I'm not Mr. Tech, as you well know. But you, you have to get used to sharing your work on a screen. You have to know the right point to be able to bring that into the conversation.

Stephen Glands: A monologue in person is bad, a monologue online is even worse. So absolutely, [00:33:00] don't just present blindly. Use your interviewer to guide you. Well, I, I've got some ideas. And I've got that. What would you like to see? What are you interested in? Let the interviewer guide you. I said it's even more important online, but yeah, that's right.

Stephen Glands: Be prepared. Do dry runs. Check your tech. Get it quiet. If my kids came in here, they'd just try it or do something really funny or both. So yeah, we should, yeah, we have to have your quiet, your quiet zone for your interview. We're even like now is your microphone right now. Is because you stopped talking, I don't hear feedback, but the fact is, if you, it's all these little things.

Stephen Glands: So this morning we always do as part of the architecture team, we have a meeting in the morning and because we know each other for so many years, and we kind of don't mind if we talk over each other a little bit because we're all friends here. But it's like knowing your medium, because actually if it was a phone interview, Steve.

Stephen Glands: You know what it's like, especially in the phone conference, you get massive lag, right? And, and remember when we used to do the zooms in the morning, it's fine if everyone's on [00:34:00] headphones, but if not, it can be a problem. And we've also had it sometimes, and we, I remember we arranged an interview for one of our clients, Steve, and the actual interviewer.

Stephen Glands: His connection was faulty, so there was no video of the interviewer speaking to the interviewee. So you can have these obstacles thrown at you, and I think that we touched upon it briefly in a few of our other videos. And if you want to go into any of these points in more detail, we've done kind of an hour long version of every point here.

Stephen Glands: But I just think that owning the tech helps because it's subliminally Either I think compliments you get in the job right now or deters it. So you could, you, what you don't want it to be is to go like, I interviewed Steven Granz. I think he was fantastic, but the call was a bit difficult. I couldn't hear some of the words we said.

Stephen Glands: Maybe we'll get him in for a second interview because if something like that happens, you're losing the momentum. And that's, that's why I went. So [00:35:00] that's why when we were always in recruitment now, I think that's In terms of briefing someone for an interview, I always talk about the tech as well. I don't think you can leave it till five minutes before especially if it's the difference between you getting the job right now or not.

Stephen Glands: We've got a few more comments coming in, but I think, wow, so we've got some nice debates, some nice talk going on here. We, we've got a few talk, we've got one or two questions. One in particular talks about. Salaries. I'm not going to go into that now, Kiana, but what I will say is that we have done, I have done a topic on the architectural social.

Stephen Glands: You can check out our YouTube channel. And I think one of the hour long sessions that me, Jack and Will did is talk about salaries, how to kind of go about that as well as that though. I think if you're working with a good recruitment consultant, we can normally be. You know, and you're a bit further in your career, we can kind of gauge you along the way, but definitely check [00:36:00] out that video that I talk about that.

Stephen Glands: And so jumping on again, you can see all our names here. If you just joined us on LinkedIn, hello we've got down there, Stephen Glantz, Will Ridgway. Checking around. There you go. Okay. Hey, the next one. So, so let's say hypothetically, you've done your research. Okay. Well, you've, you've got your CV and portfolio.

Stephen Glands: You've got your Excel graph and you're, you're following all the stuff down there and you've engaged with employers. You've secured the interview. You've done your research and you've basically, you've made sure that you've gone in an interview with Google your room. You've done your interview.

Importance of Feedback Post-Interview
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Stephen Glands: Now you need to follow up and get feedback.

Stephen Glands: Part of our role is always trying to get good feedback. It can be very, very difficult. If you're a graduate in particular, there's going to be a lot of competition is always a bit more difficult. If you don't have a direct relationship with the directors, which is one advantage of recruitment, a good recruitment consultant would have is that because we've known people for years, we can kind [00:37:00] of speak to them and say, Hey, how did it go with Helen's interview, how did it go with Tom's interview and kind of get that feedback.

Stephen Glands: If you're a graduate now, you've got to remember that there's probably a few people they've seen. So I would suggest that it is always good to follow up and get feedback, maybe give it a few days or try it in the interview to always ask when they're going to be making a decision. So then, and then mentally remember that date.

Stephen Glands: And then I would try, I would follow up. And the sales spreadsheets team. Yes. Yes. Good idea. Excel spreadsheet is paying off in dividends already. So you, you, you do that. And the point is, I think in life, you have to ask, you have to follow things up, whether it's working with the recruitment consultant or whether it is working, you know, the trace and the company that you've had an interview with is it's, it's, it's about doing it in a nice way, but also actually doing it going high.

Stephen Glands: How's it [00:38:00] gone so far? I had a fantastic interview before. I'm calling to see if there's any update. And as well as that, in your job search, if you have updates on your side, so say now another company has made you an offer and you want to find out news from the other company, it's always good to inform the recruitment consultant or inform the company.

Stephen Glands: So you can go, look, I appreciate you coming back to me on Thursday. Just so you know, I've got an offer. It's Tuesday. That's fine. I can wait till it's Thursday, but I need to make a decision. So there are a few of my random thoughts. The point is, it is good to get feedback. It's absolutely fine. And I think it's very important.

Stephen Glands: Mr. Glanz Mr. Stephen Glanz, what's your thoughts on following up and getting feedback? It's something we all want for a very good reason, you know. We're all trying to do the best that we can. Whether you're applying for a job or you're managing the process as an agent you won't always get it. Is the sad thing, and that comes down to time quite a [00:39:00] lot.

Stephen Glands: As someone was pointing out earlier on, you know, companies only come back to you if they're interested. There's not much anyone can do to affect that other than what Steve's saying. Call up, you know, ask in a nice way, try and get the feedback. One, one point that was going on in my head is that years ago, I went for my first job in recruitment, and I actually went through one of my brother's friends.

Stephen Glands: who was himself a recruitment song and he gave me some feedback for the interview. Now, I ended up getting the job at Hayes Dry, but he gave me some fairly brutal feedback and I was a bit taken aback. I was like, ooh, okay. Ooh, didn't like that much. He was right though. He was absolutely right about what he said and I've never forgotten it.

Stephen Glands: And all I'd say is probably direct feedback is more useful than having something dressed up, watered down, you know. So I think if you ever get feedback that sounds a bit harsh from an employer or a criminal consultant, it is only one opinion, remember that, and you can't use it all [00:40:00] the time. However, take it on board as well.

Stephen Glands: Because sometimes the truth can hurt a little bit, but then you realize, well, I can use this. This is great. Actually, that's actually useful. I'm going to try and remember that, and I've been through it myself. I agree. All right, good. Good forwards there. So let's, let's, let's jump ahead with the next Jack, are you happy to jump ahead to the next point?

Stephen Glands: Yeah, I'm happy. All right, gentlemen.

Considering Job Offers Seriously
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Stephen Glands: Okay, I've reworded this slightly, because we had this down as, get an offer right now, say yes. And that was the point. There's a question mark there though. Yeah, I've changed it, because I was like, is it too much? But there we go. Let me leave me retrained. I can make that.

Stephen Glands: Say yes. I think you should always want to go to the job you want to, so maybe, I don't know if it should be say yes, but point is right now, I do think that we are in basically coronavirus recession, right? I'm not going to remind anyone of the news. Okay, let's, let's rephrase it. Does it say yes? I [00:41:00] think take any offer seriously, take it very seriously.

Stephen Glands: You do not want to be flippant with an offer right now. That's what I would say. As in, let's pretend you want to work for, you've always set your goal in fosters and partners, and fosters and partners are full or they're unable to hire. There is definitely worth right now considering options that you might normally not have considered or casting them a bit further ahead.

Stephen Glands: Speak with people about. So if it's a recruitment consultant, speak with people about where you want to go, the skills you want to learn. And I think with practices, maybe not judge them just purely on their website or a few other things. I'm not purely on accolades. I would say when you've got an offer that I should evaluate what you can get from it.

Stephen Glands: and take it seriously. So that's why I still think yes should be a question mark. Let's change it. Let's put it back. Get an offer, say yes. [00:42:00] Well, I think you need to take it seriously. It's definitely a question mark. It depends on your circumstances. If you're employed, that's one thing. If you're unemployed, that's another thing.

Stephen Glands: Yeah, there's lots of things to consider. You've got to be happy. I think if And if something's just not going to work, then you need to be honest with yourself and the employer that it isn't going to work. You know, maybe it's just too far to travel in, in, you know, presuming we're commuting at some point in the next, next year or so.

Stephen Glands: Maybe you've got kids and they can't offer you the flexibility you need. You know, it's more than just the money and the job. It's about lifestyle. It's about well being. And I know these are sort of words that are getting bounded around, but they do mean something. And I think the coronavirus has really brought it home how much they mean to people.

Stephen Glands: Yeah. Yeah. So I think I agree. Be open minded, Stephen, absolutely. The money thing. Yeah. Again, be open minded. I mean, my mantra at the moment is if you can get If you need another job and you can get the same money you were on in your last job, [00:43:00] that's a success. If you get an increase, brilliant. If you get a small decrease, still consider it.

Stephen Glands: If it's too big a decrease, then you probably can't trust that employer unless you'd be hiring someone else because it's a more junior job. So yeah, always consider it, but absolutely if it isn't right, whatever reason, then don't take it. I agree. I think that's really good. So it's taken off as seriously.

Stephen Glands: I think being a bit more open minded right now is useful, especially as you say, Stephen, if you are unemployed, I would be very open minded. I know we all want to work for the dream architectural practice. So that's what I did. You know, I had very well, you, well, you know me now, so you, you, you'll giggle, but you know, I would have killed to work at Heatherwick studio.

Stephen Glands: I absolutely love Heatherwick studio. I was just the kind of person that would work in Thomas Heatherwick. I actually found that I preferred commercial architecture practices, but the point is at the time, can you imagine how hard it is? to get into a practice like Heatherwick is going to be a lot of [00:44:00] competition.

Stephen Glands: So what I'm saying is imagine if I was just fixated on Heatherwick, I never would have gone to EPR architects. I never would have realized that I actually really like working in a commercial architectural practice where things are slightly a little bit different, but it's equally quite interesting and good architecture.

Stephen Glands: And actually working at EPR Architects has got me to here now. And it's that whole weird and wonderful journey if you were fixated on one idea. So if you were fixated on just working on maybe more design orientated practices that you are familiar with against an architectural practice, which is less famous, but actually can offer you a lot of skill sets and abilities, then, you know, Then you're missing out.

Stephen Glands: Or a better quality of life, potentially. Yes, sorry Steve, your internet cut off a bit for me, but I think you said like a better life or what it offers you. Quality of life, yeah. Yeah, amazing. All right, and so the next point, remember, so we've got it down here.

Building and Leveraging Your Network
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Stephen Glands: is build your network to do well for yourself and to protect your future.

Stephen Glands: So, [00:45:00] Will, you wrote that. What does that mean, my friend? Can you explain?

Will Ridgway: Oh, no, it was just words. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, so I think once you're, once you're in a job, even before You're in a job. It's always important to to get to know other people in the industry, whether that's you know, if you're a graduate, maybe other graduates but as well as employers connecting them on LinkedIn through the architecture social or through actual face to face contact, which is unlikely at the moment, but that's what we're trying to do.

Will Ridgway: That's what you do in the old days. And when I say the old days, I mean last year. But the reason why it's important is that it helps you in the job that you're in at the moment because you're you know, you, you might hear about. You might be able to learn new skills through connections but also what I mean by protect your future.

Will Ridgway: It helps you, you know, if the practice you're at the moment, you know, something's not doing well or perhaps you need to move on, you have other connections that makes your job hunt a lot [00:46:00] easier. If you know people in the industry already, you don't have to go on to job sites. You don't have to start loading up a list.

Will Ridgway: To say, right, I need to target this practice, this practice. You might already know Dave from down the road, who's a director at another studio. And you'd be like, I'd love to work there. And you already have that interpersonal relationship with them. And that's going to benefit you in the long run. So that's what I mean by that, really.

Stephen Glands: Right, I love it. While you were talking there, I've been typing something. Because if you remember, gentlemen, so our team, McDonald Company, our slogan. is hashtag be connected, which at first I was like, okay, it's not a hashtag. But if you think about what was that is about, right? Be connected. I actually do like the saying, because the point of what you're saying, well, is if you are connected, then great, you're going to make more opportunities for yourself.

Stephen Glands: And remember, we were talking about when I was talking about the other week or two about recruitment consultants, you should be there. You should think about who you want to work with. [00:47:00] Okay. Should be expanding your network with quality contracts contacts. You should be going out to networking events.

Stephen Glands: Of course, you should be engaging into the community. You should be collaborating with architects. And when you work with a recruitment consultant, think about who they are, think about opportunities. And maybe if it's not a role right now, what I did say is, remember, I've spoken sometimes to people for two to three years and I've gone, look, I'm going to write opportunity right now.

Stephen Glands: When something pops up along what you're interested in, I'll get in touch and I'll let you know. And I think that's what it's all about. So building that network and selecting who you want, I'm going to put in a slogan, hashtag, how do I do a hashtag? Hashtag be connected. So I kind of do think it's a point on that.

Stephen Glands: And that's where actually what I enjoy in the job. I enjoy just constantly meeting architectural practices. Okay. It's a bit more difficult to go to their offices right now, but that is the joy of our job going to an architectural practice and working out what they are, their company culture. And then when we go out there in the [00:48:00] weird and wonderful world of architectural recruitment, and when we speak to someone and we go, do you know what?

Stephen Glands: I think you'd be really good for this company culture. And I think that's the magic and that comes from over time building quality connections. And I think, you know, if you're in architectural practice right now, or even if you're leaving, remember, you're going to, you should leave always on good terms.

Stephen Glands: You should always keep them connections and like what Will said, protecting your future. Always do a stellar job. Always leave on good terms. Always try to get a reference. Steve, we know about lending employment on good notes. It always helps in terms of moving to your next job. Hugely. Just at a personal level, why would you want to let people down?

Stephen Glands: I mean, if you did let people down, they're your colleagues or your friends, and then you've got your clients. who might be clients of the future practice. You've got your own considerations relationships, references. Yeah. I mean, yeah, always, always leave on good terms, always build bridges, not boundaries really, isn't it?

Stephen Glands: And it's not just within architecture, you know, engineers, urban [00:49:00] designers. People in technology outside of our industry, I'm going to practice once and the one of the owners said, well, I never go to these architecture events. Why would I want to talk about architects? I already know a lot of architects.

Stephen Glands: I need to go to these other events and speak to software engineers or I don't know, robotic specialists or urban farmers, or, you know, it is like, I don't need to know any more about that at my, My stage. That's a good point. You know, talk to people all over the place and then find relevance for that in your, in your life and your career.

Stephen Glands: I love it. I think, I think that makes complete sense for me. I, I think there's some really good things there. I'm just gonna do a little shout out to one or two things. I like this quite message from bsh. I think you'll enjoy this actually, guys. Afternoon, all great advice from the panel. I run an architectural start in Manchester, small independent practice.

Stephen Glands: Happy to connect with a young graduates. We're a broad range of experience. Hashtag be connected. Yeah. Good on you. As they go, any artificial graduates get [00:50:00] in touch. That's what it's all about. Hey, I love that. That's the whole point of the business. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's quite interesting, isn't it?

Stephen Glands: That even though it's difficult times. Some awesome new ideas start up from it. I mean, hey, being on furlough as well. Absolutely love what I do in terms of McDonald company. And me going a bit bored on furlough is why we got the architectural social. And worth plugging that in briefly. So let's talk about the architectural social.

Stephen Glands: If you haven't joined already. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I've got, there we go. You can request to join the community of over 2000 people, 2000 architects. Ignore what Stephen Grant's friend said. You do want to connect with other architects in the industry and definitely collaborate. It's a really good place.

Stephen Glands: We post architectural jobs there from what we do at McDonald and company, but you've got some amazing graduates. You've got some really interesting conversation going. We've got a book club at the moment, which yesterday there was, I think we're on chapter three of a particular book. [00:51:00] I'm not the best at reading books, but I do like going along because I think it's quite good.

Stephen Glands: fun and how we have a little chat on the end of it. As well as that, there's some really cool and interesting stuff. So as well, so the architectural social is awesome. Let's talk about where you can find us all. So again, so I'm Stephen Drew, we go WorldWedge way, we go StephenGlanz. and Jack Moran. We are the architecture team at McDonald and Company.

The Value of Recruitment Consultants
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Stephen Glands: Let's talk briefly about McDonald and Company. Awesome recruitment company. So recruitment consultancy, I should say. So my understanding, I should have a good understanding. I've worked here for three years. It's been a good three years. McDonald and Company has been around since 1994. We're the preferred recruitment consultancy for the RACS, which is the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors, which means that we.

Stephen Glands: Recruit across the hub, the broad spectrum from real estate, surveyors, planning, architecture, and as for architecture, as well as we have offices around the globe. So in my opinion, we cover everything across the real estate, [00:52:00] everything from investments, everything from funding. Everything from technical services, everything from Jack Moran, working with amazing office managers and architects.

Stephen Glands: We, we literally, we have done the whole shebang, which means that we do get a nice bird's eye picture, especially right now during difficult times of the construction sector. And in terms of what we do is we work on the architectural roles, which also I think we've had a lot of success, Steve. Let's talk briefly a little bit about you've, you've helped with historically client side positions as well, architects transitioning into in house architectural roles, and you've, you've done client side positions.

Stephen Glands: Do you want to kind of give me a little, maybe the audience, because this is the first time on you, a little bit about your background, Steve, in terms of recruitment, or what you do with us? Sure Okay. So, I've been doing it a long time. I progressed in relatively recent history, I suppose the last sort of, I don't know, [00:53:00] five, seven years into more senior appointments so directors, anything we sort of associate upwards in practice, and then also just that client side roles or roles outside of practice.

Stephen Glands: So I did some work with property consultancies, I worked with developers some public sector bodies already. less of that. A little bit of construction, working with some modular firms, so all sorts. And yeah, the reason I have worked for this company for so long, I suppose, is a few things. I do like the people.

Stephen Glands: People got their head screwed on. But they're not overly formal. So it's a friendly place, yet professional. It's not corporate. I like the network. Like you said, we've got a bird's eye view on things. I like the fact that our colleagues can tell us where the money's being moved around in terms of investment, what the developer's doing, which ones are active which sectors and typologies therefore are active, which regions are active.

Stephen Glands: I find it interesting and is useful. for me, for our clients and for our job seekers. And that's, [00:54:00] that's my story. And look, I, I think that's, what's amazing about all of us here is that actually in terms of what I enjoy about what we do is we all kind of come from. different backgrounds, different veins with a common goal.

Stephen Glands: The idea is actually what I enjoy about recruitment is again, when the, cause the process I find can be at times a bit difficult. And if you, when you, for, when you find someone and you identify some skillset, And you listen to what they're looking for or where they're in the career and you actually make a positive difference.

Stephen Glands: That is actually quite fun. Of course, there's a lot that goes on in the background. I really do enjoy it, but I think Steve as well, I've learned especially an awful lot from yourself since joining the McDonald and company architecture team. So Oh, hang on. I've got a sound effect here. So Steven, let me see if you can hear this.

Stephen Glands: [00:55:00] This is for you. Can you hear that? Oh, Stephen. Thank you so much. There's a red head in front of the audience here. No, thank you, Stephen. I've learned a lot from you. I enjoy working with all you guys. It's good. You have So many different attributes that I do not have in terms of your skill set and where you go about things with this, you know I would never have come up with anything like this, which is really useful for everybody.

Stephen Glands: So, yeah. Yeah. And, and, and for me as well, especially with Will and Jack, cause what's been great. So Jack's still always on the architecture team. Jack's actually branching out to do a little bit of planning as well. Because I think he's as a man of many talents, Jack, you might be doing a bit of planning, but you you're always one of the architecture boys, right?

Stephen Glands: So I think that's great. Okay, that you on this team, we do multiple roles for a company. We all work together multiple roles. And well, I think a big testament that both [00:56:00] you and Actually, this goes to Stephen Grant, but I want to highlight to Will Ridgeway as well. What I think is really important and what I take away from this, yes, it's handy that I worked in architectural practice.

Stephen Glands: And on the team, we have the fact that I've worked in an architectural practice. But, it's not the be all and end all with recruitment. I did think that was a big thing. I'd be like, guys, did you really? Did you really, did you, have you done the late nights in industry and look, it does help, but it's not the be all and end all and what I've learned from you guys will as well.

Stephen Glands: And Steve, actually, it's about understanding architecture, listening to people, kind of working out what a problem is, working out where they're at and trying to find solutions, try to find the right fit. It's not about just banging anyone into a role because that always, as we know, and we have seen, and we've heard a million times, and I'm sure it's all happened to all of us early in our career, it's not the right thing because it always goes wrong and then the person leaves the job, they're not happy.

Stephen Glands: So it's about doing things the right [00:57:00] way, and that's what we're all about. So thank you very much on that note for that. That's why I'm very happy. Thank you, Will. Okay, I've got to stop doing the clap effect. I've got one or two other effects here as well. I've got I'll tell you what other effect I've got.

Stephen Glands: Look, we're running out of time soon, guys.

Conclusion and Future Plans
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Stephen Glands: So we got it. So that, so there we go. That's look, oh, it's 59 minutes. So this is the lunch break. This is the lunch break. We've got 40 seconds. I think we've done a nice little swan entry. We'll see one or two comments. We'll see if we can get it all in. Sincere thanks for all four of you.

Stephen Glands: It's very insightful. Great. I think what we're going to do, we're going to look at doing a little lunchtime special. And we're going to look at mixing up the formula. I think I've quite enjoyed doing this to a lunchtime. Maybe what we can do is let's offer value. Doing a bit of a crazy time and between this and next week, let's have a think about what industry trends we see, gentlemen, what, what value we can offer architectural [00:58:00] practices, as well as job seekers right now, talk about any new roles we have.

Stephen Glands: Let's do the architecture show. So that's been bang on one hour and great timing. Clockwatcher. No problem, Pia. That's what we do. Thanks, Stephen. Very interesting. So thanks. Well, thanks to us all. There you go. The two Stephens and Will Ridgeway, Jack Moran. We've got many thank yous. I've really enjoyed doing this.

Stephen Glands: We will post one next week. You can watch the replay. On YouTube. I will post it later and let's, all me, let's see each other next week. Should we do it guys? Yeah. 1245. Let's do it. Love it. Thank you so much everyone. We are going to sign off now. I'm gonna end the stream. Steve, stay in the group 'cause we doesn't mean that it broadcast and Jack Moran don't go anywhere as well.

Stephen Glands: And everyone, we will see you next week. Thank you. Next everyone. Thank you. Bye [00:59:00] bye.